Conference 7.286::digital

    I think the "get out early option" has already got up and went.

    Re:                      <<< Note 3242.0 by JOBURG::HARRIS >>>

    Every individual will  have  different feelings/needs/plans, here are
    mine:
    
    I have been 20+  years  at  Digital, I feel that the company has been
    good to me, but that  I  have  also  been  good  to  the company.  In
    balance, other than memories, she doesn't owe me anything and neither
    do I, so to me it all boils down to what I want  to  do in the future
    and where I want  to  be.  My crystal ball says that if I survive the
    bad times (and so far I have), there will be good ones in the future,
    and when that happens, it will  be  a company that I would still like
    to work for.  (I don't know what size it will be, but I think of what
    shape and the scenarios are not too bad). 
    
    But since I could be "chosen" at any  point  in time, it will be very
    irresponsible for me not to prepare myself for that and to understand
    my possibilities outside Digital, so I have had my resume  ready  all
    along and have sent to a couple of places.  (So  far  no big interest
    from either part).
    
    /OLD
    

Staying for the sake of staying with "Digital" is a facade.  The Digital of old
is forever dead.  The spirit has left, replaced by something else.  We are all
dime-a-dozen commodities, who's longevity is dependent upon return to the company.
If you don't return profit, you're expendable, and probably gone.

There is still much interesting work to be had, that's for sure.  Are you doing
it?  Is there a future in what you are doing?  Will YOU become more valuable by
doing this work?  These questions should be the ones asked, and your decision
based upon the answers to these.  Do it for purely business reasons.  That's how
YOU are being evaluated by the company.

    for .0   get your resume updated.  take some interviews.  If you
    get past the cuts you not only have your job but you got some
    feedback from the "outside" on your marketability (strengths and
    weaknesses).  If you do not get past the next cut.....you at least
    have started looking.
    
    

    If you are truly asking the question....my 2 cents...look around until
    you find a job that you would like doing - with a company that is
    progressing and leave!  I too thought that DEC was going to make it and
    I wanted to be part of the NEW DEC...but, IMHO, DEC is going to be left
    with the management it deserves and I don't wnat to be part of that! 
    When the right moment comes - for me - I will take my talents
    elsewhere...I wish you well and peace of mind.
    
    _pat

    
    
    re .0  I have been trying to answer alot of the same questions for
    myself....
    
    What if I up and leave, and they turn things around and the old DEC
    comes back? 
    Then I remind myself of the old saying "you can never go home again"...
    the old DEC IS dead. It died when Ken left and when the company was
    taken over by someone with no personal ties, nothing personal to
    lose...sometimes I wonder if Ken made that decision to sabotage the
    company that treated him like a senile old man towards the end....
    "I'll show ya...ever heard of THIS guy??"
    But at any rate, the days of yearly pay raises and donuts at meetings,
    and training on the products you support, and company picnics...
    are forever gone.....
    It is so depressing....like someone died.
    So a shrink would tell you to just go on and don't look back...
    get on with your life. 
    So why am I still here?  Well...what if...what if...DEC DID come back?
    (like watching for a movement from the open casket cause you can't
    accept the fact that the person there is really dead...
    and part of you (the part in denial) knows that as soon as you walk
    away, he'll move (cause he can't really be gone).....
    
    In fact, a previous note, the one about Albuqurque and Chihauhau 
    closing their facilities, reminded me of way back in the old DEC days
    when we played volleyball against those facilities in the SouthWest
    tournement that DEC sponsered yearly....
    
    Damn I miss that old company.....
    

        Personally, I'm here for two reasons:

        1) I'm engaged in developing and deploying a dynamic new
        technology that is sweeping the Internet, and having a very
        good time at it since it fits my interests almost perfectly.
        Also, I'm working for one of the best managers and with one
        of the best teams I've known in my 15+ years at Digital. 
        (Yes, I've worked with great individuals before, but there's
        a whole lot of difference between a group of good people and
        a good team.)

        Otherwise, I'm sure that the company would have sent me
        packing by now (as it tried a year ago when I got this job).


        2) A year ago when I tried looking the job prospects for me
        and my background seemed *very* bleak.  They may have
        improved considerably given my recent experiences, but I
        suspect finding a good alternative to working here would be
        a long full-time job.  In the mean time I have a family to
        support using my good salary and benefits.  Given #1 above it
        seems prudent to stick it out as long as the job itself is
        good.

