Conference 7.286::digital

    My group is to be hit at 10% as is a sister group. I know all three
    of the people "at risk." I know people in other groups who have been
    told as well.
    
    			Alfred

My sister-in-law's group went from 18 to 10 last week.

    Believe it.
    

    i thought we had a note in this file where people post names of other
    DECeeees and loved ones who have been TFSO'ed or at least announce
    things like, today this many has been hit from our group and things like
    that.
    
    should we continute this process? every one who is hit or know
    of some one being hit or think they will be hit, enter a note about it.
    
    may be the moderators can find that note and point to us?
    
    do you think this is a good idea?
    
    \bye
    \nasser

    Win Hindle announces his retirement on LIVEWIRE.

    I hear some fantastic percentages, something in the order of 40%-50% of
    IM&T, Finance gonna donate more blood, USLS (my parent organization)
    cutting, I *hear* something like 15%, there's more, but I can't
    remember...  I stress that all of this is stuff I've heard from folks,
    and is most likely quite accurate, but I'm just a foot soldier,
    certainly not in a position of "official knowledge" possession. I live
    surround by IM&T types, and they've all been in meetings, and have come
    back, firing up Resum� Wizard...
    
    FWIW

    I think that part of the reason that widespread details are not 
    divulged has something to do with the awkward position management finds
    itself in. They wish to make the quarter/year as profitable as
    possible. How do you manage that when you need all the help you can get
    to accomplish the most, while, at the same time, reduce the headcount?
    Also, keeping people focused on the work would be more difficult if
    everybody knew, blow by blow, exactly who was getting tapped and where.
    
    /Bob 

    our entire group has been hit.......18 days left and counting.
    
    
    J

    What *is* (was) your group (function or name?)
    

    
    
    So people are more productive when they don't know what's going on?
    
    
    Mike

    This is the way it works Mike. You get a whole bunch of people in
    a room and tell  them that some of them are going to be laid off.
    But don't tell them who or how many. This way everyone will think
    they're the ones staying and happily work real hard until they are
    told they're the one. I suppose that must be the theory because
    that's the way they're doing it around here.

    'course now they've told some people so that spoils it.

    			Alfred

    Well, some may choose to be productive on resume's and not their job.
    I, for one, would like to know what's what, but it would be difficult
    to stick to the program knowing that my whole group was dust in 3
    weeks, for instance...
    
    /Bob

    
    Productivity isn't the goal.  The goal is to cut in a productive way. 
    The sooner Digital is done with this restructuring, the sooner the
    remaining Digital will become more productive.  I don't think there's
    much that the SLT can do to make this a pleasant experience...nor a
    productive one.  There are small things you can do to lower the anxiety
    rate...like bury yourself in your work, and/or resign yourself to "what
    will be will be".
    
    Our organization is (I believe) giving us as much information as they
    have...even if they don't have information, they've been telling us
    that, and when they get the details, they tell us (ie, we're going to
    cut X% by Y date).  I think that's about as much as we can ask for
    right now.
    
    Jim

    Since jackie didn't come back to answer...
    
    Search Surname:  SCHWARTZINGER  Search Given Name:  JACKIE,  JACKIE ANN
    DTN:  474-2659  Intrnl Mail Addr:  ACI1  Location:  ACI
    Org Unit:  US DIGITAL SERVICES-MCS
    
    
    

   We just heard that due to expense restrictions (relating to travel)
   our HR rep will be notifying TFSO'ed employees by telephone because
   she cannot travel to the offices to notify them in person.

    MCS is being hit.  I am in Base, and we are going to get impacted.  I
    sure would hate to be an employee after all this MAJOR reduction takes
    place.  You think it's tough now, just wait until July.  We are losing
    business, losing headcount, and budgets are going up.
    
    

    Sorry about that....it is MVCS - they are closing the Call Management
    Center and moving it to Atlanta and CXO
    
    I couldn't get in here before this to answer...we are swamped with
    work!
    
    J

    If they are moving it to Atlanta, that tells me that there is going to
    be some blood flowing out here.  Due to a consolidation effort we have
    experienced, we are on the virge of full capacity.   So, if more people
    are coming in, someones got to go.  Watch out the next two weeks,
    that's what I hear.
    
    Bob
    

         We were told at a meeting last week that our district will be hit 
    by four people. I just read a memo from my manager that this number
    will be increased for a total of 12 people. How can I get myself, or
    my team mates to get motivated? 
    
    

    Personnel is slated to lose 40%!

90-100 people, out of around 800, in Information Design & Consulting (my and
Tom Parmenter's organization) are being Officially Notified today.

					-- Nina

    The following reply has been contributed by a member of our community
    who wishes to remain anonymous.  If you wish to contact the author by
    mail, please send your message to ROWLET::AINSLEY, specifying the
    conference name and note number. Your message will be forwarded with
    your name attached  unless you request otherwise.

    Bob - Co-moderator DIGITAL


    Is there a package with these layoffs? Heard a rumor *no* package was
    being given....

    \Troubled in Texas
    

>    Is there a package with these layoffs? Heard a rumor *no* package was
>    being given....
>
>    \Troubled in Texas
    
    Same package as last quarter.

Supposedly the no-package layoffs start next quarter.

    There is a package, it has not changed...  yet.  I believe it's still
    the 9 weeks plus one week for each full year's service...  and whatever
    else goes along with it...
    
    There is RUMOUR that there will be no severance packages beyond what
    the Feds mandate after the end of the fiscal year, but I stress that
    that's just hearsay...
    
    Hope that helps...

	the current package is 4 weeks plus 1 week for each year served....

    Customer/Internal Support has been hit.  Our Ultrix/OSF1 Kernel support
    group lost four of 28.  All three customer support centers combined
    are to lose about 100 people (out of 950 or so).  This is the 
    *first* hit, not full approved by legal, but some of our managers
    (thankfully mine) will let you know in the privacy of her office
    whether or not you are on "the list".
    
