Conference 7.286::digital

A similar proposal restricting certain third-party hardware resales was put to 
Bob Palmer a couple months ago.  An attempt by a group who shall go unnamed to
protect a product that is hopelessly laggard with respect to its competitiveness
in the market. This was fortunately shot down.

Given the announcement of a new systems integration vp, (and from the outside 
yet) I would guess that maybe we're going to get serious about SI now and not 
have any restrictions on what we can or cannot sell.

SI means selling what the customer wants and *best* suits his needs, not what 
we make and would like to force fit into a solution.  

    Re: .1
    
    I took .0 to mean "3rd-party software that Digital can purchase FOR
    INTERNAL USE"
    
    Was I right?
    
    D.

    That's how I read it, too.  Could this signal a swinging of the
    pendulum from external software solutions back to internal software
    solutions?  If so, this would have a shattering affect on long-term 
    planning for many organizations -- especially those (like mine) who
    have committed to "downsizing" internally-developed solutions for
    internal customers.
    
    Steve

    Sell something (a solution) that we can't use internally?  Su-u-ure!
    Put Digital's name on it?  Oh, wow, I think it's time for me to go back
    to school and pass the bar so I can rake in the dough when all these
    untested solutions start failing.

I was shown a PRELIMINARY list of 25 applications that was proposed.  The 
copy I was shown was physical so I can't post it.  It refered to internal 
use.  Since the finance group in my organization won't approve an update of 
PowerPoint I can't read or use the latest presentations prepared for us.

THe list of approved appliations had things like Lotus 1-2-3, Microsoft 
EXCEL, Word, WFW, Powerpoint.  Being approved (on the list) does not mean 
that finance will approve, only that not being approved bars approval.

Matt

 *** INTERNAL USE SOFTWARE FOR PERSONAL COMPUTERS ***

 Approved Software List (Tentative)                             Page 1 of 3

  NOTE: Following is the tentative list of approved third-party software
        products for internal use. Once the ban on software purchasing has
        been lifted, employees will be able to purchase these products.

  Category                        Product Name
  ___________________________     _____________________________

  Application Development         Borland C++
                                  Microsoft C++
                                  Visual Basic

  Communications                  Reflections 2+
                                  Reflections 4+
                                  Procomm Plus for Windows

  Databases                       dBase IV
                                  Foxbase
                                  Microsoft Access
                                  Paradox

  Presentation Graphics           Harvard Graphics
                                  PowerPoint for Windows

  Security                        Trusted Access

  Spreadsheets                    Lotus 1-2-3
                                  Microsoft Excel

  Suites                          Lotus SmartSuite
                                  Microsoft Office for Windows

  Task/Time Management            Microsoft Project for Windows

  Utility                         Norton Utilities - International
                                  PC Tools Deluxe
                                  Stacker

  Word Processing                 Microsoft Word
                                  WordPerfect
                                  WordPerfect for Windows

    Ah.  This appears to be PC stuff only.  No mention of software for
    running on VMS and Ultrix machines, near as I can tell.  This move 
    should have no impact on my group since most PC usage is at home
    and we've only got a few small PCs for the group.
    
    Steve

What's the raison d'etre for this list? I'm more than happy with AmiPro and
Lotus Improv, and can deal with the file formats of the "recommended" products
with ease.

You'll also find integrated suites that contain mail components that don't
align with our own messaging strategy!
								- Ian W.

    Um, right..
    
    What about non-general-purpose PC software (e.g. CAD tools)? The req
    gets to purchasing and they say "Oh, PC software! No can do!" .. go
    through the long line of groveling, cajoling, educating, and *maybe*
    you get waht you needed 6 weeks ago.. and then, because of the number
    of people and groups involved, you get cross-charged twice for it! 
    
    This is really getting annoying.. Let's see what else we can think of
    to slow development down..
    
    ...tom

   Re: Note 2460.8 by IW::WARING
   

�What's the raison d'etre for this list? I'm more than happy with AmiPro and
�Lotus Improv, and can deal with the file formats of the "recommended" products
�with ease.
   
   Confused?  So are the people who put the list together.  Notice that
   SmartSuite is listed as OK.  However, AmiPro and Freelance Graphics
   are not on the list of approved wordprocessors or graphics packages,
   but they are bundled with SmartSuite.
   
   What ever happened to analysis in this company?  Analysis isn't
   something we just do for customers for money.  It needs to be an
   integral part at any management level.  

    This isn't funny, it's sick.
    
