Conference 7.286::digital

    Bob:
    
    Go for it..... I want to swim and have been trying to communicate just
    what you've said so well for months.....
    
    HOWEVER;  hang on to your hat...... the negative responses to your note
    will be here soon enough.
    
    Thanks for the uplift......JP

    No they won't.

    Bravo! Bravo! Bravo! ... Brava! Brava! Brava!
    
    An infrequent noter, 
    Carel

      re:                  <<< Note 3204.1 by MSDOA::SCRIVEN >>>
    
    >    HOWEVER;  hang on to your hat...... the negative responses to your
    >    note will be here soon enough.
    
    I am a read-only noter at heart, but this one is worth a comment!
    
    I want to beat the negative responses with a big "thank you and
    I couldn't have said it better myself!"
    
    Marci Potter
    

My .02

There ARE a lot of people working VERY hard in this company.  But with the
complete absence of official information about what is really going on,
impending changes that will crucially affect most of the employees, these
hard working people can and will speculate about the company's (and their
own) future.  And that is being done because, in spite of the griping, they
really do care.

I've seen too many good hard-working people quit or TSFO'd.  Each time I
read a goodbye note or attend a goodbye dinner, I'm saddened.  Its like
a little bit of me was being cut.  Even if I never knew the individual, I
know the hard effort that they have produced only to see a form of failure
as their reward.  Digital's fate is our fate too.

I'm working, like most everyone, very hard for my customer to succeed so
that Digital can succeed.  But I'm speculating too.  And I think about
tomorrow.

Ws

    Sinking or swimming as a whole is not really up to you and I, but how
    we perceive our jobs and how we do them daily is.  We need to quit the
    bellyaching and respond to the call.  We were not promised positive
    morale - we are promised a paycheck for the work we do.  It's up to
    us to change what is called morale in this company.
    
    -sjd
    
    

   Bob - We could've used that speech in the locker room ......

   Nice Job !!!!


_sbn

>big rathole conference for people to p*ss and moan about the current state of
>the company.  

Of course, if it weren't it such a state perhaps people would not be moaning???
And perhaps people would not be voluntarily leaving with no package....

>If this company is ever to become profitable again, it'll only be
>with a full and concentrated effort on the part of ALL of its remaining
>employees.

Not if the people on high have different plans...  Or no plans... or whatever.

>(see note 3175 for examples).  Do you want Digital to be successful?  Do you
>want to have a job here?  

You imply that people who "vent" etc don't want these things.  A VERY rash
assumption on yopur part.  It seems a number of people voluntarily leaving
without a package partially answers your second question.

>First, this company needs ALL of EVERYONE'S energy devoted to turning it
>around.  

Please let us know what response you get from top/upper management when you
forward this to them.  They are part of "ALL", are they not?

>A 1/2-hearted effort won't cut it.  It may be what got us into this
>mess in the first place. 

On whose part?

>Know that all the time spent in here whining is time
>not spent putting Digital back on track.  

Wrong.  Sometimes you have to know what the problems are before you can solve
them.  Digital has used the "ready, fire, aim" principle much too often.
I think hiding problems and going for the 'everything is rosey' attitude is
EXACTLY what got us this far along the road.

>I see in this Notesfile and in this company a picture being painted of a
>destiny which ends in turmoil, bankruptcy and mass unemployment.  

Considering the number of TFSO's, I think that 'mass unemployment' is here.
Turmoil also appears to be here, but not due just to 'venting'.  TFSO'ing
via a bean counter mentality certainly causes turmoil (most of it) as people
try to shift to cover the areas that were vacated.

>other during these troubled times. Forget what's going on above us.  We can't
>directly change that stuff.  

Sorry, but that 'stuff' cannot be ignored.  While you may not be able to change
it, it will certainly have a direct impact on how you do your job.  More 
process, less people to handle work loads, expertise gone... These things DO 
impact us and no amount of 'positive' images will help that.  True, you can do 
the best job you can in a given set of circumstances, but it seems we should be
trying to prevent the circumstances from deteriorating.

>We CAN change it though by each of us changing
>what IS within our control.  How may people does it take to influence change? 
>Answer:  enough.  There is no magic number.  There's just a critical mass which
>one must reach before meaningful change can happen.  Enough of us together can
>make up that critical mass by doing as much as we can in our respective areas,
>IN SPITE OF the adversity that sometimes surrounds us.

