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Conference 7.286::digital

Title:The Digital way of working
Moderator:QUARK::LIONELON
Created:Fri Feb 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5321
Total number of notes:139771

3337.0. "MCS engineers or Contractors??" by SWAM1::KAWA_MI () Tue Aug 16 1994 14:05

    
    
      Could anyone shed some light on a rumor about Digital replacing
    MCS engineers, with contractors? This has surfaced more than once
    lately. If anyone has any information it would be greatly appreciated.
    
    
                                         Thanks.
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3337.1KAOFS::B_VANVALKENBTue Aug 16 1994 14:1420
    outside contractors have been used extensively in Australia
    and I was told by Ron Larkin that he would look at using them in Canada
    when ever it made sense to do so. (ex not enough work to support a tech
    full time..his example) And I believe this has already been implemented
    in some area on the east cost.
    
    Digital routinely uses temps when there is a large move or upgrade 
    scheduled that can't be handled through the normal process.
    
    Combine the above with the fact that Digital has now authorized some
    OEMs to provide warranty service and things do not look good for
    the field.
    
    
    IMO
    
    Brian V
    
    
     
3337.2More rumour......MSDOA::SCRIVENTue Aug 16 1994 14:4512
    More rumour here.....
    
    In conversations on an MCS Alignment Team, it has been stated that MCS 
    will be "outsourcing" all site audit transactions and possibly 
    installations.
    
    Whether this was specific to a district/region I'm unaware, but the
    implications were US wide....
    
    Again...rumour ...  no facts......
    
    Toodles.....JP
3337.3SWAM2::SCHMAUDER_PATue Aug 16 1994 14:4614
    Hi Mike....
    
    We have a contractor worker here in Las Vegas.  At a meeting with the
    DM the field was given the impression that we would see alot more
    contractors and less DEC employees.  The question was asked if a TFSO
    came would the contractor be the first to go??? The answer was NO!  The
    employee would be let go. It's the wave of the future...think about it
    - no benefits, no package when the work load decreases, get them for
    less.  Of course there is no loyalty on the contractors part but then
    DEC isn't looking for loyalty anymore - just reduced costs. I don't
    mean to say the contractor won't do a good job - but like the one we
    have here said - if he finds something permitant he's out of here!
    
    Pat
3337.4see note 3315.JOBURG::HARRISTue Aug 16 1994 15:077
    SEE NOTE 3315. The very reason that I placed 3315 was that down we will
    be using contracters in the <VERY> near future and my fear is that
    there is no/little requirement for minimum standard laid down by
    Digital. It is only a case of "Reduce costs." It's great if we could
    reduce costs and still maintain excellent service levels. If we can't
    manage the account with excellence then the end user is just going to
    go straight to another maintenance company anyway. Regards Ivan.
3337.5Arrrrg! This brings back horrible ...ODIXIE::SEDVM2::COLEParadigm: A 50 cent word downsized 60%Tue Aug 16 1994 16:359
	... memories of my time in the USAF working on a time-critical project
on an original PDP-8 (this was '70-'72). The base awarded a new contract for
DEC maintenance to some garage shop several states away (low-balled DEC's bid),
and set someone up in an apartment near the base.  First visit, I had to show him
how to turn ON the machine, and boot it! Things didn't get much better during
the year-long contract!

	Frank Scoblick, if you read here, you'll remember this episode, since
you were the DEC FE up to then!
3337.6IMOTRLIAN::GORDONTue Aug 16 1994 16:4112
    re: .5
    
    > didn't get much better during the year-long contract!
    
    I'd say they should have gotten a better contract negoiator for
    the base....any contract that locks you into something you don't want
    without a clause that allows you to break it if service isn't what
    you are paying for is my kinda contract...there are companies that
    live on tis kinda stuff...BUT THEY DON'T even bid where the
    specs/contracts their bidding on have correct "escape" clauses cause
    they know they'll end up losing money...
    