    It's fine to have a list of "pre-approved" software that is "presumed"
    to be correct to buy for "general office use".  That's how most PCs are
    used, and if somebody wants to put together a list of products that are
    so generally useful that nobody should have to think twice, then the
    list is fine.
    
    But PCs are used for a lot of other applications.  If this list is
    taken as preventing the purchase of ANY PC software for ANY task if
    it's not on the list, then it's completely insane.  Not atypical of
    Digital lately (is Jack Smith's ghost still roaming the halls?) but
    still utterly friggin' nuts.
    
    I was shopping for a protocol analyzer lately.  One vendor had a nice
    board that plugs into a laptop PC, sold separately.  Total price no
    higher than a standalone analyzer.  Purchasing warned me that it'd be
    very hard to get approval, since I'd need to buy the Toshiba laptop and
    it wouldn't get by very easily.  This sort of micromanagement is doing
    more to bankrupt us than all the wasteful spending we ever did put
    together.

    Whats the keyword under VTX to see this list?  I used PCSOFTWARE to no
    avail.  I looked through several of the menu structures also.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bing

Re: .12

In VTX, do a <PF1><KP7> and then enter PC*<return> and see what you get.

This is what I get:

                                  Keyword Menu
 1 PCCD            Personnel Cost Center Directory
 2 PCGUIDE         PC Interoperability Guide
 3 PCSOFTWARE      Software for Personal Computers
 4 PCV             Admin & Logistics Program Coord-Europe


Lee

I got there by typing VTX PCSOFTWARE at the DCL prompt. Admin is
listed as THATS::PCSOFTWARE, fwiw.

    I think the idea is to cut spending.  Maybe the list is of packages that
    Purchasing has negotiated special deals with the vendor.  The directive
    would reward those vendors and encourage others to sign up!
    
    The PC phenomenon has alot to do with status and pride, not so much
    with job requirements.  Joe wants AUTOCAD because Susie has it, and
    Digital pays for it.
    
    If you absolutely need the software, follow the exception process and
    get it.  Sure it's more work, but you DO need it, right?
    
    Mark

The idea is exactly that.  We've negotiated deals with those vendors
(admittedly, we didnt' negotiate the spreadsheet deal with joe-blow
from Kokomo's spreadsheet company, we got the ones that people use) 


Realize that the company doesn't have much cash these days, and purchasing
this kind of software consumes that cash.  Putting controls on these things
may hurt ( and may be shortsighted) but when you don't have the cash, 
you don't spend it, or at least try to make the person requesting 
things REALLY prove that they need the software.  


-bill

PS.  I wonder if DEC will pay for a DOS 6 upgrade?  Given that 
most of our jobs don't depend on having this capability, I would hope 
not!

    Re: -.1  DOS upgrade to 6.0
    
    1) I'd hope that we'd get corporate-wide license for that sort of
       upgrade. 
    2) I support customers who access Rdb databases from PC's and maybe only
       a few of us Digits might need the upgrade.
    3) I see a kind of thought process our company has needed (and not had)
       for a number of years now.  We are asking if the upgrade is worth
       it.  In other words, "Is the upgrade version number also an increase
       in value as measured by benefits to us (Digital)?"
    
       We are now thinking in a manner similar to our customers.  How does
       it feel?  It felt good for us when we were the dog and they girated
       wildly as we wagged our tail, but I don't think it feels so good
       now.   
    
                                         Kurt
    

    This discussion is symptomatic of two incredibly serious problems
    within Digital.  Either is enough to cripple the company, both will
    kill it.
    
    1) The "Approved List"
    
    Since it's not presented in the manner of an "IS will help you with
    support on these" list it appears to be top-down management by rule
    rather than goal.
    
    Are departments/sections/divisions/business units to be measured by
    profit or by conformance to nit-picking rules? (Implementation of
    exception processes cost, nay WASTE, dollars!)
    
    One is tempted to ponder the mindset of an upper management group with
    so little trust.  
    
    
    2) The outright refusal to use our own products!!  This sort of "Well, we
    wrote it so it must be crummy."  attitude rubs off on our customers!
    
    Examples:  DECwrite is one of the best Word Processors available.
               (Period!) 
               All the sales people around me run off and pay for MS-WORD. 
               The **Stupidest** excsue I got was: "When it gets a majority
               of marketshare then I'll use it."  -- From a sales manager,
               no less!!
    
               DECplan provides project and time management for groups on 
               a client-server basis.  This is what we say will be next - 
               "client-server".  Everyone thinks we should get Microsoft
               project!  Why?  It can't update from multiple sources at the
               same time.  It can't be networked.  It's project size is
               limited.  Etc Etc Etc.
    
