Conference 7.286::digital

    According to one of the moderator announcement notes, HUMANE was
    upgraded to the latest VMS/DECNET(OSI)/... software, and the system/
    RMS/files were tuned for maximum Notes server performance.  
    
    At least, those events seemed to correlate with the beginning of the 
    markedly slower response times from where I sit on the net...
    
    	Dave

    Yes.

    
    Paul had turned on RMS analysis on the notes conference file. I just
    talked with him about the performance and he switched it off and
    performance (at least at the moment) appears to be better than it has
    been in quite a while.
    
    Note that this file sees incredibly high usage. It's now being shadowed
    across two disks and cached in global buffers as well.
    
    -Joe
                  

    >Note that this file sees incredibly high usage. It's now being shadowed
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    not as much as soupbox, and one gets much faster response from
    the soupbox ;-)
    may be you can check with 'box system manager and see what trick they use 
    over there to improve their performance!

    by the way, i think this high usage by must all readers and not
    as much writers.

    i agree, this system has been too slow lately to the max, i therefor
    henceforth suggest that i become the moderator for this notes file, and 
    i pledge to improve its access time in multitudes and multitudes if 
    elected and to serve in the spirit my fellow DECeeess.

    thank you,
    \bye
    \nasser

    hi,
    
    i dont have anything to say, i just logged specially so that i'll
    be the first to write a note here with 1993 date on it.
    
    
    now, iam out of here
    
    :-)
    
    \bye
    \nasser

Yes, HUMANE's performance has been terrible lately.  Since the system disk was
rebuilt after the hardware failure a few weeks ago, I have tried many things to
improve its performance.  I did have RMS statistics turned on which, as Joe
mentioned, I turned off on Thursday.

HUMANE is 100% CPU busy twenty-four hours a day with an average of 200-400
people accessing the conference during the day.  The real solution is a faster
CPU or dual-hosting the thing.  I'm currently on the lookout for some more
equipment.

Paul

    What is HUMANE now, anyway?

HUMANE is a MicroVAX 3600 with 32 Mb of memory.  The DIGITAL Notes conference is
the only file on two volume shadowed RF71 disks.  There are three other RD disks
for the system, page/swap, and user files.

Paul

    .-1

    well Paul, here is your problems right there staring it in the eyes, throw
    this microVAX 3600 and get a VAX9000 or at least a VAX7000. i cant
    believe that the most important notes file in the whole of the
    cooperation where hundreds of thousands of DECees relies on to use it 
    to know the ins and outs of other important DECeees and the DEC news 
    on daily basics runs on only microVAX 3600!

    we are looking forward for a HUMANE upgrade to a faster machine in the
    not too near future.

    thank you and hope this helps.

    \nasser

Nasser,

Here is my address so you can send me your surplus VAX 7000:

	Paul Anderson
	OGO-1/M8
	Digital Equipment Corporation
	40 Old Bolton Road
	Stow, MA 01775-1215

Paul

P.S.  But really, a VAX 4000 Model 100 will be just fine.

    I vote NO to /Nasser being a MOD. The guy is constantly "pulling our
    feet" as a regular contributor,imagine him as a MOD. UGH!!!
    
    Ken

    Huh?
    
    I thought \Nasser only agreed to supply a VAX7000.  Why would that mean
    he could be a moderator?  You think it might be a bribe?
    
    Looking forward to the 7000 and new moderator,
    Ken
    

    if iam elected to be the mod i promise to uphold the constitution
    and to give the freedom for every one to express their opinion on
    any topic related to the notes file even though i might not like their 
    opinion on it and the way they wrote it and the shape of their last name 
    or how many mispelled words in itand to keep the notes file as a free 
    place to express ideas without fear of being bullied for what they wrote 
    and without any ones notes being  deleted Wiley nilly and without even the 
    author permission and i will not prohibit any one from responding or 
    writing their opinion no matter how  much i disagree with it.

    i also promise not to pull the feets too much if elected and to limit
    my notes only to the serious matters of utmost and keep the flag
    of freedom bright and shine over the horizon for all of us to enjoy
    in it.

    and thank you very much for the trust in me you put on my shoulders.
    and long live the freedom of expression in DIGITAL and in AMERICA.
    
