Conference 7.286::digital

Only one thing makes me nervous - and that's appointing one person to head
both sales and marketing. I can't think of any organisation that's done this
and managed to pull this off well; I wish him the best in doing that.

In the meantime, the new Managing Director of Digital UK, to replace Geoff
Shingles' MD role, is Chris Conway. Before coming to Digital, we was IBM UK's
Director responsible for all sales into financial institutions...

								- Ian W.

    Jeez,
    
    Let's give the guy a chance. Its almost inconceiveable that we have
    been without someone at this position for such a length of time.
    I wish him the best of luck, he will certainly need that and
    much more.

No one is taking shots at this guy.  The point being made was that we finally
have someone in charge of sales who actually *has* bonafide sales experience.

Most of the folks who previously held this position came up through just
about every other channel except sales.

Now if we'd just put more of the right people in the right spots we might have 
a prayer of turning this battleship around.

I just read this again.  

  Digital has announced the appointment of Edward Lucente as vice president,
  Worldwide Sales and Marketing, effective immediately.  In this position,
  he will be responsible for worldwide marketing of products and services,
  corporate communications, and management of Digital's sales and sales
                                                                  ^^^^^
  support organizations.  He will report to President and CEO Bob Palmer.
  ^^^^^^^

What happened to the PSC model?  Weren't the sales support folks in the US 
supposed to go into the Professional Services Center like we used to be? Like
Europe and GIA never changed?  

In that model, the sales support folks fall in under Gresham Brebach.  What's 
the real deal here?

    re:  .0
    
    The IBM sales force is not what caused their problems.  Their product
    managment and business management hung on too long to a model 
    of reality that wasn't real.
    
    It is very encouraging that the new VP of Sales is a salesman.  He came
    up through a company that was highly regarded for its professionalism
    and quality in its sales force.  That was because it regarded its sales
    force as professionals and required the quality.
    
    I have seen ex-IBM'ers that were excellent, and some that seemed to be
    castoffs.  I expect this one is good.  If he can instill in the sales
    force a sense of professionalism and dedication to excellence, that
    will be great.  If he can instill in the rest of the company a sense of
    respect for the sales force, that will be wonderful.
    
    The test of that respect?  The day when Digits wouldn't think twice to
    see a salesperson rise through the organization to become CEO.
    

    re:  .5
    
    Hot d*mn!  You're right! I missed it too!  If this guy already got that
    disastrous decision reversed, I'll follow him anywhere!
    
    Wonder if that was a pre-condition of his acceptance?  I like this guy
    already!!

I don't doubt Ed's Sales track record. I'm not even taking shots at him.
We need someone to replace Ted Johnson!

Saying he has a track record in Sales makes me even more nervous. I still
ask for anyone to show me a successful company that has Sales and Marketing
managed by the same individual.
								- Ian W.

    The problem with all these functional announcements is that they
    continue to blur the "Customer Business Unit" model that is based on
    industry segmentation.
    
    The company still has an entrenched geographical organizational
    structure as well.
    
    As for the marketing function, we have (or had) Bill Johnson as
    Corporate Marketing and Rose Ann Giordano as US Marketing.
    
    You are not alone.  I, too, am part of the "Professional Services
    Center" (PSC) and we're all wondering if we're part of the CBU's, part
    of the "function", both, or neither.

    Did anyone notice today's (4/16) announcement in the NY Times?  At IBM
    they called him "Neutron Eddie for his willingness to cut staff".  Of
    course, Jack Welch (GE) has that reputation also and GE is successful.
    
    Jack

    re .8
    
    Every company I have ever worked for in the computer industry has the
    same VP responsible for Sales and Marketing. I think the question is -
    name one that is not organized that way.

    Ian,
    
    Here's one, a very good one too, in my opinion...
    
    Hewlett-Packard Computer Systems Organization (it is responsible for
    ALL aspects of PA-RISC businesses) has ONE VP for Sales AND Marketing
    (always has been that way), plus one must have direct sales experience 
    with HP on the resume in order to climb that high.
    
    Sales rules at HP.  Sales reps are pretty special folks there, and they
    are professional sales reps (ie trained to be one or hired from other 
    companies).  In fact it is not even "easy" to switch from other
    internal HP job to sales.
    
       - Ashikin (former HPer)
    
    

    Again not to be percieved as taking any shots (I hope the disclaimer is
    unnecessary by now), but what was this gentleman's track record at IBM
    and what circumstances did he leave under? They may well be spotless -
    I can't remember what I read in days past on him - but the fact that
    IBM reps used to be "very professional" is a very abreviated summary of
    their talents. What made them good & effective in the 80's is not
    necessarliy a recommendation for their style in the 90's. Then again
    IBM did loose 5.5B lately and did their perspecitve & approach to
    customers have NOTHING to do with it? Hopefully our new VP will be
    excellent - we surely have survived some characters, i.e. Chic Shue so
    I'm cionfident he is at least a step up.