Wrong again.  EDP recently attempted to get things done by trying to get
people together to affect positive change.  What has happened to that?  Seems
it is frowned upon by (whatever level) management.

>the positives, even though they may at times be hard to find.  Kling onto them
>with all your might and move towards them as a beacon of light for our
>collective futures.  

Nice touchy-feely sentiments, but I doubt they will be much use as more people
are let go (recall the 20k number?).  

    
    	Let me add my quarter, also.
    
    	Locker room speeches are important, have no doubt about it. But
    they only last for a little while. The key is not who's working hard,
    or what they are working at. It is do you have a PLAN for what the
    working is supposed to accomplish.
    	
    	And right now, today, we don't.
    
    		the Greyhawk

    Thank you for .0
    
    I read the following in someone's cube a while ago and I think it puts
    what we need to do in a nutshell:
    
    "Focus on what you want because you get what you focus on"
    
    Negative-vision is a self reinforcing downward spiral. It's like having
    blinders on, you can't see the opportunties to get out of the rut.
    
    Joseph

    
    related to this note...anybody know what happened to the results of 
    the Employee Survey that went out awhile ago?
    
    

    
    	:-1
    
    		YES. But I'm not allowed to tell anyone, or they kill me.

Re: .8

I respect your right to take exception with my points-of-view.  You took some time to
disect my statements and to rebut them, but you seem to have missed my point...

>And this isn't to say that if we do these things that Digital won't
>still fold or that any of us might not still lose our jobs, but if we don't do
>these things we will CERTAINLY see the demise of Digital and our respectively
>employment opportunities.

An attitude like that which is expressed in your note leaves no room for success.
It could be staring you right in the eye, but you won't see it because you've pre-
disposed of its possibility to exist.


Bob
 

    
    
    Bob,
    
    
    I think that most of us would like to be part of a successful team.  I
    think much of what you see here is frustration.  Frustration of not
    knowing what is going on and of people making suggestions and the
    powers that be not listening.
    
    
    Mike

    
    Take a look at the Dataquest, Inc. Company Profile report on Digital,
    dated June 13, 1994, for an outsider's view on our company.
    
    Part Number:  EE-C3396-48
    Program:      Client Server Computing Worldwide
    Product Code: SRVR-WW-CP-94AA
    
    Brad Day, Director/Principal Analyst......(508) 370-6178
    Via FAX...................................(508) 370-6262
    
    Yeah, sure, the guy's an "analyst", but you just might like what you
    read

Until the SLT decides what kind of a company we are going to be and informs
the rest of us, we are all just treading water.

Bob

    re: .6
    
    Being in sales we have NO IDEA what our paycheck will look like, who
    our District manger will be, possibly who your customer(s) will be
    & what's products we can/will/want to sell next year. Locker room
    speaches are for the locker room. They don't pay mortgages!
    
    
    

To all the complainers:

I just started with Digital and I am more than happy.  Sure, the company is 
going through some rough times right now but the only way to turn the 
company around is to have everyone do their part.  It won't help us at all if 
you plan to spend 1/2 your day complaining about the condition of the 
company.  You have to spend 100% of your day working as a team.

Everyone might be surprised by what happens if we all do our best.

-H.

    Re: Rebuttals to .0
    
    I do not believe that there is any Digital employee that has not 
    struggled with his/he emotions and attitude over the past few years. We 
    all attempt to stay "focused"  but we are human and everyone has their 
    ups and downs.
    
    I too agree with .0 and daily see others who spent a large majority of
    their time discussing when they will get "TSFO'd", and what they will do 
    when they are "TSFO'd". Many times I have allowed myself to get caught up 
    in this "sinking ship syndrome" and it is a hard one to escape!
    
    I agree that many of us "worker-bees" do not fully understand where we
    are going in the future or what the future Digital hold for us, but we 
    must continue to EARN (yes I am yelling) our paychecks, keep our
    commitments (internal and external) and control our attitudes. 
    
    For those individuals who believe that the "sinking ship" cannot be
    saved please get off the ship now, your dead weight is not contributing 
    to our buoyancy!
    
    For those of you who feel a little "unfocused" lately, or need a way to
    escape the "sinking ship syndrome" allow me to offer you the following
    (I keep it posted on my wall).
    
    				ATTITUDE
    
    The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life.
    Attitude, to me, is more important than facts.
    
    It is more important that the past, than education, than money, than
    circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people
    think or say or do. It will make or break a company...a church...a
    home.
    