    All groups and all folks names are thrown in the bin to be sifted by
    PA ratings and seniority, etc.  Regardless of skills.  
    
    We've been told the package is one week pay per year of service with
    a minimum of four weeks. 
    
    not much $,
    not good,
    not happy.
    
    BTW, some managers will not tell their folks how many or who in
    particular is on the list.  So we're awash in rumor and sour moods
    are rampant.
    
    sue
    

    
    In Digital Consulting Finland we have seen people reacting to the Q3
    layoffs by starting to leave at own initiative. From a group of 90
    people we have had almost 10 people leaving the company after that -
    and most of those people are the top performers amongst us, of course.
    
    Pirkko
    

    My boss this morning grimly informed me that about 25% of the company
    is expected to be made redundant in the next coupla weeks. 
    Furthermore, the thinking, so I'm told, is that, them's who don't like
    things, the stress, the workloads, can terminate, period, no more
    touchy-feely caring about people as individuals...  we can be replaced
    with people who don't think that they're owed anything by the
    corporation after years of loyal service, etc.  That may be his
    perspective, but I hear it corraborated, more or less, in other
    quarters.  Hold onto your horses, troops, gonna be a real nasty ride.
    
    I wonder why I even stay?

    FWIW, that is definitely NOT the attitude had where I'm at.  Stress,
    heavy workloads and so forth.  We've got that.  Not valued or not
    important to the success of the enterprise?  Heck no!  Our awareness of
    being needed is greatly heightened.  We're running a very tight ship
    and there isn't anybody that I know of that could leave without being
    missed and affecting our deliverables.  I have noticed changes in
    attitudes about folks leaving.  Used to be we felt concern for them.
    But, with the tight ship we're in now, it's changed to concern for us!
    As a result, I look at the folks around me as allies, all working
    together to try to perform well, save all our jobs and be successful.
    We're talking about highly technical folks with marketable skills.  
    Some of us have been (politely) beating off the headhunters ...
    
    Steve

    Steve:
    
    I'm glad that there are still some pockets of decency within this once
    great company, where the human factor is treated with respect and
    dignity, but the sad reality is that the grim message I relayed is one
    I am hearing from too many places to idly dismiss.  I, too, am in a
    small and profitable group wherein each contribution is critical... 
    but that may mean precious little to folks above who don't know the
    detail, and don't care, it's slash-and-burn by numbers...
    
    I wonder why mgmt. doesn't get it, that morale translates directly to
    the bottom line, to future success, as does lack of morale translate
    directly to the continuation of this death spiral we're caught in, and
    any pilots out there are familiar with that analogy...
    
    Sign me:
    
    Stunned in Marlboro

    DEC has a ratio of high to average performers like all other high-tech
    companies (I don't know what the ideal ratio is,maybe something like 10
    to 1) I suspect that after all the "re-org" is done,the ratio will be
    about the same as when we were at 129,000 employees. I suspect that
    overall,the layoffs are in that ratio which with my figure of 10:1
    means that 10 average performers go for every one top performer. I said
    "overall",there will definitely be some groups where it seems as though 
    *all* the "1's" are being laid off. DEC can't afford to keep all the
    top performers. I'll bet that companies that try that soon go bankrupt.
    The idea is to get the job done at the lowest cost. Isn't that what
    keeps shareholders happy?
    
    Ken

    I would hope that the ratio of managers to worker types will be
    corrected, or at least improved.  In our last re-org, we actually got
    an additional layer of management!  Go figure......
    
    steve

    So they dump people, in a business sense this would work if the
    systems and support personnel are operating efficiently.  I gather
    they are not.
    
    (Un)fortunantly efficient systems require less human intervention.
    If we dump people while failing to streamline operations we will not
    suceed.  
    
    I've always tried to work smarter, not harder.  A co-worker I once
    worked with (straight out of college) thought he'd be viewed favorably
    because he always sat at his desk all day.  Meanwhile, I had the
    computers doing the "busy work" for me. 
    
    MadMike 

    
    Right, the current package is 4 weeks of continuous pay plus one week
    for every year with the company with 4 as the minimum so everyone
    leaves with at least 8 weeks.  Also paid is any unused vacation plus
    the personal holiday.  I got the tap this week and leave Friday.  The
    TFSO option says it is approved through the first week of June.
    
    fwiw,
    Steve
    

    Ken,
    
    	I have to disagree completely about letting go of the highest
    performers.  Give me two high performers *any* day, and they'll outwork
    10 average types.
    
    Charlie - sign me a high performer :-)

Aside from the avoided layoffs in France has the rest of
Europe seen the 6000+ layoffs announced not  too long ago?

Curious.

    .37...  Grim thanks for the correct information, what it took to be
    able to share it with us "survivors", eh?  The best to you... 
    Godspeed...

    Could someone please post the "official" TFSO package details that were 
    found on LIVEWIRE a couple months ago.
    
    Thanks
    
    Dick

re previous note, whose number I forget before I'm so stressed out I don't
know what day it is:

Layoffs don't equate to "streamlining".  Certainly not from where I'm sitting.
All it's meant is that those of us who have yet to feel the shoulder tap, are
expected to pick up the slack.  That is, after you recover from the shock and
disbelief.

sign me... stunned.
 

    re .39: About 850 in Germany.
    
    I'm not even sure what our headcount is nowadays... 850 probably
    amounts to over 20%.

In Norway 25% will have to go. It started on March 25th
when 30-40 people out of 250 had to go. Within July 1st
we are supposed to be down to 185, so a few more have to
leave before that. When this round is over we will be
down more than 50% compared to the top population.

On the first TFSO here in Norway people got up to 18 months
pay, pluss help to get new jobb. This time you get help to
find a new jobb, but no extra pay.