        I have no illusions that the old DEC will ever reappear, nor
        that I have any real long-term security.  But for now it's a
        decent job and the alternatives are tough.

        Bob

>    But at any rate, the days of yearly pay raises and donuts at meetings,
>    and training on the products you support, and company picnics...
>    are forever gone.....
 
  Not necessarily. If we go to a divisional structure, as has been proposed,
there is a good chance that one or more divisions will become profitable AND
will have management that recognizes that investing in morale is a sound in-
vestment. There is a difference between wasteful practices such as sending an
entire group on a 1000-mile trip to a trade show and sound investments such as
training. I consider an annual outing on company time (officially called a
"woods meeting") as a sound investment in morale, and I think there is a good
chance this sort of thing will resume.

>   It is so depressing....like someone died.

  It's worse, it's like someone had cancer for four years and then died. 
Except Digital is not quite dead yet.

    It's much worse!  I find myself analyzing the rumors and trying to find
    a motive for each successive absurd announcement.  I try to find MBA
    course cost-cutting techniques, management strategies or power plays
    that fit the pattern as I see it.  What I deduce is very scary.  I'll 
    take actions to ensure my personal security (and that of my family)
    regardless of what happens in the future but:
    
    1. We have a good pension plan (us old guys are into that stuff)
       and Digital is required to settle it with us should anything 
       happen (a layoff or sale of a business unit).
    2. After all these years I get paid pretty well and starting over 
       might not (but I can always check by testing the market).
    3. If I have made the step to 3, 4 or (soon) 5 weeks vacation a new job 
       (or if my non-core business gets sold) may start over at 2 again.
       Or...maybe not.
    4. If my non-core business gets sold the new company may not pay as
       well or may not keep the new employees.  Then again...they might.
       I think it's a good idea to be prepared for alternate
       employment/means of supporting myself.
    
    I have the guts to stick it out, but I'm hedging my bets.  If one of
    my "feelers" finds something better in my "core requirements" I'll
    retire early and bag it.  Call that a win-win scenario.

    Ladies and gentlemen...  we are right on the edge of a new frontier. 
    ALL computer companies are having problems right now; Digital has no
    hold on this market.  The fact of the matter is that we are a lot
    closer to fixing it than most.  IBM has a much bigger ship to turn
    around:  They are selling real estate and technology just like we are. 
    They are reorganizing monthly and changing CEOs and VPs frequently. 
    They have layed off 200,000+ in the last four years.  HP has not even
    begun to address the problems they are sure to face as soon as their
    laser printer faces some competition.  We already know from their own
    announcement that their computer is out of steam (64-bit Intel
    announcement).  Sun is going through many of these problems today, but
    have no control over their own technology.  TI is killing them with
    late chips and their new Operating System is abysmal...  so bad that
    they have outsourced its development (Amdahl) and are considering
    dumping it all together.
    
    Digital, on the other hand has taken those pains early.  We took on the
    64-bit challenge before anyone else.  We were 64-bit before 64-bit was
    cool.  We are on the bleeding edge for modular commodity storage
    systems.  We have the newest, most advanced and most standard Unix in a
    market characterized by proprietary confusion.  We are the leader in
    the Windows NT market, which could very well turn into the OS to end
    all OS wars.  We have a loyal base of VMS customers that actually fight
    to keep our systems in while less technical CFOs cut our footprint and
    choose Unix, take a 10-year leap backward all because it is Open and
    Open is cool.  We have the fastest growing PC in the world.  Can you
    believe that we have any market share considering we have only been
    making these things ourselves for two years?  Truly amazing!  In a
    world of confusion, the client/server world that is, we have come up
    with some of the best software to straighten out this mess:  Pathworks
    5.0 is amazing, ObjectBroker, DB Integrator etc are terrific.  
    
    We are very close to moving ahead of the pack.  If we can stick it out
    another 18 months we will be in very good position technically.  After
    getting down to 50 ro 60K employees and maybe $10B in revenues
    ($200K/employee), we will be in a very good position financially.  We
    will be the new and improved Digital with the attitude of old: 
    technically sound and hungry to be #1.  Nobody is here to ruin the
    company.  Everybody wants to see us get back...  deep down even Scott
    McNealy wants us.  We used to be his favorite target.  Scott became
    very rich targeting us.  After we hit rough times, he has had trouble
    adjusting to a different market.  Our customers want us to make it. 
    Wall Street wants us to make it, as do most of the analysts (alright,
    this one is a lie...  blood seems more exciting to them, but we can win
    them back).  Damn it, in a larger sense, America needs us to make it!
    