3337.7and when the work load increases?LJSRV2::DANIELSMark Daniels DTN:226-2094Tue Aug 16 1994 18:2618
   | It's the wave of the future...think about it
   | - no benefits, no package when the work load decreases, get them for
   | less.  

	.. true, but when the work load increases - it costs more.
	
	Contractors get paid by the hour. So if we only look at costs,
	then the normal 50hr work week (for some it may be more) of a 
    	salaried Digital engineer costs less than the hourly billing
        rate of a contractor (including the benefits).
    	
    	Does this make sense in the MCS case?
    
    Mark




3337.8contractor?? we got'm 2DCOFS::ALSTONTue Aug 16 1994 18:5840
    We also have contractors working with us in Washington, DC. District.
    They primarly cover PC's but we have one running VAX calls. She
    just happens to be an X-DEC Engineer. 
    
    So...
    Digital will give you 4 - 16 weeks of "wam-bam-thankyoumam". And if
    you don't carry on like an ex-postal worker, they may hire you back.
    Yes you, no Dec-wrek, no medical, no standby, no OT and no "real" 
    badge...
    
    I've heard one person tell there manager they've completed the
    US Postal Manager work reduction force program. 
    
    They've got their uniform,
    They've got their vest. All they need is that friday afternoon 
    message and they know where to buy bullets.
    
    Me, 
    I don't worry about things I can't control.
    I do my job.. (take a call, close a call)
    Put in my hours (8-24)
    Put in my days (5-7)
    do my paperwork
    go home........
    and will continue to do my job until they
    TFSO me. If I worried about losing my job
    I couldn't do my job, so, I will loose my
    job because I didn't do my job worrying
    about losing my job.......
    
    My thought about work
    Broke,fix,next call
           or
    Do you want fries with that order???
    
    By any means necessary!!!!!
    my kids will be fed,clothed and housed.....
    
    
         BATMAN
3337.9SWAM2::SCHMAUDER_PATue Aug 16 1994 19:1012
    Mark,
    
    I don't think that the contractor is making 1/2 the $'s of what some of
    our engrs are making...plus when the work load decreases - he is off
    the payroll until called again.  As far as quality - the market is
    filled with engr type people who have been let go not only from us but
    other computer companies.  The contractor we have here is really good
    and had only to learn the paperwork type things.  
    
    It would be nice to offer a TFSO engr the option to return as a
    contractor.  Of course that would mean a decrease in pay but until you
    could find something else it could be an option. 
3337.10DABEAN::REAUMEmy 2 vices - GTS and coastersTue Aug 16 1994 21:5154
    
    
     There's a few misconceptions here!
    
    	1) Contractors making 1/2 of an MCS engineers salary is 
    	not entirely true. Keep in mind you are usually spending
    	four to six dollars an hour to the contracting company
    	on top of the engineers salary. There are savings to Digital
    	as far as benefits goes.
    
    	2) While contractors may be viable for helping out with PC's
    	and some high volume equipment, there is still quite a bit of
    	traditional products, networks and new Digital Alpha systems to deal 
    	with. I feel contractors can be helpful for large scale installs and 
    	major DECmoves, but you still need some real DIGITAL people there
    	to oversee things. 
    
    	3) STANDBY - that seven letter word that means an expense to
    	Digital but also ruins the evenings, nights, and weekends of many
    	an MCS engineer. I wish I could count all the times I've pulled
    	an all-nighter or got woken up at 1:00 am to go on a DECservice
    	critical call that the customer site is an hour and a half from
    	my house.
    
    	4) Support - WOW there's a biggie. We have some heavy duty
    	customers out there that never expect their system to be down
    	and if it is, it better be fixed in a couple hours and never 
    	go down again. Today's MCS engineer better be able to use
    	TIMA and VAXnotes because there aren't as many support people 
    	as there used to be and the half hour response on a trouble
    	call rarely happens when support is called. On top of that we do 
    	it with less engineers available and less of a parts inventory.
    