     If we don't believe in ourselves, no-one else will believe in us.
    
    
    As it stands, (another note's topic) we're headed down the road to
    becoming a chip-maker with a single product.  That should be good for
    about 1,000 employees and $100M in sales ***IF*** our single product is
    provably the best and well marketed.  
    
    
    Don
    

RE: .18

DECwrite is a pig, and the only reason that I have it installed on my 
PC is that I had a workstation in my previous 5 years and have lots of 
documents that I need to look at occasionally. It's overkill as a word
processor and can't even begin to cut it as a full page layout package


I tried DECplan once, it was cryptic, slow and crashed alot.  I hope things
have gotten better since then, but until then, Microsoft project will
do just fine.


We should be using the tools that our customers are buying, and they're
buying PC software like AmiPro and Word for word processors, not DECwrite.


-bill

    >Examples:  DECwrite is one of the best Word Processors available.
    >           (Period!) 

    that may be true, i never used it, but i got AMIPRO for $79 or so,
    how much does DECwrite cost for the PC? just curious...

    \nasser

    re .19
    
    DECwrite V2.0 on Windows is no slower than Word for Windows if you have
    at least 6MB of memory.  Plus it does more.  
    
    DECplan is far less cryptic than Project (IMHO) and apart from -far-
    better "Help" offers more features - particularly those involved in
    managing projects with input from more than a single source.  Project
    is fine if everyone submits updates to a clerk who then enters them
    into the PC.  
    
    And YOU are part of the problem for at least two reasons!
    
    1) Your ATTITUDE that we should follow our customers rather than lead
    by example.  Maybe you should do eveything on an AS 400 because 'our
    customer uses one'.  I presume that the workstation you speak of was a
    SUN as they were the initial market leader.
    
    2) Your ineffective and cursory evaluations of products.  Perhaps you
    should be asked a time-limited skill testing question and then presumed
    to be ignorant forever and on all subjects because if didn't know the
    answer.  Perhaps you should walk to work because the first automobile
    wasn't technically sound and used inconvenient quantities of wood.
    
    

    Re:  .20
    
    You are now touching the surface of another giant problem for
    Digital...  
    
    How much does Digital charge for their product(s)?
    Where can I get Digital product(s)?
    How does anyone find out about Digital product(s)?
    
    Then comes the inevitable MBA decision to scrap the bottom 10% of
    products based on sales or profit or whatever without spending 20
    seconds on trying to figure out why something's not selling.  (Or in
    Digital's case, not BEING SOLD!)
    
    To respond directly to your question, I don't know.  I use it
    internally and therefore ordered it internally.  I am a workie and such
    things as cost of things is deemed byond my understanding, so I can not
    easily find out.
    
    
    Don
    

    
    re: .18
    
    I was one of two DECPlan experts in my former group. I don't have 
    a window terminal or work station in my new group, so can no longer 
    use the product. The following are reasons that DECPlan doesn't have 
    greater acceptance in the company: 
    
       1. For a small project, keeping the complete project plan on 
          DECPlan would make the process bigger than the project. 
       
       2. For a large project, keeping the complete project plan on 
          DECPlan would require one person to be dedicated 100% to 
          maintaining the plan. 
    
    Just my $.02.
    
    

    DEC sales people could sell cars, they could sell dishwashers, they
    could sell real estate.  They are trying to sell computers,
    applications and services to make their numbers and justify their
    paychecks (and maybe soon, their commission checks).  They will sell
    whatever sells.  DECwrite has to become a hot commodity before it sells
    itself.  It has to be good, people have to use it to find out if it is 
    any good and how good it is, then they have to talk to other people and
    the press.  The price has to be right.  There has to be competent
    support.  (DECwrite is just a name for this dissertation, it could be
    any product).  If you want to sell DEC products you need to give them
    away first, then hope for the upgrades.  Upgrades have to be cheap,
    $75- $150.  The documentation has to be good or better for the initial
    release.  It has to be really easy to use and install and configure.  
    All the bells and whistles we call features have to be included in the
    standard product. Everybody in the company has to know how to use the 
    product to some degree and know someone who knows it better who has 
    enough time to show it to customers.  If we use the product internally,
    there has to be some lighning quick response to product problems so
    that our own people can have confidence that there is support in place. 
    There can't be a lot of product problems.
    