    We are the underdog that everyone roots for.  We are good at being the
    underdog.  When we got to be the giant, people wanted to knock us down. 
    Now momentum is with us.  We have a lot of great, caring people working
    here world-wide.  Our financial situation has brought us back to a
    customer-driven and customer-service oriented company.  We may be the
    better for it.  To hell with Wall Street!  That's what Ken always told
    us (and them on occasion).  They can't run a company; they gamble on
    how others run it.  Most of the time they don't even understand what we
    do.  We can have the most mind-blowing announcement and they seem
    asleep as our competition apply their fiercest spin to reduce the blow. 
    Did you ever notice how often Sun and HP had announcements the same day
    we had an important one?  We don't play that game with them...  they
    are the ones that are nervous but try to proclaim our early death.
    
    We tried being everything to all and it didn't work.  We lost focus. 
    We are regaining it today and I think that focus will be more than
    clear to the world in about a week.  If our competition can only make
    FUD about our financials, they are in some serious trouble.  We can
    explain and even fix our financials...  it's a much longer haul to fix
    the problem.
    
    ..Larry

    I can unserstand all the "hoopla" and "team" ideaology regarding
    the turning of the ship; But, what can be said when a manager 
    essentially tells a group (afterhours) they can go to first shift
    or quit!
    
    I can see the attitude change for better?.
    
    
    Jeff

    For what its worth. If my actions cannot have an affect on the
    outcome of where I work then it is time to leave. When I am 
    no longer in control of my own ship, then I leave. DIGITAL is not
    my parent, comforter or security its a company like MCI, or IBM or DELL or
    MicroSoft. You work for them and they pay you. It was a hard decision 
    for me to make to leave a place where I worked, put in my time, and
    went home, but I realized that my job and what happened to me no longer
    depends on my performance, nor does it depend on the amount of effort
    that I exert. So I choose to go.
    
    Wherever I go, I want to make a difference. Whether it is by action or
    attitude. (Hmm I can work on this one...=(...)
    
    I leave Friday, and I have been here 11 years...
    tom<
    see the results then  

    Hi All,
    
    I am here because I enjoy doing my work and I don't really know what is
    ment by the old Digital, I have been with Digital for two and a half
    years.
    
    I try to be positive and do what I can.  I know that I don't have 100%
    control over life in every and any aspect but the amount of control I
    do have I exercise it to the fullest.  I enjoy my self at work and have
    quit worrying about be TSFO'd that is not in my hands.  I have one
    thing in mind and that is to do my best everyday and let the future of
    the company be decided in the board room or the stock markets.  Today
    is the only day that I have who knows what will happen tomorrow so I
    try to be happy.
    
    As to the fact should I leave or not I have faith in my abilities and
    know deep down that I can contribute positively,  I know I will survive
    no matter what happens.   My small contribution to the success or
    failure of this company is important and so is everyone elses.  All
    these small contributions add up to one big contribution.  It takes
    time to turn around and I am willing to wait.  I have also learnt a lot
    from my experience of what happens during the hard times and I will no
    doubt if TSFO'd go to University to get more skilled and learn about
    other things of interest.
    
    Thank God life is in constant flux it add's to the spice of life I love
    it.
    
    Regards,
    
    Sunil

I think everyone has had this question "Stay -- or go?" on their mind at one
time or another, and especially during the last several months.  Anyone with
marketable skills who has not dusted off their resum� is probably still in a 
state of denial.  This does not however, bode well for morale, productivity,
purposefulness, effective planning, innovative thought, or other key components
to a healthy business.  It cannot continue indefinitely.

I'm appreciative of .10's impassioned and eloquent address.  I have to agree
with him that Digital has the *potential* to be all that he has stated, but it
takes actual *people* to catch the vision and to execute the "plan". 

Once:
	a) this vision crystallizes (and it will soon, I believe) and
	b) the TFSOs and resignations are finally behind us 

then we can really get on with Digital's business as a team.  Once this
fuzziness of vision clears, and the bloodletting stops, people may be more and
more comfortable with the answer, "Stay". 

