Conference 7.286::digital

    UNIX Marketing is extremely active in the US (and in the UK
    too.)  There doesn't seem to be any VMS marketing.  I suggest
    sending a polite inquiry to Gail Grant (DECPA::GRANT), who is
    heavily involved with UNIX Marketing.
    
    					Steve

    I agree.  I'll add acouple to this list:
    In the May 1, 1994 issue of Network Computing is an article titled: 
    	Are New HUBs Smart Enough To Be Your Network Management Backbone?
    
    They list ALL the vendors of HUB-based products.  DEC is in there with
    ONE_LINE and we looking like dead beats.  They don't even mention if
    its the DEChub 90 or DEChub 900 Multi-Switch, but the entry looks like
    they're talking about the DEChub 90 as it indicates that the product
    requires ONE SLOT for management.  However, it list the LATEST AND
    GREATEST BY Synoptics, that's barely shipping, e.g., System 5000.
    
    A recent magazine did an article on RAID products and our entry was
    they but I thought alittle weak e.g.; StorageWorks RAID 110.
    
    Then on the other side I saw an article in the Imaging Magazine that
    talked about RAID storage and Digital was positioned better than
    everyone else.  Our flexibility was well ILLUSTRATED.  I posted a note
    in the Storage_Presenters conference indicating that the individual who
    contributed to this should make a glossy available to customers.  I was
    surprised we were in such a specialty magazine.
    
    I'm tired of all the internal mails and notes regarding the fastest TPC
    numbers from RDB.  Yes we ALL in digital know all about it.  How about
    marketing it to the outside world.  
    
    There's a note in here regarding marketing to ourselves.  Which is
    really true.  Who cares - how about marketing it to the WORLD.
    
    	
    	good observation
    
    	
    	 kam
    

    I subscribe to a monthly electronics hobbyist magazine.
    
    	Periodically it features articles on technology.
    
    	In the last year it has run items on the computer industry, and
    in particular home computers, and even more particularly PC's.
    
    	The magazine recently ran a survey among it's readers on what
    machines they had access to or owned.
    
    	The top machine was IBM-PC or clone, the second was a Sinclair
    Spectrum (17% share). Other WELL KNOWN names such as Sun Apple, HP,
    MAC, BBC, Acorn....etc. all figured in there somewhere.
    
    	DIGITAL/DEC was nowhere to be seen.
    
    	The latest issue of the magazine carries an article on "The quiet
    revolution" and concentrates on the PC chip development. The Intel
    range including the Pentium figure prominently. The article also
    surveys a propose "POWER-PC" chip being developed by some consortium or
    other, and discusses the impact and control of the PC market that these
    chips will have for the forseeable future!
    
    	The item includes a comparison table of specifications between the
    two breeds of chip!
    
    	Compared with the ALPHA chip, these are carthorse generation...but
    yet THERE IS STILL NO MENTION OF DIGITAL!
    
    	Are we really serious about being a major player in the next
    generation of computer companies or are we going to be an "also-ran"?
    
    	Where is DIGITAL marketing? It certainly doesnt seem to figure
    alongside IBM, or HP, or Sun, or Apple, or Macintosh, or......
    
    	I want to see DIGITAL instead of pink panthers or "Intel inside" on
    my television, in my newspaper, and on the wallpaper if necessary!
    
    	There is another sort of paper which gets a lot of exposure, but
    delicacy and decorum prevent me from mentioning it in this forum.
    
    				Dave Clark
    			(Rarin' to go, but frustrated by inertia!)
                 

    Press relations is part of the Corp, Marcom group, now a direct 
    report to Bob Palmer (Charlie Halloran VP).  Us folks in Marketing
    have been pushing for help/support/whatever to fix this, but due
    to reduced resources, internal process focus, and the need to be
    "consistant" across the company (read...no individual focus on
    specific products or markets), we're just not getting what we need.
    Maybe Bob Palmer will hear from the right folks and unshackle the
    marketing/pr resources and let us do the right thing.  
    
    Just 1 person's opinion
    
    Mark
    

    I was surfing  in CSERVE last night... DECPCI forum...  found two notes
    from guys who had seen demos of LINKWORKS.  They LOVED what they saw. 
    But, they couldn't find ANYONE who had it or knew anything about it!
    
    Go fish!

    re: last note, good point.
    
    
    
    I guess we can all jump on the bandwagon and bash marketing, but what
    will be gained. Why not use this note as a forum to suggest some ideas.
    We have some really good products out there today ( example Linkworks
    teamlinks). These products have won industry awards. I've yet to see
    promotional material using this to our advantage.

    With Comdex here in atlanta, I have not seen one commercial on TV,
    heard one commercial on radio, or seen one ad in the airport, about
    Digital.
    
    We have R.C.I. (rectal cranial inversion.)

    The LINKWORKS Demo disk can be obtained from the Nortboro Warehouse.
    You either order via LOS or send an ALL-IN-1 Mail to ORDER @NRO. The
    order number is EC-N 0650-48.
    
    Regards
    Margit
    

    Re .5, i did get a copy of the LINKWORKS demo kit mentioned in .8 (how
    and why, i really don't know or remember) and have not really found any
    use for it.  If it can be forwarded to the right person/customer,
    please send me the post mail address and i'll make it happen.
    
    --svb

How about getting this demo into the customers hands directly ? I can think of
a few ways (All used in the industry)
a) Put it on the gateway/Compuserve, simtel shadows, etc.
b) Send it out by mail to interested customers.
c) Setup a 1-800 number for people to request it.
d) Setup an internet address for people to request it.
f) Advertise all the above.

	Just my 10E-2$.

		Yaacov

    re .4
    
    You mentioned that marketing must be "consistant" across the company,
    i.e. not focused on an specific product or industry.  Is this really
    true?  Marketing only promotes only the company as a whole?  If true,
    this explains alot (in my mind).
    
    The real question is: What is the goals/policies of Digital Marketing?

	Re: -5, please understand that LinkWorks product marketing 
communicates on a frequent basis with a lengthy list of territory-based
marketing individuals and teams. They, in turn, deploy the basic building
blocks that you see below. This has been the case througout FY94 in the
case of LinkWorks (formerly ObjectWorks). 