    \nasser
    

    Nasser,
    	You forgot to say the pledge of allegiance.

    Jim Morton

    Nasser,
    
    You've brought a tear to my eye and a lump to my throat (or is that a
    lump sum to my seperation package).  Anyway, I'm saluting the DEC flag
    at this very moment.  Truth, justice, and the American way (up, up, and
    away).
    
    Thanks, keep pulling the feets
    Al

    Well that's all well and good, but what about the \deficit?

>    if iam elected to be the mod i promise to uphold the constitution
>    and to give the freedom for every one to express their opinion on
>    any topic related to the notes file even though i might not like their 
>    opinion on it and the way they wrote it and the shape of their last name 
>    or how many mispelled words in itand to keep the notes file as a free 
>    place to express ideas without fear of being bullied for what they wrote 
>    and without any ones notes being  deleted Wiley nilly and without even the 
>    author permission and i will not prohibit any one from responding or 
>    writing their opinion no matter how  much i disagree with it.

    This has to be a candidate for the longest sentence ever written!

    	Stu

>>    if iam elected to be the mod i promise to uphold the constitution
>>    and to give the freedom for every one to express their opinion on
>>    any topic related to the notes file even though i might not like their 
>>    opinion on it and the way they wrote it and the shape of their last name 
>>    or how many mispelled words in itand to keep the notes file as a free 
>>    place to express ideas without fear of being bullied for what they wrote 
>>    and without any ones notes being  deleted Wiley nilly and without even the 
>>    author permission and i will not prohibit any one from responding or 
>>    writing their opinion no matter how  much i disagree with it.
>
>    This has to be a candidate for the longest sentence ever written!
>
>    	Stu

It's a good thing \nasser isn't German or he'd be creating equally long words to
go with his long sentences :-)

ccb

    
    Re: > This has to be a candidate for the longest sentence ever
        > written!
    
    Not even close.  I've forgotten the details, but there was one of
    William Faulkner's novels where an entire chapter was one sentence.
    
    Steve
    

    > Not even close.  I've forgotten the details, but there was one of
    >  William Faulkner's novels where an entire chapter was one sentence.

    not a big deal iam planing to write a *whole book* on my life and 
    experiences in DEC that will be all just one sentence.

    \nasser

    >not a big deal iam planing to write a *whole book* on my life and 
    >experiences in DEC that will be all just one sentence.
    
    If life in DEC is just one long sentence, when are
    we eligible for parole?
    

    
>    If life in DEC is just one long sentence, when are
>    we eligible for parole?
    
    I *love* it.  That was great!

To communicate effectively, you should keep sentences to no longer than
16-24 words. Readers Digest averages 17.
								- Ian W.

>To communicate effectively, you should keep sentences to no longer than
>16-24 words. Readers Digest averages 17.

You're operating from incorrect assumptions.  Reader's Digest might
be "effective" at passing on its impoverished view of the world,
but it certainly isn't good writing.

Nasser, on the other hand, is an artist.

Re:            <<< Note 2303.25 by MU::PORTER "savage pencil" >>>

>You're operating from incorrect assumptions.  Reader's Digest might
>be "effective" at passing on its impoverished view of the world,
>but it certainly isn't good writing.
>
>Nasser, on the other hand, is an artist.

Of course there are both good and bad artists...  :-)

-  David

Re .22:
   
>    If life in DEC is just one long sentence, when are
>    we eligible for parole?

I'd guess maybe the next round of TFSO.

    You are eligible for parole immediately. Simply use the Open Door
    Policy.
    
    Ken

  The performance is verging on the totally unacceptable this week.  Do
  we have any concept of what is eating up all the network links to HUMANE?
  Is it batch extract jobs or people opening the conference and staying in
  it all day or what?  Maybe you should be running an idle job killer on
  this node (even as braindead as those things usually are).  I tried
  connecting from 8 AM to 8 PM a number of times per hour and got
  "insufficient resources on remote node" every single time.  Based on that
  i'd have to say this conference has become just about unuseable.

								paul

    i find that the best time to access this file is between around
    mid night (eastern standard time) and about 4-5 am (also eastern
    standard time), at least between this time the system is up, but
    it is still slow i feel even though i dont live too far from it , which
    is what strange about it, we are both in the north east , iam near the
    massussachautes border with new Hamshire and the human:: node is not
    too far from the boarder too on the other side.

    anyway, i just wanted to tell fellow DECeees the good times to access
    this notes files and not get "insufficient resources on remote node".
    
    hope this helps.
    
