Conference 7.286::digital

    Mike,
    
    I'm sorry to hear of your TFSO.
    
    However, you didn't clarify what the problem was.  Reading between the
    lines, you believe that we (DEC) should not provide to the customer
    software that may alleviate/correct his problem, other than by selling
    the software to him/her; or, perhaps you are following the management
    edict to that effect!???
    Reading further, I think that your concern is that the customer might
    then take the software (and license) provided to them and use it on
    many other systems.
    
    As for the first problem (providing s/w and license), there is a
    program in place that does this (in order to promote sales):
    Cust Serv. License Admin. 297-5222  for loaner paks
    
    These PAKs have expiration  dates and are therefore of limited utility.
    Of course, you can/should make it all legal with a Loan of Products
    agreement.
    
    As for problem #2 (distributing the s/w to unlicensed CPUs), this is a
    pervasive problem throughout the industry that even the best minds and
    deepest pockets have not mastered.  It's really only monitored and
    enforced through legal and administrative means.
    
    Tim

    I'm readin' betwixt the lines, too.  I encounter situations continually
    where a license is needed ASAP (usually because the salesperson or
    local geography dropped the ball) for the products I'm installing.  The
    salesperson/account rep/whoever usually said "Get them some paks real
    quick, it's OK, they bought the product".  Often not true, and then my
    badge number is tied to it, not theirs.  I stopped doing this and found
    that usually the issue was a sales problem that was fairly large and
    would be causing more grief down the road.  Without my intervention,
    the real issues were dealt with and the correct paks installed.
    
    In the face of a pending TFSO, my incentive might be a little low to
    put my neck out anyway.

    Mike,
    
    Sorry to hear your leaving.  I'm sure there are a lot of software
    companies out there that will appreciate getting a person like you.
    
    Al
    SAP US business manager

    There are approved methods for getting the customer a license for a
    short-term "loan" or "test."  This is not the same as giving away
    software.
    
    This is something the sales person can do, or a Digital consulting
    person, or another Digit-type who is concerned with customer
    satisfaction.  If you have any doubts about whether the salesperson was
    telling you the truth, just document it by sending him/her a memo and
    keeping a copy.  You know, "As you directed, I have....for the
    customer, based on your commitment that the customer was entitiled to
    this loan.  Please advise immediately if this was in error."  Put the
    responsibility on the salesperson if it makes you uncomfortable -- they
    are accustomed to assuming such responsibility and should not mind.
    
    Signed,
    A Sales Person

    If this customer bought software contract or they are still under
    warranty, Digital is obligated to upgrade the software.  If the
    customer does not purchase anything but your executives/managers
    are still asking you to do it free,  then those executives/managers 
    should be TFSOed because they are part of the reasons we are still 
    losing money even some people put down hard work and long hours.
    
    Regards,

    re: .5
    
    I disagree... to a point.
    
    Some projects or potential sales require common sense when it comes to
    supplying customers with free software. Most of the time this software
    is used in the customers environment to either prove proof-of-concept,
    provide tools for on-site resi (err, engagement specialists :), or for
    review by the customer.
    
    I do agree that *all* instances of this practice be documented
    somewhere in the business plan or related documents, even if it is
    after the fact. I've been in the position where a project may have
    failed or business lost if we didn't get a particular piece of Digital
    software onto a client's machinery.
    
    It takes common sense and an understanding of the agenda's of all
    parties involved to determine if placing our software on a client's
    machine makes sense.
    
    I won't comment on the specifics of the basenote since many, many,
    items are unclear or unsaid.
    
    --- Gavin

    Sorry for not being more coherent, I was doing diffrent tasks but I
    also wanted to put the note here, to force the sales rep to get on with
    getting the licenses to the cusomer. The guys who are staying behind 
    read this notes file a lot and I was sending them the message.
    
    Unfortunately, this is a major problem that our customers have come to 
    know. Our sales reps promise the moon to the customer and are not held
    responsible for its delivery. I think getting rid of sales support is
    actually a good move, finally there is no one to pass the bucket to.
    
    BTW. The license , internal kind, majically was faxed to the customer.
    
    
    Mike

Re: .0

I was one of the "Executives/Managers" at the customer meeting last week. I'm 
a Senior Sales Support Consultant. I facilitated the meeting based on a strong 
sense of urgency by the customer. Also attending were the author of .0, the 
Sales Exec and A DC Delivery Unit manager. I had proposed a consulting 
engagement to analyze the customer's Ultrix performance problems. The author 
of .0 is an Ultrix specialist.

The customer wanted us to react quickly and we needed to convey that at the 
meeting. This is a test case for us as this division of our global corporate 
account has not done that much business with us and we are looking to break 
into more opportunities there. The last thing we wanted to do was worry about 
software licenses. The customer gave the go ahead to do the performance 
study... so the software we were installing for the study (Fullsail) would 
really be utilized by Digital people. Everyone at the meeting felt that 
getting the software installed and collecting data before monday when the 
consulting started would be reasonable. I issued internal PAKs to the 
customer, making it clear that they needed to be returned and deleted from the 
system at the end of the consulting.

