Conference 7.286::digital

    I can see a huge demand for phone answering machines so that Digital
    employees can screen calls at home.....
    
    If you don't get the pay then don't carry the beeper, its that simple.
    
    Renis
    

>    If you don't get the pay then don't carry the beeper, its that simple.

You will proably be asked to, and if you don't it will go against you
on your review.

This ground has been plowed over and over... if you want guaranteed response
after hours, then you need to have standby- PAID standby. No pay,
no guarantee.

Some of our admin systems need to be up and running 24hrs a day and NEED
support staff on standby. Some of these systems will directly impact customer
service if they are down for long.

Can you say "Penny wise and pound foolish?"

Lee

        <<< Note 2304.2 by CSOADM::ROTH "You like it, it likes you!" >>>

>This ground has been plowed over and over... if you want guaranteed response
>after hours, then you need to have standby- PAID standby. No pay,
>no guarantee.

I am undoubtedly going to get flamed for this but I started out in DEC as 
an associate programmer in the early 70's.  I handled some critical
Customer Services applications.  Nobody questioned that they were responsible
for the applications 24 hours a day, seven days a week.  Many times I got
called in the middle of the night when batch streams failed. Nobody
even considered asking for pay in these situations, it was part of the job.

Somewhere along the line support of the business has gone from a 
responsibility to a burden.  Wonder when that happened??

    There are very specific labor regulations which concern compensation
    for nonexempt employees on standby.  Specifically, non-exempt employees
    must be compensated for manadatory standby time and cannot be penalized
    for non-response if providing standby coverage voluntarily.
    
    On the other hand, as an exempt employee I have been on 24x7 standby in
    support of an EXTERNAL customer for 2+ years and have never received
    compensation. 
    
    Take it for what it's worth,
    
    cw
    

    .3, .4:
    
    When you accepted the job offer, did you already know that it included
    the opportunity to be woken up at night by someone with a problem, and
    that this carried with it no additional remunuration?
    
    Someone who accepted a job which stipulated *both* the probability to
    be disturbed while sleeping, or out-of-town at a niece's birthday
    party, or in the middle of childbirth class, or while singing in the
    church choir, or even in the middle of the dinner at which one was
    about to propose to one's intended� -- *and also* a well-defined
    stipend for being kept on a leash -- might well be expected to be less
    than pleased by the news that the the carrot is being taken away (but
    the load remains the same).
    
    Dick
    
    � -- Yes, I know of such a case;  the couple will not soon forget that
    	 night, I assure you.

     	 With the elimination of Stand-by and call-in pay, Digital 
     Management has handed down a pay cut to all of its internal support 
     personnel.  We are expected to do the same job, or in many cases 
     more due to staff cuts, for less money.  It is a well known fact 
     that Digital compensates many of its IS employees at or below 
     market averages.  Ask any recruiter and they will tell you you're 
     being paid $5-10k less than your counterparts at other companies in 
     the region.  
     
     	 In my organization we fought long and hard to be compensated 
     for after-hours work since we were frequently called at home to 
     resolve problems.  This work could consume an entire weekend for 
     some of us and sometimes amounts to an additional 15-20 hours a 
     week logged in from home fixing problems.  Since I am on salary, I 
     am expected to do what it takes to get the job done.  I cannot 
     recall when the last time was I put in less than 40 hours in a 
     week.  But I have a feeling 40 hours and no more is going to be 
     norm in 1993.
     
     	 Being available on short notice was not originally part of the 
     position I accepted three years ago.  I hope that the VP of 
     Operations who sent this out is also willing to take a pay cut.  
     Its time management made its contributions in people and in pay to 
     Digital's cost reduction efforts.
     
     
     
     Bryan

    I believe that standby and call-in pay has been abused at Digital for
    many years.  As reply .3 indicated....times have changed.  I too
    remember when I was a programmer in 1978.  I was called at home many
    nights, submitted productions from home on weekends and monitored
    them...never even heard of or thought of standby pay.  I do believe
    that employees who support external customers should be considered for
    standby pay but those people should be kept to a minimum.
    
    I voiced by concern to DELTA on this subject back on August 17, 1990. 
    Any changes now would be a welcome sight.  I was aware of individuals
    and managers that were receiving standby pay every day of the year. 
    This added over $20K to their annual salary which I considered abuse.
    I remember being asked by one individual if I was accusing him of
    lining his pockets with gold.  My reply was "yes".  I still feel that
    there are people today that have pockets lined with gold!
    

    Re <<< Note 2304.7 by GRANPA::JNOSTIN >>>
>                         -< Changes are needed - NOW! >-

>    I believe that standby and call-in pay has been abused at Digital for
>    many years.

    No doubt, and no disagreement.