    The remarkable thing is we have a choice every day regarding the
    attitude we will embrance for that day. We cannot change our past...we
    cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot
    change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play in the one
    string that we have, and that is our attitude...
    
    I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react
    to it. And so it is with you...we are in charge of our Attitudes.
    
    
    					-Charles Swindoll- 
    
    
    
    
    

    
    It may not be that "all the complainers" are spending half their day
    complaining about the condition of the company.
    
    It may be that many of those complainers are working days, nights and
    weekends trying to cover for compatriots who were arbitrarily laid off,
    or to recover from decisions and counterdecisions that seem to have no
    rhyme or reason and tend to wipe out months of previous work.
    
    It may be that some of those complainers start off each day with a
    squeaky clean positive attitude, only to have it wiped out completely
    before lunch by the latest manifestation of pettiness, bureaucracy,
    turf wars or rudderless management.
    
    It may be that a few of those complainers are 100% team players, but
    tired of their coaches being constantly out to lunch.
    
    It may be that the only people who can keep smiling and pushing forward
    through all this are the truly sainted, or the truly brain-dead.
    
    I don't know for sure, mind you, but it just may be...
    

    RE .18:
    
    100% of my time working as a team?
    
    Wow, that's effective and efficient!
    
    Get real/...
    
    Parvenu

    rep .20
    
    	Thanx...I needed that!!
    
    	But it just might be......

>An attitude like that which is expressed in your note leaves no room for success.

Once again, you are QUITE wrong about what I beleive can and cannot be
accomplished, even in the current state of the company.  So, agree to disagree
about some aspects of this??? :-)

    If someone is standing on your foot.. you should complain.  If someone
    is gives you a dollar.. you should thank them.  At this time digital is
    doing both to their employees and each day one has to balance between
    the positive and the negative.

RE: all

There is another way to handle the morale problem: never talk to any Digital
employees.  I go out of my way to spend as much time as I can with customers,
and as little time as I can with any other Digital employee.  You would be
amazed at how well I feel about myself, my company, and the job that we can
do for the customer.

The above comment is made in jest (before anyone jumps down my throat with
"but my job requires me to interact with only Digital people" etc).  I know
that only the field is fortunate enough to be able to do this, and that 90%
of the people in this company are prohibited by unwritten policy from talking 
to any customers.  But I can tell you that my days are split into 2 types:
the ones where I see only customers, where I go home feeling pretty good; 
and the ones where I talk to other Digital people, and we inevitably start
asking about who has been laid off (even though they were >100% of budget),
and who will be laid off next: then I go home feeling pretty lousy.

RE: .20

>    It may not be that "all the complainers" are spending half their day
>    complaining about the condition of the company.
> [etc]

It may also be that the people who are doing the work don't have the time
or inclination to write anything here: they are too busy doing their job.

Believe it or not, there are some people in this company who do not read
or write in this notesfile.  I don't believe that this notesfile accurately
reflects the Digital population at large.  For one thing, many Sales Reps
don't participate here because they either 1) don't know about it, 2) don't
care enough about it, 3) are spending their time on activities which will
bring their paycheck back up to what it was in 1993 before the commission 
plan, or 4) recognize that nothing written in this (or any other) notesfile
means a darn thing to anyone.  It cannot change policy, it cannot influence
Digital's plans, and it is not taken into account by those people who set
our plans and policies.  Maybe some few notes are extracted and read out of
context by one of the lower level VPs, but these people read Doonesbury and
Calvin & Hobbes in the morning too: does this affect their decisions?

So if I believe the last few sentences, why do I write here at 11:00 PM on
a Sunday evening?  Because it is like the college dorm room bull sessions
that I used to participate in.  Intensely felt, passionately argued, widely
varying levels of rational thought and reasoning ability on the part of the
participants, and all ultimately with no impact on the real world.  We 
always stayed up late arguing the problems of the world, and we always got
up on Monday morning and went to class no matter what we had decided the
previous night.

One last point, also expressed by .20:

>    It may be that the only people who can keep smiling and pushing forward
>    through all this are the truly sainted, or the truly brain-dead.
    
"Smiling and pushing forward" is part of what I (and you) get paid for.  If 
you don't keep pushing forward, then you are not doing your job.  While I am 
here, for as long as I cash my Digital paycheck, I am honor bound to do the 
best job I can for Digital.  If I give up, if I don't do my job but still 
accept money from Digital, then it is the same as stealing or fraud.