    	5) MCS - if someone doesn't know it, it stands for Multivendor
    	Customer Services. I've been servicing Fujitsu, Systems Industries,
    	Hitachi, Emulex, and SUN for many years, so the name MCS isn't
    	really a new concept to me. For someone to come in and service
    	EVERYTHING we service is not a small task.
    
    	6) Committment - DECservice - four hour response, continuous
    	effort. Not something you're likely to send a contractor out on
    	on a regular basis. And if the contractor doesn't know WTF 
    	he (or she) is doing, that could be the end of that contract.
    
      In summary, I agree that there are some situations to use
    contractors. But to dismantle MCS entirely would be an insult to
    one of the more profitable divisions of the company. 
    We'll see as the next two years come to pass.
      I have continued to be an MCS engineer because I enjoy solving
    customers problems. I will probably continue to work in that capacity 
    no matter who my employer is. 
    
    								-jOHN r-
    
3337.11Putting the front door on the fire!BRUMMY::MARTIN::BELLMartin Bell, Central PSC, Birmingham UKWed Aug 17 1994 04:229
Engineers (and i am _not_ in MCS) are one of the few regular "Digital
Visitors" to our customers. I the UK many (most) of them spot further
sales opportunites, some of which can be quite substantial - this is
no doubt helped by the "Opportunity Channel" bonus scheme.

Why would contractors want to seek out further sales opportunities,
and how much money would we thus lose??

mb
3337.12Seedlings...JOBURG::SADLERWed Aug 17 1994 04:5527
    Hah, pass me the soapbox...
    
    Two models, 1. Retraction: I cut costs, cut heads, rely on existing
    		   customer base, loyalty etc. end result? - DOWNWARD SPIRAL
    		2. Investment: I take it on the chin a bit longer, while
    		   competition retracts. Then when they CAN'T offer the service,
     		   and I CAN because I'm better equipped with better equipped 
    		   staff (for starters) spares etc. AND I go out in the market 
    		   place and BLow my trumpet because I can offer better
    		   systems, support, everything, I retain my existing customer 
    		   base, AND start nicking everyone else's end result -
    		   UPWARD SPIRAL-employ more, stock more, provide better
    		   service, better results, employ more,....
    
    Simplistic I know, so develop it a little, don't just shoot it down
    because that's the easy thing to do.. (It's easy to criticise, far
    harder to construct)
    
    Read NOTES, liberally, what is the feeling in general? Pretty negative.
    No, UGLY, Negative. BUT, and I reckon big but, there is an
    undercurrent of intense POSITIVE trying like hell to get out...but like
    a plant, tree, animal, baby, whatever, it needs feeding.
    
    Feed me seymour, feed me......
    
    				A.PLANT (-8-)
    ,                                                    
3337.13PACER is the new provider of Pathworks in FranceEVTAI1::ARMANDWed Aug 17 1994 11:195
    A letter was sent by Digital to the french customers informing them
    that they have , by now, to contact PACER for delivery of Pathworks
    products and services. Nobody from the field was informed of this new
    strategy before. MCS engineers were informed directly by the customers
    who gave copy of the letter.
3337.14Full story time ?WELCLU::SHARKEYALunch happens - separatelyWed Aug 17 1994 11:393
    Is that just the MAC product though
    
    Alan
3337.15what if???CX3PST::CSC32::R_MCBRIDEThis LAN is made for you and me...Wed Aug 17 1994 12:175
    What if the contract company was a wholly owned subsidiary?  What if
    the parent company got the money (or even some of it)?  Same technicians, no
    benefits - hence lower cost, lower salary - hence lower cost,
    contractor buys the parts - hence lower cost.  Sounds like a win-win
    for a corporation, but at whose expense?  
3337.16PathworksEVTAI1::ARMANDWed Aug 17 1994 12:271
    MAC AND PC's
3337.17SWAM2::SCHMAUDER_PAWed Aug 17 1994 12:2910
    John,
    
    I don't think they will be replacing MCS...but there will be a good
    percentage of contractors perhaps a 60/40 in favor of the engrs.  Don't
    get me wrong...I think it stinks...but what I think and what makes
    sense doesn't seem to be a big concern for DEC.  Matter of fact I bet
    that the % goes up for the contractor and we are left with only a few
    engrs to "supervise".  
    
