Conference 7.286::digital

I saw the memo too.  I looked in VTX CALOOK (Customer and Account Lookup)
for East Texas State, and found:

	Alton Hall		@COP, VP Sales, CEM
	Earnest Williams	@OPK, DM Sales, CEM
	Winsome Dunlop		@DLO, Branch Manager Sales, CEM

I forwarded Bob's memo to all three of the above, explaining where I found
the memo, and if they could take action on it.  I also sent a memo to Bob
instructing him to get in touch with Winsome if his Sales rep was unavailable
and if he needed immediate assistance.  I further instructed him to get back
in touch with me if he did not get satisfaction: Russ G's office is just
a mile or two down the hall from me in MKO<:).

If this customer has money in hand (and only his Sales rep knows for sure),
we should be all over him like a dirty shirt.  If his rep is over committed
(who isn't now-a-days), then another rep should take on the sale.  Also,
perhaps there's history here we don't know about.  Again, only the Sales
rep knows for sure.

Gotta love the network tho!

MS

    There are tonnes of stories like this.  
    
    I once was a DECdirect Sales Rep (5yrs), where many a phone call would
    end up from customers who were frustrated like @#$%$#@@, and dumped all
    over the 800 line.  Of course we are hard to get a hold of, have you
    ever tried to look us up in the local phone book?  White pages, we are
    listed as follows:
    
    BTW this is taken out of the Gatineau/Hull/Ottawa Canada 1993-1994
    Telephone directory, from Bell Canada.
    
    (in Bold) Digital Equipment of Canada Ltd
    Corporate office
    100 Herzberg Rd. Kanata...........592-5111
    200 Bddela Technologie Hl.........772-7000
    Sales 2 Constellation Cr Nepean...723-3600
    Service
       No Charge................1-800-267-5251
       Acun frais-compsez.......1-800-267-2603
    Training..........................723-3634
    Order Status......................723-3712
    Technical Information
       No Charge dial...........1-800-267-6215
    
    
    We are NOT listed in the yellow pages.
    No mention of DECdirect,Services offerred, no flashy ads in the Yellow
    pages, pretty low key!  
    
    Hmm, what about distributors, surely there is a list in the Yellow
    pages of who distributes Digital products??  Nope, couldn't find them
    either.
    
    
    It has been my experience, that even our phone#'s on our invoices are
    misleading.  They do not direct the customer back to the Order Status
    line, as above, BTW that line goes to a sales Secretary, who then
    switches the caller to either the local CAS or to DECdirect.
    
    Or in the case of after sales service, the invoices do not highlight
    where to call, or the services that are offerred.
    
    Our receptionists, may or may not know where to send a customer, many a
    customer has wound up getting bounced a half a dozen times before
    someone takes ownership of the call.  
    
    I had a personal friend try to purchase 3 PC's from, us.  DECdirect, at
    first did not want to handle them, they tried to find out more info,
    needing some hand holding, so they were directed towards, a
    distributor.  Upon calling them, they no longer sold Digital PC's, with
    out a reference to who did, they tried the phone book, calling the
    headquarters, in Kanata, got bounced around.  Finally called DECdirect
    back, BTW they knew about DECdirect because I had educated them. 
    DECdirect then helped them to get on the track, but once the order was
    placed, they had to call several times to find out why it hadden't
    shipped in the time frames advertised (48 hrs.)
    
    What a mix up.  By this time he called me, I am now in Multivendor
    Customer services as a product manager, and I listened to his tale,
    chased it for him, and found out as we spoke over a couple of days, how
    hard it was for a customer to do business with us.  They had $$ to
    spend, but we didn't know how to take it.
    
    
    GP 
    
     
    
    

        .2

    people inside DEC dont even return mail to other DECeees inside DEC, so 
    we should not be that surprised when we hear stories like this.

    it is not like it is so unusual.

    how many times have you send mail to another DEC person asking/inquiring 
    about something and never got back a reply?

    my first experience in DEC was one like this. and as they say, first
    impression is hard to change.