>    Any changes now would be a welcome sight.  I was aware of individuals
>    and managers that were receiving standby pay every day of the year. 
>    This added over $20K to their annual salary which I considered abuse.
>    I remember being asked by one individual if I was accusing him of
>    lining his pockets with gold.  My reply was "yes".  I still feel that
>    there are people today that have pockets lined with gold!

    So is penalising all the people who *aren't* abusing the system the Right
    Thing?  To my mind, the Right Thing is to correct the abuses and punish
    the abusers, not make yet another bonehead blanket policy like this.  And,
    as is becoming annoyingly common, with no notice of the change until two
    days before it goes into effect.

    I remember a few months ago when my CS rep told me that any work would
    have to be done during business hours, because *NO* overtime was being
    approved.  He said that it was because a few people put in for OT every
    week, and their managers approved it, though no work was actually done.
    So did the abuses get corrected?  Well, I suppose so - but only by
    implementing a completely hare-brained (IMHO) policy of *no* OT, which
    meant I had to shut down production systems during business hours in order
    to get service.  Eventually things worked out, but only by breaking
    another rule, namely the CS engineers taking comp-time for work done after
    hours.

    Now, I suppose I could go along with having standby pay only for people on
    assignment to outside customers, but completely cutting out compensation
    for dedicated people doing work on their own time I consider to be wrong.
    For our own organisation, I can see all of the support staff going off
    the rotating standby roster, but still getting call-in pay if and when.
    If a particular support person isn't reachable, the next one gets called -
    and so on.  Whoever ends up doing the work gets paid for doing it.  I
    think that's a reasonable compromise (although others in my group
    mightn't), and less costly than paying standby even when problems
    occur, but the new policy doesn't allow even *that* much.  It's very
    black-and-white; if an internal production system goes down at 18H45 on
    Friday night, it's now reasonable to expect it to still be down at 08H00
    on Monday morning.

    Someone brought up the old wheeze about `exempt doesn't mean 40 hours, it
    means whatever it takes to get the job done.'  Harsh times may require
    harsh measures, but there's a limit.  I don't think the benefit dichotomy
    between exempt and non-exempt is great enough to cover more than about 25%
    more time (namely 50 hours per week).  Certainly not 50% or 100%.

    As a couple of earlier replies pointed out, I think this change is
    definitely a case of `penny-wise and pound-foolish'.  I think it is
    actually going to hurt the company, because some people are NOT going to
    do work on their own time.  If the work doesn't get done until business
    hours, when the loss in dollars mounts because dozens of people are
    getting paid but unable to work, then that seems to be a natural
    consequence to me.

    A lot of non-abusing people work their budgets around the expectation that
    they'll be on standby N weeks a year.  That has suddenly been shot down
    with practically no notice.  Their personal economies are likely to be
    damaged, perhaps severely, by this sudden knee-jerk (IMHO) fiat decision.

    I say this even though I do a *lot* of work on my own time, largely out of
    loyalty.  But, as someone I know says occasionally, I am *not* a
    charitable institution.  If the company is going to jerk the employees
    around like this (again, IMHO), then it shouldn't expect to be immune from
    having to pay the fiddler.

    For myself personally..  I expect that I'll still be logged in after
    hours, and fix things that are relatively simple to correct, but that I'll
    also find a lot more things than I used to that can wait until the next
    working day.  Rather than trying to keep everything up all of the time,
    any problems that only affect an handful of people will probably get
    defered, although big ones will still get immediate attention.

    I sure wish, though, that these high-powered `strategy' committees would
    go through a proposal process rather than handing out edicts.  All these
    fiat decisions just damage morale and their credibility, IMHO, for a
    minimal gain.

    #ken    :-(}

    Well, for myself, I support an ULTRIX system and all the users that go
    with it.  I've been on standby every other week for 3 years now. 
    Standby for me means not going anywhere that would leave me more then
    5 minutes from a phone or 15 minutes from my terminal.  And always had
    the possibility of having to go into work no matter what the time or
    what was going on.  Being a single parent that also meant packing up the
    kids at whatever hour and bringing them with me.  But it was worth it
    to keep the system up and running and the customers happy.  As well as
    having that little bit of extra money (standby = 1 straigt hour to
    every 8 hours on standby) to help make ends meet.  And believe me they
    are barely meeting even then.
    
    Now, it looks like I'll have to get a babysitter for the kids while I
    take a second job at night just to make ends meet.  So, if anything
    happens to the system, disks or network, well I wouldn't be available
    to do anything about it.
    
    Therefore we have several losers in this situation:
    a) my users quite likely will come in to downed systems, downed disks
       etc that will have to be taken care of during work hours.  Therefore
       not getting the level of support that they need to do their jobs.
    b) me, working night and day to stay afloat is bound to burn me out
       before too long.  And when am I going to see my kids and be a mother
       to them?
    c) my kids,  they need their mother for more than just waking them up
       in the morning for school.  If they're in school all day and with
       a babysitter till they go to bed at night, what's this going to do
       to them?
    