Whether this makes me sainted or brain-dead (or both), is left as an exercise 
for the reader.  

-- Ken Moreau

    Re: .25  Well put, Ken.
    
    Some previous replies have referred to my basenote as some kind of
    lockerroom rah-rah hoopla.  At first, I felt insulted by those
    comments, but upon reexamination I am proud.  For you see, the
    lockerroom is a place where TEAMS gather.  I've always considered
    myself a team player and I take pride in that.  And I truly believe
    that teamwork above all else is one of the key ingredients for success
    at all levels at this stage in Digital's life.
    
    Words are just that, and merely that, unless they are backed up with
    actions and beliefs. I may not be able to change the world in the ways
    we too used to discuss during those late night study breaks at the
    dorm.  But the difference (for me anyway)  as the years go by is that
    you learn what you can affect and change and what is out of your
    immediate control.  You can either go on complaining about what you can
    do nothing about (as some folks choose to do) or you put your energy
    into what you can have an affect on.   I have chosen to do the latter
    in my life, both as an occupant of the planet earth and as an employee
    of this fine company.
    
    To those in here who believe that all of what goes on at Digital is out
    of your control, I ask you 'why are you still here'?  If you can no
    longer make an impact, stop assigning blame and get on with your lives. 
    I work in a part of the company that has a possibility of not even
    being a part of Digital by the end of Q1.  So don't preach down to ME
    how bad it is.  I work not knowing from day-to-day for whom or even if
    I will be working tomorrow.  I'm not a Saint nor a fool.  I AM a
    believer and one thing I will certainly never be is a quitter.
    
    You can flame all you want about how the VPs got us into this mess. 
    But only a fool believes that solely the VPs will get us out of it
    either.  There's only about 150 of them.  When all is said and done,
    there'll still be 65k of "us".
    
    I can't change the past.  I can't predict the future.  I CAN have a
    positive affect on the present, and for as long as there is a Digital,
    that's what I plan to do.  If you see fault in the system, have some
    guts and fix it.  Take matters into your own hands.  Throwing up your
    arms in disgust got us into this mess in the first place.  Have we
    learned nothing from all of this?  For too many years, problems went
    unchecked in this company because it was easier to ignore them than it
    was to fix them.  Well, nothing is easy anymore.  It's just up to you
    which path you chose.  If Digital is so screwed up in your eyes and
    beyond repair, please do the rest of us a favor and leave.  This isn't
    the only game in town.  Let the rest of us get on with the task of
    putting this company back on track!
    
    I thank those of you who have responded positively to what I previously
    wrote.  I encourage ALL of you to presevere.  But in the interest of
    keeping myself from getting sucked into a rathole over all of this, I
    plan to exit from this conference for a while.
    
    See you all on the other side!  Things may look a little different than
    what we once knew as DEC, but we will make it (despite the Q4 results).
    
    Bob
    

    re .0 and several others
    
    Rationally I would say: SWIM
    Emotionally I would say: SINK (who cares)
    
    I (and many collegues with me) have been through reorganisations the
    last 5 or 6 years. 5 or 6 years ago here in this plant worked about
    1300 people. By friday 1st less then 200 will be left over. 1100 people
    (both workers as management) have been waved goodbey over the last 5
    years. However, there is a difference. Untill october 28, 1991 we were
    Philips employees. From that moment on we were sold to Digital.
    
    By Philips management we have been reorganised many times. Those were
    the several stages of `operation Centurion'. We could choose: swim or
    sink. We kept swimming. Then we became Digital: world's second computer
    manufacturer.
    Aaaaah, that is a relief. Now the good times come up. But you know.
    Another reorganisation, and another and another (I lost the counter but
    I bet it is >10 for the last 5 years). We kept swimming, motivation
    is/was still there. But the last one, which reduces the size of this
    plant with another 26.5%, is for a lot of people too much.
    
    In the words of .0:
    Instead of the rocky road, I prefer a tunnel without light. You know
    there will be an end, so there will be light. Then you see a light, so
    you go for it. It only happens to be a torch, so you continue.
    5 years in the dark. That is terribly long.
    
    Moaning and whining, yes I did that in this notes conference. That is
    just for taking away my frustrations. If you ask sink or swim:
    
                     ****SWIM****
    
    but swimming in the middle of the ocean without any land in sight is
    pretty tough.
    