    \nasser

  re: .-1

  Hopefully only lunatics (excluding me and thee and 3rd shift workers;^))
  are trying to access this conference between Midnight and 5 AM.  If the
  conference is doomed to be unavailable during other hours then maybe we
  should just make management's day and shut it down for good.  It really
  is coming close to being useless the way things are now.

								paul

    RE: .31-
    
    	I guess that makes everyone outside the Eastern time zone a 
    lunatic, too ;-).
    
    Phil

re: .-1

Was there ever any question about that??

;^)

    RE: .33-
    
    	Me or them? ;-)
    

    Of course, living in a different time zone helps!
    
    Calvin
    

There was a specific problem with HUMANE yesterday that I found and fixed. 
Let's not give up on this old creaky hardware just yet.

Paul

    Paul, with all the TFSO'ing alot of systems have become available.
    You might be able to pick up a 4000 variety pretty cheap. 
    
    Jim C.
    

    What about going back to DECnet Phase IV?  Things seemed alot better
    before the switch.

re .37, new equipment

I'm on the lookout for a VAX 4000 that could be transferred into my cost center.

re .38, DECnet Phase IV

I've turned off the DECnet Event Dispatcher which should help performance. 
There are a lot of network events with a machine such as HUMANE that are of
little interest.

Paul

Talk to the Alpha and ask for a Sandpiper to host Digital on.

Then they can say: "Digital runs on Alpha". :-)

    This is the first time I have entered a note please bear with me.
    
    Yesterday I traced out the network path from our site (CX03) to node
    Humane and I found no network errors until I got to the lan on which
    Humane resides.   I could not look at the counter on node Humane but
    the router on the lan was experiencing definite hardware failures on
    the lan itself.  The router on the lan was basically retransmitting
    as many packets as were getting through the first time.
    
    I feel that the performance would improve if they fixed the hardware
    failures on the lan.  Could the moderators get someone to check into
    this please.
    
    Thank You,
    
    Paul
    Network specialist in the CSC

I will contact our network people and have them investigate.  Thank you for
reporting this!

Paul

    I finally got into DIGITAL this afternoon and the response
    has been incredibly good - unlike previous days when it moved
    at turtle speed. Maybe you all have fixed the LAN HW problems?
    At any rate, it's a big improvement. Thank you to the HUMANE
    owners who enable the rest of outside the 3M area to learn what's
    going on up North!
    
    KB
    

re .43:

>Maybe you all have fixed the LAN HW problems?

Maybe all the Massachusetts DECies are out shoveling snow instead of noting.


Pilar.

    
    Please ship as much snow as you want to Georgia - were sick of rain.
    
    Ken
    

    we are getting lots of snow as we speak right now here in lovely nashua 
    where the ZKO headquarters are and it is coming down with heavy now and the 
    weather forecaster said on the radio that we will get up to a foot in snow 
    by the morning so the DECeees will have hard time driving tomorrow around 
    this area going and coming from work so please be careful and dont drive 
    too fast it is slippery also.

    \bye
    \nasser

    Tried to get into DIGITAL about 10:30 last night and got:
    
    	Dynamic Memory Exhausted
    

    Like, maybe it was tired?
    
    I think I've been reading too many of Nassar's notes...
    We are punchy from a week of rain here in Georgia.  Lack of
    sun can really make you cranky.
    
    KB
    

I got the same message at about 6:30 AM.....  Dynamic Memory Exhausted
   guess we'll have to give those DRAM's some of our unusable vacation allowance!
   Hate to burn out our most valued notes file!   Give it a rest.
   :^)

    I've been having serious problems with this conference today, but only
    from DECwindows notes. When I try to get the next note or reply,
    nothing comes back, for hours. Using the terminal interface works fine.
    This seems to happen when the note is longer than the window, or it
    might occur when the seen map is updated. Has anyone else seen this?
    