    Pat
3337.18starting to make senseLJSRV2::DANIELSMark Daniels DTN:226-2094Wed Aug 17 1994 13:1812
	Here in development engineering, contractor direct rates at 
	approx $50/hr (+ 35% markup for the agency) are a wash when 
	compared to the rate (which includes benefits) used to 
	forecast engineering budget. 

	However, if the contract company's billing rate is moderately
	less than the salaried MCS engineer, then replacing a percentage
	of MCS with contractors will be a cost savings (not sure its win-win).

	I'm sure someone has done the appropriate research on the job 
	markets to determine this, otherwise some percentage of MCS 
	engineers will enjoy the monetary benefits if contracting.
3337.19Sub-contract = sub-standard!SWAM2::GOLDMAN_MABlondes have more Brains!Wed Aug 17 1994 16:0846
Note 3337.10 - DABEAN::REAUME
    
	>...I feel contractors can be helpful for large scale installs and 
    	>major DECmoves,....
    
    Speaking as a DECmove Specialist, I have to note that I think my
    customers would have something to say about contracted engineers
    working on their gear.  I would say that contract workers would reduce 
    the marketability of all HPS products, but particularly DECmove, 
    where our only "added-value" is in the excellent (but expensive)
    insurance, and in being the manufacturer, with manufacturer-trained 
    engineers.  Even on a large scale move, I much prefer (as does my 
    customer) to have engineers who are familiar not only with the type 
    of equipment involved, but the customer-specific configuration, as well. 
    How can a contractor know, for instance, that a particular 8000 series 
    system is a non-standard config and needs special handling, or that 
    the TU81 attached to that 4300 is as tempermental as a Chihuahua in heat?
    Even if the site engineer is supervising, he/she can't be "on top" of 
    every contractor every minute.  I'd rather be there myself, and, along
    with the moving crew, take care of non-technical tasks like rolling
    cables and disconnecting terminals, thereby saving engineer time, than
    to have non-Digital personnel on site!
    
    Personally, I think that the entire concept is penny wise but pound
    foolish (as usual!).  How can we say we have best in class service if 
    we have no control over the people rendering that service?  Having 
    been a "contract worker" (a temp, even worked here 8 months as 
    temp prior to becoming perm), I know that one tends to feel little 
    investment in or loyalty to, the company for which one is working
    without benefits, etc.
    
    Not only that, but when our customers see that we are contracting 
    engineers, what is to stop them from doing the same thing, and
    perhaps saving a lot of money?  Let's say Mr. Customer has a critical
    project, and needs 24x7/2 hour response for 6 months on a huge
    configuration of cash cows (take your pick).  Is it cheaper/better for
    Mr. Customer to pay us and have us sub out the work, or for Mr.
    Customer to go directly to that same agency and contract themselves an
    on-call engineer for 6 months?
    
    Heady stuff, huh?
    
    My 25 cents...
    
    M.
    
3337.20She'e right, you know...POBOX::CORSONHigher, and a bit more to the rightWed Aug 17 1994 16:546
    
    	M.
    
    		Here, here. Quality is more important than price to most.
    
    			the Greyhawk
3337.21Bzzzzzzt.LEDS::VULLOSimplify &amp; DeliverWed Aug 17 1994 16:589
As an application software contractor I disagree with most of the 
generalizations written in this string.  

A contractor is only as good as his/her last reference.  There is no better
incentive to work hard and work efficiently.  There is no better incentive
to finish a job properly and cleanly.  This is Capitalism at its best.