Svein

    UK is 85 people below its population target for the end of Q3, with
    more to go during Q4.

    The word went out a while back that SEG (Silicon Engineering Group, the 
    folks who design the chips, for you TLA-impaired folks :-) would cut by
    6%.  A friend was tapped and told me that while they admit that they 
    have to cut projects, deciding which would take longer than they have.  
    
    So instead, they are simply tapping the folks who are between projects
    -- like my friend.  This implies to me that probably the cuts are
    probably not hitting managers.  But when do they ever?
    
    My own group is not going to be cut -- instead, they told us they'll
    be cutting some of our support groups, so that we'll have to pick up
    some of that work.  Everywhere I look, the peanut butter is being
    spread thinner.  
    
    As painful and frustrating as it is to cut whole groups and whole
    projects, it seems to me that there's no alternative anymore.  I
    only hope the decisions on which groups/projects to cut are based
    on a coherent and sensible plan for what businesses Digital wants
    to remain in when we come out of this.  
    
    	Larry

 >>> 90-100 people, out of around 800, in Information Design & Consulting (my
 >>> and Tom Parmenter's organization) are being Officially Notified today. 
 >>> 
 >>>                                         -- Nina

     As a system manager for IDC, I'm one of those who has the inenviable duty
     of being an "account assassin."  Since many IDC users have accounts on 
     multiple clusters, my colleagues and I have been confirming names all 
     week.  A week ago, the predicted number was 92.  As of yesterday, we've 
     received confirmation on 88.  11% to 11.5% of IDC "bought the farm."

 Terry

re Note 3096.48 by NOTAPC::PEACOCK:

>    Palmer and others had been saying, to the best of my understanding at
>    least, that further cuts/layoffs would be based on some analysis of
>    the business units.  That these cuts would affect (only/mostly) those
>    business groups that were no longer "desirable".
  ...
>    Instead I am hearing that nearly all groups are being hit, and that
>    the numbers are ranging anywhere from 10% to 45 or 50%.  It seems to
>    this observer that the cuts are being spread across nearly every
>    business unit, regardless of the viability of that unit.  There are a
>    couple of exceptions - I hear that the PC group actually has some
>    small number of open reqs, but basically everybody got slashed.
   
        Palmer committed a downsizing schedule to the BOD a long time
        ago (a year?).  Digital made essentially zero net progress
        towards meeting this schedule over the past few quarters.

        The BOD gave Palmer an ultimatum to get back on the
        downsizing schedule by the end of the fiscal year (this
        month).  This requirement appears to be independent of and
        higher priority than the restructuring analysis -- in any
        event, the restructuring analysis is not complete and thus
        its results are not being taken into account in the current
        layoffs.

        The current layoffs are mostly dumb cut-to-the-numbers
        reductions.

        Still to come is a restructuring of Digital businesses --
        that will surely be accompanied by yet more layoffs as future
        needs are finally determined.

        Bob

We were told yesterday that there is no more TFSO - no more package.
Anyone laid off from today on will just get their normal severance pay
(2 or 4 weeks, depending on wage class, I think.)

At least we won't have to keep explaining what TFSO stands for.

				Steve

    
    re: .49
    
    I pretty much concur with your analysis. I think there are a
    number of things going on. 
    
    1. Cut people to get back on the downsizing schedule (i.e.,
       continue to work the revenue to headcount ratio).
    2. Prepare to sell/spinoff some things (would those
       units/products be more valuable with less people?)
    3. Continue the analysis of what we can sell/spinoff.
    4. Loop to 1.
    
    I also think that we got some unpleasant news about the valuations
    of some of the businesses; I think that information might be
    fed into the decision making apparatus with respect to down-
    sizing. I also think that there was probably some feedback
    from interested buyers that said cut more.
    
    Of course, all of this is simply demented speculation on my
    part. I'm "out of the loop" to quote an erstwhile politician.
    
    Glenn   

    
    Where did you hear that from?  I'm very interested since the reason
    I volunteered to leave was the package.
    
    
    such that it is...
    
    

    re: couple back... Can't be true. Our group has been told that
    all involved will be notified next week... just can't believe
    that the package has ended...
    

    re: Package ended.....
    
    Reliable source, MCS Manager here who has been personally involved with
    many people's departure, states that the current package is good
    through the end of the fiscal year (FWIW)....
    
    Toodles.....JP

Remember ... you CAN't Officially Volunteer for Severence ?????

    The layoffs here in DCO seem to be widespread across all organizations
    with some folks being hit last week, this week, and rumored to be hit
    in the next few weeks.  It appears from my chair to be a blindfolded
    grim reaper swinging his blade....keep yer head down!
    
    steve

Re: .53

I heard it from my cost center manager yesterday.  It's possible she was
misinformed, though she's been quite reliable about such things in the 
past.  She said that the deadline was the reason for not taking longer to
come up with the list of people to be tapped.

It would not astonish me, though, to learn that different managers were being
given different stories.

					Steve

    	Just heard a few good rumors and thought I'd put them in this
    thread since it's already depressing:
    
    1. Salary freeze effective immediately, including any recent paperwork
    which had not yet been processed (like any May and June increases which
    people have not yet received).
    
    2. Mandatory plant closings - Planned for both the weeks of July 4th
    and Christmas week (either without pay or using your vacation time).
    However, this has been temporarily postponed until the implications are
    better understood.
    
    3. A pool of roughly $7-10M exists for executive bonuses with no plans
    to cut this or executive salaries, despite 1 & 2 above. Sure seems like
    this would help the Q4 bottom line to give up this money, but what do I
    know.
    
    	Good stuff, huh? Pretty detailed for a rumor, huh? Remember you
    heard it here first!

re .58:

I asked our CC mgr about this, and she said that the word from Harbert at the
beginning of this TFSO was that the package would end on May 31.  She didn't
rule out the possibility that this had changed since she spoke to him about it.