    Maybe it would be better to have a conference where you can moan and
    whine as much and as long as you like, using the language you like. But
    THAT would NOT be fun to read.....
    
    rgds, Ronald

    Like many others I suspect, I resorted to this conference due to a
    complete lack of meaningful communication on the short term and longer
    term prospects for Digital and DC (my workplace).
    
    Although I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments in .0, I
    increasingly find myself in an environment where at probably as much as
    a staggering 20% of the day is taken up in dialogue/activities related to the insecurity of individuals rela
    to the future of Digital. 
    
    When will the leaders of this corporation wake up to the real bottom
    line impacts:-
    
    		o In the UK territory alone this 20% non productive time
    		  equates to some UK �3.75 million cost annually
    		o In terms of Lost Revenue it must equal tens of millions
                  of Pounds.
    
    Why when we have methodologies and tools to help client organisations
    through change and reengineering (which only comes about because of 
    crisis in 80% of cases) can we not begin to apply them to the
    communications, motivation and morale issues within Digital. Instead we
    hear about spin offs, buy outs and jobs being slashed in both D&L and
    DC.
    
    regards
    
    1st time Notes responder (and it shows!)
    

>    comments, but upon reexamination I am proud.  For you see, the
>    lockerroom is a place where TEAMS gather.  

Getting a bunch of people in a lockerroom does NOT make them a team.  They
have to be working together, same goals, same expectations of success etc.

>    that teamwork above all else is one of the key ingredients for success
>    at all levels at this stage in Digital's life.

True, but what happens when the line up constantly changes or players are
"traded" or "benched" or "<insert some other sports allusion here>"
    
>    Words are just that, and merely that, unless they are backed up with
>    actions and beliefs. 

Quite true.  Although I seem to here a number of people say they see neither
from upper management.

>    do nothing about (as some folks choose to do) or you put your energy
>    into what you can have an affect on.   

What makes you think people aren't?  Just because people write (and sometimes
gripe :-)) in this conference does NOT mean they are not doing anything to
change the problems they see.  To beleive otherwise is pessimistic and a
disservice to them (and violates your own 'be positive' rule :-)).

>    of your control, I ask you 'why are you still here'?  If you can no

When all else fails, the "love it or leave it".  There have been a number of
people who have moved on for that reason.  When a sufficient number do that,
it is more likely that real problems exist.  The best thing to do is address
and fix the problems, wouldn't you agree?

>    I work in a part of the company that has a possibility of not even
>    being a part of Digital by the end of Q1.  

These days, isn't everyone?  many, many :-)'s.

>    But only a fool believes that solely the VPs will get us out of it
>    either.  

Only a fool believes that they are not a primary way of getting out of the mess.
Someone at their level and with their authority can overcome many of the lower
level hurdles that make the job difficult on a good day.  They are part of the
team; should they not be in the actual game???

>There's only about 150 of them.  When all is said and done,
>    there'll still be 65k of "us".

So, how many of the "65K" people do I have to get signatures from in order to
get a piece of equipment needed for my job?  How many VP signatures?  NUmbers
do not mean much without authority to back it up.  
    
>    that's what I plan to do.  If you see fault in the system, have some
>    guts and fix it.  

Who says people aren't?  There are problems at levels in this company that
are not 'reachable' to the common worker bee.  Is it really a problem for you
if people at that level are asked to fix problems at that level?

>Take matters into your own hands.  Throwing up your
>    arms in disgust got us into this mess in the first place.  

No, totally ignoring the fact that there were problems got us into this mess.
There have been a number of people who have tried to fix problems in this
company.  Check out many other notes in this conference.  Then ask where these
people are now.  

>Have we
>    learned nothing from all of this?  For too many years, problems went
>    unchecked in this company because it was easier to ignore them than it
>    was to fix them.  

Well, be positive.  Remember, a number of problems HAVE been fixed over the
years.  Think where we would be if they had not been.

>    which path you chose.  If Digital is so screwed up in your eyes and
>    beyond repair, please do the rest of us a favor and leave.  

Perhaps your 'rosey attitude' would be better suited somewhere else as well.
How many people in here have said it was beyond repair?  I see people getting
derided for even pointing out there ARE problems.  That is NOT being a team
player, in my opinion.

    re .29
    >>comments, but upon reexamination I am proud.  For you see, the
    >>lockerroom is a place where TEAMS gather.
    
    >Getting a bunch of people in a lockerroom does NOT make them a team.
    >They have to be working together, same goals, same expectations of
    >success etc.
    
