Conference 7.286::digital

    Ok, I'll own up.
    
    I do enjoy working in my area. I joined Digital back in 1989, straight
    from university. I had spent a placement year working in NCR. I joined
    as a technology consultant, and have stayed within this area so far. I
    currently work 100% with the BT Account Team. I find it rewarding,
    stimulating and exciting. 
    
    Sure it's not perfect, I could move on and get paid more, but compared
    to some of my friends in other computer companies, I'm really glad I am
    where I am.
    
    
    Greg
    

    
    Re: .0
    
    I also am, day to day, happy with my work. I have a good manager
    (although she's now called a coach), who does not spend all her
    time breathing down my neck but is very supportive when I need
    it.  I am a technical writer, and I like to write, which helps.  
    I've been experimenting with delivering on-line information in a 
    variety of formats lately (most of it on my own time and equipment, 
    but to, I hope, Digital's benefit.)
    
    I work at home about 1 day per week (and probably will continue
    to do so until I get a PC on my desk here).  The only complaint
    about that is that the commute costs for that day are replaced
    by long distance phone bills to read/respond to mail.
    
    Lately, I've been averaging 60 hours per week, but much of my
    extra hours are devoted to learning skills I can put to use on
    the street if necessary.  The hours I've been putting in are
    somewhat of a burden to my wife (my kids are 21 and 16, so it's
    less of a problem for them), but she understands the issues.
    
    So, all in all, it could be worse.  If I was unchallenged by
    the work, or if I really thought, in my gut, that Digital wouldn't
    turn it around, I'd be very seriously looking about.  As it stands
    now, I do a lot more networking on a just-in-case basis.
    
    Glenn
    

	I re-entered Digital from GEEP to join Rdb Software Quality
	Engineering in January 1993. It's fun working with a product that is
	the world leader in performance, commands the largest share of its
	market, and has management that actually cares about quality. Our
	engineers are top notch, and we're constantly trying to improve
	functionality, performance, and quality, all the while maintaining a
	semi-annual release schedule that, with MUPs, ends up meaning FIVE
	releases per year.

	There are plenty of frustrations to deal with, from an inability to
	find good people for our job openings to actually having to convince
	other organizations that it's in the best interests of the company
	to sell Rdb over Oracle. Time and market pressures are always biting
	at our heels, and there are never enough resources for the infinite
	amount of available work. On balance the positives far outweigh the
	negatives.

	Roy

    Things are swingin' here at DECWest in Bellevue, WA, deploying products
    for AXP OSF for Commercial UNIX and doing the AXP port of NT. 

    We're jammin in the Base group, Atlanta Georgia.  Good managers.  They
    are there when you need them.  They don't crack the whip.  And everyone
    is like a team, and supportive of each other.  Sure, work has its ups
    and downs, and I am glad I am here, and not somewhere else.
    
    bob
    

    Greg, please let us know if "BT" is Bankers Trust or British Telecom.
    
    I thought Bankers Trust is in the midst of ending their information
    systems partnerships with Digital in a big way.  If the latest news
    regarding Bankers Trust is positive then it ought to be communicated
    a bit better.

    re .5
    What's the Base group?
    

    re:  .0
    
    I don't think this was totally clear.  I was looking for GROUPS where
    the morale was high, as opposed to individuals.

    >    Greg, please let us know if "BT" is Bankers Trust or British Telecom.
    
    BAHTAT is located in Leeds, England so BT = British Telecom is a good
    bet.
    
    			Alfred

    BASE is Quality Base Management, or installed base, i.e., hardware and
    software renewals and warranty conversions, and I'll bet Bob's GROUP's
    opinions would differ.
    
    Toodles.......JP   8^)

Yep BT is British Telecom. Sorry for any confusion.

Greg

    This job description was put on the system yesterday.  28AN Hardware
    Eng. Mgr in Shrewsbury Ma.
    "RQMNTS: Bachelor's degree in engineering, computer science or equiv.
    8 yrs. exp. supporting storage products & proven skills working with
    customers. A working supv. for pre and post sales support. Provide h/w
    & s/w technical support to OEM's, VAR's, and distributors for Storage-
    Works products on SUN, Novell, SCO Unix, & other non-Digital platforms.
    Direct customer interface as well as internal eng. and sales
    interaction. ABILITY TO PERFORM MAGIC, ON OCCASION, IS DESIRED." (caps
    are my addition.)
    