I got mail from someone who had a group meeting today with several CC mgrs,
a group mgr and a personnel rep.  They repeatedly denied that the package
was gone.

I suspect the package is here until the end of the quarter.

      Re .59
    
      What effect would this have on Wage Class 4 folks, who get paid on an
    annual salary basis....not by the hour?? 
    
      As far as a salary freeze, some of us have felt that it's been
    'frozen' for a looooooong time already..
    
     

    as with last christmas...a WC4 person would submit a timecard that
    would say "without pay"...
    
    -sjd
    

    Boy, I hope that one about mandatory vacation in a month is not true!
    I don't have the vacation time, and I can't afford on such short notice
    to survive a "payless payday"!  Ulp!
    
    /Charlotte

    
    If we close a plant or plants for any length of time, we might as well
    get out of this business. Our customers are already mad as hell about
    our late deliveries and other related mfg problems. 
    
    

    I know this might be a foolish pondering, but.... If our problem is 
    that we can't produce enough of the stuff that the customers want why
    the heck would we be closing down the factories? I guess the lead
    times aren't long enough...
    
    Also I wouldn't sweat anything new. I was gabbing with a person today
    that had said we need to have some (my word) inovation. We've been
    downsizing things without coming up with newer or different ways of
    doing things. 
    
    Fred

>We were told yesterday that there is no more TFSO - no more package.
>Anyone laid off from today on will just get their normal severance pay
>(2 or 4 weeks, depending on wage class, I think.)

I won't believe it 'til I read it in the paper.

-Andy (spoken only half in jest)

    
    What I was refering in in .53 was the note from .50 saying that as
    of June 1 there is not package, just 2-4 weeks pay and that's it.
    I thought I'd put a note in here to let you all know that the 
    cc manager who told his group this was feeding them mis-information
    I called personnel and they double-checked and confirmed that the
    package of 4 weeks plus 1 week for every year of service is
    still in effect till the end of June.
    
    
    Paulette
    

    re .62
    
      Interesting........but a bit puzzling... I don't recall that being
    the case...
    
       Fer talking purposes:  Employee XX is on an ANNUAL SALARY of
    $52,000.00... Digital decides to 'close the shop' for a week.. Employee
    XX will now be either:
                          (a)FORCED to use his/her vacation????
                          (b)If he/she refuses, salary will be reduced to 
                             $51,000.00???? Sounds like a pay-cut, huh??
    
    
       I COULD understand this scenario if the Corp. had established a
    POLICY of annual plant shutdown for vacation as some do, but this is
    typically a well-known and widely published situation that ALL
    employees know and understand prior to hiring. However, I don't really
    see why it should have an impact on a salaried individual... Must be
    another new "bennie" that we're gonna get..
    
      

   Re -.1

I don't have my last salary letter nearby, but I believe that we're paid a
weekly salary (which most of us translate to annual figure). 

~/karl
      

      Re .69
    
      I DO have my last few salary increase notifications here, and every
    one of them give a weekly and ANNUAL SALARY figure... Also, I cannot
    ever recall any Digital person who has ever had a need to ask what my
    current salary is requesting it as a weekly....they ALWAYS ask what my
    ANNUAL salary is..
    
      In fact, I just went WAAAY back and found my OFFER LETTER from
    Personnel which I received when I became an employee eons ago, and it
    specifically states an "ANNUAL SALARY OF $XX,XXX.XX"............
    
     

It will be interesting if they actually do plant closings.  Some operations 
(such as MCS) certainly cannot shut down for a week, unless we get the
customers to agree to not have any problems. :-)

	dave

    RE: -1
    
    I think the word 'plant' in this case would mean a manufacturing
    facility.  Scheduled holiday shutdowns are very common in many
    production industries.  The plant can do much needed maintenance, the
    factory staffs can plan knowing that all the employees will be taking
    their vacations at the same time, and with careful planning, God
    willing and the creek don't rise, they can still make their ship
    schedules.......
    
    Customer service is another story.............you can't cover a week of
    support with soem extra finished goods inventory.
    
    

    I thought that in many cases (disks for example and I presume AXP
    CPUs) that we were way behind in orders as it is.  closing 'those'
    plants would seem a poor choice.

    re: .70
    
    > I DO have my last few salary increase notifications here, and every
    
    better save those.  sounds like they'll be real collector's items
    shortly.

    re: -1
    
    you're right......in my mfg experience it has been hard to justify
    scheduled plant shutdowns when we were behind schedule...and many times
    the shutdowns didn't happen.  The plan was always to get the yields up,
    shortages down, and get back on schedule.  What we're probably hearing
    is the 'plan'......
    
    steve

Additionally, even when did have plant shutdowns the 
lines often continued to operate. We just ran with a 
lighter crew and left the overhead/paper work go until
those folks returned. If we had an emergency need 
to deal with overhead we had folks on callin who
got paid for the hours they had to show up. 

At this point plant shutdowns, unless it includes
significant numbers of non-manufacturing functions,
wouldn't save a whole lot of money. One may be able
though to justify shutting down, for example, IM&T
development work for a couple of weeks.

    Digital did this last Christmas.  Don't you remember?