The attached mail of May 9th is an example.

Regarding the macro issues folks are addressing here, all I can say is 
things will be changed in completely new ways as Pesatori acts.

- Don Harbison         
==========================================================================
	09-MAY-1994
         
         
         To All:
         
         We are pleased to announce the availability of the new 
         LinkWorks video: "Introduction to LinkWorks", a new LinkWorks 
         Information Sheet and a new LinkWorks success story.
         
         "Introduction to LinkWorks" is orderable via the integrated 
         Repository, part number is VI561L.
         
         This video is **product focussed**; under ten minutes 
         (9:20:00). It is intended to help sales and customers quickly 
         understand what LinkWorks is and how it can be used to 
         benefit their business.  
         
         We recommend that this video be used to help qualify a 
         prospect. The call-to-action suggests the LinkWorks Demo 
         Diskette, or you can follow up with the LinkWorks Technical 
         Overview video (Part Number VI5608), for a more in-depth 
         discussion/demonstration of the framework.
         
         These videos are in English and orderable in NTSC or PAL 
         formats.
         
         The LinkWorks Information Sheet has a new part number: 
         EC-F2953-48. This is a completely new Information Sheet 
         running a total of 6 pages, with product screen shots, 
         and graphics. This is the primary piece of print collateral 
         for LinkWorks.
         
         Finally, a new success story profiling LinkWorks at Siemens 
         Integra will be available shortly. Order this new success 
         story under part number EC-N3419-48.	
         
         Attached is the updated listing of all LinkWorks program 
         materials as of May 9.
         
         - Don Harbison
           LinkWorks Marketing


Item                                    Part Number     Location

DEMO DISKETTES:
Demo Diskette, English			EC-N0650-48	LOS

Demo Diskette, French			EC-N3192-48	LOS

Demo Diskette, Italian			EC-N3191-48	LOS

Demo Diskette, Spanish			EC-N3193-48	LOS

Demo Diskette, German			EC-N3194-48	LOS

PRINT COLLATERAL:
Information Sheet			EC-F2953-48	LOS

Customer Folder				EC-N0649-49	LOS

-- REPRINTS:
"The Four Musketeers"
Reprint, Computerworld - 12/93		EC-2935-48	LOS

"The Object-Oriented Enterprise" 
Reprint, DEC Professional - 12/93	EC-Y2936-48	LOS

Advertising reprint, (sky divers)			ZKO

-- CUSTOMER TESTIMONIALS:
Siemens Integra				EC-N3419-48	LOS

VW-GEDAS				EA-A2577-48	LOS

Bank Of Montreal			EA-A2560-48	LOS


VIDEOS:
Introduction to LinkWorks		VI561L		IR

Technical Overview			VI5608		IR
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
HOW TO ORDER...

LOS = Literature Ordering System
IR = Integrated Repository

To place an order from the Integrated repository type the following:

VTX IR <return>
PF1 7 <return>
Part number <return>
1 (to place an order) <return>
1 (file format) <return>
Badge Number <return>
Tab through areas, fill in quantity and shipping address PF1 Enter

To place an order from the Integrated Repository type the following:

VTX LOS <return>
Badge number PF1 Enter
Verify your shipping address (Y PF1 Enter)
Enter the part number PF1 Enter
Enter Quantity PF1 Enter
PF1 Enter (to review your order)
Enter (to confirm)
Indicate any special instructions PF1 Enter

To request LinkWorks advertisment reprints please send mail directly to:

					Alison Pisecco @ZKO
					A1VAX::PISECCO

    
    It'd be nice to have somewhere available to keep 
    demonstration materials, slides etc. and then a distribution list to
    keep people informed of additions.  Groups could put slides or whatever
    in there that sales,marketing could look at both for products shipping
    and versions in development.  People could give feed back on what was
    clear and what wasn't and tell us in Engineering when we fail and why
    we failed.
    
    Maybe there is a notes conference already set up for this, or maybe
    this is too much of a niche to bother about?
    
    If there was one place to go to find out what we in enginneering are
    doing then maybe it'd be easier for people to keep informed.
    
    Just a thought.
    
    Mike

I agree with .11.  The bit about marketing having to be consistent across the
country seems strange.

We've already heard one complaint about the lack of advertising in Atlanta, 
and I would like to add that I also think that Atlanta could stand to learn
more about Digital.

It seems that Digital is only well known in the northeast, where the 
economy is bad (pardon the generalization).  Atlanta's economy is one of the 
fastest growing in the US!

Is there anyone in marketing who could tell us what it would take to 
get, say, a billboard on the 285 Loop around Atlanta?

I think something like this could really have a positive impact.


Roseanne

1. Employees complain they haven't seen this or that advantage promoted. 

A1.1 Very often they are promoted but the complainer isn't the target audience.
A1.2 To satisfy the complainer we circulate the promotion internally.

2. Employees complain we only promote internally.

A2. See A1.2

3. Nobody has heard of Digital, we're not seen as a major player, we don't 
   get enough press editorial.

A3. Global brand awareness launched.

4. We waste our money on brand awareness and don't do enough product 
   specific promotion.

A4. See 3.

5. Many employees think advertising=marketing.

A5. See A1.2

Dave ;-)

    Dave,
    
    Sorry, but this non-member of the "target audience" says that the
    results belie the words... Our marketing isn't working, and soon, nor
    will we be.
    
    And that's a fact.
    
    Laurie.

    The need to be consistant is in the press/advertising/marcom area,
    not in specific product marketing.  Remember, the MARCOM/PR/advertising
    function is a direct report to Bob Palmer, and the Marketing function
    is under Enrico Pesatori, another report to Bob Palmer.  The single
    point of connectivity between MARCOM & Marketing is Bob Palmer, from
    an organization perspective.  MARCOM is not owned by marketing.
    
    Mark
    

>    	I want to see DIGITAL instead of pink panthers or "Intel inside" on
>    my television, in my newspaper, and on the wallpaper if necessary!
    
