Conference 7.286::digital

    The industry in general still treats large customers (or potential
    customers) like royalty.  Digital probably feels they need to do this
    in order to compete.  I see it as similar to the reasoning for hiring
    many VP's in a down period.  They have to act positively and *not* act
    like a company that doesn't have the resources to do business.
    
    That's my take of the justification...not stating either way if I agree
    or disagree with it.  That's what they get paid the big bucks to do, to
    decide how Digital spends its money.
    
    Jim

    Suppose you're bringing a customer up from the airport in Boston.  It's
    one of those 90/90 summer days, there's a truck turned over on I-93 and
    it takes you 20 minutes just to get out of the city.  
    
    If you're in nice comfy limo, you can turn up the air conditioning,
    pour a glass of something cool to go with a nice snack, and use the
    hour to get the customer softened up and in a good mood. 
    
    Now suppose you're bringing the same customer up from the same airport
    on the same 90-degree day, only you're in one of the airport vans. 
    You're the last stop, and there are only two seats left when you get
    on.  You have to sit across the aisle from your customer.  You're in
    front of a deaf old man who keeps shouting "whatdyasay?" because he
    thinks his wife is talking to him.  Two kids in the back are throwing
    paper airplanes at each other, and their parents are ignoring them. 
    The air conditioning is on, but the van's so full it's not doing much
    good.  The customer is starting to sweat through the jacket of what was
    once a crisp navy-blue suit.  
    
    Now, when you get to the plant, which customer would you rather sell
    to? 
    
    --bonnie

    .0  I must be in the same building, with the cafe on the front with the
    miles of glass...
    
    They're not all customers...  there have been all kinds of Digital
    muckety mucks identified amongst that lot...
    
    RHIP

    .0 
    
    Next time you see a DECCY jump out a limmo why not ask them to justify 
    their actions yourself?   Next time you see this - approach them yourself 
    and ask your questions to them - not a notes conference!
    
    As far as customers, IBM, HP and the like treat their customers like
    this - no questions have to be asked here - besides if it weren't for
    customers - how could you justify your job?  
    

    Another way of looking at this issue when the limo is for customers...
    
    I have a client who buys several millions of dollars of HW an SW
    products from Digital. On visits to greater Maynard, we incur an
    expense of several hundred dollars (sometimes as much as $1,000!!!) for
    limo service. While any expense needs to be looked at, for the reasons
    explained in .2 (or was that .3?) this is a miniscule expense and is 
    a cost of sales. These visits occur a couple of times a year. You
    figger it out

    I think our customers are fully aware of Digital's financial position
    and would probably consider it an unnecessary expense for them to use
    Limo service regardless of how much they may spend with us.  Our
    customers should expect no less than cost constraints such as these. 
    They want to know that Digital is going to be around a couple of years
    from now and if they see us squandering money on limos for them, I
    believe they could/would be offended.......  These are tough times for
    everyone (I can think of only a few exceptions) in corporate America.
    
    Cost of Sales...... You betcha, and if we don't get that cost of sales
    down, there won't be none....
    
    JP (once a customer, now an employee)
    

    Besides trying to impress an account, a limo has some value in allowing
    the occupants to have real discussions, face-to-face, during the trip. 
    It gives you the opportunity to cut the ice normally done during an
    informal chat before a meeting, over coffee, etc.
    
    Maybe the same accomodations can be supplied more cheaply, but you can
    also control the cost of this with contracts.
    
    Jim

    I've heard customers complain about how cheap we are about small
    expenses (like presentation binders and transportation) and how
    wasteful on big things like redundant processes, overlapping
    organizations, and general inefficiency.  Can't remember ever hearing
    one compliment us on our frugality.  
    
    I guess if we really were frugal, it might make a difference.  But it
    seems pretty silly to crack down on limo service when a person trying
    to place an order still has to know the part number before we can look
    up a part number . . . 
    
    --bonnie

    I've used limo services.  Recently I needed to leave from Boston,
    travel for two weeks+, then return to Manchester.  Leaving from Boston
    wasn't a simple "Nashua-to-Boston-take-the-airport-shuttle" deal
    either, since I began the day working a Trade show in a downtown hotel.
    The least expensive way to travel (especially if you include two weeks
    of parking) was a limo service.  They showed up with one of those
    stretch jobs, and drove me into Boston.  Two weeks later, they showed
    up with a smaller version and drove me from Manchester to my home.
    