Digital can still make substantial strides without a or b, but *nothing*
compared to management's commitment to making both a and b happen. We will
enhance our success by:

	1) Deciding the businesses we're going to be in
	2) Chosing people to be in those businesses based on skills, not
	   on politics (I really loathe how some management takes care of its 	
	   own, when the [real and irreplaceable] brain drain at Digital is such
		   a disaster).
	3) Communicating the business model[s] to the employees and refining
	   those models based on field input
	4) Having fun again!

Keep up the dialog, this is a healthy forum.

/Kent

    re:.10
    
    What's in that pipe that they smoke down there?  Or is it the heat?
    
    Nobody said Digital's problem was lack of product.  Nor does product
    make a goat's bzadeh's worth of difference these days.  A well-run
    company could survive if their only product were Wang word processors. 
    A badly-run company could fail given any mix of product.  In the
    equation of success, current product mix is maybe 10%.
    
    I work in a business unit (formerly known as Corporate
    Telecommunications) that supports the company as a whole.  It has been
    mismanaged for years.  We've had no manager for most of a year and our
    latest VP tells us we won't get one, so we shouldn't expect to get
    anything done.  When Bill (BJ) Johnson gave up Telecommunications and
    Networks, he was stuck with us for a while, but after he left we were
    hot-potatoed to Dick Scarborough's "Professional Services".  That group
    was, at the time, profitable and growing.  Then it became "Digital
    Consulting" and I can't tell you here what I want to say...
    
    ... but as part of DC we know that CSC is surveying our work, and has
    not been surveying _us_ in the US, so if there were a huge billboard on
    Rt. 2 telling us to go a-hunting, it wouldn't be clearer.  Hey, in fact
    CSC could do a better job running telecom than the previous couple of
    managers, but then so could my nine-month-old who like telephone-shaped
    toys.  We subject-matter experts (or we like to think we are) are not
    valued here at by our management, so we are likely to join the tech
    writers as "commodities".  The only good side is that management may
    also be outsourced, which could really help the surviving company.
    
    But frankly, given our product and management mix, the only way the
    shareholders can get anything at all out of their investment (and I am
    one) is if the company is either a) acquired whole by somebody with
    basic management skills, which our current Angkar seems to lack, or b)
    the Angkar sells all the good units off for good money and lets the
    rest fade away a la Prime. There is no way in Hades that the current
    Angkar can turn this mess around.  So we HAVE to keep our eyes open if
    we want to feed our families.

    Alright - everyone into the pool -
    
    	I like Digital. I loved DEC. So what. Both are something in their
    own times.
    	I have "feelers" out. Anyone with half a brain these days better,
    You have families to support, and bills to pay. Commonsense should
    never get in the way of emotional attachment.
    	But what does this all mean? Will Digital under the current SLT
    find enlightment, and life's true path to an harmonious existence?
    Will Enrico seek the advice of real people? Who knows?
    	My feelings are so ambivalent at this point in time, I await the
    SLT's idea of the future. If it is not in tune with the realities of
    the marketplace as it exists today - I outtahere. 
    	Life, ladies and gentlemen, is just too damn short to put up with
    too much more of this carp.
    
    		the Greyhawk

    
    It's far better to be looking for a job while you still have one, than
    to have to look because you don't have one at all. 
    
    I've had my resume updated for the last 5+ years, and have recently
    been putting out the feelers. It's not pessimism that drives me, it's
    reality. 
    
    

    
    	Well, I for one say hooray for .10!!!  I can't see that he is
    smoking anything - what he says all rings true to me.
    
    	It was about time someone highlighted the positives instead of only
    ever harping on about the doom and gloom.  There certainly is doom and
    gloom out there, but we have too many people concentrating on that side
    to the exclusion of the positive side - so it is good to be reminded
    that there is a positive side to the situation in which we, as a
    company, find ourselves.
    
    	Yes, it is bad out there, but there are also some good things going
    for us!
    
    	By all means get the CVs (resum�s) ready, by all means go for
    interviews, by all means get another job with better pay - jolly good
    luck in all these things, but please don't keep an unbalanced view of
    the company's situation.
    