I'll be happy to ship to you as much snow as you're willing to pay the shipping
and handling on.

Larry
  ~

    
    
    RE: .51
    
    Opps!  You got me!  I do however work for DEC and not the government -
    guess Georgia will have to make it's own snow. 
    
    Ken
    
    

    I really hate to complain about this, but it's becomming sooooo
    frustrating!
    
    Last night at 3 a.m. I tried to access the conf and got a "insufficient
    system resources at remote node".  
    
    Noting at this (present) time of night still takes a minute between
    screens.
    
    What happened!?!?!?!
    
    "jackin' the house", Bob

re .53

Bob and all other DIGITAL Notes conference users,

After consulting with a number of others who are knowledgable about how VAX
Notes servers work, a number of parameters on HUMANE have been changed.  The
most important is the reduction of the maximum number of allowed connections
from 512 to 256.  Hopefully this will limit access to HUMANE to what it can
handle with good performance.

I ask that you please close your connection to the conference when you are done
so that others can access the conference.  If there appear to be too many idle
connections, I may have to institute an automatic "idle connection" killer.

Paul

    Paul, so far it looks good, when i hit next unseen, i get the next
    note very fast, before it used to take about 1 minute.

    if this stays like this, in behave of all DECeees i want to thank you
    and the ones who found the problem with the access limit number and
    i think we all should put our hands together right now and give them
    a very good loud of applause.

    with this kind of performance i think i'll even hang around this file
    much more than i did before the fix.

    keep up the good work.
    
    \bye
    \nasser

    ... but I agree, something has changed, and even for evening response
    this is great.  Future notes will tell the tale; but for now, kudos!
    
    Dan
    

    Well, I tried several times to get into the file today, and
    consistently got "connect to network object rejected".
    
    I assume this is a result of the lowered parameter...
    
    I used to use a shadow conference, but as I recall it went away. 
    Is DIGITAL still being shadowed, and if so, where?
    
    	Dave

    >Well, I tried several times to get into the file today, and
    >consistently got "connect to network object rejected".
    >
    >I assume this is a result of the lowered parameter...
    
    i dont think so, i think human:: was off-line today becuase they were
    working on it to fix it.
    
    >Is DIGITAL still being shadowed, and if so, where?
Digital style of working (Shadow) CNOTES::NOTES$SHADOWED:DIGITAL	     819
    
    \bye
    \nasser

The conference was unavailable for part of Monday due to an apparent VAX Notes
bug.  This problem causes the current Notes server process to hang occasionally. 
People who are already connected are unaffected but no new connections can be
made.

I will work on finding the solution to this problem today.

Paul

    ... There was a time a few days back that the response-time was
    approaching OK, even in daytime; but now it seems to have backslid.
    
    Still twiddling parameters, I suppose... or is the load just too great?
    
    I suppose it may be time to switch to the shadowed version...  ??
    

    i agree with you Dan on this too, i wanted to say something about
    it my self but was afraid of sounding too complaining all the time.

    i think due to importance of this notes file and its wide appeal among
    DECeees in the rank and the files and also in the upper management 
    structures  and also how it served in critical disseminating of 
    informations when  it was really needed, and that we know that sometimes 
    big manager read this note file too, i would like therefor to suggest that 
    a fully  dedicated DECeee and a fully dedicated big computer be set for 
    the whole  and sole purposes of setting up this note file and taking care 
    of it and its performance problems and backing it up and things like this 
    because the DECeees who take care of this now might be too busy to 
    notice these things all the time. this is just a suggestion i hope that 
    will be taken  in serious account in future discussions in this matter
    and related issues.

    \bye
    \nasser

	re .61:

>    ...i would like therefor to suggest that 
>    a fully  dedicated DECeee and a fully dedicated big computer be set for 
>    the whole  and sole purposes of setting up this note file and taking care 
>    of it and its performance problems and backing it up and things like this 

	...providing you can find any DECeee dumb enough to have his/her
	job depend on management's not deciding to shut down this conference.
	(Presumably the bit about the big computer is total fantasy).

	/Tom

    Anyone care to volunteer their time and hardware to take this off of
    Paul's hands? I'm sure he wouldn't mind at all. If my memory serves
    me correct didn't DIGITAL first reside on HUMAN, Peter Conklin's
    11/750? Peter is now with the Alpha AXP group. Perhaps he could find
    a piece of iron sufficient to handle this conference? I know at one
    time this conference was near and dear to him.
    