-Vin
3337.22The person telling me was sad!DV780::VIGILWilliams VIGIL, y que mas?Wed Aug 17 1994 17:2627
This is what I heard, and does not originate with me.  These are NOT my opinions
and I do not agree with these proposals.  Don't shoot the messenger...

I was told that our local "field service" manager had just returned from
"hatchet" training.  When I asked what that meant, this is what I was told.
(This is unconfirmed, unofficial, and from a non-management source!)

Field Service has the highest payroll costs because they have very senior
people with very broad and extenive electronic and engineering training,
but the company feels that the majority of the work today is board swapping
which is a low-cost expense.  Also, frequent and expensive overtime is
something that needs to be cut.

In order to reduce these costs, all FS engineers were going to be TSFO'd
and then their work history would be reviewed.  Those that Digital wants
back would be offered jobs as contractors as a fixed annual salary, which
did NOT include a vehicle, training, or travel expenses, etc.  I believe,
although I can't remember for sure, that the contract period would be on
an annual basis, and those who fail to maintain their skills would not be
recontracted with.

FWIW, thats what I heard.

Seems to me if the contract price was right this could be a good deal for
both parties.  However, the figures that I heard were unrealistically low.

Ws
3337.23time to punt?ROMEOS::DARNELL_DAWed Aug 17 1994 18:577
    if all this is true, i think it is time to become a milk man, where the
    main worry is there enough milk and butter.
    
    maybe my remaining grey hairs will turn brown again.
    
    david
    
3337.24It must be different in futureIDEFIX::65296::sirenThu Aug 18 1994 09:0115
Re .22

I wrote the note 3297 in purpose to discuss about this type of actions,
which might be expected in this industry. There hasn't been much comments so
far. I do believe, that some of it must happen. The question is, what can/
need to be done inhouse and where the authorized service provider is more
cost efficient for the customer. In some cases it is a question of 
being affordable. Product price of $2000 vs a service trip of $1000 don't
match.

I don't like it, but it will obviously be part of this business in future.
On the other hand, if done properly, somebody needs also to deliver support
material for the outside service.

--Ritva
3337.25Value of MCS?GRANMA::MMURRAYso many notes, so little timeThu Aug 18 1994 09:138
    
    From a wise fellow from MIT.  He offered the following basic advice.
    
    ...Becareful what you outsource.  NEVER outsource a competitive advantage.
    And beware, this wouldn't be the first time the outsourcing of a key
    company-function became the possesion of the outsourcee.
    
    Is MCS key or a competitive advantage?
3337.26PASTIS::MONAHANhumanity is a trojan horseThu Aug 18 1994 09:509
    re: .25
    >    Is MCS key or a competitive advantage?
    	It depends on what you see as our area of business. I don't think
    Intel see a need for such a function, even outsourced. I don't know
    much about Oracle, but I wouldn't be surprised if they at least had the
    concept. And then there are companies like Arthur Andersen's who make
    much of their business from this.
    
    	Are we Intel or AA, or somewhere in between?
3337.27Employees & ContractorsBABAGI::CRESSEYThu Aug 18 1994 10:2611
    In general, Digital can best meet its long-term steady need for
    work with employees, and its short-term fluctuating need for
    work with contractors.
    
    There are, of course, exceptions, like security, etc.
    
    Planning future employment levels involves a very tough forecasting
    problem, and a relatively simple scheduling problem.
    
    Dave
    
3337.28more than break, fixUNYEM::JAMESSThu Aug 18 1994 12:159
        Corning Inc. did $17 million worth of business with Digital last
    year. The reason is Digital service. They also buy our starting to buy
    our PCs for the same reason.
    
                              Steve J.
    
    P.S. I would love to contract back to Digital. Then I wouldn't be bound
    by non competitive agreements.
    