    \nasser

    the impression by many of us in the field is that with the prime
    directive being to drive the cost of sales down, we're basically living
    on borrowed time. my management keeps drilling into me that MY value
    added doesn't have much to do with the huge quantities of product
    knowledge i have. at least not without charing the customer a
    ridiculously high (200/hr) price.
    
    i work in the netork space. our products, those of our competitors,
    and the industry in general are more complicated now than ever before.
    and it seems to me that senior management tends to lean towards a
    "commodity mind" where stuff will sell it self. well it ain't.
    
    and to top it off there is ALMOST NO ONE LEFT in many places to sell
    our stuff. i've not have seen any levels of management acknowledge that 
    THAT MIGHT be part of the problem. instead, we get pounded on regularly
    to practice "operational discipline". that's bean counting for those
    that might not know what it means. i could easily become a superstar in
    my organization without benefiting DEC at all. all i have to do is
    dedicate myself to operational discipline and bingo. i become a super
    star. 
    
    no thanks.

    
    I watch the net from my house:-)... takes an extra day for the mail to get
    there.
    
    I've sent mail to Winsome and will get on the phone to the ETU people
    for a configuration first thing Monday Morning.
    
    
    
    Here's my PRIVATE E-mail response to the Bob's comp.sys.dec posting.
    
    
    
    
From:	ROVER::SYSTEM       "John Wisniewski DFWLUG BBS SYSOP (214)270-3313" 28-NOV-1993 17:34:26.17
To:	uucp%"[email protected]"
CC:	SYSTEM      
Subj:	Digital Sales Rep

X-News: fallout comp.sys.dec:14203

>From: [email protected] (Bob Wier)
>Subject:Digital Sales Rep
>Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1993 01:28:08 GMT
>Message-ID:<[email protected]>

>Since it appears a number of DEC people read the group, maybe
>they can help me out.  We've got a modest amount of capital
>money to spend and are looking at getting a new unix box
>(currently running several HP 9000 series...)
>
>I'm having a hell of a time trying to talk to the sales rep in Dallas.
>She's ALWAYS out of the office (except one time when she
>left a message saying she'd be in Friday morning - I called
>Friday morning and she was "away from her desk").  It appears
>maybe also there is a reshuffle going on because a second sales
>rep has come into the picture (but to be fair, we've only traded
>phone calls once).  

....deleted...


>
>Any contact suggestions at this point?
>
>======== insert usual disclaimers here ============
>  Bob Wier, East Texas State U., Commerce, Texas
>  [email protected] (watch for address change) 


Bob,

Sorry to hear that you're missing the sales folks from Dallas. I will 
pass the information along and make sure that some one contacts you 
for a quote.

But before that happens, What kind of information/configuration/systems 
data do you need?  I'm in the support organization in Dallas and can 
answer/configure any system you would like to discuss.

Please feel free to contact me (I'm sorry you only posted a E-mail no
phone number in your post) and I'd be happy to talk with you and have
the salesman fax back a quote ASAP..

Feel free to call me at the office or call me at home (I'm leaving to 
go to DECUS the week of Dec 4th so catch me this next week).


Again sorry for the interruption of service,

John Wisniewski
Open Systems Consultant
Digital Equipment Corporation
14131 Midway Road
Suite 800
Dallas, Tx 75244

work  214-404-6412
home  214-686-8107
BBS   214-270-3313 (use the Info account)


+-----------------+--------------------------------------------------------+
| John Wisniewski |         Consultant/DFW DECUS LUG Counterpart           |
| +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |   Voice:             214-404-6412                      |
| |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| | At Home:  [email protected]  (DFWLUG BBS)| 
| +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | At Work:  [email protected]               |
| Dallas, TX  USA |                                                        |
    +-----------------+----------------------------------------------------+

    Here is the Public comp.sys.dec response I placed for damage control.
    
    My only concern is that NET Customers who are having any configuration
    questions will start calling out of the blue...
    
    Sounds like we need a "DEAR DIGITAL" account funded and supported
    by Digital Corporate for ombudsman duties and general information.
    
    fyi... HP, SUN, and Microsoft already have these mail accounts...
    