    My question is - Is there anybody in SHR that can confirm these job
    requirements? If so, what forms of magic are required, cards tricks,
    levitation, pulling rabbits out of a hat? If this is true, then this
    group in SHR would qualify as a "happening place," thus answering the 
    base note question.
    
    All that is missing is the mirrors.

    Once a year (at best) somebody (manager, customer, competitor,
    coworker) says, "It is impossible to do X," and I am able to do
    X in short order.  It makes my month.  In fact, if this doesn't
    happen to you for a few years, change jobs.  Yours is too hard or
    too easy.  In my 20 years with 4 electronics companies, these rare
    occassions are my fondest memories.  Some with DEC were also highly
    profitable.  An engineer in the right place at the right time can
    sometimes "earn" his annual salary in a day.  Funny how 'working hard'
    gets beat every time by 'working smart.'
    

Great description, and great source of satisfaction! But regarding
working smarter vs harder, if you're working conscientiously (not
blindly harder), the odds of being in the right place at the right time
with the right answer seem to improve.

Re base note, I wonder if people don't make a lot of their own morale ...

    >       <<< Note 2610.10 by CVG::THOMPSON "Radical Centralist" >>>
    
    >>Greg, please let us know if "BT" is Bankers Trust or British Telecom.
    
    >BAHTAT is located in Leeds, England so BT = British Telecom is a good
    >bet.bet.
    
    We've also had dealings with Bankers Trust over on this side of the
    pond. They have two large sites in the city of London. I helped install
    the dealer room in the newer building just round the corner from
    Liverpool St, Station.
    
    POL (who was there till 3:00 am on each of the three days before go-
    live swapping out VR299's for VR290's coz the bank liked them better)

    I have started a small group working on portables. We have firmware,
    hardware, and software people all working together in a lab to hump
    out prototypes ASAP. The group is highly energized, working on
    something new, and quite exciting. 
    
    Instead of lamenting the state of my job 8 months ago, I took it upon
    myself to change it. Now we are having fun. It could all fall apart,
    but this is better than it was... plus we are linked with other groups
    who are working on related stuff.

    
	By the way, our portables require significant power management
	architecting and implementation work. Nancy K of VMS fame is
	driving the efforts in this discipline. Please contact Nancy
	or me if you are interested in either of the two potential slots.
							Rich Dischler
							KELVIN::RDISCHLER

Two exciting software engineering job openings!  Contact Nancy Kronenberg,
KELVIN::KRO, DTN 223-2941, if interested.

               OPENING FOR PRINCIPAL SOFTWARE ENGINEER

This job is in the Emerging Technlogies Group, working on  prototyping
software-controlled power management for an NT notebook.  The group is
small and low overhead and is doing hardware as well as software.  The
role  is that of an individual contributor who will do software design
and implementation.  Longer term, a power management architecture  and
product development work may be undertaken.

Required experience and skills:

      -  C program development;

      -  Experience in design and implementation of device drivers  in
         VMS, or Windows NT.

      -  Alpha architecture;

      -  User level knowledge of MS-Windows;

      -  Acquaintance with specifications (or drivers) of some popular
         PC I/O devices.

      -  Excellent written and verbal communications skills;

      -  Curiosity, and a desire to learn and invent.

Desireable experience and knowledge:

      -  Writing Alpha assembly language;

      -  Developing NT system code or drivers;

      -  Writing Windows applications;

      -  Acquaintance  with  Intel  architecture,  particularly  power
         management;




               OPENING FOR CONSULTING SOFTWARE ENGINEER

This job is in the Emerging Technlogies Group, working on  prototyping
software-controlled power management for an NT notebook.  The group is
small and low overhead and is doing hardware as well as software.  The
role  is that of an individual contributor who will help with software
planning and do software design and implementation.   Longer  term,  a
power  management  architecture  and  product  development work may be
undertaken.

Required experience and skills:

      -  C program development;

      -  Familiar with internal design  of  the  kernel  and  hardware
         layers of at least one of:  VMS, Windows NT, Unix.