>    	There is another sort of paper which gets a lot of exposure, but
>    delicacy and decorum prevent me from mentioning it in this forum.
 
I asked before but got no response.  How much did the branding deal cost?
How much would an add in the above mentioned magazine cost?

For $2M/year (or less) we could get heavy television and print exposure on a 
weekly basis reaching millions of viewers each week via Winston Cup racing.
Laugh all you want.  Especially when Terry Labonte & Kelloggs advertize their
cerial during prime time.  Someone in marketting should give Bobby Allison
a call soon.  I have his phone number.  

I think someone in marketting should seriously look into this idea, even
if nothing comes out of it.  At least you'd get an idea of the amount
of exposure and type of publicity we'd be provided with.  IBM is already
playing footsies with the owners of New Hampshire International Speedway.
If someone (from marketting) wants to hook up with the Allison team, mail
me.

Regards,
Mike       

    So with your proposal New Hampshire, or even the GMA gets good ad
    coverage...
    
    What about the rest of the known universe???

Mark,

	Sounds like you understand this stuff but don't you think
	a statement like "MARCOM is not owned by Marketing" (although
	perhaps currently true), is more than a trifle disingenuous?

	You are at least a marketeer whom we recognise as such
	- tell us how it SHOULD be and help us implement it.  While 
	my energy/faith lasts, I'll support you. 

/Chris.

    > So with your proposal New Hampshire, or even the GMA gets good ad
    > coverage...

    If this was directed at me (racing):  I mention New Hampshire
    international speedway because it's in Digitals back yard.  This is
    also the first super speedway built in the United States since the
    late 60's.  Most teams are based in Charlotte North Carolina (my
    neighbor being the exception :^)).  They race 30 times in almost every 
    major market in the US.  The sport is followed weekly by millions of
    normal folks, not only in the main stream media, but in special
    magazines/TV shows.  Each time we'd be mentioned, it'd be a form of 
    advertising.  Someone wanted to know about the cost of a billboard around 
    285 in Atlanta.  Howabout a rolling billboard (semi transporter) that 
    travels  over 250,000 miles a year around the US?  How about another 
    transporter that carries a car stricktly for show wherever we tell it to go.
    Imagine if CompUSA started carrying our PC's, we'd park the show car
    out in front of specific stores.  This is all part of the deal.  Just
    to pick up Bobby Allison would be a major news event (Fortune <whatever
    we are now> company to sponsor Allison Motorsports).  

    Bobby Allison is second in name recognition to Richard Petty.  You
    know who he is, right?  Bobby Allison would be an excellent person
    to be affiliated with.  I mentioned IBM & NHIS because computers are
    just beginning to be seen in NASCAR racing for use in Data Acquisition
    and team managment.  Imagine being able to build an affiliation this
    way?  Imagine if Digital got a contract to computerize NASCAR
    facilities rather than IBM?
    
    > What about the rest of the known universe???
    With the advent of satellite, this stuff is being beamed all over the
    world and is picking up a following in Europe & Australia very quickly.
    Winston Cup racing is the #1 watched motorsport in the world according
    to Goodyear which tracks television viewership.
    
    Being involved in Winston Cup racing would target the proper audience
    (customer).  The normal working stiff.  Indy car is too expensive
    and tends to caiter to the Champaign crowd.   Watch the Coca~Cola 600
    this weekend.  It's 2nd behind attendance and viewership behind the
    Indy 500.  You know what _that_ is right?  If digital sponsored a
    car, we'd be having a 4.5 hour commercial Sunday afternoon.  It all
    comes with the price of entry (the previously mentioned $2M).
    
    Mike

    Yes Mike the question was directed in your direction.
    
    My point was not that speedway ads were a bad idea, per se, just that
    if that's where the ad money goes then we've still got a large i.e.
    much more >50% of our marketplace, to cover.
    
    Now if you'd picked soccer and the World Cup then I suspect that the
    coverage would have been reversed - lots of interest outside the US and
    not much in what you call Digital's backyard.

re.16:

What results? In the UK we've been concentrating on Alpha AXP, and I hear that
our Alpha AXP business is growing at record rates. I thought our problems
were mainly around supply and the switch from low volume/high margin to high
volume/low margin. Also, still in the UK, we've pulled some marketing programmes
because of supply constraints (we can sell more than we can build).

Dave.

    > My point was not that speedway ads were a bad idea, per se, just that
    > if that's where the ad money goes then we've still got a large i.e.
    > much more >50% of our marketplace, to cover.
    
    The add is on the car, and transporter (and on fans who wear shirts/
    hats/anything else you can think of).  The car will be in NH in July.
    They were just in San Fransisco, they're in Charlotte this weekend.
    They'll be in Michigan, Arizona, Florida, Dover, Pennsylvania in the
    coming weeks.  The "add" is the car/team itself and it travels in
    various forms all over the world, either phsically, or via the media.
    
    The "show car(s)" part is also nice, because Digital can send the car
    wherever they want.  Like to Comdex, or a customer in Los Angeles.
    They can also have cool adds on TV based around this, rather than those
    goofy piano adds we currently run on A&E and Discovery.  Have you
    ever seen that Rusty Wallace commercial (Miller Genuine Draft, knocking
    down the speedway)?  That sort of grabs you....  "if it were any faster
    you'd have to bolt it to your desk"... no kidding, especially if the
    car is crashing through your TV screen at you.  It'll get your
    attention.
    
    Digital?  Oh ya, the #12 Alpha/AXP Thunderbird, they make computers
    that blow away the Pentium, right?   

>    > What about the rest of the known universe???
>    With the advent of satellite, this stuff is being beamed all over the
>    world and is picking up a following in Europe & Australia very quickly.
>    Winston Cup racing is the #1 watched motorsport in the world according
>    to Goodyear which tracks television viewership.
    
    	The most popular sport in France, both in number of participants
    and number of spectators, is cycle racing. After that probably comes
    soccer and rugby. Any type of motor racing is a minority sport anyway.
    Within that minority interest, there is the Monte Carlo rally, the
    Paris-Dakkar rally, F1 race tracks, ...  I had never heard of any of
    the names you mentioned apart from Digital, IBM and Coca~Cola. IBM and
    Coca~Cola have both advertised on French television. The only mention
    of Digital is that the local news carries the latest number of
    redundancies, without even mentioning the business the company is in.
    