)0 Worldwide News                                 LIVE WIRE
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 Digital announces immediate wage and salary ...             Date: 02-Jun-1994
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Page   1 of 1  
              Digital announces immediate wage and salary freeze 
       
         Digital management has decided to implement an immediate freeze 
   in base wages and salaries as part of the effort to reduce costs and 
   return the company to profitability, according to Richard M. Farrahar, 
   vice president, Human Resources.  Performance-based incentive plans 
   currently in place are not affected.
         "Digital is at a critical stage of our turnaround.  We are 
   examining every aspect of our business with a determination to focus 
   on long-term success and hold costs in check to assure operational 
   flexibility," Farrahar said.
         He explained that management had examined payroll, one of 
   Digital's largest fixed costs, and after careful consideration, 
   concluded a freeze was necessary.  The freeze applies to payroll 
   worldwide, unless prohibited by law or other binding legal obligations.  
   In countries where the freeze is prohibited, managers are required to 
   submit the same level of cost reduction by other means.
         In outlining provisions of the freeze to senior managers, 
   Farrahar said, "It is important for employees to understand that this 
   is part of our overall effort to reduce costs and restore profitability.  
   We -- each and every one of us -- must continue to do the difficult 
   things necessary to get Digital back to profitability as quickly as 
   possible.  Our shareholders expect it, our customers want it and I am 
   confident that our employees will understand the necessity."
         Consistent with Digital's "pay for performance" philosophy, 
   however, performance-based incentive plans will continue where they are 
   currently in place.  These include sales incentives, organizational and 
   country success sharing programs, annual performance-based incentive 
   programs and the stock option program.
         In addition, funding has been increased for the FY94 Top Performer 
   and FY94 Employee Recognition programs "to provide more financial reward 
   opportunities for high-performing employees at all levels."
         Continuation or termination of the freeze will be determined by 
   Digital's future financial performance, Farrahar concluded.


















                       FOR DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY
 

    Re .74
    
      Right!! They already qualify as "antiques" due to age...
    
    

    And we have people walking around saying things are better then they
    appear???????  We're out telling customers, etc. that Q3 was an 
    abnormal event and we're back on track????  Based on what I've seen,
    and heard to be announced soon, we're acting like it's closer to the
    end than we think.  
    
    Mark
    

    
      Re .77
    
      Not really. The Christmas thingie was strictly a VOLUNTARY item, with
    a clear message that it WAS voluntary... In fact, I hadda work so some
    of the 'chosen' could take the week off. Nobody was forced to lose pay.
    If they elected to take unpaid leave, they were allowed to do so..
    
      

    re .80
    
    Mark,
    
    Can you elaborate on what you're talking about ? 
    
    Or is it the wage freeze that pissed you off ;)
    
      
    

    re: 68
    
     I had my previous employer close down the plant for a week because of
    financial problems (Pennsylvania). It was legal then (late 70's)...
    
     Doubt it would happen here though (FWIW)

    	The "wake week" system started in Lancashire factories several
    hundred years ago. The factories were so small that the loss of even
    one person from the production line was a problem, and with
    just-in-time supplying between carders, dyers, weavers,... it was
    inconvenient for one factory to shut down without all the others doing
    so. On the other hand, the employers recognised a need for *some*
    holiday during the year, so the wake week of a town was the week on
    which every factory was closed.
    
    	More recently I have visited a factory with 10,000 employees that
    is highly automated. They close for 2 weeks in the summer and 9900
    employees go on holiday while the remaining ones take their only chance
    in the year to do software upgrades, LAN restructuring,... For the rest
    of the year the factory is running 3 shifts, and the computer people
    daren't even unplug a cable except on their own support systems. It is
    a very busy 2 weeks for 1% of the employees.
    
    	It does work well in a manufacturing environment. It might work
    well in other environments such as personnel or software engineering
    where you might be able to have savings by shutting off heating, light,
    air conditioning to a wing of a building for a week.

    re .82
    
    I've been in customer meetings recently where VPs told customers that
    the Q3 surprise was really not as bad as it looks.  We had more than
    enough unshipped business on the dcok waiting for final components
    to make up for the shortfall, our supply chain problems are solved,
    and we will see that revenue made up in Q4.  Also, stated was that
    since we are experiencing greatly increased demand for hardware
    products, we expect that tend to continue and we will back back on
    track revenue-wise soon, and that although we will watch our costs
    closely, there is no need for major drastic actions in the expense
    areas...especially in the areas of service and support.
    
    I view the curent and forecasted actions as drastic, and I don't like
    it when our senior managers lead customers on like that.  Maybe I'm
    just to worried about how customers will react 8-)
    
    Mark
    

    yeah...
    and we landed on the moon in 1865, too.
    

    Do we really have 1b$ in cash?

re: .87

>    Do we really have 1b$ in cash?

yup...of course some of the individual bills have pictures of a seal balancing
a ball on its nose...
								- paul

    Rumor:  I've heard from two sources in the last two days that the cut
    that is now being experienced is only for laying off 7K.  They are
    saying that a much bigger cut, beginning in August for 20K to go (with
    no package) is going to happen.  For one of these sources, today was
    their last day, and their manager told them this 20K was going to be
    happening.  This source was more from the engineering side of Digital.
    Has anyone else heard that one?  and What do you think of it?
    
    The other rumor I heard today for the first time, is that there is
    going to be some sort of voluntary severance package coming around.  I
    heard this rumor over past years a lot, so I wondered if anyone heard
    this one too.

    Heard the rumor ref: 20K next Qtr, didn't hear anything new
    ref: voluntary pkg- Doubt it strongly - why pay? If they keep
    doin' it to us, like this past week, enough will leave on their own.
    
    /Bob

re Note 3096.94 by AIMHI::DANIELS:

>     Rumor:  I've heard from two sources in the last two days that the cut
>     that is now being experienced is only for laying off 7K.  They are
>     saying that a much bigger cut, beginning in August for 20K to go (with
>     no package) is going to happen.  

        The "living" will envy the "dead".

        Bob

    	Since the number of engineers left in this company, hardware and
    software combined, is less than 15k, some will have to come from
    somewhere else. It will be an interesting company if every single
    engineer gets the boot!

    it would be interesting to see the demographics of the company broken
    down by number of players in the various groups and then the number of
    players in 'overhead' vs. 'non-overhead'.

Re .73:

>    I thought that in many cases (disks for example and I presume AXP
>    CPUs) that we were way behind in orders as it is.  closing 'those'
>    plants would seem a poor choice.