    My view on Digital does not show me a team either. In my view there is
    TOO much competition between the different sites. And if there is too
    much competition, there will never be a Digital team. I feel the only
    thing we fight for (not me; I'm not in that position) is budget for the
    next fiscal year, or part of that year. That does not motivate to get a
    job done properly. That motivates to have `something' done quickly (and
    probably dirty).
    Either you (mgmt) say you do a job, or you don't. Do more with less
    money/people is not always possible.
    Teamwork is where you trust the people you work with and the people
    around you. Teamwork gets tough if some elements are unreliable.
    
    IMHO, Ronald

    Mandela spent how many years in jail ???
    
    What does Digital do to employees that have a different world view
    and are willing to act on it ???
    
    Yes I still get a pay cheque. Yes I still do my job (and one or two
    other peoples job that were already packaged)
    
    BUT
    
    I still try to point out problem when I see them and offer possible
    solutions...and  I look at the "help wanted"s a little bit more closely 
    these days.
    
    
    Keep trying ... but dont wear rose coloured glasses out in the rain
    and wonder why everyone is carrying umbrellas.
    
    
    
    Brian V
    

RE: .29

That is exactky what I tried to say in .18

-H.

    Nelson Mandela has always been a recognized leader of the ANC.  He set
    the example for his followers.
    
    Can we say the same for our leaders?  Why does it always come down to
    the people in the trenches?  I'm tired of the "Yes, the company is all
    screwed up, but it's up to you folks at the bottom to make things
    better..." comments.  The success of an organization is based on the
    cumulative effort of ALL its people.
    
    The people in the trenches DO give 100%+ every day.  However, they do
    not have the power, or have very little, to influence the decisions
    that determine this company's future.
    
    The base noter's intentions are good, but he targeted the wrong
    audience.  He really ought to send that message to Mr. Palmer, his SLT,
    and all the middle level managers that are making and implementing the
    decisions that have gotten us to where we are today.
    
    Am I being negative?  I think not.  I know what I am contributing, and
    what I have contributed, and I am damn proud of my record.

    What I see all around me is good people working their hardest, putting
    in long hours and immense effort to swim upstream while wearing
    concrete overshoes. 
    
    If they drown, I hardly think it's their fault for not swimming hard
    enough. 
    
    --bonnie

    re: .34 - Thank you, Bonnie...my thoughts exactly!
    
    M.

    Having worked for another company (WANG) that went through the same
    kind of problems Digital is having, I have seen all of this before. 
    WANG also told us that it was up to us, the folks in the trenches to
    pull it out and we believed it for awhile.  But after a couple of years
    of no improvement and not even being able to buy a pencil you get a
    little jaded.  Then you work your heart out and someone above you makes
    a decision that wipes your function off the org chart.
    
    I hope Digital does not downsize as drastically as Wang, I do not think
    it will.  But all I can do while I am here is do a good job and stay
    marketable.  Many people who used to work for Digital are the decision
    makers at new companies and will remember you for giving your best at
    Digital. We are people after all, not just Digital people.
    
    Digital can pull it out still, but it will have to come from
    the top. It just sets people up for major disappointment and low morale 
    to make them think that the success of this company is all up to the
    work in the trenches. Dedication and hard work from the bottom
    contribute, but it won't fix it.  
    

    
    
    RE: -1
    
    
    How big was wang at it's largest $$$$$$wise?
    
    
    How many employees did they go from -> to?
    
    
    
    thanks,
    
    Mike

    A guess from memory:
    
    $3Billion with 30,000 employees. Last time I heard they had about
    6,000 people with little over $1 Billion in rapidly-shrinking revenue.

    I think it's less than that now.  I heard 4000 and about 300 million
    revenue.

RE: .29
(From: RUSURE::MELVIN)

Just how much time and money have you just cost Digital pulling peoples 
notes apart line by line and expressing your opinion. 

I've only been with Digital a relatively short time and I'm also relatively 
young but I have heard often of the good times when Digital had the money 
to be able to treat it's employees like it wanted - well wake up and smell 
the coffee: THOSE DAYS ARE GONE! 
It's that simple. The Digital that existed then has gone and for those 
people who were around during that time then it must be a very difficult 
transition to make. Seeing friends get pushed out the door isen't easy but 
at the moment thats exactly whats happening. Digital has got a future, 
in some ways it will be worse than before and in some ways better and if 
anybody doesen't want to be part of that future then the door is just across 
the office.

