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Conference 7.286::digital

Title:The Digital way of working
Moderator:QUARK::LIONELON
Created:Fri Feb 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5321
Total number of notes:139771

2875.0. "Info needed on Document Management systems from Digital" by BROKE::SHAH (Amitabh "Amend Constitution: ban DECAF") Thu Jan 27 1994 12:20

	A friend, who is a consultant to a large European drug manufacturer
	on information management, needs to know about the Document Management 
	systems	solutions from Digital. I recall seeing some announcement 
	in LIVEWIRE on Digital and Xerox banding together to form a standard
	in this area. Would someone please point me to the source of this
	or related information or someone who is in charge of this?

	There apparently is a notesfile on Compound Document Management
	System, but it's host node (pixel) seems to be unknown to most
	decnet databases. 

	Thanx in advance.

	-amitabh.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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2875.1here is a pointerAMCUCS::HALEYeschew obfuscationThu Jan 27 1994 14:165
I would start by sending mail to Art Lim or Janine Vercoe.  They are both 
in the program office of our Document management group.  Janine is at 
caldec::vercoe, Art is @mro.

Matt
2875.2OpenDATA ManagerEICMFG::AJKAnton J. Kuchelmeister, @PCSTue Feb 01 1994 02:196
    Why not let everbody know here that our product for this is
    
    		OpenDATA Manager
    
    We want to sell it, so don't hide it!
    
2875.3MRKTNG::SLATERMarc, ASE Performance GroupSat Feb 05 1994 01:231
Or CASEworks, or MEGADOC 250, or DECimage EXpress, or ECHO, or EDCS, or...
2875.4Others probably will followEICMFG::AJKAnton J. Kuchelmeister, @PCSSun Feb 06 1994 06:092
    EDCS?  At least this one has ended, - it's now OpenDATA Manager
    
2875.5Overload!BROKE::SHAHAmitabh "Amend Constitution: ban DECAF"Mon Feb 07 1994 12:519
	Re. .2-.4

	Amazing! I was given pointers to products like LinkWorks, Megadoc,
	WorldView, and Re:Solution. No one mentioned OpenDATA manager 
	or the others mentioned in .3. 

	Seems like we have too many related products. Imagine how much
	it can confuse the customer!! Is there a single person in charge for
	rationalizing all these? 
2875.6MU::PORTERthink about software engineers that think!Mon Feb 07 1994 14:247
>Seems like we have too many related products. 

Seems to me like we have too many products with absolutely
meaningless names.

I mean, what the &^%* does something called "Worldview"
or "Re:solutions" do?  
2875.7MUZICK::WARNERIt's only work if they make you do itMon Feb 07 1994 16:411
    Worldview is a product of Interleaf, so complain to them.
2875.8All you ever wanted to know...LOBSTR::BEICHMANTue Feb 08 1994 12:08209
Greetings:
    
    Some thoughts on Document Management, Imaging, Document Retrieval/Text
    Searching, Workflow  including document handling

    One of the problems with this discussion, as it always is, is that we
    are  imprecise in our use of terminology.  Below is a brief discussion
    of the  terms at the top and some positioning of various products.

    Document Management: Document management, at a minimum, provides a way
    to insure that a user is	
    	a) looking at the most recent version of a
    	   document	
    	b) able to find previous "released" versions if necessary.
    The focus of document management is on release control and access of 
    documents.

    Imaging is, IMHO, an underlying or base technology to capture and
    display  physical pages via a computer system.  Once you have images
    on-line you  must of course be able to retrieve and display them, which
    is why imaging  systems have developed document retrieval, workflow and
    even document management capabilities.  But the emphasis has frequently
    been on  developing vertically integrated industry specific ways of
    handling that  industry's paperwork by capturing and displaying images.


    Document Retrieval/Text Searching/Content-based retrieval: Document
    Retrieval systems focus is less on release control and more on 
    accessibility of information stored in document formats.  Studies
    suggest  that the 80/20 rule applies for how "information" is stored in 
    organizations: 80% is in documents, 20% in various structured databases 
    DB2-Rdb-Paradox whatever.  Find information located in reports stored 
    on-line involves either a heck of a lot of sophisticated indexing work
    -- hard to develop and harder to maintain -- or some method of
    "reading" (and  I use the term very loosely) through all that text and
    return items of  potential interest.

    Workflow (including document handling): A hot area and useful buzzword
    when talking about documents.  The corporate  world is beginning to
    clue into how we work being at least as crucial as  what we are
    supposedly accomplishing; thus the general interest in business process
    re-engineering, and the specific interest in workflow management (also
    related to groupware concepts). I don't have time to write, and you
    don't have time to read all of the discussion possible around this
    area, but, briefly, workflow in the *document* space attempts to
    facilitate the movements of documents (e-mail, forms, reports, drawings
    etc) between people on a network. The business objective is part
    control (who's got it now) and part elimination of wait states (a week
    in this in basket, a week in that out basket can really add up). 

    Industry Foci:
    In addition to the above, specific industries have specific needs for 
    certain kinds of document handling.  People managing drawings for
    plants  (chemical, nuclear, oil & gas, and aircraft carriers) deal with 
    configuration management, maintaining the documented model of the 
    real-world entity over time.  People managing product development and 
    support (auto mfgs, chip makers, pharmaceuticals) tend to call what
    they  want to do  document management and are driven by time-to-market, 
    concurrent engineering kinds of factors.  If you need more detail on
    this  kind of stuff, contact me directly

	JBEICH::BEICHMAN
	John Beichman @PLO
	DTN 271 6912


    THE PRODUCTS

    Document Management

    EDCS II 

    For all of its bad reputation, not a bad product and very well sold in 
    Europe.  Limitations had more to do with the VAX fixation than 
    functionality, although there were some of those.