    	Thank you .10 for reminding us that all is not lost - YET.  That
    may possible happen - I have no way of knowing, but I think we shall go
    down fighting if we do go down!
    
    				Malcolm
    Twenty one years, next month, with DIGITAL and fed up with the continuous
    diet of gloom and doom!

    Hallo,
    
    I ask myself, where is the resistance of the people against layoffs
    and bad management. I think, its time to tell them, that we do not eat
    all, what they serve us.
    
    The old spirit has gone together with Ken Olsen, so ORGANIZE !
    
    Here in Germany about 40 % of the employees are organised in UNION's,
    
    Last Friday about 1000 Peoples where on the road for half a day
    on a "warning strike" against planned layoffs.
    
    More actions are in the pipe, depending on what we hear on 18.th 
    
    Volker

From a programmer's point of view...

re: .10

>    ALL computer companies are having problems right now; Digital has no
>    hold on this market.  The fact of the matter is that we are a lot

Have you checked out misc.jobs.offered lately? Things appear to be booming.

    There's nothing wrong with looking around and going on some
    interviews. There's nothing that says you *have* to go (as
    long as you're not laid off, of course).  See what is out there.
    You can always say "no" if you get an offer!  If by chance you 
    come across a job opportunity you can't say "no" to...then won't
    you be glad you went looking?
    

re. 10
       IMHO we are still too arrogant: we are the best, we have the best
     products and PCs, we are three steps ahead, they are behind 
  BUT they make profit and we are sinking ! We forget to serve better or even
 correctly our Customers who are more demanding when they can have alternate
flourishing competitors offers in the market.  
       
 G.T

    Good topic!
    
    A few years ago, I had to make the decision to go or stay and have since had 
    to revisit it about once a year.  Basically, I loved the company I came
    to that was DEC eight years ago.  That company is gone.  It was a
    "nice" company and in passing was generous to the folks that left. 
    It's less "nice" now and has been replaced by a new, less "nice" company.
    
    I love the folks I work with, but I've found that I love them in or out
    of Digital.  If I may echo previous notes, there are some pretty
    sizeable problems in other companies, too.  Go or stay, you'll have to
    deal with problems.
    
    Rather than base the decision to go or stay on company loyalty or
    sentiment or whatever, I base it on one simple question -- what is best
    for my career?  It turns out that, like others, I'm getting my hands on
    the best and most demanded technology.  I'm having fun and honing
    skills that are highly marketable outside.  And, guess what?  Making
    myself highly marketable *also* makes me more valuable to Digital. 
    I'm in a win-win situation right now.  The fact that Digital management
    wants to outsource makes me even *more* valuable because I'm *cheaper*
    than a contractor and am developing similar skills.
    
    Back to how hard it is "out there."  We're seeing the quality of vendor
    software really stink nowadays.  It's got to be biting them back.  Some
    of the support folks for CAD companies are being run ragged now because
    of buggy software that was released too early.  I've formed what I now
    call, 
    
    *** Sherman's Rule of Software:  If it works, it's obsolete. ***
    
    Steve

    well these jolly gung-ho replies are great _if_ you are working in an
    organisation that: 
    
    1. knows what it is doing
    2. knows where it is going
    3. knows how much money it has to get it there
    4. knows what skill it needs when it gets there.
    
    Our reality is far different. We await the 18th with bated breath. We
    are hamstrung until then. 
    
    The management here was at least honest enough to call a meeting to say they
    knew no more than us. 
     
    martin

    
    re .19
    
    when unions start making inroads into the sw engineering buisness
    then it will be time to find another line of work.
    

    When did life get so difficult-
    
    Leaving or staying are hard decisions if you focus on the paternalistic
    feelings you have toward the company.  When you started with Digital, 
    the work musthave been challenging and exciting as well as a working in a 
    great environment.  If the work is no longer great, do everything in your 
    power to make it so or find another opportunity like the one that made 
    you come to Digital in the first place.  Of the two, the job must be 
    exciting- the environment (assuming it meets minimum humane requirements) 
    is what you make it.
    
    It is a more difficult situation if like the work and can't make ends
    meet because of the decline of furtunes.  Here again, one must focus
    on the work and the compensation available on the outside without
    respect to the paternalistic feelings.    :^)
    

    To those who position us so strongly in the marketplace (re: .10), I
    have to wonder if you ever get out of the office. Working full time at
    a customer site, one gets a strong dose of reality.  Unfortunately,
    Digital just doesn't even come up in conversation much anymore. I am
    trying to change that but I am just one person.... 