    I don't know.  Maybe its me, but I think this new policy is a big
    mistake.  I wonder if they realize that supporting the internal systems
    and their users who are working on critical projects is a major factor
    for our success.
    
    

    Well I'll now spend some time on this reply to my 277 hours a year
    going away. Let me 1ST say that
    
    
    
    	OOOOps its 5:00 oclock, I'm outa here. I'll finish this "LATER"
                          

    ok, Its 8:15 now let me finish from .10
    
    	The loss of 277 hours means I just took a 13% pay cut. If the
    company is going to give a 13% pay cut to EVERYONE (not just standby)
    then so be it. But until I see a memo of a 13% cut across the board
    then I'll continue to say "later"

    	Just a thought, but it would appear that this new policy will result
    in many 2nd and 3rd shift positions being created for critical applications 
    that no longer fall under stand-by pay eligibility.
    
    	Ray

    The message we are getting is that those who now carry a beeper will
    continue to do so in the future for no compensation.  Also, those
    who refuse can start updating their resumes.

    JJ

    	Were I to find myself being forced to take uncompensated pager
    	time, I'd be updating my resume.  Of course, "uncompensated 
    	pager time" means time that I was not originally hired to
    	perform, or that I have not already agreed to perform.
    
    	Remember, though, that "compensation" can come in the form of
    	a hefty raise next time you get a raise.  I'd probably let it
    	be known to my management that I expected such compensation, and 
    	would wait until I got my raise before burning any bridges.

	How many systems do you (think you) support?

	Purely technical support? Purely operational?

	How many titles do you have officially? Unofficially?

	I know there's more than meets the job description but losing
	my sense of spatial relationships isn't part of it (yet).

	O yea...on setting raise expectations and preserving bridges...
	industry avg. (as I'm constantly reminded) is 3%-4%, likely
	shrinking as we speak. You'll either wait longer or burn sooner.

	You wanna talk fairness? I can tell ya something about fairness...
	I used to work for....(Dick don't _say_ it!! ;-)

    Currently, I am working at a an external customer site, and the whole
    support staff carrys pagers, (on-call 24 hours a day), some of the
    employees return the pages, some don't since the statement was said we
    only get paid for forty hours, and since the call was off hours, I
    don't
    have to response.  Since I have the deep down feeling that if every
    single employee started saying this, that our customers will start to
    complin that they are not receiving proper coverage and cancel the
    contract.  I am just wondering what is the customer's point of view
    on all this in your particular cases, remember We value our customer
    if I do recall for an old Bob Palmer speech.  
    
    Sincerely,
    
    M. Teicher
    
    P.S. I do not receiver any compensation for wearing a pager....
    

I recevied a copy of a memo dated 31-Dec-92 from Jack Smith to all PP&P
book owners (the 'Orange Book'). It highlights changes Standby Pay,
Call-In Pay, Daily Overtime, and Vacation Accrual policies.  It states
that Exec Committee has approved these changes and that details of the
changes will be available at the end of January, both in hardcopy and in
VTX.

The vacation pay issue has already been discussed at length here, but not
much mention of the other areas. I am posting a summary of them here 
becuase of the potential impact on our personal finances.

The memo also states that current Personnel Policies were reviewed to
look for changes that would result in essential cost savings for the
company with the least negative impact on employess.

Policy prohibits from my posting the entire memo here without permission,
so I will merely summarize them:

Standby Pay - Effective end of Jan. 1993

  Standby pay will continue to be provided only to eligible employees
  engaged in external customer services work.
    
  Exceptions to eligibility criteria defined in the policy will require
  written approval by a strategy committee level vice president.
    
    
Call-in pay - Effective end of Jan. 1993
    
    
  Four (4) hours guaranteed call-in pay will only be provided to eligible
  employees engaged in external customer service work. All other hourly
  employees called into work will receive pay only for hours worked.
    
  Eligible employees may collect call-in pay without being on standby
  status. 
    
  Eligible exempt employees will be paid an hourly rate when called in.
    
  Requirement to travel to a customer/digital site is eliminated.
    
  Exceptions to eligibility criteria defined in the policy will require
  written approval by a strategy committee level vice president.
    

Daily overtime - Effective Jul. 1993
    
  Eliminate payment of daily overtime, (hours in excess of 8 per day),
  except for Alaska, California, Florida, Idaho, and Nevada where it is
  required by law.  
    
  Continue payment of overtime for time worked over 40 hours a week.  
    
  Exceptions for specific work groups needing to meet mission critical
  work require executive committee level vice president approval. 
    

    See 2304 re Standby change comments, fyi
    
    Nancy
    

Yea... too many notes, I had forgot that it was already being discussed here.