    Rather than point out a bunch of DEC's problems, these are the answers.

    i'm a proposal manager and the sales reps work with direct government
    customers and prime contractors, small businesses etc.
    
    these customers are now specifying that proposals (or technical input
    to THEIR proposals to the end user) be submitted on PC applications
    formatted diskettes.  i.e. MS Word and WordPerfect are the leading
    applications.
    
    to even submit to be considered for capturing the business, we have to
    use these applications.  i have yet had a customer ask for anything in
    DECwrite, which is what we use if there is no particular application
    specified.
    
    sue

>    >Examples:  DECwrite is one of the best Word Processors available.
>    >           (Period!) 
>
>    that may be true, i never used it, but i got AMIPRO for $79 or so,
>    how much does DECwrite cost for the PC? just curious...

>    \nasser


A recent issue of PC Magazine compared DECwrite for Windows with FrameMaker
and Interleaf.  It was a pretty favorable review, though they seemed to
prefer FrameMaker overall.  They listed the prices as $295, $795, and $995
respectively.  They didn't compare these document processors w/ any of the
popular and feature rich word processors like Ami Pro.  $79 is an excellent
price for Ami Pro, even their ads list competitive upgrades at $129.

Re: .24

>    DEC sales people could sell cars, they could sell dishwashers, they
>    could sell real estate.  They are trying to sell computers,
>    applications and services to make their numbers and justify their
>    paychecks (and maybe soon, their commission checks).  They will sell
>    whatever sells.  DECwrite has to become a hot commodity before it sells
>    itself.

I'm not sure what you're saying here, that DEC Sales can sell anything but
first the product must sell itself?  Other than MS-DOS, Windows, and Intel
chips I can't think of any IT product which sells itself.  Perhaps :^) some
additional marketing (of DECwrite) is in order, however I agree with Don
(.18 and others) giving up before we make the pitch is definately part of
the problem.

Dennis
Happy DECwrite User

    re: .25
    
    OK.  Customers want their replies on diskette in format x so they can
    do whatever with them.  Do you:
    
    a) Get at least one person fully up to speed on each of the formats
    which have been requested?  You list two, but there are potentially
    others.  Note also that you'll have to have all your boilerplates
    available and ready.
    
         - or -
    
    b) Pick your own company's product, do the response in it and translate
    it to the customer's preferred format with (again!) your own company's
    product?  This way you need a single type of expertise, and a single
    library.
    
    I pick B.
    
    
    Don

    The problem with B is that there's no "DECwrite to PC-based software"
    translator.
    
    					andrew

    ... is that no-one even knows we have the products!
    
    Re: .28
    
    Try the CDA converter library.  Please!
    
    

>                     -< The REAL problem with Digital... >-
>    ... is that no-one even knows we have the products!
>    Try the CDA converter library.  Please!

	Interesting sentiment. I have a document that I wrote while on GEEP.
	It's in FrameMaker format, and I wanted to distribute it within
	Digital, because it's of interest to a fairly wide community. I am
	absolutely unable to convert from FrameMaker to any of the formats
	that I have at my disposal here (DECWrite, Postscript, Wordperfect).

	Roy

    Don
    
    "My ineffective and cursory evaluations of products" included EVERY
    field test release of DECwrite on VMS and on Windows.  I've used
    DECwrite for several years.  
    
    Don't get me wrong, it's a good product, however it's too much forw the
    general word processor market  and too little for the page layout
    people.  It's lacking features that cheap products have (for instance,
    where's the color?)  DECpresent also, it's a good product, but it has
    its problems and the other presentation packages are blowing by it.
    (they also have their limitations, Powerpoint specifically)
    
    
    We should sell what our customers want, by solving their problems the
    way they want them to be solved.  The market has spoken and DECwrite
    isn't the answer.  (Lotus will sell more copies of Amipro between the
    time that I write this reply and you reply than we've EVER sold of
    DECwrite)  I know the frustration, I know the marketing manager for
    DECwrite/DECpresent very well and he knwos that my use has stressed his
    product to the limits.  
    
    
    -bill

	My 2�: if we could provide products with the functionality
	of DECwrite and DECplan, that were as easy to install and use
	as most PC software, at cheaper prices and in a larger market,
	we would be able to rake the money in.

	It's a matter of breaking out of the mindset that we are only
	selling to the VAX/VMS market, and that only a small fraction
	of even that will buy our software: therefore quality doesn't
	matter much (little competition) and we won't sell many so we
	have to keep the price high.

	David Stone hit the nail on the head when he described this as
	a "hobby" business. If we could get away from selling software
	to "go with" our hardware, and just sell software on whatever
	hardware most people are buying, that would be a breakthrough.