And by the way, I faxed the PAKs to the customer well in advance of this topic 
being entered in this conference.

Regards,

Jim Mickol
Xerox Account Team

> .......I issued internal PAKs to the 
> customer, making it clear that they needed to be returned and deleted from the 
> system at the end of the consulting.

    You should NEVER EVER issue internal PAKS to customers. There are
    approved methods of getting loaner PAKS to customers.
    
    Joe

    But Joe,
    
    'Approved Procedure' != Expedient all the time. I once obtained a 30
    day PAK for VAX Notes for a client investigating workgroup software. I
    was given a 30 day PAK, a lecture on why these APK's should come from
    the clients salesperson (who in the 6 months only visited the client
    once!), and NO renewal at the end of the trial period (just after I got
    the notesfiles created and populated with data). We ended up doing the
    project in HTML and placing WWW clients on their desks.
    
    If the approved procedure meets my clients neeeds, great. If not...
    
    --- Gavin

    re.-1,
    I've never had any problems in getting temporary PAKs for customer
    demos/trade shows.
    The message on the PAKS VTX page is as clear as it can be, but some
    people continue to ignore it.
    
    All PAKs generated by this system are strictly for use on Digital
    internal systems only. Their use outside  Digital  is  absolutely
    prohibited and subject to disciplinary action.
    

    Re: .-1
    
    Just took a look at the PAK page on VTX and your right. (Do we have a
    WWW replace for VTX yet?).
    
    And, if I work on a project and find an 'illegal' PAK, or I'm ordered
    by management to obtain a PAK for a client, and refuse to do it, I can
    also be 'subject to disciplinary action'.
    
    Luckily I haven't been in the position where I've been required to do
    this.
    
    --- Gavin

        I don't understand the discussion in its entirety but if you are
    interested in loaning software to customer and a PAK is required the
    two mechanisms are:
    
    	VTX SALESPAK		See Sales Update 24 No 18
    	VTX SWLOAN  		See Sales Update 24 No  9,10
    	VTX ACCESS		See Sales Update 24 No  10
    	
    I've used them as I believe this responsibility is for the Sales Rep so
    they can tract the business and sell the Product and License to make
    money.  These mechanism I believe allow you cut PAKs with different
    expiration intervals.
    
    	Regards,
    
    	 kam
    

VTX SWLOAN will get your customer a temporary PAK, but its tied to some 
telemarketing group in MKO (I believe) who are goaled on selling that software 
to the customer... not necessarily the goal in all cases.

I'll look into the other suggestions. If there is a quick and easy process for 
getting a customer a temporary PAK for a timeframe the Sales organization can 
dictate, I'll use it. The only way I know of to get a customer a PAK in hours 
or within 24 hours max is to use an internal PAK. I have used SWLOAN and it 
gets to be a pain arguing with the telemarketers about extending the timeframe 
and not to call the customer, etc.

I want to do the right thing, which is to satisfy the customer, without 
risking the wrath of the PAK Police. We need a process that will let us do
that... 

Regards,

Jim

    Who says there isn't any useful information in HUMANE::DIGITAL? :>
    
    I'm going to look into all of these options and try to help sales get a
    better handle on getting PAK's to the customers. As long as there are
    procedures in place to get get license PAKs to a customer from 0-24
    hours, I'm happy.
    
    --- Gavin

For what it's worth, the comparison of Digital with dinosaurs makes little 
sense: They probably became extinct due to events beyond their control (when 
the earth was allegedly struck by a giant meteorite). And while dinsosaurs 
apparently were not particularly dumb (for reptiles of their size), their 
level of intelligence probably had little to do with their demise. They 
simply could not physically adapt quickly enough to unforeseeable events. 

For Digital, the challenge is different. We have a lot to gain by being 
particularly smart as an organization (for computer makers of our size :-), 
and we have a chance to foresee events and to adapt. But when you are big 
you have to find a way to adapt THAT MUCH QUICKER... ;-)

    re -1,
    
    	Thats just a theory, I have heard that they were pretty stupid too.
    That probably did not help them. :-)
    Mike

Re: .16

Actually, there are a couple of problems with your argument.  The first, 
following Stephen Jay Gould (and Darwin, for that matter), is that 
organisms don't really adapt in anticipation of anything.  Rather, 
changes happen to organisms, and some of them confer an advantage, causing the 
affected organisms to survive better than those without the change.  When 
the environment changes, the organisms lucky enough to have the right
stuff get to keep living.  Giraffes didn't get long necks by stretching 
them to reach leaves on tall trees; giraffes with long necks got to 
survive by being able to reach leaves the short-necked ones couldn't.