3337.29Look aheadROMEOS::STONE_JEThu Aug 18 1994 18:3020
    According to the stock market types, Digital needs to cut the work
    force by 20,000.  So who ya going to cut?  The guys who make the most
    and who have few friends in high places.  Field Engineers are in the
    field, not hangin out at HQ making contacts and learning DEC speak.
    
    Field Engineers,(for the most part) are great Customer Service people,
    able to talk to our customers one on one, keep the business for DEC and
    present a professional compitant image to all.  They get up in the
    middle of the night, all kinds of weather, go where ever needed, do the
    job and really get very little credit for their efforts. DEC will
    sacrifice these professionals for a year or two of balance sheet gain. 
    The big boys are under the gun and have to make money each quarter,
    hang the future, if we don't make money next quarter, there is no
    future for these guys.  
    
    What the field needs to remember is that Cream rises to the top.  All
    of the FE types I know will be valuable assets to any organization they
    choose to join.  They are business like, skilled engineers who will no
    doubt be happier, healthier and richer once they put this troubled
    scenerio behind them.     
3337.30JULIET::LEZAMA_ROThu Aug 18 1994 21:3114
    Some humor for those that do not get the Dilbert cartoon in their local
    papers:
    
    Captions:
    1	Our two goals this year are to downsize and improve customer
    service!
    
    2	Question-- How can you improve customer sevice if you're getting
    rid of service people?
    
    3	Who do you think is screwing up the customer service?   Duh...
    
    The Dilbert cartoon is written/drawn by a programmer at Pacific Bell 
    (or ATT) in Pleasenton CA but he must have some Digital experience.
3337.31QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centThu Aug 18 1994 21:496
    Re: .30
    
    Scott Adams has never worked for Digital - it just shows you that
    things are bad everywhere.  He doesn't work for a phone company.
    
    					Steve
3337.32opinions from baltimoreMAASUP::MUDGETTWe Need Dinozord Power NOW!Fri Aug 19 1994 03:1756
    Greetings from the tip of the spear,
    
    Several thoughts here:
    
    Piercing thought #1:
    
    A fellow field service person's reaction to the note discribing changes
    in field service was that it was so obsurd, bizzare and foolish that
    it'll undoubtably happen! That was my reaction also. 
    
    Piercing thought #2:
    
    A couple years ago I had a very slow week so I was in the office alot
    doing all the makeup stuff that never seems to get done, scheduling 
    pm's, expenses and the like. Our secratary said that she had never seen
    me so busy! If you know what us FS types live like... If I was in the
    office it was the opposite of being busy. It was a real illustration to 
    me about how little people realize the value of field service. 
    
     Piercing thought #3: 
    
    Ever since I started repairing equiptment for a living in 1976 I've
    heard, "the stuff is getting so simple that we don't need experianced
    fs people anymore." A manager once told me that the word processors I
    used to fix were so simple that they were thinking of just fed-ex'ing
    the modules to the customer. So basically field service would just be
    a logistics organization. I didn't think so then and don't think so 
    now... Managers have told me ever since I became a t5 that the systems 
    are soooo simple that all they really need is t2 or t3 board swappers.
    Tragically people don't stop learning and growing so if there isn't a
    future here they'll soon move on. Xerox tried this in 1982 it was
    called the PSR basically they hired people really cheap ($200 per week)
    gave them no car only a allowance for milage and expected a large
    turnover. The field service business is littered with people who worked
    for Xerox for a year as a PSR. 
    
    Piercing Thought #4:
    
    Is there a connection between the changes in the car plan and the
    makeup of field service? One plan has us connected to mother-digital
    by providing a tool (you know the company car) and the other turns
    us all into contractors with no company or little connections to
    Digital. So which one is going to win? 
    
    
    Finally, the car plan is going back to what it was before Zereski fixed
    it in 1992. I think its wonderful. I went on plan b a year ago and
    bought a Ford Escort in an attempt to make a buck on the deal. This
    last year I put 40,000 miles on it I am going back to those lovely 
    mammoth Taurus' the first minute I can possiably do it! I swear there
    are days I am so sick of that gutless, cramped, noisy thing I weep 
    at the thought of driving it. We in field service live in our cars and
    living in a escort is like living in a phone booth. (I even have a
    phone in it!)
    