	/Tom

I think it will stay a hobby business untill the engineering managers 
specify that the product be built on NON-DEC hardware and then ported.  
Maybe make them port to Sun first.  I would assume the first target would 
automatically be MS Windows.

In the nest fiscal year we may actually see marketing specify this in the 
funding of the engineering.

Matt

    Does anybody have the list of internal prices that goes with the list
    from .6. The list is on VTX PCSOFTWARE but there are no prices there.
    I can't find the prices on VTX anywhere.
    
    I've been told Microsoft Office is $60 and Winword is about $30.
    I'd like to have the complete price list. Anybody got it?
    
    Dave

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 AutoCAD 3D Studio                       $2,995
 AutoShade Version 2.0 
  without RenderMan                      $  500
 AutoShade Version 2.0
  with Autodesk RenderMan                $1,000
 Advanced Modeling Extension             $  495
 Autodesk Animator                       $  495
 Autodesk Animator Pro                   $  795
 Generic CADD 5.0                        $  495
 Generic CADD for Macintosh              $  595
 AutoSketch Version 3                    $  249
 
 Autodesk Animator Clips
  Textures I (Man-Made)                  $  149
  Textures II (Natural)                  $  149
  Business Communications                $  149
  Animals/Fantasy                        $  149
  Holidays/Sports                        $  149
  Weddings                               $  149
  Toons                                  $  149
  Specifal Effects: Titling              $  149
 GenCADD Architectural                   $  990
 GenCADD Architectural Module            $  495
 GenCADD FF&E                            $  790
 GenCADD FF&E Module                     $  295
 GenCADD COGO                            $  990
 GenCADD COGO Module                     $  495
 RenderMan is a registered trademark of Pixar used by Autodesk under
 license by Pixar.
 Generic Software, Inc. ("Generic"), a wholly owned subsidiary of Autodesk,
 Inc., shall license the Licensed Programs to Licensee, invoice Licensee for
 Licensed Programs ordered and shall ship such Licensed Programs F.O.B.
 Generic's manufacturing plant.

    Oppps, I should mention that .35 came out of VTX EPP.  I ordered
    the Microsoft office package, and it arrived yesterday.  This was
    paid for with MY money.  I have no idea how one might get DEC to 
    buy this stuff, but then, I don't use it for doing my Digital job. 
     I wish I could have gotten an EPP price on the Borland
    C++ I just installed.  This stuff gets expensive.  I am learning 
    C++ and OO on my own to improve my marketability.  I assume I will be
    picked in the next round of TFSO's.
    
    Judy

    Re .35
    
    Yes I knew about what you just posted from VTX EPP. As you point out
    that is for enployee purchases for your own use paid for with your own
    money.
    
    What I'm looking for is the price list to go with the software listed
    in .6 which is purchased for internal use by DEC by a DEC cost center.
    It is a lot cheaper than the EPP prices.
    
    Dave

    What is Magellan?  Does it run on a PC or a Macintosh?
    
    (Please send me mail and spare the readership 8^)  Thanks!

RE: .35

What about those of us loking for Microsoft applications for the Mac??

Not included??

re: .35

I went thru the process of getting the Digital corporate price for Mocrosoft
Excel a few weeks ago.  If memory serves me correctly, it's about $35.
Seems to me that we only have to pay royalty - no license fees.  However,
it required VP signature because 3rd party products were on hold for Digital
purchase.

I had offered to purchase it thru EPP and submit an expense, but that was
frowned on.  It wasn't worth if for me to pursue the VP (and, I assume, all
intermediate level) approvals to get the software.

In my search, I discovered that it has to be ordered thru SSB.  You can request
the order form from WMOIS::SDCISO

Gerry

MicroSoft Powerpoint for Windows
  From the SSB:     Part # QB-MDFAA-FA
                    Price: $34.87

MicroSoft Excel
  From the SSB:     Part # QA-MDEAA-HW
                    Price:  $33.87

Visual BASIC
  From the SSB:     Part #  QA-ME8AA-HW
                    Price:  $24.76

MicroSoft Office
  From the SSB:     Part #  QA-MK3AA-HW
                    Price:  $57.04

MicroSoft Word for Windows
  From the SSB:     Part #  QA-MDDAA-HW
                    Price:  $53.59

RE: .39

As of the last time I checked, there is NO agreement between Digital
and Microsoft for any sort of purchase of any Macintosh software.
Several of us mounted a letter-writing campaign to both Digital and
Microsoft encouraging such an agreement, but it was courteously received and
not acted upon.

You're probably stuck with retail.