    Maybe the comets that are due to strike Jupiter next week will cause
    that planet to implode, throwing the solar system out of balance and
    the earth spinning into the sun.
    
    Then we won't have to decide.
    

    
    can someone tell me the significance of July 18th? I've heard that
    date mentioned a few times in relation to "wait until the 18th"
    
    So..what's with the 18th????????
    
    thanks
    

    Supposedly thats when the Quantum announcement will be made.  Quantum
    is buying portions of Digital, ie Storage and Heads business. 

    
    I thought that that announcment was already made. Quantum did buy
    our storage "division"..

    I heard that the 18th is the day that the VPs will be distributing a
    message to all employees in their business units outlining the new 
    organizational structure of the business unit.  At least in MCS
    I've heard this.
    
    Anyone else?                                 

    There are probably more people than ever before that are watching this
    space. I am sure too, that corporate have seen all that we have felt and
    shown here. This is only a fraction of what is to be said. I ask all of
    you that have contemplated commenting, to do just that. If I was
    unhappy, really unhappy I would have left long ago. I am fortunate
    enough to have other employment but for now I work with a great bunch
    of people and come home at night knowing that I am an asset to the
    company. I am fully aware that the companies (in this case read
    shareholders) loyalty towards me is directly linked to my performance
    and my loyalty towards the Company is linked to my renumeration. How on
    earth is a company with such great products dying? If it is gone, let 
    it be swift.

    
    
    How is this company dieing?
    
    An example. 
    This morning, we spoke to a customer who was singing the praises of the
    7000 alpha box.  He loved it....
    
    This is the first WE heard that we even SOLD a 7000 alpha. 
    I can also say that I haven't heard much about it in any of the
    computer magazines...haven't heard much about it ANYWHERE. 
    
    HOW DO WE EXPECT OUR CUSTOMERS KNOW ABOUT THIS BEAT ALL FABULOUS
    WONDERFUL FASTER THAN ANYTHING MACHINE IF WE DON'T TELL EM?
    
    WHy are we frustrated? Why are we depressed? Why do we ccarry around
    this doom and gloom attitude?
    Because we've been compaining about the REALLY REALLY LOUSY MARKETING
    from this company for MANY MANY YEARS AND THEY WON'T LISTEN.
    THE ANSWER IS IN OUR FACES........Why are we doom and gloom?
    Becuase there are those who are starting to feel that the demise of
    this company was decided when Ken made his final decision. 
    The word SABOTAGE comes to mind. The feeling that we've been had...
    

    
    	My contacts say the magic of the 18th is that the SLT is all going
    to resign on the same day, and Barry Diller is going to be our new CEO.
    
    		the Greyhawk

    Who is Barry Diller?
    
    (I gots to know)
    

    Barry Diller = CEO of QVC Network; recently tried to buy Viacom and
    failed.  Much lauded man for taking two bit shop at home network and
    making a multi-billion dollar business out of it.  People don't just
    shop on QVC, they *love* it, they watch it for fun, they develop a
    relationship via the air waves with the show hosts, and more.
    
    Too bad it's just a rumor.  A little Diller-ism might not hurt us about
    now!
    
    re: .34 - see my earlier topic, Engineers and Marketing; I agree
    wholeheartedly.  I have a few customers out there who, despite our
    much-lauded growth in that market space and the phenomenal success of
    Enrico's unit, *don't even know that we make PCs!!, never mind the real
    value of an Alpha!*.
    
    M.

    Phyllis' husband.

Re: .38

No, that's Fang.

		Steve

    
    
    We all can tell who holds Mr. Warrenfeltz's infatuation. :')
    
    
    Mike

    re: Diller.
    
    Not entirely funny.  Diller is now working on a deal to become head of
    CBS, merging QVC into CBS and replacing the retiring Lawrence Tisch
    (current owner/chair of CBS).
    
    But it's Spielberg who understands dinosaurs better.

    
    	re:-1  O.K., but The Steven has a beard and will remind everyone of
    Jack Shields.
    