    Fred Mudgett
3337.33Sorry, couldn't resist...PEKING::RICKETTSKMichael&#039;s dad - 21-Apr-94Fri Aug 19 1994 03:556
    >>What the field needs to remember is that Cream rises to the top.
    
      I thought the organisation of this place was more like a septic tank,
    where the biggest lumps rise to the top. 8*)
    
    Ken
3337.34When will the recession start?PASTIS::MONAHANhumanity is a trojan horseFri Aug 19 1994 05:3412
    	Part of the equation is the assumption that contractors will always
    be available at a reasonable price. This *is* a reasonable assumption
    with *employees*, at least in Europe. If you have been employed by a
    company for a few years then the loss of benefits from voluntarily
    leaving is high, and any new employer has to offer a lot.
    
    	For contractors, firstly there might be *none* actively job-hunting
    when you need some. This will happen when we hit boom rather than
    recession. Secondly, in boom rather than recession contractors can and
    will move on very short notice for an offer of higher pay. By changing
    from employees to contractors we are planning for a recession in the
    computer industry in the near future.
3337.35Try to find a pay phone that works!USHS01::HARDMANMassive action = Massive ResultsFri Aug 19 1994 10:149
    >living in a escort is like living in a phone booth. (I even have a
    >phone in it!)
    
    Wow! You guys back east still have car phones? The Texas district won't
    pay for 'em any longer. Too bad if you're locked into a long term
    air-time contract... :-(
    
    Harry
    
3337.36re last 2UNYEM::JAMESSFri Aug 19 1994 10:225
    In upstate they never have paid for them. We can get one ourselves and
    pay the air time out of our own pocket or stand outside in 0 degree
    weather on hold for 15 minutes to champ.
    
                               Steve J.
3337.37Used, abused, confused and amusedDCOFS::PALUSFri Aug 19 1994 16:4862
    Are we using the term contractor to cover several different classes of
    labor available on the open market???
    
    Some of the technicans here in DC working on the low end product line
    are not contractors per se but have been employed  as temporary help
    thru a temporary agency.  The agency owns the employees and sells them
    to Digital on an hourly/weekly basis same as Kelly girls and are under
    the direct report of a field service line manager.
    
    Contractors on the other hand have been defined by the Internal Revenue
    Service as having an arms length relationship with the organization
    holding the contract with the contractor.  A simple example would be if
    Digital were to contract all its field service needs to Bell Atlantic.
    Digital would define the terms of the contract ie meet all Decservice
    and Basic committments with XX amount of return calls due to parts
    unavailability.  Bell Atlantic would then do the selection of field
    service engineers, set up the logistics supply chain and support
    networks.  Digital would be far removed from the day to day operations
    of Bell Atlantic and this would be a classic IRS example of a
    Contractors relationship.
    
    Contract Employees  may be the term that best describes the references
    in this discussion.  Digital enters into a finite employment contract
    with an individual for a specific amount of time for a specific amount
    of compensation.  Normally there are breach of contract clauses and
    separation clauses built into this contract. Digital maintains day to
    day control of the person but is not responsible for the traditional
    expense of a statuatory employee, health care, pension, insurance,
    sick time, vacation time etc.  The contract employee should be smart 
    enough to allow for the above expenses when negotiating the contract
    but let's be realistic,  there are many unemployed people who can fix
    terminals and pc's that are willing to work for minimum wage and pray
    that they don't get sick.  And everyone of them is trying to get
    Clinton's Socialist (communist is a word sometime used) Health Care
    Reform Bill passed because they or their dependents require medical
    care which they were too __________ (hungry, ignorant, stupid, you
    supply the word) to negotiate a realistic contract.  Please don't get
    the wrong impression about contract employment, it works real well for
    many people who need to build skills, sell their marketability, move
    around the coutry, etc., and it gives companies great flexibility for
    controlling expenses too.  But sometimes its just used for a company to
    exploit a very depressed and cheap labor market without any regard to
    individual or social consequences and as such it proves to have
    disasterous results.
    