    1) It is my understanding that Neutron Eddy (so called because after he
    came to town, the buildings still stood bu the people were gone) was in
    charge of an early 80's staff cut at Blue, went to run their Pacific
    rim organization and requested a 'demotion' to head a larger downsizing
    later on.  This of course is the 'legendary' version of what may well
    be a very different truth.
    
    2) If E.L. can just bring one thing to our company, may it be the loss
    review!  God how we need it!!!
    
    
    Don
    

<><><><><><><><>  T h e   V O G O N   N e w s   S e r v i c e  <><><><><><><><>

 Edition : 2809               Monday 19-Apr-1993            Circulation :  7018 

VNS COMPUTER NEWS:                            [Tracy Talcott, VNS Computer Desk]
==================                            [Littleton, MA, USA              ]

 Digital - Hires IBM veteran for key post
	{The Boston Globe, 16-Apr-93, p. 73}
   Digital filled yesterday what many analysts regard as the management slot
 most critical to its turnaround effort, naming a 31-year IBM veteran as its
 top sales and marketing executive.  Edward E. Lucent, named Digital's
 executive VP of sales and marketing, left IBM in 1991.  "This is a very
 capable guy who knows IBM's weaknesses and can exploit them," said William J.
 Milton Jr., an analyst at Brown Brothers Harriman in New York.  "I cannot
 think of a better choice."  After leaving IBM, Lucent, 53, became executive VP
 of Northern Telecom Ltd., an $8.5 billion maker of telephone equipment.  He
 resigned in March.  While Digital has already been reducing expenses, Lucente
 is likely to do some cost-cutting of his own.  Barry F. Willman, an analyst at
 Sanford C. Bernstein & Co., in New York, said Digital's administrative
 expenses - 30.4% of sales, according to yesterday's numbers - need to be cut
 to about 25%.  Lucent is qualified.  "He was the first marketing person at IBM
 ever to cut head count," noted Susan McGarry of The Yankee Group, a Boston
 market research firm.  In a telephone press conference, Lucente said that
 "most of the downsizing at IBM" occurred after he moved on to head IBM Asia
 Pacific.  However, he vowed that "if that is part of my job, I will do it."
 He also said he did not yet know his plans - beyond the company's already
 stated intention of putting its salespeople on an incentive compensation plan
 - but that he would spend all but three days during the month of May visiting
 customers.  "After that, I'll spend time with the organization to get an idea
 of what we do well and what we need to do better," he said.  He'll find much
 in the latter category, analysts said.  Digital has historically been an
 engineering-focused company but "the days of developing the box and having it
 sell itself are over," said Geoffrey Wollacott, president of a Pepperell
 market research firm.  "This company has seriously lacked a true polished
 sales and marketing professional."  Lucente will report directly to president
 and CEO Robert B. Palmer.  He will have some 29,000 employees reporting to
 him.  Among them will be William R. Johnson Jr., a longtime executive who has
 served as VP of corporate marketing.

    Permission to copy material from this VNS is granted (per DIGITAL PP&P)
    provided that the message header for the issue and credit lines for the
    VNS correspondent and original source are retained in the copy.

<><><><><><><><>   VNS Edition : 2809      Monday 19-Apr-1993   <><><><><><><><>

    Will The Five CBU Managers work for E.L.? If so, where does that put
    Gullotti?

    Gullotti is U.S. Sales & Services.  This guy is a corporate V.P.
    
    

    
    In other words, Russ will work for him?
    
    -Ed
    

re Ian's question about Sales and Marketing...

Each software company I worked for had a unified Sales and Marketing group 
that broke down under that manager.  Picking and managing channels is after 
all a part of marketing.

I can't say they all do it with aplomb.  After all, marketing and sales are 
occasionally supposed to be violently disgreeing with each other.

Matt

>Saying he has a track record in Sales makes me even more nervous. I still
>ask for anyone to show me a successful company that has Sales and Marketing
>managed by the same individual.


What is the differance between Sales and Marketing??

If your selling a product arn't you also Marketing it?

So doesn't Sales == Marketing?????????????

>So doesn't Sales == Marketing?????????????

    hi,

    i dont think they are the same, Marketing do things like write
    press release, Ads. in the paper and TV and about making study
    of which Markets is best to concentrate on and which age groups
    and to make survey about is this products will sell before going
    out and build it, and this like that.

    Sales is about going out and selling the products into the markets
    and age groups and segments of our community that the marketing people
    told the Sales people to go after.

    so it is like 2 close teams effort, marketing market and direct the
    effort of the sales effort, but both are important in the scheme of
    the overall cooperation strategy.

    hope this helps.
    '\nasser

    
    
    From Business 101:   Sales is part of the Marketing Mix, and therefore
    			 is a subset of Marketing.
    
    gb
    

    .-1
    
    >Sales is part of the Marketing Mix, and therefore is a subset of Marketing.
    
    i agree too, good point, it could also be looked at as a subset of 
    marketing.
    