      -  Alpha architecture;

      -  User level knowledge of MS-Windows;

      -  Ability to help plan and schedule small  projects  that  have
         limited resources and contributions from multiple groups;

      -  Excellent written and verbal communications skills;

      -  Curiosity, and a desire to learn and invent.

Desireable experience and knowledge:

      -  Writing Alpha assembly language;

      -  Developing NT system code or drivers;

      -  Writing Windows applications;

      -  Experience in developing architectures;

      -  Acquaintance  with  Intel  architecture,  particularly  power
         management;

      -  Acquaintance with specifications (or drivers) of some popular
         PC I/O devices.

    The "Printer Group" (components and peripherals, video image and print
    systems, hardcopy engineering) is an extremely fun and exciting place to
    work. Of course, I'd rather be on the beach with a cold beer and
    the winning lottery ticket in my pocket, but aside from that, THIS 
    is the place to be.
    
    The work is challenging, multiplatform work that spans operating
    systems from NT to HP-UX, Novell to VMS, SCO to SunOs, and best of all
    this organization has been consistantly profitable for years.
    
    The place is run on a very entrepreneurial basis, and there are
    boundless opportunities for an aggressive, bright engineer. If you
    are the kind of person who waits to be told what to do, and who is
    still betting their career on VMS and their BLISS skills, you dont want
    to work here; we'd eat you alive. 
    
    For the most part, the massive culture shock that is going through
    places like ZKO isnt really happening here; we never WERE part of the
    VMS/DEC-centric mainstream, and we have always known that our work exists
    only to generate profit. Project schedules are measured in weeks and
    months, NOT years, and we generate new products for new non-digital
    platforms at the rate of 5-10 a year. We are creative, we even
    sometimes rent non-digital consultants to deliver things quicker
    and better for "foriegn platforms".
    
    We are looking for a good SW engineer whose resume includes some VMS
    but whose interests and experience lie in all the operating systems
    above. The work ranges from VMSINSTAL to real-time VAXeln code, from
    C to various shell scripts on various unix systems.
    
    We even have a req. If you want the job description or more info
    contact the group manager, JOHN DAVIS at REGENT::DAVIS and cc
    JEFF WOLF REGENT::WOLF and Amy Swotinsky REGENT::SWOTINSKY.
    
    If you want to be involved in work that actually generates the big
    bucks for Digital, then this is the place to be.
    
    On another note, I'll soon be looking soon for another engineer, one with
    significan MS WINDOWS and NT programming experience. If you think you
    are that person, send ME your resume. We have several funded projects
    in that space and we will need people to deliver them starting soon!
    

    
    Great!  are you saying people can't change?  Not only are we
    considering closing down the conferences, we're blacklisting the
    participants.
    
    

    Re: .20-
    
    	I'll submit that the author likely spent >20 minutes posting his
    input in .19, .20, .22 & .24 albeit after working hours assuming EST and 
    an 8-5 workday based upon the Conference timestamps and a reasonable
    time to read replies and compose responses.
    
    	We have no idea how many Notes may have been read (nor when) prior to
    the initial reply, if the noter has a workstation, is on flex time, is
    an adept typist, do we? 
    
    	I am not intending to coerce further defense of the opinions
    expressed. Maybe it's just me, but this seems too micro-management
    oriented for my taste.
    
    Phil
    
    

    .24
    
    Not to make you too defensive or anything.. but.. you surely will
    understand if some people on the receiving end of products produced, 
    or projects worked on, by "some" in your group, have a "slightly"
    different opinion altogether, right?           

>If you would like to carry this discussion further, as I said before send
>mail.

Why have you started this discussion?

>I will not be following this discussion

Bet you will! 

>Too busy...

Me too, to send mails starting a discussion between you and myself. In notes
different opinions will be made and I don't have the time to make them all
for myself. 

If everybody would start discussions via mail I bet you would offer more time
than starting discussions via notes.

Stefan�

I think ::LEVINE is correct about the visibility of what is written here and
it's possible impact on your career. For example, I would be reluctant to hire
anyone who exhibited narrow-minded, arrogant, or hypercritical views in this
notes file regardless of how good an engineer they were.

Dave.