    	Personally I wish Motorola would do a stock swap for us. That would
    be the best of all worlds, but it ain't going to happen. The word "on
    the street" today is Paine Webber has issued a "special accumulate" on
    DEC to its very best institutional customers on the basis that we are
    worth $30 a share in the near-term dead or alive. That to PW means
    within six months; so who knows?
    
    		the Greyhawk
    

Well, it looks like someone likes us:

Symbol        : DEC         Exchange    : New York Stock Exchange
Description   : DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP
Current Price : 21.000      Volume      : 574100
$ Change      : 1.500       % Change    : 7.69
52 Week High  : 43.125      52 Week Low : 18.250

/harley

    REPLY TO .29
    
    On July 18th a DVN to all employees (2 hours) was scheduled....
    it has been postponed to July 21st (for the moment)
    
    Gresh BREBACH's DVN is now announced for July 28t, in addition.
    
    Bien cordialement
    depuis Geneva
    
    Brigitte
    

    Back to the base question:
    I think that all others should leave, so I can stay ! (just kidding!)
    
    Dominique

    Hallo,
    
    I think, that we do not have the choice, wether we should stay or not.
    
    Bob Palmer says, he will cut 20.000 , so every 4th of us will be fired
    or sold.
    
    Remeber even in the old days of the old romans "only slaves can be
    sold"!
    
    Volker

    re: one out of four to go...
    
    The thought occurred to me the other day... 
    65K is just about half of our historical max employment figure.

    .48 >65K is just about half of our historical max employment figure.
    
    I believe the reduction in heads back in 1989 was due to the fact that
    we had far too many people doing admin for the business coming in.
    
    Does anyone know the current ratio?  Are we doing any better now ?
    
    8^|                    
    

    .48 >65K is just about half of our historical max employment figure.
    
    Our margins have dropped in half also from almost 70% (VAX heydays) to 
    33% (Q4FY94). At 65,000 we will be competitive but barely in today's
    cut-throat markets.

    re: .27
    
    >>To those who position us so strongly in the marketplace (re: .10), I   
    >>have to wonder if you ever get out of the office. Working full time at   
    >>a customer site, one gets a strong dose of reality.  Unfortunately,   
    >>Digital just doesn't even come up in conversation much anymore. I am   
    >>trying to change that but I am just one person....
    
    
    Yes, Gayle...  I get out of the office.  I work in the same office you
    do.  I get as good a sense of reality as you do with the same
    customers.  You're also not the only one out there trying to change
    customer perception in this geography...  we're all on the same team.
    
    ..Larry

    Once upon a time, there was a great institution called the Boston
    Celtics that fell upon hard times.  They did the only logical thing,
    they drafted an untried, inexperienced, very tall college player that
    nobody wanted and gave him a lot of money.  The reason that they got
    this very tall player was because "conventional wisdom" dictated that
    evry successful team should have a very tall player, no matter that he
    couldn't play basketball, he couldn't run fast, he couldn't jump and
    his greatest talent seemed to be passing out applications to join his
    fan club.  Well, it turns out that this tall person did nothing for the
    Celtics, no surprise; didn't build up much of a fan club, also no
    surprise; and will probably be let go before the start of the next
    season.  He will, however, walk away with a lot of Celtic money.
    
    There was also another great institution, a computer company in the Boston
    area  that fell on hard times.  They also, according to "conventional
    wisdom" got a person with skills at D__speak, (Does "value chain" sound
    familiar?) driving fast cars, having trophy women and a Pat Reily hair
    cut.  He also got the big money upfront.
    
    
    
    Questions:
    
    Is Red Auerbach on the board of directors of Digital?
    
    Will I be alright once my prozac kicks in?

    I'd like to add a little to help you make up your mind to stay or go.
    Here in Albuquerque, of course you know we're closing, but let me tell
    you what Digital is doing for us. They are setting up a  job fair here
    in the plant to ease the transition from Digital to other employment,
    the list of companies is growing every day. The list so far includes,
    Intel, Motorola, Jaycor, the city of Albuquerque, the state of New
    Mexico, Baxter, Sumitomo, Philips and they say it's growing. A new
    software firm Intuit is moving into the Albuquerque, area in two months
    bringing in 1200 more jobs. Jaycor's has already listed it's openings
    on our walls and it looks like their internal listings have been
    extended to us Digital employees. Our personnel is putting together a
    notebook of our resumes for these  employers to review. 
    This is Digital-Albuquerque doing this for us, this company is just as
    great as DEC was, they aren't going to let you dangle. We're getting
    our packages, even though Digital is hurting money wise. All I'm
    trying to say here is be happy, those that get to stay with the company
    make it fly again, we're all in a win-win situation.
    