Kevin

Beware of the prices quoted in .41.  Those prices are the cost of media &
shipping from the SSB and DO NOT include the license fees that Digital must
pay MicroSoft.  The license fee is picked up at a later time by the license
admin folks and billed to your cost center separately.

                           U.S. SOFTWARE SUPPLY BUSINESS
                                   WESTMINSTER MA
                            508-874-3023 OR DTN 241-3023
     
               PLEASE RETURN FORM TO WMOIS::SDCISO OR SDCISO @WMO      
                      PLEASE FILE A COPY FOR FUTURE USE

    	         *** U.S.S.S.B. INTERNAL SOFTWARE ORDER FORM ***

      		         (REVISED ORDER FORM 1993)                      
   REQUESTOR:    

    BADGE #     |
    REQUESTOR   |                                    
    COST CENTER |              
    DTN/EXT     |                                                  
    EMAIL       |	                                             	
                                             
   AUTHORIZE:                                                                            
                                              
    BADGE#      |                             
    NAME        |                                     	      
    COST CENTER |                                  

   SHIP TO:

    ATTN TO     |
    BADGE #     |
    MAIL STOP   |
    SHIP TO     | DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION
    ADDRESS     |
    CITY        |
    STATE       |
    ZIP CODE    |
    PHONE #     |
                                                                            		                               
    
    NOTE:  OUR CYCLE TIME IS 3 WORKING DAYS UPON RECEIPT OF ORDER   
    
    PUT AN "X" IN ONE OF THE FOLLOWING SHIP METHODS:  
                    
          BESTWAY SURFACE  [   ]   OR  OTHER  [   ]        
    
    CHECK LIST: HAVE YOU FILLED IN ALL REQUIRED INFORMATION?

    WARNING   : THIRD-PARTY SOFTWARE MAY BE SUBJECT TO ROYALTY EXPENSE WHICH 
                WILL BE CHARGED TO YOUR COST CENTER.  AN INTERNAL LICENSE 
                (1 PER CPU) MUST BE ORDERED FOR EACH SOFTWARE PRODUCT LISTED 
                ON THE QUARTERLY MEMO "REQUIRED INTERNAL LICENSE ORDERING", 
                SENT ELECTRONICALLY TO ALL U.S. COST CENTER MANAGERS.  FOR 
                MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT ROYALTY ADMINISTRATION (SEE YOUR
                DEC DIRECTORY).
                IT IS AGAINST YOUR EMPLOYEE AGREEMENT TO REPRODUCE OR 
                TRANSFER SOFTWARE TO ANY ENTITY OUTSIDE OF Digital OR ANY 
                OTHER ORGANIZATION INSIDE OF Digital Equipment Corporation.
         
       PUT AN "X" IN ONE:  CURRENT  [   ]    OR   ARCHIVE  [   ]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    |MODEL NUMBER |VERSION|            DESCRIPTION                   |QUANTITY|
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                              

    Re .-1
    
    Which is the correct method to use:
    
    	a) The IPA system
    	or
    	b) This order form
    
    Dave

I dunno. I have ordered, on occasion, via VAXmail using such a form
and got what I ordered. What's an IPA? Internal Purchase Authorization?

Long, long ago I recall somthing called an ISOF (Internal Software Order
Form)

Lee (a scrounger who doesn't order software very often)

re: .43

I stand corrected.  Listed below are the costs with licensing fees included.
Office and VB still work out to less than half the current upgrade-edition 
street cost, though slightly more than the Employee Purchase price. Word, 
Excel and Powerpoint individually are no buy but that's not anything new.

MicroSoft Office
Part #  QA-MK3AA-HW     $57.04 (SSB) + $112.00 (lic.) = $169.04

Visual BASIC
Part #  QA-ME8AA-HW     $24.76 (SSB) + $ 30.00 (lic.) = $ 54.76

MicroSoft Word
Part #  QA-MDDAA-HW     $53.59 (SSB) + $ 74.00 (lic.) = $127.59

MicroSoft Excel
Part # QA-MDEAA-HW	$33.87 (SSB) + $ 74.00 (lic.) = $107.87

MicroSoft Powerpoint
Part # QB-MDFAA-FA	$34.87 (SSB) + $ 74.00 (lic.) = $108.87

FWIW, the licensing fee for the combined DOS/Windows kit (QB-MESAA-SA)
is fifty cents.


re: .45

Use the form provided for ordering from the SSB.  Use the IPA system to
create purchase requisitions for external orders (such as from 800-Software.)

    it would be interesting to find out, after watching palmer answer a
    question about VP approval for post-its, if ssb is still needing VP
    approval for this software.
    
    sue

    Re .-1
    
    I called the SSB. They still require VP approval. I have submitted
    a DELTA idea suggesting that this VP approval for $50 software
    purchases is ridiculous. The DELTA message people sent me a reply
    saying my suggestion has been sent to George Potter in Finance at AKO.
    I'll let everybody know when I hear something.
    