    '\nasser
    

Re: Last few

I'm now even more horrified!

Digital UK was most successful when Sales and Marketing were led by different
people. With one person in charge, we reverted back to having someone with
a very strong sales background running both.

I have lots of examples where this has gone disasterously wrong. The tendency
of the people involved was to employ marketing as "Sales Programmes" and
focus only on the tactical. We're still trying to repair that damage here.

If you go to Kotler/Armstrongs "Principles of Marketing", one definition of
marketing is "Marketing is the business function that identifies customer
needs and wants, determines which markets the organisation can best serve,
designs appropriate programs to serve these markets, and calls upon everyone
in the organisation to "think and serve customers"".

For IBM with the AS/400, that was a team of 20+ people answering the questions
"who are our customers", "what do they want" ... and spending two years
pinpointing 17 key industry segments and 42 applications that were to provide
most of their future revenue. The sales teams were engaged a lot later.

If you want to see what it's really about, just read chapters four and five
of "The Silverlake Project", ISBN 0-19-506754-1.

The new CBU structure shows all the seeds of Digital becoming much more of
a market led company, albeit in "industry solution sets" or "volume apps".
For the time being, I have some folks in my group doing some strategic
software marketing for our territory...
								- Ian W.

RE: .20

I didn't see a smiley face on your note, so I don't know
if you have "tongue-in-cheek" or not.

Let me recommend, in that case, that you post your note in the ASIMOV::MARKETING
conference.  Members of that conference "may" be able to help you.

Good luck!!
Gerry

    re: .24
    
    Ian - "music to my ears".  A few months back I sat through a very good
    presentation given at DECpark (REO) by a Professor of Marketting to an
    audiance of Sales & Marketing (mainly marketing).  Simply put, he
    agreed with you.  I have notes which I would be very glad to discuss
    with you (781 1106).  However, the best bit was when he said "anyway, I
    assume that all you marketeers a very familiar with the tools of your
    trade (rattled off a few) and use them every day, so I won't mention
    them, just....".  There were some very embarrassed people in the
    audiance!  He then poured scorn over certain types of marketing
    campaigns, sales conferences, etc - most of which DEC(UK) had recently
    used!!!  Even more red faces!  If it wasn't so serious, it would have
    been hilarious.
    
    regards
    
    Chris
    

    We don't do marketing very well.  
    
    There are different levels of marketing, different ways to cut the
    functionality.  Our marketing traditionally has been too
    product-focused, and too simplistic.  A special end-of-year program
    (e.g., get a free goombah license when you buy a certain box) is sadly
    confused with a marketing strategy.
    
    Sales is one of the execution arms of a marketing plan, which falls out
    of a marketing strategy, which falls out of a business strategy.  
    "Marketing" also is responsible for executing some of its own strategy,
    using advertising, trade shows, background briefings to technical 
    analysts, etc.
    
    Sales doesn't work for maketing, exactly, but executes their plan. 
    Sales also looks to marketing to build an "infrastructure" that will
    make sales easier or leverage the sales activity.  For example,
    marketing Digital to increase brand awareness, or guide product
    development planning to bring to market the things customers need (as
    opposed to the things we want to build).
    
    In that sense, engineering and manufacturing are execution arms for
    marketing, too.
    

    Ummm,
    
    The marketin professor I mentioned earlier had a number of what I call
    "boston boxes" as illustrations.  One seems to fit here and shows the
    relationship between Stratgies and Tactics
    
                         STRATEGIES
                EFFECTIVE        INEFFECTIVE
    
      EFFICIENT   GROW             DIE SLOW
    
      INEFFICNT   SURVIVE         DIE QUICK
    
    
    I wonder where we are?
    
    regards
    
    Chris
    

    In reply to understanding "what is Marketing and Sales".
    
    The best short explanation of this I know of, is the President's 
    of Toyota. When asked how Toyota manages these functions he said:
    
    "It is easy. It is Marketing's job to get people into our showrooms.
     		 It is Sales' job to make people leave the showroom in
    		 one of our cars."
    
    To quote "Not the Digital Dictionary":
    
    "And people wonder why Japan Inc. is doing so well."
    
    ;-)   P-A 
    
                                            

    
    Re: .29
    
    >The best short explanation of this I know of, is the President's 
    >of Toyota. When asked how Toyota manages these functions he said:
    >
    >"It is easy. It is Marketing's job to get people into our showrooms.
    > 		 It is Sales' job to make people leave the showroom in
    > 		 one of our cars."
    
    The most powerful point of this anecdote is not that it is short,
    but that it is clear, focused, and uncluttered.  People respond well
    to clarity and simplicity and are best able to do their jobs when
    when things are that way.
    
    Steve
    

    re .29 (Steve)
    
    Perhaps in your quest for simplicity you might like to consider the
    following proposition:
    
    	"For every complex problem, there is a simple answer..... 
                ....and it's usually wrong !"
    
    
    :-))
    
    John