    

RE: .53

	Certainly sounds more upbeat than the greater Nashua area. Seems
	any decent jobs are a 1-2 hour commute down in Mass. 

							mike

    
    re -.1
    
    <<<         any decent jobs are a 1-2 hour commute down in Mass.
    
    well, do not let a commute factor into a decent job.
    
    -Mike Z.
    

    .53
    
    Intuit is NOT a new software concern...they recently took over
    ChipSoft...they may be new to Alburquerque but they are not a new firm.

    Well, I think they're _relatively_ new - and have had lots of success
    with products like Quicken.

    I heard that Intel is really gonna be picky about who the hire from
    here on in.

Should I stay or Should I go?


I have decided to leave.  I work for the DC (Digital Consulting) in Peoria, Il. 
I worked for the Logistics Business Practice building custom warehousing solutions
for DEC's customers. My job was not in jeopardy and no TSFO actions ever came close
to me (that I know of).  My decision to leave were based on the following:

o I read the "Looking forward document" and while it had some good things to say I
felt that the model presented was essentially flawed. It referes to people
(humans) as resources which are re-located in a worldwide physical geography and
refers to increasing employee turnover through burn and churn etc. 

To me this really wouldn't be conducive to having a family and being a 
contributing part of a community. I guess I am not really interested in their
model. I also know that if I really wanted that model I could just work for A.
Anderson and not have to work out the kinks in DIGITALs implementation of their 
consulting model.

o I have also grown tired of wondering which way the axe will fall. I felt that I
had a lot invested here and that there was too much at risk to rely on some
political shifts for my continued income i.e. too much uncertainty. My skills
are in good demand and I felt that I could go somewhere else were I could free
myself of the concerns over the next downsizing and managerial twists. If only
Digital could have provided some re-assurrances or guarantees which  would have
raised my comfort level.  Over the years Digital invested a lot of money in me
and I was always billable. Its too bad that they don't know how to proetect
their investments in the people they have.

o I didn't really want to work for CSC or whoever DC may or may not have been sold to, I
just wanted to work for DEC.  

o It seems statistically improbable that this office (PEO) will be a viable
office in the near term and I felt it was important to protect my best interests
and the financial security of my wife and kids. I want to stay in this area where 
my family lives. The new model calls for big offices in big cities, unfortunately
the manufacturing customer base is is not centered exactly like that. 

o Very few people inside of the DC management seem to undertand how to sell our
services into customers. It seems improbable to me the new CSP's (mostly political
appointments, not based on skills) will be capable of selling into our largest 
customers. And if they are what are they selling? Our capacity to deliver projects has 
been absolutely devastated by the reorgs, lack of career path, tsfo's, and really good
people leaving. Personally, I would be really afraid of tackling a really big effort
with what remains. It would be lawsuit city after all was said and done, especially
if unknown subcontractor X is applied liberally. Today, it seems like the value
added by some managers is to mail out the 911 listing for deliverables in far away
places, instead of tackling the really hard problem of selling DC into customers
in our local area at reasonable and competitive rates.

o I don't want to drive my personal car all over two states for .225 cents a
mile, running up the mileage on my cars. I am really not interested in that kind
of car plan. I can make the same money somewhere else and not have the mileage and
lack of compensation for my additional efforts.


I really liked working at DIGITAL for the last 7 years and I am sure I will miss
the people I worked with that still are here. Maybe by leaving I may have saved
someone elses job or prevented someone from being tsfo'd.

Sincerely,

Dan Ward

    
    A few weeks ago I watched the A&E Biography program they did on Donald
    Trump.  He came back from a deficit of $900 million, and is apparently 
    now doing better than ever.  It took seemingly endless days and nights 
    over a long period of time, tremendous sacrifices, and the press was 
    brutal as usual, but did happen.      
    
    He's either published, or is soon to publish his latest book entitled, 
    "The Art Of The Comeback".  Though I'm not exactly a fan of his, I may
    just pick up a copy...might be worth the read.
    
    It can be done.
    
    Cindy