Nick 

>Just how much time and money have you just cost Digital pulling peoples 
>notes apart line by line and expressing your opinion. 

ABout as much time as you just spent taking a pot shot at me.

>in some ways it will be worse than before and in some ways better and if 
>anybody doesen't want to be part of that future then the door is just across 
>the office.

So is yours, n'est pas?

    
    
    oooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh

    RE: .40
    
    I am also young and very new at Digital (1 year today), but I disagree 
    with the attitude that "... if anybody doesn't want to be part of that 
    (digital's) future then the door is just across the office."  

    There are a number of very upbeat intelligent people that have chosen to 
    spend decades of their careers here at Digital, and have recently had the
    painful experience of watching long-time friends and colleagues, people 
    who have also dedicated their working lives to Digital, exit involuntarily.
    I don't pretend to know how horrible this feels, but I can say that in the
    past year alone I have had seen some outstanding people exit, and even 
    after having a relatively short relationship with them, this experience 
    has been painful for me.  (Insert violins here...)
    
    I understand your frustration with what appears to be some peoples' 
    dwelling on the subject of Digital's days gone by, but try to understand 
    that they share a dramatically different perspective right now than you or 
    I who haven't invested many years of our lives in a career at Digital.  
    Your expectation that every one of them should, and even could, just forget 
    about the old Digital and move on is unrealistic at best.  For many 
    long-time employees, Digital has provided very well for them and their 
    families over the years.  This implied loyalty is not easily forgotten or 
    overcome.

    Please consider their perspective at this time in Digital's history.  There 
    is plenty to learn from their insights into where Digital has been and 
    where it is going (for better or for worse).  We new-comers can learn a 
    lot from their experiences.

    Let's also not forget that the same people that you criticize are the ones
    who are responsible for the fact that you and I had this company to come to 
    work for in the first place. 

          

    
    Forgive my cynicism please, but I have a question for the
    two respondents who are "relatively young" and new to
    Digital (i.e., < 2 years).
    
    My question is: what in the name of God possessed you to
    come to work here?  Don't you read the papers? My advice
    to both of my kids, who are now of working age, was to
    stay as far away from computers as possible. Of course,
    neither one of them listened to me.
    
    Glenn

    Your message made me smile because you are one of a thousand people who
    have asked me why I chose to come to Digital.
    
    I came in as part of the now defunct Marketing Development Program that
    Lucente killed in December.  When I signed on last July I actually 
    believed that I would have a two-year committment from Digital which
    would expose me to different facets of marketing throughout the 
    organization (Yes, NAIVE!).  
    
    The actual experience I have gotten by almost getting let go twice has 
    been priceless :) , but I think I am better for it.  My very non-
    traditional first-year of a career has been fascinating, to say the least. 
    
    Seriously, in spite of all of the turmoil and uncertainty, I think that
    Digital is a very exciting place to be right now!!
    
    

    
    
    RE: .43 and .45  Very refreshing comments, thank you.  From a "middle
    aged" deccie.
    
    Mike

    
    Re: .44
    
    >what in the name of God possessed you to come to work here?
    
    I've been here a little over two years as a software engineer
    attached to Semiconductors.  What got my attention was the
    opportunity to do something _never_ before done in the industry.
    Something that a lot of people said is/was technically impossible.
    Binary Translation.  I got into the project early enough to
    basically see the product ('mx') go from start to first release,
    and into maintenance mode, which is good for my resume.  We proved
    it could be done, and provided a really easy migration path for
    existing customers.  The project I'm currently working on has
    (in my estimation) good potential.  With a bit of luck, I'll
    be able to read about it (positively reviewed, I hope) in the
    trade press.

    Re .43
    
    You're right! Good Stuff. Thank _goodness_ for new blood here!

    
    
    I had the same thoughts, Tom.
    
    
    Mike

RE:      <<< Note 3204.49 by NOTAPC::PEACOCK "Freedom is not free!" >>>
     
   >>Have we come down so far that people don't feel comfortable
   >>openly asking questions or stating opinions any more?  
   
     Get used to it.  Stifling open dissention is a growing trend among
     modern corporations.  I see every indication that it will soon become
     standard operating procedure here.

                                   Greg

re: .49 and .50

Yes.  It has come down to that.  There have been too many cases of retaliation
and Open Door Policy failures for most people to feel safe.

Bob