Lee

    Re .0:
    
    >  Four (4) hours guaranteed call-in pay will only be provided to
    > eligible employees engaged in external customer service work. All other
    > hourly employees called into work will receive pay only for hours
    > worked.
    
    I am pretty sure New Hampshire RSA requires a minimum pay, probably
    four hours, for employees who report to work.
    
    > Eliminate payment of daily overtime, (hours in excess of 8 per day),
    > except for Alaska, California, Florida, Idaho, and Nevada where it is
    > required by law.
  
    There may be an overtime requirement in NH too; I'll have to check
    that.
         
    
    				-- edp

    
>    >  Four (4) hours guaranteed call-in pay will only be provided to
>    > eligible employees engaged in external customer service work. All other
>    > hourly employees called into work will receive pay only for hours
>    > worked.
>    
>    I am pretty sure New Hampshire RSA requires a minimum pay, probably
>    four hours, for employees who report to work.
 
	I am pretty sure you are right. The owner of a store once told me that
	the reason she didn't call in extra help when things got busy was that
	if she did she'd have to pay them 4 hours min. Even if they worked less.

			Alfred

    	I put this in someplace else in here but, NH quietly changed their
    labor laws over a year ago. I happened to notice this when it was done.
    The main change that comes to mind is that there is no requirement to
    pay OT for more than 8 hours in a day. OT pay is only required for an 
    excess of 40 hours per week.
    
    	I saw no mention of anything regarding call out pay requirements.
    
    
    	Ray

Re .20, .21

I suspect that having most of the call-in folks in WC4 means that they are
exempt from federal requirements regarding overtime and (presumably) call-in
regulations. While state laws can and do vary, I also think that WC4 are
similarly exempt. When I worked in restaurants (in Mass.) I could be scheduled
for a minimum four shift, but could be sent home after three hours.

It's going to be very interesting to see how the system management positions
hold up over the next few years. I suspect that a person given a choice between
engineering and systems will opt for the office work. (And if that person 
doesn't feel strongly about it, the families are quick to voice their opiions.)

    Well, it's Feb 1st, this policy is now in effect - I'm surprised there
    aren't more notes on this here!
    
    My group - management is supposed to be discussing and coming up with
    something to propose - maybe including attempting to get the VP
    exception (although I'm not sure of this, it's what my manager has
    stated he has heard) ...
    		Jim

    We are on VOLUNTEER call in, that starts today.
    Page first name on list two times, 15 min. Then next name ect.,
    ect. If know one responds than it go's to extirnal F.E.
   
    Mike now less 4-7K per year.

    Mike,
    
    	Did you have a choice if you wanted to VOLUNTEER or not?
    We did not. We are on standby with no compensation and no choice in
    the matter. Either you take your rotation or it is insuboardination,
    and that will be dealt with through personnel.
    

    
    7What is the current policy regarding Stand-by pay?  We are still being
    asked to be oncall only being paid for time that we actually work when
    called.  Lately, I've been hearing the standby pay just for carrying
    the beeper (not time worked) was never cut out for some people as it
    was for us.  From what I was led to believe, this was only for people
    who directly support customers although some of these people who are 
    still getting standby pay do not support customers.  Has the policy
    changed?  Did we miss something?

$ VTX ORANGEBOOK

Look up standby pay in section 3.13
Look up callin pay in section 3.15

In my opinion:
Standby pay is supposed to be compensation for having to be 'available'
Callin pay is supposed to be compensation for having to actually work
after hours.

Lee

From Standyby Policy:


                             Standby Compensation


SCOPE: U.S.

Philosophy

| It is Digital's intent to respond to emergency external customer
| needs during non-working hours and to provide appropriate
| compensation to employees who are required to be available to meet
| those needs.

Policy

| Standby compensation is provided to employees who are required to
| limit their off-duty activities and be on call and available to go
| to work on short notice.

| Employees are assigned to standby status for specific periods of
| time that are approved in advance and are restricted to external
| customer related activities, only -- for example, to fulfill
| contracted support requirements.

| Employees who are required to report to work during off duty hours
| to perform emergency or scheduled work, but are not required
| to limit their off-duty activities, should not be placed on
| standby status.  However, they may be eligible for compensation
| under the provisions of Personnel Policy 3.15, Call-in Pay.

| When business needs change, and the employee is no longer required
| to be on call, the employee will be taken off standby status and
| will no longer receive standby compensation.

From Callin Policy:

                                 Call-In Pay


SCOPE: U.S.

Philosophy

| Digital believes that employees should be compensated for
| responding to emergencies during non-work hours that represent a
| significant intrusion into the employee's off-duty hours where the
| employee has no ability to control or manage the circumstances.

Policy

| Digital provides call-in pay to certain employees(*) when they
| perform unscheduled work for external customers during their
| regular off-duty hours.

(*) See policy for specific job codes