    
    
    
From:	ROVER::SYSTEM       "John Wisniewski DFWLUG BBS SYSOP (214)270-3313" 28-NOV-1993 17:49:06.91
To:	wisniewski
CC:	
Subj:	Re: Digital Sales Rep

Path: fallout!system
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: Digital Sales Rep
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: 28 Nov 93 17:49:02 CST
References: <[email protected]>
Followup-To: comp.sys.dec
Organization: DECUS DFWLUG BBS *Dallas*TX*
Lines: 57

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Bob Wier) writes:
> Since it appears a number of DEC people read the group, maybe
> they can help me out.  We've got a modest amount of capital
> money to spend and are looking at getting a new unix box
> (currently running several HP 9000 series...)
> 
> I'm having a hell of a time trying to talk to the sales rep in Dallas.
> She's ALWAYS out of the office (except one time when she
> left a message saying she'd be in Friday morning - I called
> Friday morning and she was "away from her desk").  It appears
> maybe also there is a reshuffle going on because a second sales
> rep has come into the picture (but to be fair, we've only traded
> phone calls once).  

Bob, 

Sorry about the coverage in East Texas, for the Sales folks, it is kind of 
hard when you travel there from Dallas to keep a regular office schedule 
( I just got back from a 4 hour meeting at Stephen F. Austin that took 
  9 hours total time with travel and I live in far east Mesquite;-)).
            (Check the map you non-Texas lurkers;-)

Excuses aren't what I'm here for though, the most efficient way to handle 
this type of transaction is E-mail (eliminates the telephone tag...)

If someone in East Texas needs information, I would be happy to act as 
a conduit to the right source and as Net contact into Digital.

Please send me E-mail or contact my voice mail and I'll forward the 
information to right party at Digital for followup.  (Now and again 
I have been known to do configurations of hardware and software for 
Digital customers too;-)

Feel free to contact me if any of you need information about Digital
and again I'm sorry for the disconnect.

Sincerely,

John Wisniewski
Digital Equipment Corp
14131 Midway Road
Suite 800
Dallas, Tx 75244

work 214-404-6412
BBS  214-270-3313  (use the Info account to leave a message)



+-----------------+--------------------------------------------------------+
| John Wisniewski |         Consultant/DFW DECUS LUG Counterpart           |
| +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |   Voice:             214-404-6412                      |
| |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| | At Home:  [email protected]  (DFWLUG BBS)| 
| +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | At Work:  [email protected]               |
| Dallas, TX  USA |                                                        |
+-----------------+--------------------------------------------------------+

    Also in the event anyone really care's what's happening in East Texas,
    to lower the costs of sales, almost all the customers are being handled
    via Distributors today, who are all also based out of Dallas (2-4 hour
    car ride away)...
    
    But when a distributor doesn't followup, or the distributor process
    isn't explained (like when a customer insists on going direct to
    Digital because they think they're going to get a better price) 
    guess who get the black eye when something falls though the cracks...
    
    The folks with the name on the box...
    
    What's the Customer Sat solution when a Distributor is involved...
    Digital fixes it.  So much for lowering the cost of sales IMHO.
    
    John (Who has cleaned up enough of these issues) Wisniewski

    re: .-1  Lowering the cost of sales ...
    
    >What's the Customer Sat solution when a Distributor is involved...   
    >Digital fixes it.  So much for lowering the cost of sales IMHO. 
    
    I don't see the point you're trying to make. In any situation where a
    customer is buying a name-brand product, part of the reason they are
    buying is because of the safety blanket provided by the manufacturer.
    It's true for IBM computers from Computer City, Whirlpool dishwashers
    from JC Penny, and Kraft Macaroni and Cheese from Safeway.
    
    What *does* make a difference is how Digital chooses its distributors
    and how Digital both supports them and holds them accountable. In my
    personal experience, we have a marginal track record, with lots of
    channel conflicts and dropped balls.
    
    Whether Digital or distributor, an unanswered customer call is lost
    business, pure and simple. And in my mind it's a cardinal sin for a
    sales rep. People complain mightily about cost of sales these days.
    but I submit that our cost of sales crisis is entirely self-inflicted.
    Sales Management remains focused internally on turf wars while outside
    communications to the customers and distributors are ignored until a
    panic situation arises.
    
    Our cost of sales reductions are meaningless if they cause reductions
    in our sales revenues, and that's just what's happening. 
    
    Geoff 
                                           

    And Lucente has said they cut the sales force too much, we will be
    adding 250-300 reps. What a bunch of idiots! Distributors have alot
    less sales coverage, especially in remote areas. And they sell other
    products than ours, especially inside the box, usually 3rd party
    memory and disk.
    
    Maybe Microsoft will buy us & fix this stuff.
    