    Jim C.
    

Just my $.02 worth...

I know Paul very well and I am sure that if someone were to "take the
conference off his hands" he would mind very much.  BUT - If someone
were to come forth with a more powerful machine to host the conference
I am sure that he would not mind.  I know that Paul has been looking very
seriously for a more powerful machine that is within his budget (ie. $0.00)
So far he has not found anything.

Anyone have any equipment to offer?

i think it's all Nassers fault and DECeees are suffering due to
his typisting because he types those long sentences without the brakes 
in them and this tyres out the poor notes file server which
has to perform amazed feets of reading notes without being able
to take a breathe because the rank and the file are demanding
to be served with his sparklering prose style and if he could
put in the full stops and semicolons everything would be much 
easier even without being getting the big dedicated computer.  
this is just a suggestion and i hope it will be taken on sirius 
account in future discussions of this matter and related issues.

\bye
\dave

    ... how to save time in keeping up with HUMANE::DIGITAL.  I've been
    **reading** there for the last day or two and its availability and
    responsiveness are at least an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE better than the
    original (during "prime-time," I think it's closer to TWO orders of
    magnitude...).  If more folks who only want to READ would do so at the
    shadow node, then it wouldn't take so long for the occasional WRITErs
    to do so...
    
    So, some hints...
    
    If you NEVER want to write here:
    mod ent DIGITAL/file=CNOTES::NOTES$SHADOWED:DIGITAL
    
    (The above file is set NO WRITE and appears to lag no more than an hour
    behind the original)
    
    If you OCCASIONALLY want to write here:
    add ent SHADIGITAL/file=CNOTES::NOTES$SHADOWED:DIGITAL
    
    When you want to reply, remember the notenumber and the time of the
    most recent entry in SHADIGITAL, and when you (finally!!) get into
    ::DIGITAL, do a SET SEEN/BEF=28-JAN-1993:08:27 or somesuch, so you
    don't lose track of any new stuff...
    
    Hope this helps...
    
    At any rate it won't help as much as BATCH EXTRACTors...  Would some
    helpful soul post a pointer to what they consider the best (and
    best-documented) system for doing this across multiple NotesFiles?  I
    know there're some out there that even allow a similar UI to
    VAXnotes...?  
    
    PS -- re .65 -- Pretty darn close, imho, Dave...  Better watch it,
    \nasser, look to your loreleis, the savvy pennzoil is gainin' on ya...  :-)

A batch extract service for DIGITAL is available - see note 2209.

As for the shadow conference, another way to use it is to have just one
entry in your notebook, pointing to the shadow by default.  When you want
to enter a note, use the command:

	MODIFY ENTRY DIGITAL /FILE=HUMANE::DIGITAL

and then open DIGITAL and enter your note.  When you are done, use:

	MODIFY ENTRY DIGITAL /FILE=CNOTES::NOTES$SHADOWED:DIGITAL

to go back to the shadow; your "seen map" will be preserved.

(This may be more effort than it's worth for some - I use the two-entry
method myself.)

The shadow is updated hourly which should be sufficient for all but the most
compulsive noters.

				Steve

Nasser,

I user AVN for batch note extraction for multiple conferences.  In fact 
I use it for ALL my notes interaction - reading, writing, replying 
finding notes/conferences, manipulating my notebook, the lot!  It's 
written by Deccies and a helpful lot they are on the rare occasions that 
there are problems - I've never had one in the 3.5 years I've used 
AVN.  There's also PAVN - see the notes conference on AVN called ..... AVN!!

Cathy

    Hmmm... As the author of .66 which (if memory serves) recently raised
    the question of batch note extraction in this string, I can see I have
    to put in jest a tad more work on the distinctiveness of my style...    :-)
    
    Followup question:  Thanks Cathy, sounds great.  How's about some
    pointer(s) to the ::AVN NotesFile, and/or to kits/docs for AVN and
    PAVN...?  It's clear that YOU don't need any help :-) finding any new
    conference(s) because of AVN's superior power as a Notes handler, but
    I'm looking at a slight bootstrap problem, you see...
    