    	I have two satellite dishes, but have never noticed any U.S. sports
    on any of the channels that I watch. It may be on one of the pay
    channels for which I can't get the decryption in France. No French
    person would watch it anyway unless you provided simultaneous
    translation of the commentary into French. It is unlikely the car you
    are talking about will ever be seen by me unless it competes in the
    Monte Carlo rally and is therefore on the local French and Italian
    channels.
    
    	What you want is an American cyclist in the Tour de France wearing
    DEC logo, and prepared to talk (in French) about how the aerodynamic
    design of his bicycle was done on a DEC computer.
    
    	All right, you have given an east coast U.S. parochial view. I have
    given a French parochial view. There is probably a German parochial
    view.
    
    	Imagine if I had the slightest clue what a NASCAR was!

How about gardening?  We could put ads on bags of manure.

    RE: .23
    
    The Company's results Dave. If marketing were working, we'd be making
    money like HP. I'll accept your word that we're doing better, but only
    because I know and trust you. However, it seems too little, too late.
    Outside of work, I see almost nothing about Digital. In the last few
    months, I've seen more adverts in the UK press than I've seen in the
    last ten years put together; that's good. Yes, things are getting
    better, but we aren't out of the woods yet.
    
    Forgive the cynicism, but I heard today that another friend has
    resigned in frustration and taken skills we need to a competitor.
    
    Laurie.

    The topic is not now discussing, "Where is marketing?", but "Where is
    merchandising?"  That's a subset.  It's one of the stronger parts of
    Digital's mareting function; at least we have someone doing it.
    
    Our problems are not caused by a lack of name recognition among Winston
    fans.  Our problems are caused by the other side of marketing:  Product
    definition, positioning, and planning.  We don't build what the
    customer wants, or when we do build it we don't have enough because
    we're too busy building the wrong thing.
    
    All the advertising in the world won't help that.

    The real question is: What do we put in the ads. What product/s do 
    we offer that the mass consumer needs and/or can buy in a store today.
    
    How many of the noters in this conference have bought a Digital
    product. I think we make great products, but this note got me 
    wondering why I never bought anything from Digital even with
    employee discount.
    
    Take a inventory of equipment you own and I bet we find that we 
    own more Apples, IBM, Compaqs, etc. than DEC products.
    
    Just food for throught.
    
    Jim

    re: -.1
    
    
    I recently bought a DECpc XL 466d2 with CD ROM, Soundboard, speakers,
    and modem.
    
    Even though the PCatalog says "your Digital PC is delivered fully
    preconfigured and ready to run!", etc.  Digital refused to install the
    sound board and the sales rep told me that it was easy to do myself.
    It was my fault for not questioning her about that and refusing to buy
    it unless it was full configured, etc.  After all, I had installed a
    mouse and a modem on my 286 a couple of years ago.
    
    The soundboard was made to be sold in Germany as the box was all German
    language, including I assume the list of what was supposed to be in the box
    as referred to by the instructions, one version of which was in English.
    
    Well, to make a long story shory, it is not so easy to install a sound
    board when the instructions with the board and with the Digital system
    assume a lot more knowledge than I had.  After, struggling for an hour
    or so, I got the thing in correctly, I thought.
    
    When I booted up the system it no longer saw the hard drive, so I
    removed the board and tried again.  Still no hard drive.  I called the
    800 number and the person on duty spent about 5 minutes asking me
    serial numbers, call back numbers, symptoms, etc. and then informed me
    that someone would call me back during Digital's normal working hours.
    
    Since it was Saturday morning and I normally work during normal working
    hours, I saw no good solution for a ~$4,000. computer that didn't work.
    The following Monday morning I called the Digital 800 number and told
    them that I wanted to avail myself of the 30 day return policy.  The
    person on the phone seemed somewhat disturbed that I would be retruning
    it and asked me why.  When I told her, she said that she would put down
    the reason as "didn't meet customer's needs".
    
    The sad thing is that, two of my friends were in the market for PCs and
    I had told them to wait until they had seen mine before ordering one.
    Unfortunately, I'm going to have to buy from some company that offers 
    PCs "fully preconfigured and ready to run", etc.
    
    The worst is that I charged it on my Master Card and it has not yet
    been credited, so I'm out ~$45 to ship it back and ~$40 interest
    charges to date.  
    
    No my friends, we're better off not being a household name in PCs. 
    We're not ready to compete against Dell, Zeos and the rest in the home
    market.  Perhaps if we sold them thru Lechmere, CompUSA, Circuit
    City,or places where they could be configured we could compete, we're
    not gonna do it the way it's working now.
    

    Wait, it gets worse.  You're also out a $100 restocking fee.
    
    				Steve

re .31

I *really* hope you're joking, Steve.

    A good friend (the head of the physics department at a local ivy-league
    college) bought a new computer for his personal use about two months
    ago. From Dell. A completely custom configuration, with a SCSI card
    they don't usually use and a specific sound card. 
    
    It came in about a week and a half, and everything was installed and
    configured.
    
    He needed to get the serial numbers from the modules in the system
    so that he could fill out the warranty cards. (if he had R'd the FM,
    he'd know that Dell had provided him with a list of all the serial
    numbers, but that's another story..)  Anyway, somehow he managed to
    incorrectly seat the PCI graphics card in the process, and the system
    wouldn't work.. even after several reseats.. 
    
    So he called Dell. Told them what happened, and that he basically had
    fat-fingered the system. they said "No problem; we'll have service out
    there tomorrow to fix it." Service tech showed up on schedule the next
    morning, replaced both the motherboard and the graphics card ("I don't
    care which is broken, I'm supposed to get you up and running"). No
    charge.
    
    So, given the fact that we can't seem to even be able to configure a
    system, we've a long way to go. When the customer service rep doesn't
    put down the correct reason for the return, we won't even start the
    journey.
    