.24> Again, it is MY PERSONAL belief that people who enter multipage notes 
.24> in non work related notesfiles during working hours may potentially have 
.24> developed work habits that will interfere with their ability to pull their 
.24> weight. This is MY opinion and I am only speaking for myself.

    ...or, they may be breaking into a new job, bulldozing through new
    code, and requiring frequent breaks as their eyes glaze over from
    information overload.

    ... or, they might be thoroughly discouraged and disgusted in their
    current job, having been misled and sidetracked by upper managers that
    couldn't decide their way out of a peper bag, and are biding time as they
    search for that elusive but exciting niche in the company.

    ...or, they could be in one of those lulls in a job that they
    know from years experience has peaks and valleys, and they are taking
    advantage of this time of relative sanity to recharge before the next
    inevitable crunch.

    Having experienced all of the above, I know that they are all viable
    alternatives to the "slacker" theory of noting. And it would be
    supremely ironic if someone in one of these situations, who is
    eminently qualified to fill your requisition, and who is
    only aware of your generous offer of employment because they frequent
    this conference, was rejected because of "too much noting".

I opened this conference today during a late lunch and found:

1. Russ Doane's vision of how work groups can function, and
2. This discussion.

It happens that until 18 months ago I was in the group that Rick Levine
described.  While Rick may be guilty of a little exaggeration (I personally
used to find time for maybe 15 minutes of recreational noting per day), he
is describing an environment similar to Russ's note, where work is performed
in teams, and there is substantially more interpersonal contact than in
the so-called "mainstream" environment I now work in.

Therefore, I state that Rick's premise is correct - if your personal
style and preference runs toward heavy reliance on notesfiles, then you
are probably not the proper type for that group.  No judgement here about
"better" or "more valuable"; just a recognition of different strokes for
different folks.

However, recalling Russ's note, I would ask our "networked Lone Rangers"
to consider that other possibilities exist for being productive.

bruce

Re: .32:

   If you're a lazy, no good engineer, please leave Digital, NOW!  I'm a hard
working competent engineer who happens to be addicted to information sources in
general while still performing my job quite well, thank you.  Please leave so
that there's less chance that others, including myself, are pushed out of this
company which the rest of us are trying to save.

   Judge your applicants and workers by their ability to get the job done,
not by how hard they work.

   (By your standards, all the kids in school who stay up late nights working
hard on their homework deserve As, regardless of the fact that they got the
wrong answers, and the kids who were able to whip off the right answers in 15
minutes before class because they spent the entire night before reading SF and
listening to Pink Floyd instead of doing their homework deserve Fs.)

					-mjg

    
    Re: .33 and others
    
    Can we lighten up a bit here.
    
    Re: .32
    
    Rick, I think what touched off the tempest is that your original 
    note came across as having a certain "attitude" which perhaps you
    didn't intend.  I confess to having read your note and come away
    feeling irritated by it and initially thinking that what you 
    described was no place that I would want to work.
    
    Bruce's clarification did a lot, for me at least, to see what you
    were trying to say in a different light.  A group whose workstyle is
    heavily team-oriented with lots of people interaction does leave
    little time for being in your office with frequent access to notes.
    When you asserted that other workstyles were the result of bad work
    habits or ethic is when I think you got yourself into trouble.
    
    fwiw,
    Steve
    
    
    

re .34

readers should note that I am home taking a vacation day ... :-)

Steve hit it right about impressions, at least for me.  When I read the
comments about work ethics etc, it had such a negative impact that all I could
think of was, "VIPS is the group that developed the VT1000.  I CERTAINLY do
not want to work in THAT kind of group."  Of course, that would be extremely
unfair since all groups have a dog, now and then, and the whole group should
not be branded by one puppy.  Subsequent clarifications have shown I was
correct in not expressing my original apprehensions. 

That said, however, many folks work in an environment that is highly team 
oriented with considerable interactions during the day.  I often visit 
coworkers who have a workstation window up in the corner that is for reading 
notes.  So what?  Within earshot of my office are many coworkers who do not 
read notes, but spend considerable time discussing golf, bowling, professional 
sports, etc.  Is there any real difference?
    
