Conference 7.286::digital

    Correct me if I'm wrong.  I think I read that the commitment from our
    top management was to finish TFSO during Qtr. 4, because we didn't
    what to go get more loans (1) and that if we were going to do it
    IBM had a 26 week cap and our top management were going to emulate (2).
    
    Now, although I have not seen the official word yet, it seems that we
    will have a package after all.   I have some questions:
    
    	1) Our goal is/was 85,000 by FY'94 - have we reached it ?
           If not, then it is our manager's fault and they being
           accountable (or are we Lip Servicing AGAIN !!) should
           be terminated, for not doing what they were supposed to do.
    
    	2) When we do this new one (if we are actually going to do it)
           Will it be over in Qtr. 1 or we slip again to Qtr. 2.
           WHERE IS THE ACCOUNTABILITY ?????????????????????????
    
    	

    re: .3
    
  >  ... and the subject inspires laughter.
    
  >  ... The best thing I could say to .0 is: get a life.  Digital
  >  is just a company.  The rendering of Ken Olsen as a father-figure
  >  makes me puke.
    
    	Yeah, LET'S GET the basenoter.  Right!  Bash 'em!
    
    	"Real men" don't have feeling such as he expressed, right?  
    
    	Or having such feelings, AT LEAST a man should shut up about it,
        unless he can express it in an way that demonstrates his
        DOMINANCE in crafting their words better than others can!
    
    	One should only express oneself unless one's writing ability 
        is in the top x% of the population, right?
    
    	I don't think the basenotes needs to "get a life" so much as
        the 'reply' authors need to learn to let others "have a life"!

    As harsh as Joel's words are, I must admit that they are well
    conceived, well written and true.
    
    I have a sneaking suspicion that Joel can write a damn fine poem.
    How about it Joel?  Post one on us!
          
    

    
    I'm no long-term Deccie, but do feel dis-orientated by the replies to
    .0. Regardless of the quality of the poem, the text seems to indicate
    someone who feels he was loyal to the company, & now feels rejected.
    
    I don't know the writer, or any subsequent contributors, but at a
    purely human level the fact that a fellow employee feels this way would
    seem to call for some of the caring we are alleged to be good at,
    rather than the reverse expressed in some replies.
    
    I understand absolutely the Wall Street Way. I do not equate rejection
    of human sympathy as a necessary part of that culture, although some
    may use it as an excuse. 
    
    In my own circle, I'll try to meet external demands whilst using internal 
    sensitivity. I may not succeed, but it seems the only honest course.
    Some decisions will always be painful, but humiliation is a sad
    travesty.
    
    
    Colin

    re: .6
    
    Others, who share .0's feelings about Digital (which I gather you
    most emphatically do not), and who have different opinions about
    what constitutes "good poetry", may disagree with your assesment.

    
    This "other" certainly does...
    

    Hmmmm -- The message of commitment and pain in the poem were evident to
    me -- Some of the analogies were on the mark within in the context of
    how some DECies would view DEC -- The messages I walked away with were:
    
    	o The Bubble has burst 
    	o Reality has set in
    	o This person feels rejected after having done an admirable job.
    
    Joel has the right spin -- It doesn't matter.  This poem is the
    author's form of grieving -- Grieving is for a set period of time --
    Then a person gets on with life.
    
    It would have been nice for the bubble not to burst.  It happened --
    Now, let's get on with it!
    
    The Street Peddler

         I second that emotion ! Live free or CRY !
    
                                                       Peace,
                                                       -RAM-

    I worked in the guts of the Mill back in the late 60's and can relate
    to the feelings the author of the poem talks about.  I left Digital for
    about 12 years and rejoined the company in 1980.  Even in that amount
    of time away I saw a big change.  Change is constant.....it's extreme
    change that causes fear, doubt and insecurity.  Lots of us are
    experiencing the latter...whether or not we are being TFSO'd.
    
    We should feel free to express this and not be chastised for doing so. 
    It's human to feel feelings....live and let live...
    
    Lin
    

To those who don't like .0 or are unmoved by it... that's your right.

To those who commented that the author of .0 is grieving... of course
you are correct.  But is he grieving for himself or for Digital?  That is
the question you should consider.

To those who dismiss .0 as the author's "phase" or as silly nonsense... 
if you do not recognize Digital's very serious mistakes that the poem
references, then I think you are part of the problem at Digital, not part
of the solution.  Here are examples of issues raised in the poem:

	Abandonment of the consensus process, which (when it works,
	which is to say when people care about truth) makes sure that
	decisions are made based on real technical and customer data.

	Not basing decisions on customer input.

	Dividing the VMS and UNIX worlds into separte product lines
	and separate CPUs -- fortunately we're past that, but the
	battle cost us a lot of revenue and lost us lots of loyal
	customers.

	Institutionalized refusal to learn from failed products or
	strategies and punshishment of those who pointed out problems 
	in advance (they were troublemakers, not team players).

	Cutting projects and people in a fashion that seems to be 
	incredibly wasteful and poorly planned.  

	Expectations that employees should do as they are told and not
	raise concerns, rather than trying to expose and solve problems.

I'm not sure I agree 100% with the abvove.  I would have said that the 
problem was not that we weren't listening to our customers, but that
people were choosing which customers to listen to based on the short
term advantage to their own group or career, rather than trying to see
the whole picture and trying to seek what was good for Digital as a whole.
However, that was my experience and observation, your milage may vary.