    Peddler in NY

    re .8
    
    I was refering to the extra effort that doesn't get billed to anything
    except a sales cost center when we have to fix a customer SAT issue
    with a distributor.  Sales Support ends up being involved and the cost
    of sales is the same as if we didn't have the distributor in the loop.
    
    It's getting better but for a while I felt like there was two salesreps
    on every account I worked with (a distributor and and DECrep...) and I 
    was the Sales Support...
    
    John W.
    

    re: .10 
    
    >                    Sales Support ends up being involved and the cost    
    >of sales is the same as if we didn't have the distributor in the loop.
    
    This point is very true. And I too have been in the situation where
    I've felt I had multiple masters, and me just the one peon. But it
    still doesn't negate the need for Digital to be in more cost-effective
    Sales channels. Our market coverage is just horrible, and it's not
    getting any better, if our customers *still* have to go to ridiculous
    efforts to buy our products. We certainly haven't won any kudos for
    our direct sales performance, so what else is there? 
    
    re .9 and distributors selling third-party hardware ...
    
    This type of comment really concerns me, because it sounds like the old
    DEC knee-jerk reaction. Do you truly believe that a Digital Sales Rep
    can dictate to a customer what he can and cannot buy? Do you feel that
    distributors have some hidden motive for offering third-party products?
    
    I'll let you in on a little secret: many of our distributors are more
    loyal to DEC products than our own Sales force. In my own office, the
    largest single contract we've ever won wasn't for DEC products, it was
    for NEC laptops. We sell as much third-party hardware as any *two* of
    our distributors, and a lot of it directly competes with our own stuff.
    
    In short, the goal of Marketing is to make the customer want to buy
    what you sell. The goal of Sales is to sell what the customer wants
    to buy. If that's third-party stuff, so be it, as long as there's a
    profit in it.
    
    Geoff

The reason distributors sell 3rd party disks and memory is because customers 
demand it...it's less expensive and those customers don't see any value added 
between Digital commodities and 3rd party.

Maybe we should consider an alternate line of disks and memory with the quality 
of the 3rd party products and a price to match!  All things being EQUAL ($), 
the customer will buy big Digital products.

In fact, let's sell the crappy stuff as our normal product line and sell our 
current products as "the Premium Line - for those who can afford the very 
best"!

Of course, we'd need a good solid marketing campaign to promote this...

dream on...

Rick C

    This issue started with a customer calling for information, many times,  
    and getting no answer. From having experienced the same thing many
    times that is most irritating. I am surprised that the second call 
    wasn't something like, "Since you don't want my business, I am going
    somewhere else". Not returning phonecalls in a timely manner is 
    inexcusable. Simply put, "I don't want to hear about the labor pains,
    I just want to see the baby".
    

    Re: .13
    
>                                   I am surprised that the second call 
>    wasn't something like, "Since you don't want my business, I am going
>    somewhere else". 
    
    Second call? If I called a car dealer and told him I had $20k (in my
    hand) to spend on a shiny new car and the dealer didn't return my call,
    there would be _no_ second call...
    
    
    Glenn

Six of our VPs (including one SLT member) held a session at DECUS this week to 
hear from the customers...and they got an earful! The room was standing room 
only and the line was 10-15 people deep to get at the micrphone. Scheduling an 
additional session was urged by those customers in attendance. All of the 
comments I heard were negative and related to our Business Practices or our 
shoddy service and sales activities. Visibility (read advertising) was also a 
common thread among the comments.

My suggestion is to have the entire SLT at one of these sessions. I bet it 
would fill whatever room they held it in and the SLT would hear first hand 
that many things are still broken in this company of ours (I'm not sure they 
realize that).

The VPs were busy taking notes and promised to follow-up with the customers 
who had specific issues. I talked to one of the VPs afterward and told him I
wish I was empowered to help these customers. He said there was a group in 
Merrimack chartered to do just that. I suggested that few of the customers in 
the room knew about that group and he agreed.

If any VPs or other senior leadership read this note, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do
more direct customer interaction such as this particular DECUS session. Listen 
and then take swift and definitive action. Our customer are frustrated and 
fed-up, we will force the loyal customers we have left to go to the
competition if we don't start addressing their issues.