    Total cost for both trips, generous tips included, was about $100.
    The perception might be a lot of money was spent; the reality, at 
    least in this case, is that a lot of money wasn't spent, appearances
    to the contrary.
    					andrew 

��   <<< Note 3110.9 by OKFINE::KENAH "Every old sock meets an old shoe..." >>>
��                    -< Limos simply aren't that expensive >-

��    The least expensive way to travel (especially if you include two weeks
��    of parking) was a limo service.  They showed up with one of those
��    stretch jobs, and drove me into Boston.  Two weeks later, they showed
��    up with a smaller version and drove me from Manchester to my home.
��    
��    Total cost for both trips, generous tips included, was about $100.

    It would have been cheaper for you to rent a car each way. 
    The digital rate for a compact is about $28, with no drop
    off charge.  Add a little bit for gas and tax (but there's
    no tax on rentals originating in NH).  This is by far the
    cheapest for parties > 1.

    It looks like you're in ZKO; the tara is an avis agent, so
    it's hardly inconvienient to pick up a car there.

    I often do this, rather than pay for parking at logan.

��    The perception might be a lot of money was spent; the reality, at 
��    least in this case, is that a lot of money wasn't spent, appearances
��    to the contrary.
    I guess I disagree.  $60 < $100 by about 40%

    True, renting a car might be cheaper -- except I had to be in Boston by
    7:30 AM, and I seriously doubt that the AVIS desk at the Tara would be
    open before 6 AM. So, I'd have to rent the car for two days -- now
    we're up to $90 and the convenience factor has plummeted.  Besides, I
    wasn't going to the airport, I was going to a downtown hotel.  Add $18
    parking, and we're OVER $100. Oh, by the way, how do I get to the Tara?  
    
    					andrew

    re: .11 >>Oh, by the way, how do I get to the Tara?
    
    You should crawl on your hands and knees as penance for taking a limo.
    And wear a hair shirt.

    >re: .11 >>Oh, by the way, how do I get to the Tara?
    >
    >You should crawl on your hands and knees as penance for taking a limo.
    >And wear a hair shirt.
    
    		Okay -- just checking!

��   <<< Note 3110.11 by OKFINE::KENAH "Every old sock meets an old shoe..." >>>
��                  -< Still cheaper, and MUCH more convenient >-

��    True, renting a car might be cheaper -- except I had to be in Boston by
��    7:30 AM, and I seriously doubt that the AVIS desk at the Tara would be
��    open before 6 AM. So, I'd have to rent the car for two days -- now
��    we're up to $90 and the convenience factor has plummeted.  Besides, I
��    wasn't going to the airport, I was going to a downtown hotel.  Add $18
��    parking, and we're OVER $100. Oh, by the way, how do I get to the Tara?  

    Try renting the car the night before, you have it for a 24
    hour day.  Then you only have to pay one day rental. So
    basically not knowing how to get to the tara is your
    justification!  Walk?  Get a rid with a coworker leaving for
    the day?  Ask security to drive you to the edge of digital
    property.  Take a damn cab?  Did you ask for mileage
    reimbursement when going to TTB?

    In .9, you write:

��    The least expensive way to travel (especially if you include two weeks
��    of parking) was a limo service.  They showed up with one of those

    I dispute this.  I don't think anyone disagrees that a limo
    is more convienient.  If money is no object, I'll take mine
    with an open bar and a couple of hookers.  

    Just don't try and tell us that a limo was the cheapest
    solution.  Digital is on the verge of bankruptcy with cost
    savings like yours.

    Don't they have taxis in New England?
    
    Laurie from 'Old' England.

    There use to be a twenty-four hour cab sevice in Nashua. Would it not
    have been possible to reserve this car the night before, pick it up at
    6 am drop it off in Boston when your flight leaves. Wouldn`t that be 1
    day rental? or is there day less/more than 24 hours?

    *If* you include the employee's time in the cost factor, I believe the
    limo is cheaper (or closer in cost) than renting a car in the scenario
    (and the cost factors) given a few notes back.  You have to pick up the
    rental and drop it off.  You could presumeably spend two hours in
    transit picking up and dropping off the vehicle, so you can use it for
    one hour of commuting.
    
    Anyway, we started to discuss the value of transporting Digital
    customers....
    
    Jim

I've never picked up an Avis car at the Tara or dropped one off at Logan,
but judging from my other Avis experiences, I suspect that it takes at most
half an hour to pick it up and 10 minutes to drop it off.  It might take
a little longer in the other direction.

	  There is an old saying that starts " for want of a nail the shoe
	was lost. For want of a shoe the horse was lost ... It is the little
	expenses, if used properly, that will win customers. Too often
	have the attitude that we make the best products so all we have to do
	is wait and the world will beat a path to our door. This is wrong.
	95% (or more) of the potential customers would like a little attention.
	Maybe if we sent a driver (not a stretched limo) out to bring customers
	to a demo, more would find our door. The cost of a driver and a
	luxury car is relatively minor compare to even the cost of a sales-
	person's day. Below is an example of how a "professional" company
	closed a sale. Note: the total value of the sale was under $100k.