    Hey, someones going to make a lot of money in the future, and if you
    think that you have a workable solution then go ahead and:
    
    Form a temporary agency, hire field service engineers and supply them
    on a as needed basis to Digital.
    
    Form a service company (sorbus, bell) and subcontract the work from
    Digital for maintenance contracts.
    
    Become a footloose and fancy free contract employee who sells
    marketable skills to the highest bidder, work when you want, where you
    want and for who you want. 
    
    Or continue to work as a full time employee for Digital and feel
    underpaid, overworked and not appreciated.
    
    					Thanks for listening. 
3337.38PASTIS::MONAHANhumanity is a trojan horseSun Aug 21 1994 03:5913
    	You should expect to see every variant of contractors. Most
    contractors I know personally own their own company, and that company
    contracts with DEC. That company, which is often registered in an
    off-shore tax-free haven usually has a single employee, though in
    principle it could have more.
    
    	I know of a team of 40 software engineers that are all employed in
    that basis - DEC is dealing with 40 different companies to use the
    team. I know of another team of 40 software engineers that are all
    employed by the same company. DEC has a single contract with that
    company. I can also think of teams of 40 software engineers that are
    all DEC employees so Purchasing is not involved in their employment.
    There are also mixed teams - see the discussion on technical writers.
3337.39not all jobs can be handed that wayWEORG::SCHUTZMANBonnie Randall SchutzmanMon Aug 22 1994 10:1412
    At least in this part of the company, Digital won't hire contract
    employees as tech writers directly through their own company -- you
    have to go through an "approved" agency.  Which means that even though
    I'm my own business, an independent consultant, when I want to go
    through Digital, I have to work through a regular agency. 
    
    I believe software engineers can be and often are handled differently,
    so I presume this is IDC/SES policy rather than "corporate" policy. 
    But who knows.
    
    --bonnie
    
3337.40PASTIS::MONAHANhumanity is a trojan horseMon Aug 22 1994 10:256
    	The "approved agency" may be universal. Contractors with their own
    company that I know have had to have that agency approved. There
    doesn't seem to be a rule that an approved agency should have more than
    a single employee. If it was too much trouble to get their company
    approved then the person went to work elsewhere. If DEC is difficult to
    do business with.....
3337.41Balance is CriticalPENUTS::STEVENSMon Aug 29 1994 22:2332
    During a recent social function I had the opportunity to speak with
    a Digital/IBM customer, who is also a distant relative.  She is an
    MIS Manager who makes purchasing decisions, so I asked her what she
    thought of the service she received.  This is what she said....
    
    "The IBM people come across with a holier-than-thou attitude and I
     don't enjoy dealing with them."
    
    I then asked what about the service Digital provides?  She said...
    
    "John doe is great!  No problems, always there for us, very helpful,
     very pleasant, a pleasure to deal with."
    
    ** Notice when I asked about Digital she used an MCS Engineer/Account
       Representative's name, ( phony name inserted above, although I will
       say he is in Connecticut ).  To this important multivendor customer, 
       John Doe, Is Digital.  This personalized service is what 
       differentiated Digitial from IBM.    
    
       If Digital/MCS were to invest heavily in outsourcing/contracting
       while divesting in their existing frontline service engineers, we
       may jeopardize an important competitive advantage which we have 
       established over the years.  The proper balance must found to meet 
       the individual needs of our diverse customer base or Digital may lose
       a clear service product differentiator.  
    
       Beware - a service product commodity mind set, it may lead to a 
       tragically flawed strategic plan.     
      
       Regards,
    
       Dave