    OpenDATA Manager (EDCS III kinda)

Based on Objectbroker, EDCS II concepts, and Powerframe, OpenDATA Manager
    has begun to and will shortly  elimiate any issues of platform
    dependence for an all-Digital document  management software solution. 
    digital, HP, Sun, IBM (Risc) and the PC  Windows world are all
    supported in a client server architecture is a very  richly configured
    set of functionality for document management including  workflow. 
    (Much of the work done in the powerframe area is fully  incorporated in
    ODM).  It initial target markets are in manufacturing environments, but
    it is a heck of product on paper and initial demos are  very good. 
    Europe again is taking the lead and selling it hard and  well.  
                                                    

    RE:Solution/DECedms

    History time.  RE:Solution provides a VAX system based server, MAC and
    PC  client engineering documentation control system.  Certain pieces go
    back to  IMPEL days, but most of the product was developed by EA
    Systems.   RE:Solution (there is a reason for the cute name) was unique
    some years ago  in that it provided a PC client that could display up
    to a J size (that's  big) engineering drawing on a minimally configured
    386 PC (no expensive  hardware compression/decompression boards) with
    impressive speed. A hybrid  document management & imaging system. 

    Digital became involved with RE:Solution is a special SI project for an
    oil & gas company where we integrated RE:Solution with Excalibur's (see
    below) content based retrieval software and created DECedms.  Process
    marketing liked the potential so much they bought the company (80%
    share) from its owners ABB (20% share). We have since bought the whole
    thing and brought it in house.  Decent product in the right niche. Its
    future is uncertain (aren't they all) but I have seen plans which merge
    development with ODM and various imaging products such as DECimage
    express & megadoc (see below). 

    3rd parties

    NovaSoft (used to be NovaCAD) 
    Third party document management, strong workflow capability, used to be
    one  of our major Ultrix offerings, is also on a VAX systems today.
    demoes  beautifully, decent product.
    
    GEScan.  Only read the literature on it. Supposedly a good VAX based 
    engineering based document management system.

    Sherpa
    Very influential player with some major customers in the product  data
    management area. Excellent functionality overall. Haven't seen it in
    years, but it is still the  Cadillac in price and has a long track
    record.

    Lots of CAD related ones -- CAD vendors tend to offer ways to manage 
    drawing files online.


    Imaging 
    DECimage Express, DAS, Megadoc

    These are the applications which fall into the imaging definition
    above.  They are focused on capture and display of paper based
    documents, primarily  8.5X11.  Indexing, folders, some workflow
    capability in place. VAX-based  and SCO unix based respectively,
    although ports to OSF/1 are underway  (completed?). There is an
    installed base for both products, which suggests  any rationalization
    strategy must deal with migration issues. Megadoc is  originally from
    Phillips and is run out of Appeldorn in the Netherlands. DECimage
    express is Rdb-based for its indexing; megadoc is informix I  believe.

    Wang's Imaging system (works on vax systems too!)

    Nice to know you can come back from CHP-11 isn't it?

    IBM, Unysis are the other big companies who wish to be/are major
    players in imaging systems particularly in the banking and
    administrative/government spaces.  Xerox, Kodak and others have and are
    messing around in imaging as well.  BUT the big movement is at the PC
    level -- what a surprise, that's where the volume is -- with hundreds
    of imaging vendors demoing at AIIM  every year.


    Workflow

    Linkworks 
    My ignorance is total, other than the fact I understand it to
    be a  application integrator, providing workflow in the network PC
    environment.  Who has time to go to training?

    TeamLinks

    Document routing primarily I believe, but I left the Office world a
    long  time ago, someone else can fill this one in.

    OpenData Manager (Powerframe inheritance) Does provide workflow
    capability.

    Third parties in the PC world are emerging and, of course, get all the 
    press.


    Content Based Retrieval 

    I'm only going to list the two I've worked with:

    Excalibur Pixtex/EFS

    Snazzy fast, good reference sites, pattern recognition software, good 
    demo'er, expensive, runs on competitive platforms (rs/6000). Exclusive 
    focus on full-text search and retrieval.

    Verity/Topic

    Slightly  different approach to full-text retrieval, working with the 
    alternate approach of 'knowledge-based' retrieval.  Where Excalibur
    excels  in recall, finding everything that might be related to your
    query, Verity  tries to excel in precision, finding exactly the correct
    response to your  query.  I do believe that the Verity technology
    formed the basis of our own  CBR product, but I'm not a hundred percent
    on that and certainly do not  know the status of our CBR engine.

    Worldview

    Interleaf's product for technical documentation presentation across 
    platforms. Replaces Bookreader for Digital (and its customers)
    worldwide I  do believe. Never seen it.

    If people want to add to this list, feel free.  I'll be happy to 
    incorporate additions and correction, put in postscript and place it on
    the  net and voila, a positioning paper!

    regards,

    johnb
    
2875.9Nice Overview54291::VUURBOOM_RRoelof Vuurboom @ APD, DTN 829 4066Thu Feb 17 1994 11:479
    Liked the overview.
    
    Pity you didn't do all the products listed coz then I could
    have put a "Corporate Strategy Overview" sticker on it and
    run it past corporate engineering for immediate approval :-)
    
    Maybe next time...
    
    re roelof