    Meanwhile my managers manager insisted another level of approval was
    needed in the chain before going to the VP( ie his manager). I expect the
    next thing that will be told to my secretary is that it'll have to go
    finance before going to the VP.
    
    Maybe I should go into the autograph gathering business. Attached
    is the response I got from DELTA. Got to give it to them I got that
    response quickly. Let's see if the person who has been given the
    problem responds quickly.
    
    Dave
    
From:	LKGMTS::LKGMTS::MRGATE::"OGOMTS::STOWOA::MRGATE::STOWOA::DELTA_IDEAS" 28-APR-1993 21:59:58.34
To:	SMAUG::GARROD
CC:	
Subj:	DELTA Idea NO: DA6939; VP SIGNATURES ON PO

From:	NAME: DELTA_IDEAS <DELTA_IDEAS@STOWOA@MRGATE@STOWOA@OGO>
To:	DAVID GARROD@LKG@STOWOA



David -

Thank you for submitting your idea: VP SIGNATURES ON PO.
The registration number for this idea is DA6939. Please refer to this
number when making inquiries regarding your idea.

After reviewing your idea, we have forwarded it to FIN P & P.
You should expect an acknowledgement of receipt from them within the
next week and a response within 30 days.  If you do not receive them or they
are not satisfactory then follow up directly with GEORGE POTTER @AKO
and copy DELTA.

DELTA is here to help you get your Idea to the right organization,
to follow up with the responders to make sure that you get a response, and
to follow up with you once a response is received.  We can act as your
advocate at your request. We facilitate the process but also count on 
your initiative for getting your good ideas implemented. 

We have a Notesfile (STOWOA::DELTA_IDEAS) for the purpose of discussing
Ideas and Proposals.  Please let us know whether you would like your
Idea to be posted.

We also have a VTX application (VTX DELTA) which will: give you information
about Employee Involvement at Digital, allow you to look at results
that others have achieved, answer some frequently submitted ideas,
and give you information on how to implement good ideas at your own site.

Attached are instructions and a DELTA Idea Form for future ideas that you
would like to submit.  Please share it with others!
If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to call us.  


Regards,


Paul Rondina, DTN 276-9167
DELTA Team


IDEAS FORM Instructions   ---   DELTA   ---   You Make a Difference    Rev 2.7

YOUR IDEAS ARE APPRECIATED

Thank you for contacting the DELTA Program Office.  Before filling in this 
form, please read over this memo. It contains pointers which will help your 
idea be more successful.  

At this very moment, no one has a clearer picture of your idea or knows more 
about it than you do.  Within Digital's new 'You Make a Difference' framework, 
you are empowered to make constructive change.

TAKE ACTION YOURSELF

First, please give strong and serious consideration to implementing your idea 
yourself or within your own group - and then sharing your results through the 
DELTA process.  The 'Do It Yourself' method has a number of advantages:

    -  Implementation takes the form you have in mind
    -  Rate of implementation is under your control
    -  You are the first to receive the benefits of your idea

Please remember to share the results from doing it yourself so other groups 
may benefit from your efforts.  Also, your efforts deserve appropriate DELTA 
recognition.  If you 'Do It Yourself' (Propose and Do) or with a group the 
Ideas Form can then be used to submit your results to DELTA. 
 
REQUEST SUPPORT IF NEEDED

When implementing locally your assigned Support Council should be of 
assistance.  If your idea cannot be implemented locally and needs other 
resources within Digital, use the form. 

WHERE TO SEND YOUR IDEA

After you've completed the form, send it to IDEAS CENTRAL @OGO or 
SONATA::IDEASCENTRAL and it will be forwarded to the appropriate organization 
and logged into the Ideas Data Base. The better the details you provide, the 
faster the process of review and implementation.    

No matter where your completed Ideas Form is sent, you will receive an 
acknowledgment of receipt.  You will be kept informed about the status and 
disposition of your idea.  If for some reason, you are not kept up-to-date, 
please contact IDEAS CENTRAL @OGO or have any questions, call Maxine Crowther 
at DTN: 276-8226......Digital is looking forward to hearing your constructive 
ideas or the results from them.