    ...tom

    
    Most PC and Network service companys work this way....   and almost
    never have the problem of being paid over 30 days.
    
    bc 

    This string touches a note that has long troubled me. We seem to
    frequently lie to ourselves. 
    
    We put return reasons that will be acceptable to 'the system' not the
    truth.
    
    We keep patting our selves on the back for the fatest chip in the
    world, when we often loose benchmarks.
    
    We tout the fatest PC in the world, when it runs PC software slower
    that a common 386.
    
    We talk about our 'world class' unix when we lack even the basic system
    management tools all the rest of the industry has.
    
    We talk about our 'price competitive' PC's when we are well over the
    price in any major computer store, forget about mail order prices.
    
    And we tell these lies often enough, that all we believe they are
    truth, so we dont fix the real problems. Anyone that points out the
    truth is called 'negative' or 'not a team player'
    
    When its finally over here, and the real truth is written in history,
    this will be a company that went to the end believing that the Emperor
    was beautifully clothed. 

re: .35

Long ago, someone in this notesfile pegged this pretty well by saying
"We've been breathing too much of our own exhaust."

Lee

    "Snorting your own exhaust"
    
    I first heard it from John Manzo many years ago.. before it became
    clear it applied locally..

    Re: .32
    
    No, I'm not.  Read the EPP terms and conditions carefully.
    
    				Steve

    I'm another frustrated DEC purchaser... I wound up buying from "the
    other guy... another mail-order place" 
    
    I did buy a PC for my mother from DEC.  It was not configured, but
    since I live, eat, and breath PCs that was ok... and I'm happy to
    report that she is receiving excellent service from her local DEC
    service rep in Modesto, Calif.
    
    My brand-X has never needed service.
    
    tony

RE: .35

>    We talk about our 'price competitive' PC's when we are well over the
>    price in any major computer store, forget about mail order prices.

And we even spend precious Digital money to advertise this fact:

Page 38 of the May 1994 PC Catalog shows a 340MB IDE disk (64KB cache,
14ms seek, p/n FR-PCXAR-CJ) for $499.

Page 37 of the same catalog shows a Maxtor 345MB IDE disk (64/256KB cache,
14ms seek, p/n DT-A2500-MH) for $359.


Further, my latest copy of PC Magazine has multiple 340MB IDE disks with
various amounts of cache and various seek times, and the prices are averaging
around $285.  And these are for Seagate, Connor, Maxtor, etc.

Sigh...

-- Ken Moreau

    A "restocking" fee is unprecedented in my experience as a consumer,
    and I'd be hopping mad if anyone tried to charge me for restocking.

    I have billed customers for re-stocking charges and certain cancelation
    charges if canceled within blah blah days of shipment. We have
    collected on them because it is in the terms and conditions that
    digital sets forth.
    
    Ray (in admin)

It's a bit late now, but you shouldn't be out any money at all -- at
least not without a fight.   

Step 1.  Notify your credit card company (by phone; they will ask
 	 for a follow-up letter from you) that you dispute the original
  	 charge -- to the full amount.  This stops them asking you
	 for interest.

Step 2:	 Nag the vendor for a refund.  They will undoubtedly try and
	 avoid repaying shipping charges, etc etc.  Tell them that 
	 you have no intention of paying shipping changes for
	 defective goods.  Escalate until happy.

Throughout Step 2, keep the credit card company informed (e.g., if
you get a partial refund, call up the credit card company to tell
them you *still* have a dispute, and why).

--

Don't think that the situation is necessarily better elsewhere 
though.  I tried to buy a Zeos system at the end of March.  I am
now stuck in step 2 (which is why I am an expert :-).

Btw, I can just about see a "restocking fee" as being legitimate
if the customer simply changes his mind, but NEVER when the equipment
fails to perform as advertised, or is not delivered in the state
in which it was supposed to be delivered, etc.

    Is that our margin -- charging to take back unsatisfactory product?

 Employee Purchase ...                                       U.S. DESKTOP
 
 Terms and Conditions                                        Date: 31-Jan-1994
 
                                                              Screen  19 of 23

 RETURNS

 ALL CUSTOMER INITIATED EPP RETURNS ARE SUBJECT TO A $100 RESTOCKING
 FEE.  Employees requesting return authorization of any products for
 credit must request approval from Desktop Direct within 30 days
 of Invoice date.


According to "Computer Shopper", restocking fees are not unusual, though they
are far from universal.

You might be able to get the fee waived.

					Steve

I don't know what the outside policy is.  I think that recently we added
a "30 day money-back guarantee", which would imply no restocking charge.

			Steve

    Don't assume 30 day money-back means no restocking charge. I
    recently read about a case in PC World's "consumer advocate" section
    (don't recall what they call it) about a mail-order vendor whose
    fine print did include an n% restocking fee as part of the 30-day
    return policy.

    If the equip. is defective then there was no restocking charge BUT a
    substitute was sent or the customer was satisfied. I too had an issue
    with a product purchased through EPP. I simply told DECdircet that I
    would issue my own RA # and issue the credit myself....I had it that
    night and returned the next day without restocking charges.

    I'm telling you, if this was legal Digital could make a lot of money
    shipping empty boxes and charging suck -- er, customers $100 to take
    'em back.  Of course, we'd also make a lousy name for ourselves,
    but that's not stopping the current policy, is it?

    From UK LIVE-WIRE:
                                                     
    >digital                   03-Jun-94                      LIVE WIRE
    >                  DIGITAL NEWS                   
    >
    >
    >    HOBBLING THE COMPETITION
    >
    >    Digital's Alpha marketing team are handing out plastic pens that
    >    feature a race between two horses, one labelled 64 and the other 32.
    >    Horse number 64 always wins
    >
    >    Computing, London. 2nd June 1994
    
    I like this one! Isn't it good marketing?
    
    Public request:
    
    Is there somebody who can send me some of these pens to give to
    my dear Customers?
    
    Many thanks in advance!!!
    
    Andrea Antonangeli @MLN

>    Is there somebody who can send me some of these pens to give to
>    my dear Customers?

Contact Judith Grindal @REO

Dave.