I'd say it would make as little sense as an across-the-board headcount cut
without regard to which divisions contribute to making money.

:-(

	paul

Why not read the article about Compaq in yesterday's VNS in VTX?

Then think again our headcount, our internal IT services, the usage models 
of our (largest private in the world) network, our working models etc.

--Ritva

    Sales support was hit in April.  All the CBU sales support people were
    rolled into one group by geography and placed under sales.  Our headcount
    on Jan. 15 was 36 people coded sales support.  The new model called for 14
    district people and 1 region person.  Some were given sales slots and some
    moved to consulting, but most were TFSO'd.  With the bad Q3 results,
    another 3 are to be let go this week including me, so the group will be
    down to 12.  There is talk of major cuts in sales at the end of the month.
    
    I don't think there will be sales support in a year!

    They are not waiting!  They laid off the only Unix person in our area
    and one of the two technical writers.
    
    Hold on to your hats! Here we go again!
    

    Hmmm...  JULIET's in San Francisco...  Last UNIX person...  Well THAT
    figures, there isn't any market for UNIX over there...  Must be LOTS of
    call for OpenVMS expertise.  Yep that must be it!!!
    

    Geez...will Digital continue???

    Just heard that PKO3 (Education) got hit big time, but full extent not
    known.  Don't know whether customer training, or internal training, or
    a combo of both, but the suspicion is that all of internal training may
    have been hit seeing as almost noone had funding anymore for internal
    training.
    
    Can anyone out there confirm or clarify this?
    
    And, just a coupla years ago many groups were "kicked out" of PKO3 to
    make room for this lovely upscale training center, and quickly it
    started "dying"...  the Digital Store closed...  my group was there,
    and was moved (for other reasons) to MRO3...  it just have cost the
    company a bundle to refurbish PK3, and heave us all out of there...

    MCS training in PKO3 was hit BIG TIME.  All of the instructors are
    gone, except for 3 or 4 who will no longer be doing any instructing. 
    All of the managers are gone.
    
    Some DLS (customer training) suffering too... some management, some
    staff.  No instructors from DLS (at PKO) were hit, yet.  I understand
    two other sites lost one each... 
    
    I've been participiting in another string in this conference on this
    topic... MCS training is going back to the CAI MODEL.
    
    I have no idea what other site activity there is/was for the current
    round of TFSO activity.
    
    tony

    
    Re:  .105  "cost us a bundle"
    
    I am normally read-only but I just couldn't resist replying to this
    note, as one of the people who have been caught in the PK shuffle for 
    3 years now.  We (IDC) used to be part of US Education and Training 
    and chartered to develop training.  A majority of us sat in Parker 
    Street and developed/supported/piloted the courses for Bedford.  When 
    they moved from Bedford to Parker Street, they kicked us to Chelmsford.
    (a small group had been going back and forth between Parker Street and 
    Littleton anyway.) Even though we were directly connected to the training
    facility, we were leaving.  Go figure.
    
    So, in spite of how dumb it seemed, we move to Chelmsford.  Within a 
    few months we are informed that we will be moving yet again because
    our lease is running out in Chelmsford, so they moved us BACK
    to Parker Street, within a year.  Some of us even wound up in the exact
    same physical location as when we left or close to it. (so, why did we
    move to Chelmsford for 11 months?)  
    
    Well, .105 is correct...the training facility at PKO was never what it
    was at Bedford (how much did we pay to refurbish?)  Anyhow, we were all
    back there for 2 years.  Then we were told that displaced engineering 
    groups from the Mill were going to be moving to PKO.  Which was good
    for us, because we work closely with those groups.  BUT, we were told
    we had to leave.   Several people made a point about how much this
    whole thing cost.  But, we were asked to go to MRO1.  (Which we were
    more than happy to do and we landed here in April, but some of us are
    so tied to engineering that we need offices in Maynard, so those of us
    who will be going BACK to PKO, are currently with offices in both MRO
    and MLO and will be back in PKO soon).  
    
    Now, that we've been reorged as of a few weeks ago, it turns out that now
    the entire organization is part of the same engineering group that is 
    going to Parker Street.  So, do we now go back to Parker Street?  (the last
    question was pure sarcastic speculation on my part, but really now...)
    
    How MUCH does all this cost????  Is anyone paying attention?   
    
    -Susan                 
    
    

    Well, the cost of the re-do at PKO3 was approximately 9 Millon Dollars. 
    We became a training HUB.  That is, what WAS Customer Training and what
    WAS Internal Training became the Eastern Area Training HUB.  There were
    a few other HUBs set up at about the same time.  This was in the last
    half of 1992.
    
    In the last half of 1993, the HUB was split in two parts.  DLS (Digital
    Learning Services) resumed what had been Customer Training.  MCS picked
    up what used to be Internal.  But the two organizations were never to
    be the same as when at Bedford.  
    
    The previous noter was right in her statement that PKO never became
    what Bedford was... it was smaller, and it had NO proximity to hotel/motel
    (used for the customers of BOTH organizations).  But, the actual
    training facility was excellent!  A BIG step forward from what was used
    at Bedford.  
    
    But, development of the HUB model failed (IMHO) because the plans were
    never fully implemented, management shuffled and the rest is history.
    
    Rumors now are that DLS will move away from PKO... into some privately
    owned facility (a Hotel is likely) somewhere near or on Rt. 128, easily
    accessible.  Where?  God only knows.  But, it looks certain that the
    displaced engineering folks from the mill will be here by year's end.  
    
    Many folks move around a lot.  We don't always understand the why's and
    begrudge doing it.  I've personally moved three times since Dec. 1992. 
    Once to PKO3 from Bedford, and twice within PKO (from one side of the
    building to the other, and then back again... to the EXACT spot I left
    from).  
    