                              DELTA PROGRAM OFFICE
                              IDEAS FORM   Rev 2.7


Name:

Location Code:

DTN (or Outside Number if no DTN is available):

Electronic Mail Address (if available):


1. WHAT TYPE OF IDEA ARE YOU SUBMITTING?

   -   PROPOSAL: An idea in which you want to participate in implementation. 
   -   PILOT: A proposal you would like to lead implementation and pilot.
   -   SUGGESTION: A constructive idea which you want a function to consider.
   -   RESULT: Outcome of an idea you already implemented and want to share.

   If a PROPOSAL, what role could you perform during implementation,
   Participant or Consultant?


2. TITLE FOR YOUR IDEA:


3. DESCRIBE THE FOLLOWING ASPECTS OF YOUR IDEA:

    A.  Opportunity or issue your idea addresses.

    B.  Proposed remedy and support your idea needs in order to succeed.

    C.	Results you expect your idea to produce, or results your idea has 
       	already produced.  Be as specific and quantitative as possible.


4. IF DIGITAL MAY MAKE MONEY, SAVE MONEY, OR REDUCE THE TIME TO COMPLETE A 
   PROCESS, ESTIMATE WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT DIGITAL TO SAVE IF YOUR IDEA 
   WAS FULLY IMPLEMENTED.
 

5. LENGTH OF TIME YOU THINK IT WILL TAKE TO GET YOUR IDEA IMPLEMENTED ONCE ALL
   THE RIGHT RESOURCES ARE IN PLACE.


6. WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR IDEA SHARED IN A NOTES FILE?


VMSmail To information: MTS$::"LKG::DAVID GARROD"
VMSmail CC information: DELTA_IDEAS
    

If SSB won't sell you something without a VP signature, then buy from
somebody else who will.  Then you just need to have your finance
person approve it, which is one less hurdle.

re: .50

Nope.  All third party (PC) software purchases must be approved by a VP, 
regardless of whether you purchase it from the SSB, through Purchasing, 
from IEG, or buy it yourself and (try to) submit a voucher.

Our organization packages up large bundles of requests, sends them up the 
approval chain as a unit, and then after (if) approvals are received, we 
attach them to the various different bits of paperwork: SSB order forms for 
things from them, EOFs for stuff from IEG, purchase reqs for items to be 
bought from a vendor and miscellaneous procurement vouchers for those items 
that the employees are willing to purchase on the company's behalf.

Figuring out how to deal with this bureaucracy is great job security.

   I am now beginning to see the need for the drastic downsizing we've
   gone through.  Think of how hard it is for all these upper and middle
   managers to micro-manage 100K people.

    Just in case anyone took BP's statement seriously, this morning I got a
    copy of a Mullarkey-gram which appears to be intended for widespread
    distribution.  Among its many Smithisms,
    
    o     The hold on "for internal use" purchases of
          break-the-seal software and software upgrades will
          continue.  Purchases which will directly impact
          near-term revenue goals will require exception
          approval.
    
    I'm getting real, real tired.

    The funniest part of this - and, yes, it's funny...
    
    We aren't allowed to buy 3rd Party  
    
           * AND *
    
    They're killing off our own stuff!!!
    
    [A comspiracy theorist might wonder who is paying these guys.]
    

	At the Third Software Process Symposium this morning at ZKO in
	Nashua, Dennis Roberson was asked about people being blocked from
	buying shrink-wrapped software (he called it "break the seal"). His
	response was that purchases FOR DEVELOPMENT WORK are not (or at
	least should not be) being blocked, as of a short time ago.

	Roy

	re .54:

>    [A comspiracy theorist might wonder who is paying these guys.]

	A diminishing number of patient but exasperated customers.

	/Tom

I know this isn't my saga, but I actually got all 7 signatures necessary 
to order a PowerPoint upgrade.  It was signed off by everyone in mid-April.  
It was supposed to ship on May 3rd.  

Comes May 7th, I ask my secretary to call and find out when I could expect
it.  They tell her it shipped.  I leave for the trip I needed it for, come
back and still no software. Monday they tell her (only after she calls, far
be it from them actaully dealing with a customer in a proactive way) that
they did not order enough PowerPoint licenses and kits and I will be
shipped a copy in mid-July. Nicely over the fiscal year boundary.  I did
buy a copy for my home machine and was able to use that, but i would like
to do my work during the day at work. 

I used to blame Jack's stupid memo for the stupid actions.  I need to 
apologize to his memory, there are obviously a lot of people who think and 
act like he did.

Matt