    <<< Note 3108.53 by VANGA::KERRELL "Handle with care - aging fast" >>>
                 -< Imagine being the one without Alpha AXP >-
    
    
    	Shouldn't that read:
    
    Imagine being the one without an Alpha AXP Pen.
    
    				Malcolm.

I was in England for UK DECUS and they were handing out these pens, as well
as car window stickers with the tagline "Imagine being the one without
Alpha AXP"; I've got one of these on my car now.  This tagline was the focus
of a superb ad campaign that positioned AXP as being far more powerful for
solving business needs than the competition.  The ads were clever and
attractive.  I have several examples posted outside my office.

I've also got a few Post-It pads with the tagline along with a background
drawing from one of the ads; a man sitting on a huge motorcycle looking down
at a kid on a tricycle.

I was told that Digital had run a supplement to the Sunday London Times
promoting Alpha and offering an Alpha system as a prize for those who sent
in for information.  The response was incredible; the Times said they'd never
seen anything like it.  Digital's offices got calls from IBM and others who
wanted to talk to them about how they did it; later IBM produced an imitation.

I came away wondering why US MARCOM doesn't take a clue from the British.

					Steve

    I have one of these treasured pens ...
    
    Only problem is, the 64-bit horse keeps getting stuck half way along
    the race causing the pen to need a reboot. The viscosity of the fluid
    in the pen also gives my pet tortoise 'Speedy' an over-infalted ego.
    
    I think I may have seen tackier promo items .... or maybe not!
    
    Andrew Moore
    Bristol, UK
    

re.56:

Moan, moan, moan, moan. Have you got a better idea for spreading the message
and keeping it front of the customer? Send it to me.

Dave.

    Well actually....
    
    If we wanted to do something that's truly appreciated by the
    customer...
    
    Here in the UK, you can buy cards for use in payphones. You can also
    have cards of any denomination printed with your own design (a
    collecters club will also help with the production costs if they like
    the design).
    
    The customer keeps the card because it's worth money - even if a
    trivial amount - and could be useful if they need to make that urgent
    call to place an order with Digital!
    
    Andrew (+ve) Moore
    

    Digital-Japan has done that for a while...  it works!

    In Sundays' San Jose Mercury newspaper, in a section for Target Dept.
    stores, I was quite surprised to see an 1/4 page color add for:
    
    Digital color printers, new at Target!
    
    A.Dot matrix printers                  B. Bubble inkjet printer
    * Prints up to 240 characters per sec. * Prints up to 400 CPS
    * Resolution 360X360 dpi               * 300 dpi resolution
    * Color or mono option                 * Integrated 150 page sheet feeder
    * Prints on plain paper, transparencies* Prints on plain paper, transparencies
      labels, and envelopes                  labels, and envelopes
    * Includes 50 pages sheet feeder, MS   * Includes color cartridge, MS
      Windows 3.1 driver, and more           Windows 3.1 driver, and more
    
    A. Low price! 199.99                    B. Low price! 399.99
    
    This was on the same page as the Nintendo game, and cartridge ads.
    I know Target is AT LEAST a west coast chain, maybe more. Nice to see
    something of ours in the stores!
    
    Bob

    Re. .60 
    
    >> Printers at Target!
    
    Target is more than a west coast chain. They are a subsidiary of Dayton
    Hudson (out of Minneapolis) and are very "big" in the midwest. I don't
    know about the east coast, but I have seen some Target stores out of
    the US (I am pretty sure I saw one while on vacation in Austrailia).  I
    will check my local paper (Minneapolis) and see if they have the
    Digital printer ad.
    
    I think selling through a large reputable store like Target, is a step
    in the right direction.
    
    Greg

	I got a CompUSA flyer over the weekend and the Digital PC catalog.
CompUSA sells (probably the same printer that Target's selling in .-2) for
$30 less than we do from the PC catalog.

	There are Target Stores in Nashville, but I don't know of any in New
England.

					--Doug

Saw ad from SUN TV and Appliance (Ohio-based discount outfit) selling
LJ520(?) color ink-jet printers for $397 retail. Latest PC catalog has
them $449, I think.

Also noticed at their store some of our PC system boxes doing routine
cash-register duty, so I guess they are sufficient for commodity use.

Lee

    This month's DAMARK brochure: a d_i_g_i_t_a_l VGA monitor
    (spec's match the PCXCV-GA) for $249.
    Since DAMARK is a liquidator, this doesn't exactly feel 
    like a _good_ sign.
    [dale]
    

    Surely someone jests.  $249 may be a good price, but $481? and a $250
    installation cost (note lack of decimal point).
    
    Then again, it might be $600 through DEPP 8-(
    
    From VTX PRICE:
    
    OPTIONS         PRICES AS OF:  13-JUN-1994         THE U.S. SYSTEMS PRICE LIST
    
    qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq
     Model           Product
     Number          Description                    List            Standard                                                        
     qqqqqqqqqqqq    qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq  qqqqqqqqqqqqqq  qqqqqqqqqqqqqq                                                   
     PCXCV-GA        14"SVGA,intlced,NH,120/240.28  438.00           481.00
    
    
     Basic Maintenance     DECservice Maintenance    Installation    Software                                                          
     Charge (BMC)          Charge (DSMC)             Charge          License Code
    
     4.00                  5.00                      250.00
    
    
    
                                            Recover
     E/U               OEM                  All
    
     N                 F                    0.48
    
     
    qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq
     To return to the previous menu, press  PF3
    
    VTX Command>                        Next Page=NEXT  Prev Page=PREV 
    Backup=PF3
    

    Yep!! They charge $250. for installing a vt420 too....
    
    Unbelievable....JP
    

    More unbelieveable that someone would pay it!
    
    /Bob

They probably charge so much because they don't want the job.  Customers
aren't so stupid that they actually pay it.

    Consider that we are liquidating out older 14" monitors in favor of
    Greener stuff and an increasing demand for at least 15" ?
    
    Other PC houses are doing the same, one way or the other.
    
    

    re .68
    
    You are right on.  They don't want to tie up an engineer to do the job. 
    The cost is the two hour minimum per call charge.  There are a lot of
    items in the price book that have an extraordinary installation cost
    just for that reason.