Few of us keep 8:00-5:00 hours; I have never heard a manager tell an employee
to leave at 5:00 since they had been working for their 8 hours, nor to stop
logging in during the wee hours.  I know of a top performer who trys to make 
sure he has a game up and running whenever his manager comes into his office.  
The manager is one of THOSE folks who like to read others' screens.  The 
manager was confused for quite a while trying to understand how the employee 
could keep being a top performer when it looked like all he did all day was
play games. 

The point is to get your job done with whatever style seems to fit well within
your work environment. 

As Always, For What It's Worth...

Dave

    Hi Rick , Hi Bruce :-)
    
    I am posting this reply while I'm not doing anything else. Thats ok
    since no one complained last Sunday when I was writing Test plans I
    don't think they'll complain now. 
    
    I feel like an old timer (better than 10 years now!) spread across
    several aspects of hardcopy & video projects...( C&PS, no VIPS, no DSG,
    no TBU, no Hardcopy Eng..)
    
    Rick I think you said it well in .19 and .20. Interested applicants ought 
    to read both replies to get the true flavor of the group.
    
    Bruce, has time away mellowed your memory? Changed your perspective? 
    Moving up that management chain? ;-)
    
    /K
    

    
    Well I can say from experience, that the VIPS group "was" the best.
    I used to be in the VIPS CSSE group (for about 4 years).  I have been
    away from them for 3 years now, and would really like to go back....
    if they wern't in Mass!!!
    
    Why don't you talk to Larry and get him to move the business to Colorado.
    
    Yea, VIPS made the VT1000 and the LPS40... but they also made the VT100
    and VT220, and LA120 etc. etc. industry STANDARDS.
    
    Oh yes, I am noting during business hours, but I am 3 weeks ahead of
    schedule on my project and I have to be in a class in 15 minutes.
    

    Are there any exciting places left in DIGITAL... where folks DON'T make
    excuses for their noting in HUMANE::DIGITAL during GMA "working hours?"
    
    (-: sorry, couldn't resist.  Enough defensiveness, imho. ymmv. :-)
    

.35>> I have never heard a manager tell an employee
.35>>to leave at 5:00 since they had been working for their 8 hours, nor to stop
.35>>logging in during the wee hours.

OK, now you have.  I've done both of those things during my career as
a manager at Digital.  But then I believe that everyone deserves the 
opportunity to have a life outside work (but it's up to them to accept
that opportunity).  I also have witnessed noticeable productivity
*decreases* when people's time at work crosses certain threshholds. The
actual numbers vary from person to person, but I have seen many cases
where someone or a team would actually produce less net work in 60 hours
than they had in 40 or 45 due to increased mistakes and the resulting
rework.

.36>>    Bruce, has time away mellowed your memory? Changed your perspective? 
.36>>    Moving up that management chain? ;-)
 
Hi Karen :-).  I notice that noone asked why I left such an idyllic
environment :-).  Nonetheless, there were certain aspects to working
there that I am committed to re-creating wherever I go.

.37>>    Yea, VIPS made the VT1000 and the LPS40... but they also made the VT100
.37>>    and VT220, and LA120 etc. etc. industry STANDARDS.

Unfortunately, Art, your good examples are all more than 10 years old.  I
hope that in a few years someone can add some newer additions to your
list.

bruce

    
    Hi Bruce, I was wondering if anybody still remembered me.  The VT220
    isn't 10 years old and we sold over a million of them.
    
    But your right, it's time for VIPS to come up with another industry
    STANDARD.  Come out here and I'll help.
    

Re:                   <<< Note 2610.37 by SPECXN::BLEY >>>
    
>    Well I can say from experience, that the VIPS group "was" the best.

It was good.

>    I used to be in the VIPS CSSE group (for about 4 years).  I have been
>    away from them for 3 years now, and would really like to go back....
>    if they wern't in Mass!!!

I was with them for 3 years, but it's been 9 years since then.  And I would 
also consider going back, but not to Mass (I'm also in Colorado Springs :-)
    
>    Why don't you talk to Larry and get him to move the business to Colorado.
    
Great idea!  :-)  :-)

-  David

    SCO (Semiconductor Operations) is a pretty exciting place to work.
    Manufacturing leading-edge chips is a constant battle with the
    forces of nature, requiring teams of people with backgrounds in
    physics, chemistry, metallurgy, logic design, and applied 
    mathematics to come together. 
    
    - Dave