As for the rest, the author is comparing Digital to a dysfunctional
family, where no one is allowed to tell "the secret" and those who
actually do tell the truth are punished.  Personally, I felt that by
the end Ken was himself part of the problem, but he certainly had a
reputation (well deserved at least earlier on) of caring about what
is right instead of just what makes a short term profit.

Finally, for those of you who have no experience with a dysfunctional
family and who have never been punished for trying to expose an
important truth so that a problem can be fixed... all I can say is that
either you are very lucky or your eyes are firmly closed.


	Larry Seiler

    
    Uncle Ken is gone.  
    Digital is no longer a security blankey.
    
    cbc

    
    	Hey Joel, want to know what makes me puke? No, well I'm going
    	to tell you anyway.  It's hearing people being congratulated
    	instead of receiving sympathy when being told they are TFSO'd.
    	People with 20-30 years at DIGITAL are finding themselves in
    	the 20-40-60 club.  You know what that is don't you?  No, well
    	I'll tell you.  More than 20 years at DEC (To some of us it's
    	still DEC) more than 40 years old and earning more than 60k 
    	per year. Imagine people being told how lucky they are to be
    	getting what is apparently the last "package" and then escaping
    	from what used to be the DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP.  Yup, that gives
    	me an upset tummy everytime.  As for Ken Olsen ..............
    	well maybe I had better not.  Have a good day!!
    
                                     Arty

re. this whole string

My problem is, and suspect others might feel the same, is I wouldn't know
good poetry if it hit me upside the head with a two-by-four to get things
started, so to speak.

What we need here is someone to translate all this into a County Western
type song. Then we can all judge using a more familiar yardstick.

    Arrrggggghhhh!  --- Joel -- Nice touch -- Good luck!  U got me!
    
    The Street Peddler

    RE: -1
    
    And the title of that song could be "Open up the woodshed I'm bringin'
    home a load..."    8^)  

I'd like to see what Bob Fleischer's intelligent text analyzer comes up with
for the "poem."

I couldn't get through all the way through .0, but I'm sorry that Mr. Grant 
won't be writing any more here.

Bruce

    
    If, in some peoples' eyes, Digital is parent, then I suspect quite
    a few employees would like to call the corporate equivalent of
    the Department of Youth services and report the abuse.
    
    Dysfunctional, indeed.
    
    Glenn

re: .22 "Bob Fleischer's intelligent text analyzer"

got any pointers to this software on the net?  what does it do, etc. etc. etc.
(trying to steer this conversation back to something other than whining,
berating, venting, and grieving...

	Joe

This conference is for discussions about working at Digital.  I'm
not sure which conference is appropriate for literary critiques, but
they don't belong here.

Personally, I don't believe that rudeness has any place in a notes file,
but I understand that Soapbox allows it, so perhaps some of the comments 
here would be better placed there.  Alternatively, they could be 
rephrased.

I'm willing to make some allowances for people who are personally
dealing with the emotions around TFSO, but .6 and .15 go a little too far.
The notes are guilty of many of the things they complain about.

   Gary

    RE: 2552.27 (Gary)
    
    Totally agree with your comments.
    
    Betty

> re: .22 "Bob Fleischer's intelligent text analyzer"
> 
> got any pointers to this software on the net?  

        See conference ABBOTT::CONTENT-RETRIEVAL note 55.13.

        (You just send text as mail to LGP30::EXTRACTOR -- it's that
        simple.)

        I feel I must warn people that this is a quick-and-dirty
        prototype that does better with certain forms of text than
        others.  The quickest and dirtiest part is the part that
        breaks a document into paragraphs prior to the natural
        language processing.  It works well for plain text with
        reasonably-sized paragraphs.  It doesn't work well for
        outlines, tables, long lists of names (as in mail
        distribution lists), etc.  It really isn't tuned for poetry.

        Bob

    Next unseen time for a certain gentleman. Glad I don't have to work
    with or know this person.
    
    And whoever brought up soapbox, good idea, take your vitriol there.
    
    Jim C.
    

    
    
    Well I wa going to say that it had a catchy beat and was easy to dance
    to........probably some of my Soapbox mentality coming out. ;')
    
    
    
    Mike

    
    Well Dick, I thought it had a good beat and the lyrics were okay.
    Overall, I'd give it a 7, but I don't think it will be a big hit.
                  
    Chubby Checker

According to note .25, "dysfunctional" means "a mentality
which enjoys the physical slaughter of human beings."

In other words, the author of .25 hasn't got a clue what 
a dysfunctional family is.  

	Larry

PS:  I read this file for comments about Digital, not for
literature or literary criticism.  I don't care whether .0
is good poetry or lousy poety -- it says some things about
Digital, and that's more interesting and useful than notes 
like .25 or its ilk.

	What the hell does this have to do with working at Digital?
	Moderators, can someone tell someone to take this drivel to
	Soapbox?

						mike

    Joel,
    	You appear to be more than just negative.  It appears you are out
    to get people mad.  Am I reading you wrong?

    Jim Morton

    -1.
    
    Frankly, I find it very refreshing to read Joel's comments.  So much
    tenderfootedness in here....so much correctness... 
    
    And, I agree...
    
    

    I have removed a number of offensive replies from this note string
    and have writelocked the base note.
    
    					Steve - co-moderator