We're also selling printers via Crutchfield now.

dave

        Yes, it seems our Components & Peripherals business is doing some
        things right.  Getting the products into the marketplace through a
        number of indirect channels (e.g., retailers and liquidators) that
        we didn't usually utilize makes a LOT of sense.  And continuing to
        sell the SAME products through DECdirect for people who will pay a
        higher price to buy direct from Digital (and there are such people
        out there) is an excellent idea.
        
        I wish MORE of our products were marketable this way -- it really
        can reduce the cost of direct sales (but you still have to do lots
        of marketing to create customer interest).
        
        Tom

The plan is to have similar but not identical printer models available from
DECdirect and from retail outlets.  Some retail printer models slipped through
and made it to DECdirect though.

Paul

    $250 may sound outrageous for a monitor or terminal install, but we do
    have customers that think we should install them for free. Even when
    the nearest Digital office may be 3 or more hours away. I've done many
    contract service calls up in east Texas that involved 30 minutes onsite
    with 5-6 hours of travel. Double the times if I need to order a part
    and return the next day. Not much profit in that... :-(
    
    Not all of our stuff gets sold in a major metroplotian area. Even when
    it does, some metropolitan areas are HUGE. I have traveled 50 miles one
    way to do an install (which was sold for $100!) of a non-DEC PC and
    laser printer. I got there and found that some of the pieces didn't
    ship together. Next day I got to go back. All total, about 5 hours of
    travel time and 1-2 hours onsite. For $100. It probably cost Digital
    more than $100 to process the paperwork involved.
    
    It's things like this that cause us to charge a $250 fee for simple
    installs.
    
    Don't even get me started on all the DecPC warranty calls that I get
    now, only to arrive and find out that the customer has a dead phone
    line (my modem won't work!) or doesn't understand their software, etc.
    MCS eats the cost of those "freebies". Handing the user a bill for $250
    at this point wouldn't do much for customer satisfaction... It's just
    part of the cost of doing business as more non-techies try to jump on
    the information highway and do it with Digital PC's.
    
    Harry
    

A recent issue of Computer Resellers has the result of a Gallop pole of
the Fortune 1000 and anther group, finantial 500??

In the introductory commentary on the survey results they commented on the
market perception that HP has.  The most dramatic illustration of this was
the percentage of the color laser printer market that HP has, I think the
figure given was 25%.

Think of it.  25% of all color laser printers installed are made by HP.

HP DOES NOT MAKE OR SELL a color laser printer!!!!

re .75:

Not too surprising, since HP makes color printers and laser printers.
It's also possible that the question was poorly worded.

    Ever looked on the back of an LA65?
    The one on the Target store shelf had, molded into the case, next
    to the DEC I.D. label, "Made in Japan by Citizen".
    

    
    	In response to my public announcement (see.52), Judith Grindal @REO
    was so kind to send me some example of the material they are producing.
    
    	The pens are fantastic, and I'll give them to the customers I'm
    working for.
    
    	She says:
    
    	"It's much fun as it looks and it WORKS"
    
    	I think this is what we are missing in this period at Digital: fun
    and something which let's us hope for something better.
    
    �AA

    <-- Gee, that's nice. A pen for fun, and something to feel good 
        about. What the heck have we been reduced to? 
    
    	Sorry, other than using it to sign our unemployment checks and
        TFSO waivers, I think the pens should be given to customers
    	as planned. They probably only cost a couple hundred a piece.
    
    /Bob

re.79:

>They probably only cost a couple hundred a piece.

Lire?

Dave.

| >They probably only cost a couple hundred a piece.

| Lire?

| Dave.
    
    
    		Jobs.

re.81:

You must be joking, they were very cheap. These are plastic pens we are 
talking about here.

Dave.

    <--
    	Yes, joking, of course. :-) 
    
    /Bob

    During lunch, while "Net-surfin" I found another place where we could
    be "advertising" our products. It's called "INFOMART", and can be found
    at http://www.onramp.net//infomart/infomart.html.
    
    A brief description of "INFOMART":
    
    A 1.6 million square foot market center for computer related products
    and services located in Dallas TX, USA. It's 100 tenants include Apple,
    AT&T, EDS, IBM, Novell, Toshiba, and Xerox. INFOMART Magazine discusses
    hot topics for the imformation systems industry such as client/server,
    multimedia, and networking. The INFORMART Directory gives a brief
    description and telephone numbers for contacting INFOMART tenants.
    
    Would someone please look into the possibility of getting DIGITAL
    listed as a tenant? If we're not "visable" in the public eye, then the
    phones will be ringing at some other company. Yes, I'm aware we
    currently advertise at the "Internet Shopping Network", but I don't
    think we can afford NOT to advertise wherever we can.
    
    Bob

    We were briefly in the INFOMART back in 1987.  At one time we were
    going to put the Dallas ACT there.  KO visited the place and even
    ordered the size of the office space doubled.  For a variety of
    reasons, including consideration that it's a bad idea to bring your
    best customers to (IBM, HP, ...)'s front door, the ACT was put
    elsewhere (@SCA) and the admin offices we had there were moved to Ford
    Road (old DLO facility) and later to either DLO or SCA.

    >For a variety of reasons, including consideration that it's a bad idea
    >to bring your best customers to (IBM, HP, ...)'s front door...
    
    Does this mean, with our faster, "better bang for the buck" products,
    we are afraid to go head to head with the competition? I would tend to
    think THEY would be afraid if WE moved in!
    
    With more and more potential customers gaining access to an avenue we
    don't have a whole lot of billboards on, can we afford not to be there,
    waving flags? I.E. advertise.
    
    Dictionary definition time...
    
    Advertise v.
    
    1. to announce or praise (a product, service, etc.) in some public
    medium of communication in order to induce people to buy or use: to
    advertise a new brand of toothpaste
    
    2. to give information to the public about, esp. in a newspaper or on
    radio or television
    
    3. to call attention to, esp. in a boastful manner : Stop advertising
    yourself!.
    
    4. Obs. to inform or advise
    
    5. to request something, esp. by placing a notice in a newspaper: to
    advertise for a house to rent.
    