Regards,

Jim Mickol
Senior Consultant
Xerox Account Team
Rochester, NY

Note 2800.15                     Seen on the Net                        15 of 15
RCOCER::MICKOL "$SET DEC/BRAND_IMAGE=DIGITAL"        31 lines   9-DEC-1993 04:50
                     -< Veeps get strong dose of reality >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>who had specific issues. I talked to one of the VPs afterward and told him I
>wish I was empowered to help these customers. He said there was a group in 
>Merrimack chartered to do just that. I suggested that few of the customers in 
>the room knew about that group and he agreed.

I suggest there's a majority of customer-focussed people in Digital
who don't know that, either.

And what use is a solitary group in Merrimack when the customer is a global
one like yours (Xerox)?

    
    Was the session taped?
    

    
    
    > He said there was a group in Merrimack chartered to do just that.
    
    Another mistake.  It should not be a GROUP CHARTER but a RESPONSIBILITY
    of every Digital employee.  SATISFY THE CUSTOMER.  That should be the
    first and foremost bullet in everyone's job description no matter who
    you are.  If there's a customer in front of you and you can take action
    to satisy him/her then YOU should be empowered to do that.  We can
    worry later about who should pay or whatever else.
    
    Steve
    

re. -1
Jim was not talking about customer satisfaction. Jim was talking about a group
chartered to take care of specific business issues.

Joerg

    
    Re: .19
    
    > Jim was not talking about customer satisfaction.  Jim was talking
    > about a group chartered to take care of specific business issues.
    
    I understood that.  But tell me, what would you call a customer who
    has "specific business issues" with Digital?  I'd call that an
    unsatisfied customer.  My point is that chartering a group to do it
    is the wrong way to go.  If Jim has unsatisfied customers then Jim
    should be authorized and responsible for setting it right.  If he
    has to call in a group from Merrimack to do it, we're not likely to
    be successful.
    
    Steve
    

    
    The group in Merrimack is U.S. Customer Relations. Call them at
    1-800-DEC-INFO. 
    
    MikeJ

The group in Merrimack, as I understand it, is chartered to solve customer 
problems that have not been addressed locally. I have not dealt with them and 
really didn't know they existed until this session. If they are truly the 
quick response customer damage-control group I think they are, we should be 
hearing something from them...first that they exist and second, the sorts of 
problems they are addressing so we can learn from our mistakes.

Here is an example of how I think we ALL should behave. I'm not telling you
this to toot my own horn. I am on the Xerox Corporate Account Team. I am
measured on selling to Xerox and only Xerox. I am based in Rochester, NY. 

At the DECUS "Digital Listens!" session (that's what the flyer called the VP
session), one of the customers was from Kodak in Rochester and he had a
complaint about MCS (aka Field Service aka Digital Services). After the
session I went up to the customer, introduced myself, asked if the problem was
an isolated incident or an ongoing problem (he said both) and whether he had
worked the issue through the MCS Unit manager (He had). I gave him my business
card, told him if he had any further problems to let me know. I the told the
MCS VP (Peter Mercury) that I would follow-up and then immediately called the
local MCS Unit manager to give him a heads up and suggest he do something 
further to address the problem (as it turns out he had just met with this very 
customer the week before).

Hearing the various customer horror stories really made me sick. There were 
loyal long-time Digital customer virtually begging the VPs to fix things so 
they wouldn't have to look to the competition. One customer quote was:
"I want to buy from Digital, but you are making it so difficult to do so. You 
do not seem very hungry for my business."

The SLT needs to hear these things.... soon.

The session was not taped as far as I could tell.

Regards,

Jim

    No sessions were taped at the DECUS because of cost constraints and
    because the Electricians wanted big $$ to hookup the various rooms
    for sound.  This is what was relayed to me when I asked about 
    session tapes.
    
    
    As to the VP at DECUS ... It's unimportant what they think, they're 
    just 3500 of our most loyal and largest customers.  If they have 
    trouble spending their money with Digital we'll get around to them 
    eventually and give them the honor of taking their money.
    
    *NOT*
    
    I was there, I was dressed as a DECUS attendee and talked with the 
    folks around the lunch table and in the campgrounds.
    
    Folks thought the DECUS Board, and Digital's VPs were very out of 
    touch with reality and uninterested in thier problems.  
    
    One guy at the Lucente's Keynote begged him to sell him an Alpha that
    he's been trying to get his DECsales rep to configure and sell him for 
    two months...
    
    Another Contrasted Alpha to Intel and PowerPC ads stating that he can't 
    sell Alpha to his boss if he doesn't even know what it is...
    