For the second, even if an organism had the capacity to foresee events 
and could actually adapt, the organism's frame of reference (paradigm) might
cause it to misinterpret or ignore information.  Example:  the Swiss watch 
industry's research arm invented the quartz crystal, wich could replace 
mechanical movements.  The Swiss thought mechanical movements were just 
fine, so it was the Japanese who took over the watch market soon after.

FWIW,
	Scott

    Not to beat a dead saurian or anything ...

    ... but Digital would do well to be any percentage as successful as the
    dinosaurs, which lasted far longer than homo sapiens has to date (or, at
    the rate things are going, than we're likely to).

    ... and besides, the descendents of the dinosaurs aren't doing so
    badly... quite a few of 'em around the feeder this morning ...

    For what it's worth.....

    They found the meteor/asteroid crater that was responsible for the
    change in the Earths' climate, it was found in the Gulf of Mexico on
    the sea bed and measured around 4 miles across ( from memory ) . As we
    know, or have surmised, the resulting cloud of debris changed the
    climate of the Earth causing vegetation to die and the food chain
    altered . Result, those that could not adapt died .

    The same is and will be true for Digital, and however unsavoury this
    sounds to some people, the market has changed ( our food chain ) and
    unless we learn to adapt to the new environment the company will die .

    PJ 

    Why are we laying off a Unix specialist?  I thought that was one of the
    areas we were attempting to grow expertise in?
    
    Any ideas?

    re: .21  Bagging UNIX specialists ...
    
    I don't know about other regions, but we've lost every UNIX specialist
    we've ever had in my office to TFSO's or the threat of TFSO, where the
    specialists have gone on to work for other (more successful) vendors.
    
    I'm  sure there is a greater plan to all of this, but I can't for the
    life of me figure out what it is ...
    
    Geoff
    

    re: .21  Bagging UNIX specialists ...
    re -.1
    
     Same thing for office specialists a while back, same thing for Network
    specialists, same thing for anyone who was specialized. Same thing for
    rumored sales support specialists. Now you have europe saying that they
    cannot sell products because this skill set is so low. Have you seen
    some of the 911's that are out. Lots of good stuff, no one delivering.
     Some organizations do cuts for numbers sake. Some organizations
    believe that the employees must be highly trained in areas of
    marketable skills (mine happens to be one), some organizations cannot
    sell marketable skills because they 1- don't have them... 2- cannot
    sell.
     You figure it out, some parts of this company work, some don't.
    
    -Mike Z.

	After reading through this notes files I felt that it would
	be appropriate to include a reply that clarifies the Software
	Loan Program and what can be expected if utilized.

	Most important is the purpose for which the program was put in
	place - to drive software sales and to help leverage hardware
	and service business by providing customers with the ability to 
	evaluate software products prior to making a purchase decision.  
	Loans are done for periods of 30,60 and 90 days (with the default
	being 60).

	Loans that fall into this category can be requested via VTX 
	SWLOAN.  Turnaround time is based on a number of variables;
	has the customer signed the Software Loan of Products Agreement?,
	does the customer need the media or just a PAK?, etc.  Once
	validated, the customer is provided with all the necessary components
	that will enable them to conduct a complete evaluation of the
	product.  Loan requests are then assigned to a Software Telesales Rep
	who is responsible for following up with the customer to ensure
	that the evaluation is proceeding and that they are not running 
	into any difficulties.  They will continue to service this loan
	until closure at which time the loan will be dispositioned as 
	either a sale or a lost opportunity.  

	Although the main objective of this program is to drive software 
	revenue, we do realize that there are cases where loans are required 
	for other important purposes.  These loans are supported via the same 
	process and will be handled appropriately, i.e. no telesales follow-up.

	There are alternative resources for short term licenses that do not
	meet this criteria.  Taking PAKs from the internal VTX PAK infobase is
	NOT one of them.  There is, however, an organization located in Marlboro,
	The Corporate Software Licensing Group, which will supply temporary 
	licenses for periods of time usually under 14 days.  They support the
	need to provide licenses for demos, tradeshows, orders in transit, and
	other short term fixes.

	
	The Software Loan Program is in place to support the field in driving
	software business and not to hinder sales.  I encourage you to include the 
	program into your selling portfolio when applicable.  We would be more
	than happy to serve you.

	If anyone has any questions regarding the program, feel free to contact
	me directly at AIMHI::SOUCY or DTN 264-4620.


	Best Regards,

	Sheila J. Soucy
	U.S. Software Loan Manager
	 
	

    Sheila:
    
    Thanks for the clarification.  I have utilized this program on many
    occasions for just such emergencies that have been discussed here. 
    Hormoz is THE BEST, along with the telsales reps that support your
    business.  They worked with me every step of the way.  We now have a
    process since I get the PO's for purchase, that I call Hormoz or the
    telsales rep and give them appropriate DEC#'s for the sale so we don't
    look so silly when the customer has already sent the PO in and telsales
    calls them.
    
    Hats off to your organization and the exceptional level of service to
    us in the field.  I'd be lost without you guys....
    
    Sincerely........JP