    Thanks in ::AVNce...
    
    \ps, I stylechecked, it's me...  \dan ...
    
    :-)
                

>How's about some pointer(s) to the ::AVN NotesFile, and/or to kits
    
VAX NOTES Tool - AVN		ODIXIE::AVN				  
    
    \bye
    \nasser

    PAVN (Programmed AVN - written in C while AVN is DCL) was replaced by
    RNU (Remote Notes Utility) a while ago.
    
    The conference on RNU is XCELR8::RNU - kit KP7 etc.)
    
    Gary Harding

    I've added both conferences to my notebook but after a real quick dip
    into both, I haven't (yet) come across any compare/contrast action... 
    Has RNU really supplanted PAVN?  Pros/cons of either, preferably by
    folks who've tried 'em both?
    

	As far as I know, RNU *is* the current version of PAVN. Details
	in XCELR8::RNU - if it's still available. Unfortunately, Roy Law,
	the developer and only maintainer of RNU, has left the company.
	(In my view, his work on RNU could have been instrumental in
	putting Notes on the world map, had we chosen to use it). So it
	is now unsupported.

	I have used bare Notes, AVN, and RNU, each for over a year
	intensively. AVN is better than Notes, and RNU is better than
	AVN. Details on installation are in the conference, but basically
	all you have to do is copy over a command procedure and run it.
	The procedure then drags over whatever else is necessary and sets
	up your environment.

	I'm writing this reply from RNU - one weakness of the approach is
	that you may find several other replies saying the same thing
	before this one, as I am replying in mid-morning to yesterday's
	note.

	/Tom

    
    
    Cheers to the folks who were responsible for the upgrades to the system.  
    It feels like driving a sports car now rather than a Rambler.
    
    
    Mike

I started as a user of PAVN but moved to RNU some time ago.  RNU is really just
an updated version of PAVN.  If you are using PAVN now you can just copy of the
RNU.EXE at it will continue to work with your existing PAVN files.

RNU works under VMS 5.5 (I believe that PAVN does not) and has several bug
fixes and a few new features.  Most of RNU is written in C but it does create
and submit some DCL procedures to run as batch jobs.

AVN (as opposed to PAVN) is mostly written in DCL but has one or two programs
to support it.  It has similar features to PAVN/RNU but tends to be a lot
slower.

Gary Harding

This week, HUMANE has not been as busy as usual.  This could be due to:

  � Lack of noting activity
  � Increased use of shadow conferences
  � CPU upgrade of HUMANE
  � Rejection of Notes requests by HUMANE or the network

I would like to think that the first three are true and the fourth is false.

To those who access HUMANE::DIGITAL, please reply if you have experienced any
rejections recently.  These would include messages like "network partner exited"
and "network partner aborted logical link".

Performance and access has been good from here, but then again I sit about
twenty feet from HUMANE!

Paul

    HI,
    
    I forget if it was Monday or Tue. but I had 3 or 4 "network partner
    lost" events in one hour.  It was afternoon and I was noting in a
    background window.  I was afraid you may have put an activity time out
    on HUMANE.  
    
    No problems today.
    
    Judy
    

Judy,

So you were connected to HUMANE and were disconnected during your session, as
opposed to getting an error message when trying to open the conference?

This matches behavior I've seen recently when most Notes activity on HUMANE
stops and either gradually builds up again or resumes all of a sudden. 
Something is disconnecting links and I'll have to see if it's HUMANE or the
network.

There is no activity time-out or link killer on HUMANE.

Paul

    Humane was not accessable at 10:30 this am. Things have gotten better
    though.

    I kept getting "network parter exited" earlier this week.
    

                               I M P O R T A N T

                            NEI MAYNARD ANNOUNCEMENT

        
        WHAT:	Service Interruption on Network

        WHY:	Easynet Backbone Routing Problem 

        WHEN:	Wednesday, 3/10 at 5 p.m. until Thursday, 3/11 at
                11:00 a.m.

        IMPACT: During this time, users in MSO and OGO were unable
                to perform certain functions on the network such as
                sending VAXmail or ALL-IN-1 mail to systems at other sites
		and setting host to systems at other sites.