    Yet another complained that Digital just handed them off to some other
    company to do business with (they didn't realize they were working with
    a Digital Distributor -- it hadn't been explained to them...)
    
    
    
    And as to the DECUS board.. They fired the Symposia Volunteers and 
    cut off funding DSC and DECUServe access over tymnet, pulled LUG 
    funding and are going to hand the next symposia over to professional
    trade-show workers (to save money)...
    
    
    Next DECUS is going to be ....Interesting...
    
    
    JohnW 

    Taping of DECUS sessions was not done because the vendor who was to
    do the taping requested an additional $23K from DECUS to do it.
    The rooms were all wired for taping.
    
    I was also at Lucente's keynote (which, though scheduled at least
    six months in advance for Tuesday, as it always is, got moved to
    Monday because Lucente claimed a "scheduling conflict" a few weeks
    before the symposium); it was depressing to hear several customers
    say that DEC salesreps were refusing to take their orders, and that
    some of them ended up buying Sparcstations instead because Sun
    made it easy for them to do so.
    
    					Steve

    
    >Taping of DECUS sessions was not done because the vendor who was to
    >do the taping requested an additional $23K from DECUS to do it.
    >The rooms were all wired for taping.
    
    I thought I heard something about electricians or local Moscone
    folks too wanting some $$...
    
    It wasn't explained publicly, just announced / Dumped on the folks,
    rumors flew wild last week...some of it was even true;-)
    
    
    >I was also at Lucente's keynote (which, though scheduled at least
    >six months in advance for Tuesday, as it always is, got moved to
    >Monday because Lucente claimed a "scheduling conflict" a few weeks
    >before the symposium); it was depressing to hear several customers
    >say that DEC salesreps were refusing to take their orders, and that
    >some of them ended up buying Sparcstations instead because Sun
    >made it easy for them to do so.
    
    The most impressive part was the 500+ customers who showed up at
    8:00am Monday Morning to hear what he had to say.
    
    Loyal customers?  We got em... But they won't stay this loyal 
    forever...
    

The information I related was given to me by Joel Richon, a member of the
DECUS symposium steering committee.  It's possible that BOTH are true - that
the extra money wanted by the vendor was to pay for the electricians.

The DECUS folks were as upset by this as anyone else, but they are running
at a loss right now and I don't blame them for not wanting to ante up another
$23K for a service which has generally lost money for the vendor in past
symposia.  However, I was told that they intend to have taping again in
New Orleans.

As for Lucente's limo - I can't get too excited about this.  I'd worry more
about his appearing to "not get it" when customers told him to his face that
Digital was too hard to do business with.

				Steve

    Here in the UK the message is getting through and receiving
    recognition.
    
    In the in-house newspaper 'Digital Today' there is a report of
    a customer letter which describes Digital as a company that
    "hates end-users".  It relates how the sender had tried four
    times to interest Digital in an ITT (Invitation to Tender).
    
    In the process he was connected to the same person twice -even
    though they could not help him - and he eventually put the 'phone
    down in frustration.
    
    Only now that Chris Conway (UK MD) has got involved has any positive
    action taken place.  Time will tell if we win the business...
    
    Calvin
    

I also was at Lucente's keynote speech.
I was NOT impressed.

He started by talking about how when he first started at Digital he asked if
there was an active user organization, and was delighted to find out about
DECUS.  He then went on about how critical he felt DECUS was to Digital's
long-term growth and success etc. etc.

Customers then found out that Digital had drastically cut funding of DECUS,
put that together with rescheduling at the last minute, and it makes his
comments look pretty disingenuous.  To say the least alot of customers lost
all faith in his credibility that day, and any other messages that he tried
to put out were summarily flushed as coming from an unreliable source.  

How can people at his level be so blind to the effect that they're having
on their audience?

>He started by talking about how when he first started at Digital he asked if
>there was an active user organization, and was delighted to find out about
>DECUS.  He then went on about how critical he felt DECUS was to Digital's
>long-term growth and success etc. etc.
    
    Wait a minute. He didn't know about DECUS before coming to work at
    Digital? Wasn't he in the computer business before that? That's pretty
    scary. DECUS is the largest user group in the industry. It's hard to
    picture someone in the industry not knowing about it. At least not 
    someone one would concider for a senior management job.
    