    It cut's costs.  
    
    tony

    
    the cost of the move from bedford to PKO and the cost of referb of pko
    we were told ran $12M or so.
    
    state of the art classrooms that made area colleges envious.
    was the reaction from tours conducted involving area colleges.
    
    main problem with having training in PKO was, no place to stay
    nearby, all customers from out of town stayed in hotels in marlboro
    and area's north.
    
    a good 30 plus minute commute, customers could not understand why
    we didnt have the training facility in marlboro, right near the hotels.
    ( Wow what a concept )
    
    mike
    
    former instructor /last january
    

    >>state of the art classrooms that made area colleges envious.
    >>was the reaction from tours conducted involving area colleges.
    
    
    Well, now they'll be able to rent the classrooms to area colleges.
      
    

    I prefered training when it was in PKO2... never did like BUO that
    much...
    
    Lee

    re: 107(and others)
    
    maybe the "they" who had you moving all around with no apparent reason
    should be the ones TSFO'd as they are costing the company big bucks
    and aren't bringing in any money with all these usless shuffles..
    
    IMO

    The cost of refurbishing PKO was the $9million I referred to in my
    .last.  Mike's referral to $12 M. includes the cost of the move TO PKO
    from BUO.
    
    In May, 1992, when the move was first announced at a general staff meeting 
    held in the cafeteria at BUO, I asked Bob Good (the then manager) about
    the lack of "facilities" in the Maynard area... and how would this be
    received by our "customers".
    
    His reply (and I paraphrase, since it is from my not-so-perfect memory)
    was that his staff had conducted a formal "survey" of our customers
    (and I interpreted, as I think he meant, that the word customer refers
    to ALL who are attending classes... not just CUSTOMERS) and that that
    survey included questions about how important it was for the student's
    living quarters to be "close at hand" to the training facility.  The
    responses, he said, indicated that concern for living quarters
    proximity to the facility was "way down" on the list (I recall he
    mentioned in 9th or 14th place... or something like that) and was NOT
    to viewed as a problem.  Besides, he said, the various hotels had
    agreed to provide shuttle service to PKO!  
    
    The matter was dropped.
    
    Those of you who have been to the "new" training facility must
    certainly agree that it is indeed a beautifully designed and
    implemented training area:  54 classrooms, all with raised platforms
    for the instructor, all with sound-proofing, all with over-head
    projectors for PowerPoint display, or TV... all equipped with a VCR,
    all wired for sound... all wired for video, high-speed data, voice, and
    ethernet...  A full "open" lab for students, a "private" instructor's
    lab, for production/development/support, and a "proprietary" lab, where
    we could (and often did) stage new products, hold demos, etc.
    
    This place is a truly wonderful place to teach in.  I've never enjoyed
    teaching anywhere (and my teaching career, while broken, goes back to
    1964) more than here.
    
    Now the word is out that ALL these classrooms are to be dismantled. 
    And soon what training is to be done will be done elsewhere.
    
    Engineering is moving in, and I understand they are going to dismantle
    the open lab and enlarge it.  The "proprietary" lab is long since gone. 
    The "instructor" lab is still there... haven't heard much about what's
    going on in it.  I understand all the class rooms are to be torn down..
    more office space is needed.
    
    On the first floor of PKO, the desks are already stacked up in one
    room, the cubicle "dividers" are all dismantled, and the
    destruction/rebuilding of PKO3 is well underway.
    
    Those people who remain are constantly shuffling around as
    "reorganizations" take over their jobs, and as "consolidations" take
    place... To save costs, all DLS instructors were moved back to the same
    space they were last year... 
    
    I could go on... but, you know how it is.  It's probably the same where
    you work, maybe even worse.
    
    God help us all.
    
    
    tony

    They're going to dismantle them?  
    
    Why don't they sell the building to Boston University, MIT, or
    another local college?
    
    					andrew

    I second the disbelief.   Geez.  State of the art facility going
    through the crusher, presumably because of poor planning on somebody's
    part.  
    
    Geez.
    
    --bonnie

PKO is infinitely better than BUO...not just in terms of classrooms and labs,
but more importantly in terms of traffic/commuting.  BUO was ATROCIOUS on that
score!
							- paul

    Yup - Bedford was a terrible place to try to get it during normal
    working hours.  It was only somewhat better if you knew how to nagivate
    the backroads shortcut.  It probably took people staying in nearby
    motels at least as long to get to BUO as it takes people to get from
    hotels in MRO to PKO.
    
    /Charlotte

    
    I did a customer training at MRO4 and the customers stayed in various
    places in and around Marlboro.  They loved the proximity of the hotels
    and the facility.  These same customers complained about both BUO and
    PKO. 
    
    However, I think it's absolutely appalling that much money was
    spent on a training center that is now going away.  I can't get a
    pencil to write with around here, but we can just ambiguously decide to
    stop using places that cost us several million dollars to build.  Talk
    about penny wise and pound foolish.  When I've raised this to others I
    am told I don't understand corporate finance.  So EXPLAIN THIS TO ME.
    If there is logic in the scheme of things, I'd like to know what it
    could be.  
    
    From down here, these decisions appear to be silly.
    
    (jeez I'm getting touchy lately)
    
    -Susan
    
    

    As someone who worked on the first floor of PKO3 through all the months
    they spent ripping up the second floor -- all I can say is that I'm
    stunned they're taking it apart.  
    
    I worked in Office Applications in those days (related to Ed Services
    through dotted line matrixed mis-management), and helped with tours of
    the building when it was finished.
    
    All that money down the tubes -- no wonder we're in so much trouble!
    
    Sheesh!
    
    ****  

    don't worry!! It will all be built again in the near future...hahaha..
    more $$$$$$$to waste.
    
                stig

    The following topic has been contributed by a member of our community
    who wishes to remain anonymous. The author has requested NO MAIL replies.
    Please reply here.