	 About 10 years I had to go to Canada to discuss a software proposal
	and to look at a demo for a client. The vendor had a driver pick 
	me up at my house at 5:30 am for a 7 am flight. There was coffee
	and pastry for me for the ride up. The driver took me right to the 
	terminal and handed me my plane ticket (paid for by the vendor). 
	When I landed in Montreal(sp), another driver meet me and took me to 
	the vendor. I arrived at the vendor at about 9:30 am with a clear head 
	and prepared notes as to what I expected. After a 2 hr meeting and 
	demo we went out to lunch. During lunch I described what my client's 
	terms were. After lunch they had a driver bring me to the airport to 
	catch a 2 pm flight. The salesman and execs then returned to their 
	office to work on their proposal. 
	  I arrived home at about 6:00, suffering from less stress than a 
	typical day at the office, with an evening's work of reviewing the 
	technical documents from the vendor. The next morning my client and
	I meet to review the proposal that the vendor faxed that morning. It 
	took less than 2 hours before we had decided to purchase the software.  
	The decision was easy not because I got "the luxury treatment" but
	because I arrived at the vendor's site with a clear head, with
	my clients technical requirements in hand, given a complete run through
	on a fully functioning system, and to have immediate access to 
	the developers.
	  To my knowledge, my client is stilling using the same vendor. 
	I would estimate it cost the vendor about $500 to $700 (including 
	lunch and airfare) to finalize a $80,000 order. 
	  In contrast, a friend of mine was looking to replace their IBM 
	System/36 a few years back. After several months of sales calls 
	the DIGITAL salesman gave him directions from Hartford CT to the
	demo site in Marlboro. After driving around Marlboro for over an hour
	looking for the site, he gave up and went back to his office. Had the
	salesman hired a driver, and went with this potential client he may
	have made the sale. He didn't and they now have an AS400. 

    Since:
    	- the need of a limo has been well justified
    	- it is a relatively insignificant fraction of the amount 
          of the money the customer is putting about
    
    How about we ask the customer to pick _us_ up in _their_ limo? ;^)

    I INSIST that customers use a limo service for formal visits.
    
    The alternatives - account manager hires car and drives customer.  we
    have had loads of account managers lost and arriving hours late at
    appointments.  Customer hires car and drives - ditto.  Taxi - you must
    be kidding (Boston taxi drivers typically do not speak English, have
    filthy cabs and do not know anything of the world outside 128.  Van -
    not really.  Public transport - ha, ha - we actually had one customer
    from India take a Peter Pan bus to Shrewsbury, got dropped off on route
    9 then walked up the hill to SHR.
    
    The limos really are not a big deal, I've often asked for cars to look
    less ostentatious (some customers hate limos) but the limo companies
    typically only offer the stretch limo to cater for US tastes and to use
    for weddings etc. on weekends.
    
    Axel

    When engineers go visiting companies, to arrange to buy technology,
    sell technology, work on joint development or whatever, we always
    (in my experience) rent cars and drive.  I guess engineers are better
    at finding their way around than "customers"? :-)  Surely the real reason
    for the stretch limos is to make the customers feel "special" and
    more willing to write checks to us.  That's valid, where it works.
    For the customers who find this annoying, I suggest you investigate
    the "airport limo" services.  These companies provide door-to-door
    service to or from the airport, and are fairly prompt and efficient.
    Their "limos" are actually vans.  The drivers speak English, too.
    
    	Enjoy,
    	Larry

    I guess I need to clarify - I work with Asia/Pacific.  Our customers
    and accompanying sales reps or managers often have not been to the US
    before, suffer jetlag, speak English poorly or not at all, are not used
    to driving on the right (wrong .-)) side of the road etc.  The limo
    service allows us to track where the customer is and make sure they get
    to the appointed spot on time.
    
    -.1 is right, of course we also do it to make them feel that we care
    about them and want to make them feel special.  In selling quite often
    how the message is packaged is as important as the message itself, so
    if we wrap an Alpha benchmark result into a limo/helicopter package
    then we are that much more likely to get the sale.
    
    I don't think the standard limo service vans live up to how we want
    customers to perceive Digital.  Especially from Asia/Pacific, because
    of the cost of travel we get relatively senior visitors - government
    ministers, CEO's, heads of departments.  These people expect chauffeur
    driven transport and would take it as a slight if we offered something
    less.
    
    I have often asked for minivans or sedans as an alternative to the
    stretch limos to make the whole thing look less ostentatious, but as
    explained before the limo companies are unwilling to provide this and
    tell me that the cost would be the same anyway.
    
    Axel