    			Alfred

>    Wait a minute. He didn't know about DECUS before coming to work at
>    Digital? Wasn't he in the computer business before that? That's pretty
>    scary. DECUS is the largest user group in the industry. It's hard to
>    picture someone in the industry not knowing about it. At least not 
>    someone one would concider for a senior management job.

Like I said, his coments didn't do much to bolster his (hence Digital's)
credibility...

Re: .29

I can vouch that Lucente said just that, though I'm open to the idea that
he could reasonably not have known about it if he wasn't a part of the
Digital user community.  DECUS may be large, but it's really unknown except
by those who have come into contact with it or Digital.

				Steve

> DECUS may be large, but it's really unknown except
>by those who have come into contact with it or Digital.

	Perhaps. But I worked for an other vendor for a while and DECUS
	was the standard they compared their user group to. I most everyone
	I've run into in higher places knew about SHARE even if they were
	not an IBM user. And DECUS is bigger than that.

	It's also hard to understand a senior computer person not coming
	into contact with Digital to some degree.

			Alfred

  Re.32

  >>>
   It's also hard to understand a senior computer person not coming
   into contact with Digital to some degree.
  >>>

  I wouldn't be surprised if senior executives at IBM are not in touch 
  with IBM or the computer industry, leave alone Digital which was a 
  distant second to IBM's 60$billion.

  Harvey Mackay (Author or "How to swim with the sharks without being
  eaten alive" and other assorted books) writes a regular column now
  in the Sunday Business Pages of the Denver Post (and maybe other
  newspapers too). Last week's column was on "Arrogance" of
  large companies. He claims that John Akers used to be so isolated from
  IBM itself that he used to arrive in a limo and get into his offices
  using a private elevator. So much so, very few IBMers have seen him at all.
  It appears that Louis Gerstner, the current CEO walks around all the time
  talking to employees.

  So don't be surprised if ex-big-bluers don't know about Digital. After all
  we were competing with them in a market (mini-computers) that theywere
  not interested whatsoever until their AS400 series.

  Nari

    
    Re:
    
>  Last week's column was on "Arrogance" of
>  large companies. He claims that John Akers used to be so isolated from
>  IBM itself that he used to arrive in a limo and get into his offices
>  using a private elevator. So much so, very few IBMers have seen him at all.
    
    Kind of explains why Lucente is more worried about the existence and
    colour of his limousine than more substantive issues like making a good
    impression at DECUS.
    
    From what I understand Lucente's talk at DECUS that was scheduled
    months in advance was rescheduled at the last minute. Now in a company
    where everything should be customer focused (isn't that what Bob Palmer
    said) what could POSSIBLY be more important than keeping a commitment
    to speak to 100s/1000s of DEC's most loyal customers at the time agreed
    to? Maybe all the black limos were booked on Tuesday or something.
    
    Dave

    hey, Ed's got alot of problems to attend to.  I understand that he has
    leased a home in France (for about a year) so that he can make several
    trips there to straighten up things.
    
    I'll bet he made the impression at DECUS that he intended to...
    
    Mark

>I'm open to the idea that
>he could reasonably not have known about it if he wasn't a part of the
>Digital user community.  DECUS may be large, but it's really unknown except
>by those who have come into contact with it or Digital.
    
    My point was that he claimed to put great importance on DECUS, while
    at the same time (if he has as much interest as he claimed) he had
    at least knowlege that the funding was being cut drastically.
    The statement simply couldn't have been an honest expression
    of the situation, and most of the audience was smart enough
    to figure that out.
    
    Whether he know about DECUS before coming to Digital is beside
    the point.  He (in effect) told those folks what they wanted
    to hear, and then turned around and cut their funding.
    
    Kevin

Given the close relationship between Digital and DECUS, I would expect any
funding cuts by Digital to be preceded by measures to help DECUS sustain it's
activities as a more financially independent body. Did this not happen?

In the UK, DECUS have introduced membership fees, which have had a very positive
effect on finances, we are also looking at expanding our publishing activities.

For more information on the UK Chapter of DECUS, please refer to VANGA::DECUS_UK

Dave (DECrep to the UK Chapter).

    As I understand it, the effects are: (I'm sure someone will
    correct/complete the following)
    Membership fees
    Local User Group (LUG)funding cut/cancelled (You're on your own)
    Special Interest Group (SIG) funding cut
    Plans for the next national convention cut back to three days...