    Bob - Co-moderator DIGITAL

==============================================================================

	If people are upset about PKO3, they're not going to be very
	happy when they find out that it is costing us $2 to 3 million
	to renovate AKO1 + 2 before the PC business will move in. 
	Desks are wood and/or wood laminates with chairs with wood 
	arm rests, new w/w carpets  etc.... nothing but the best. 

	This is unconscionable at a time when we are having massive
	layoffs and a wage freeze.

	When will we ever learn?

    Well, at least it's down from the original $4M... :-(
    
    

   > when will we learn?
    
    this is why we have a wage freeze so we can spend the money for our
    raises on things that aren't as important. Then the nexted week we'll
    knock that business down too...
    
                 stig

And the company wonders why there is a morale problem... 

Lee

    Actually, Lee, I haven't seen any indication that the company cares
    about morale.
    
    
    Bob
    

    If they cared about moral they wouldn't top a salary freeze with a job
    code freeze...
    
    Gail

    .126 Gail:
    
    I think you meant moralE.
    
    Ron

    re .126  Your right, my lack of a promotion has not affected my
    morals...at this time.   Gail

    re: .121
    
    Not to mention the NEW demo centers which were completed less than a
    year ago are gone, plus all the walls, ceilings, etc are being torn
    out/down & replaced. My office is right in the destruction
    path....we're moving to OGO next week....
    
    Debbie
    (the LAST AP/A (nee GIA) group to move out)
    

    I`m sure some accountant out there could clear this up. If I remember
    my finance classes all these things are tax deductable (building new
    training ctrs ectra) whereas your wages and the like are not deductable
    to the company...thats why I was a bit surprised when they did away
    with most of the education policy.

>    If they cared about moral they wouldn't top a salary freeze with a job
>    code freeze...

Have I missed something?  Have promotions been frozen as well?

al

    
    
    Yup.
    
    Ken

    
    I thought the PC business moved out of Acton to Stow last year.
    Now they're moving back?
    
    

    Yup, the PC group is moving back to Acton.
    

    when will it ever end...
    
    
                      
    
    
    
    
    
         
       
     
    

    
    >When will it ever end...
    
    When the only person who is left is the Worldwide Personnel 
    manager. This person would then switch off the lights and fire 
    themselves,
    
    :-) Mark.

	Re: .135

>    when will it ever end...
    
	My guess is about 6-12 months.

    
    	Never - we think we're the federal government. 

    The job code freeze has now been lifted.  I was told by a manager that
    the reason for it was that many of the layoffs were being done by
    job code, and that in the last there was a lot of shifting of people
    out of the affected job codes.  Should one admire a manager who
    protects his/her people by playing games like this, or should one
    vilify such a manager for playing games instead of reducing head count?
    Beats me.
    
    	Larry

    The following reply has been contributed by a member of our community
    who wishes to remain anonymous.  If you wish to contact the author by
    mail, please send your message to ROWLET::AINSLEY, specifying the
    conference name and note number. Your message will be forwarded with
    your name attached  unless you request otherwise.

    Bob - Co-moderator DIGITAL

================================================================================

    This very tactic was implemented in my group 2 months ago.  Our senior
    manager changed the job titles of our 4 supervisors to Principal
    Engineer.

    I asked why, and it was clear that it was to protect their jobs.  

    I asked if that implies our group is management top-heavy, the answer
    was no.

    I asked how the supervisors would be performance-evaluated, I was told
    that they would be evaluated as a supervisor, not an engineer.

    I asked if this was an ethical thing to do.  I was not answered.

    I was furious that our group, that I previously respected, would pull
    such a stunt.  I got the sense from the manager that our group
    *deserves* to be exempt from any management layoffs.  Total bunk.

    Any new rumors on layoffs?  Heard there might be significant cuts in
    sales, with not package.
    

    My husband got the tap this week, in DC. Same package as was announced
    for Q1.
    
    Debbie
    

    RE: -1

    	You call what they gave in Q1 a package?  I call it an insult.

    Joe

I call it "A lot better than namy of other companies in this
world would give you".

	Could someone tell me what the CURRENT Serverence is???

	I can not seem to find it anywhere

	thank you

>	Could someone tell me what the CURRENT Serverence is???
>
>	I can not seem to find it anywhere

Perhaps that answers your question :-).

-Joe

    In the states, I believe I saw it now officially two weeks.

    [I have seen no official update on this, and local HR says it is
    current.]
    
    
                             BENEFIT SUMMARY

		(In addition to the 4 Weeks of Continuous Pay)

1.  ADDITIONAL		The total TFSO amount will be paid via weekly
    TFSO WEEKLY         payments. The total amount is equivalent to the 
    PAYMENTS            applicable number of weeks times your weekly gross 
                        base/regular wages for normally scheduled hours of 
                        work less deductions required by law.  The applicable 
                        number of weeks is determined in accordance with the 
                        following schedule:

			YEARS OF CONTINUOUS 	  # OF WEEKS		 
			REGULAR COMPANY SERVICE

			 Less than 6 years	  4 weeks 
                         of service
           
                         6 or more years of       6 weeks
                         service but less
                         than 15             

                         15 or more years of      8 weeks
                         service

2.  INSURANCE		A continuation of current medical, dental, basic
                        optional GUL and personal accident life insurance
                        coverages for the period of the Additional TFSO
                        Weekly Payments.

3.  OUTPLACEMENT	Employee may use the support services of Drake, Beam 
                        and Morin (DBM) for a period of six (6) months 
                        after the Friday of Notification Week.

4.  PPC		        PPC (Personal Performance Consultants) is available 
                        for a period of six (6) months beginning immediately
                        upon notification.
             

		Thank you very much.... 
	That is also the last one I received, but have heard
	4 weeks, 2 weeks....etc.

	again, thank you 

	Mikki