    6. to offer goods or services through advertisements. 
                                              
    Bob

    Speaking of Advertise, has anyone seen the latest IBM PC/Server
    commercials?  We better get going, or they are gonna have us for
    lunch AGAIN!
    
    

    Yep, I say the IBM Server commercials.  They showed them on the program
    "Moon Shot" about the U.S. Space missions.  Also, during the same show,
    they had Digital PC commercials.  God were they BAD!!  I work for the
    company and it wasn't until nearly the end that I realized they were
    ours.  
    
    there were no words, so I didn't pay attention, I imagine even people
    that don't work for Digital missed it.  Why can't we get Marketing
    Folks with a brain.  ART DOES NOT WORK NOW, WE NEED TO GET PEOPLE'S
    ATTENTION.
    
    If our adds are going to be this bad, lets save the money and keep a
    few hard working people on the payrole instead of laying off more of
    the wrong people.
    
    Well, so much for my 2 cents worth,
    -jr
       

I'm amazed.  I actually noticed a computer advertisement on
TV (there, that's blown my never-watch-TV-cos-it's-crap claim).

Apple are doing some pretty cool adverts for macs.  The theme
of the adverts was "power" -- I presume that the power macs are
what's driving the ads,  but they didn't mention anything about
system architectures and all that nerd stuff. 

The two I saw had Todd Rundgren and George Clinton as spokesmen.
Admittedly, both of 'em are now in the old-fart league, but 
they do have a fair amount of cred as old guys who can use
technology in a creative way.

	I too missed most of that commercial as there was no sound or other 
	action until I saw the logo pop up!  Much to calm with simple 800 
	number and graphic.  I was ignoring the commercials as the IBM PS2 
	had just been shown in an earlier break of the same program.  I 
	watched that one.  (Isn't this like two car companies  sponsoring 
	same program?)  Our commercial was very easy to ignore and do almost 
	any other activity without missing anything.  It (our commercial) was 
	more appropriate for PBS and NOVA sponsorship.  Not a cable channel 
	in the 90's.  I only watched after someone else pointed out the 
	Digital logo.  Would have ignored the message completely otherwise.  
	For a Video-onDemand company, we missed the mark here.  

	Dave

    Why does this company remind me of England's post WWI "new poor" -
    titled families with not money who simply couldn't "lower themselves"
    to earn a living?
    
    Is producing a commercial that actually got the listener's attention and
    delivered an effective message simply "beneath us"?

	Pardon my frustration, but it's "ads", not "adds".

	Back to the regularly scheduled mishap, already in progress.

							mike

	re. last few:

	Is something wrong with your mute button and your vcr at
	the same time?  Commercials are made to be totally ignored
	in all cases.  Either mute them or record the program and
	then ff through them, or (best) don't watch anything that
	uses them unless you have to.
	
	Amazing!  Some people are still listening to commercials and
	yet it's guys my age that are called dinosaurs!?!

	Lew 

re: .93

>-< Who hears commercials anyway ??? >-

You're a lot closer to the truth than you think with this comment.

I read an article recently about the changing times in the commercial biz.
People flip past them, mute them, ignore them, you name it. They rarely
pay attention to them. The entire industry is changing to accomodate this.

The DEC no-sound commercials work with mute on, they sometimes work w/fast
forward and they're a heck of a lot cheaper than these fancy ones you're
describing.

What we need is more of 'em.

    I saw Digital referred to in an old Time mag that I was reading last
    night. The article was referring to naming sports franchises after
    company names such as Remingtons, Digital Equipments. See we got some
    good press. The Time I was reading had Jackie O on the cover. 
    
    Fran
    

    re 94;
    
    	Commercials are not made to be heard?
    
    		YES.....YES they are.
    
    	Dr. Galeweiczs (sp?)

    Channel 56 did a story on Digital and they had the right logo in the
    right color, now if the national press could get it right.
    

    	With the past complaints about Digital marketing (or lack of it) I
    have to believe after seeing the AOL ads that no marketing is better
    than poor marketing.
    
    	Case in point, 10 second AOL commercial were a guy sitting at a PC 
    turns and says -
    
    	"With America On-line, my boss thinks I'm working, but I'm really
    just goofing off."
    
    	In the words of Dave Barry, I'm not making this up. At first I
    thought it was part of a Saturday Night Live snippet, but I've seen it
    twice since then.
    
    	Ray

    ... well, have you see the AOL ad (about gun control discussion
    groups) that ends up ...
    
    	"Maw! Paw shot the 'Murrica OnLine agin!"

	My favourite is Adam West (from the 1960's Batman TV program)
	talking to the audience while in a sanitarium. His "old chum"
	is the orderly sent to give him his meds.. :)

								mike

    
    	Now those sound like classics, as opposed to the classic crap out
    of our agency when we decide to run something. Then again we still have
    a "name recognition" problem....
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

>        With the past complaints about Digital marketing (or lack of it) I
>    have to believe after seeing the AOL ads that no marketing is better
>    than poor marketing.
>    
>        Case in point, 10 second AOL commercial were a guy sitting at a PC 
>    turns and says -
>    
>        "With America On-line, my boss thinks I'm working, but I'm really
>    just goofing off."

I saw this the other night, and I admit that I first thought it was a 
spoof (I was watching the comedy channel, and they often have great 
ad spoofs which turn into station announcements).

On the other hand, I have no trouble believing this is an effective
ad.  AOL is aimed at the home PC user.  So, anything which says "this
ain't work, it's fun" is consistent with that.  Maybe it's supposed
to help overcome lingering technophobia in their target audience.

    FWIW...
    
    In next years Indycar series, Bobby Rahal is being sponsored by
    Compuserve and Hewlett-Packard.
    
    

I'm watching TV with my kids last night. Commercial comes on. Talks
about Digital's 2-CPU, desktop computer. Digital has it now!

Wait a minute. Oh, it's a Rainbow. Davey clicks off the TV he's watching
and turns to the heroine. I'm watching the movie my kid rented; The 
Philadelphia Experiment. 

Oh, well. We did it at one time.

    yeah! :')