Conference 7.286::digital

Ed,

DELTA is not taking credit for the reinstatement of the RSS.  We did, however,
receive many phone calls on our CALL DELTA line about the RSS.  These messages
were entered into our system and forwarded to Bob Schmitt.  Please note that the
message entered as note 2242.119 is the response that went out today to those
who contacted DELTA about the RSS situation, so it is natural that the message
mentioned DELTA.

The call to save the RSS was so unanimous and widespread through the company, I
don't think any one person or group was responsible for the reversal of the
decision.  I believe the DELTA program served a valuable function in gathering
opinions from employees who perhaps knew of no other way to express their
concern.  DELTA was one voice among many.

DELTA makes no judgement about ideas or suggestions, nor decides if they are
"politically correct."  DELTA is a conduit for directing ideas and suggestions
to the appropriate people in the company.  We can track responses and make sure
people respond, but we cannot guarantee a satisfactory result.

Employee involvement programs like DELTA can help a company like Digital in
times such as these when the industry and the company is changing so fast. 
Look, I was in the field up until a few months ago and I was cynical about
DELTA, also, feeling that it was one of those "corporate overhead" groups that
added no value.  After seeing what kind of ideas come through and seeing that
company management does respond to the average employee's ideas gives me hope we
can change things.

Paul

I agree.  DELTA provided a channel for our feedback, and that is an extremely
useful function.

Bob

    
    Hmmm...
    
    Ok, I see how DELTA served as the "complaint department" in this case.  
    What I was questioning was can DELTA truly make for significant change
    given the fact that it is part of the system it is designed to change?
    This may be more philosophical than anything else.
    
    If I submit an idea to eliminate a program or service, how can I be
    sure that it does not go to someone with a vested interest in seeing the
    program/service continue?  
    
    -Ed
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    
>    If I submit an idea to eliminate a program or service, how can I be
>    sure that it does not go to someone with a vested interest in seeing the
>    program/service continue?  
>    
>    -Ed
 
	This is just exactly what happens.....in my experience.

	All of my DELTA suggestions have been blown off by
	the people in charge of the departments I discussed.

	The watchword seemed to be:

		"We are going to be doing more of what we're doing now."

	I asked the DELTA folks to stop calling me, as I did not
	choose to participate in their program anymore.

	I maintain that DELTA is a great program if all you want to do
	is change the color of the wastebaskets.  For anything
	substantive, forget it.


	Steve H   

    I submitted an idea to Delta about 2 years ago, and I got this fancy
    certificate and a cassette tape from them about two weeks ago.  I have
    a friend of mine that sent about 4 ideas to Delta, and He got 4
    certificates.
    
    The thing that really gets my goat is this:  Aren't we supposed to be
    utilizing Delta for COST SAVING ideas?
    
    When I got my certificate, I called the Delta number and gave them a
    new idea.  Don't send out certificates.  That costs money.
    
    Their response was something to the affect that they will continue to
    send out certificates, and they appreciate my idea.
    
    Sorry Delta, my personal opinion is that you guys are overhead and
    should be part of the cost reduction.
    
    One mans opinion.  don't take it personal.
    
    Bob
    

On the other hand...

I've found DELTA very helpful.  They _do_ send ideas to the folks responsible
for functions who could benefit.  And yes, that tends to mean that change
must be recognized as beneficial by the folks doing things the current way.

But that is not always bad.  My experience has been that if the (ultimate)
recipient is interested in doing things cheaper/faster/better, they will
respond to your idea.  In fact, they may want to meet with you and pick
your brain in gory detail.

Hmmm.  How 'bout that?  It requires PEOPLE who do work to listen to PEOPLE
with suggestions.  Do you really think anyone (much less DELTA) could *force*
change upon someone who is supposed to be DEC's "person in charge of doing
XYZ?"  If it's so important, you can always escalate to that person's manager.
But do you really think anyone (much less DELTA) could *force* that manager
to "rewrite the frammis" based on your suggestion?  Would you want that to
happen to you?

DELTA is a conduit.  They have been effective for me.  When the person at the
other end of the conduit is receptive, very good things can happen.

Clearly, your mileage may vary.  

~Karl B.

    Before anyone calls DELTA overhead, be aware that they are now offering
    the TQM Integrator for sale to customers. My account team should
    realize some real revenue for services and SI from that.

    
    It is worse than I thought, Delta has become another department that
    produces useless scraps of paper and, my personal favorite, CASETTE
    TAPES!!!
    
    Ok, Here's a submission to DELTA for you!. I suggest the company tally
    the number of people who have 20/20 corrected vision who receive
    casette tapes.  At more than a buck and a half a piece, The savings
    from killing all casette distribution would more than pay for adult
    literacy classes for those individuals.
    
    My $.02
    
    -Ed
    
    

    
    re: .0 and other "Ed" entries
    
    Ed,
    
    I often find your comments interesting even when I don't agree with
    them. This time though, I'm getting a bit upset with the diatribe.
    
    Again and again you state attacks on an organization like DELTA,
    without ANY first hand knowledge. You wool gather about someone else's
    statements and then rant in here, as though you had some idea about the
    subject. Cut it out. You're smarter than that.
    
    No point by point here, but as an example: 
    
       > Delta has become another department that
       > produces useless scraps of paper and, my personal favorite, CASETTE
       > TAPES!!!
    
    No way, Mr. Ed - those cassettes were from a Sales training run - not
    produced by or for DELTA. (A really good tape to listen to, by the
    way.)
    
    And please don't give me a submission to DELTA - It's there for
    employees to get involved in, not for uninformed, irrational off the
    cuff remarks.
    
    I'm not connected with DELTA except as a contributer, but if you even
    begin to look for info on DELTA, you can't help but notice one thing
    that really stands out: DELTA's first line of help is for those who
    "PROPOSE AND DO" - it isn't a corporate suggestion box. Now, a lot of
    the entries in the DELTA notesfile and on VTX are just that -
    suggestions but, the real strength comes from "PROPOSING AND DOING."
    
    For workers who see a problem and work a solution, DELTA works as a
    multiplier to make those efforts into company wide efforts. 
    
    The success of DELTA dosen't require my boosting, the market place
    outside of Digital has recognized it's efectiveness. That's why the
    DELTA solution is selling to other companies - read Best in Class.
    
    Now, instead of worrying about how you'll fail IF you deal with DELTA,
    how about walking some of your, otherwise, good talk and then
    submitting the results. Maybe instead of continuing to cost-cut our way
    to profitability you can help us grow up and out of the current crunch.
    
    Sorry for the P.C. incorrect reply but your lashing out at the wrong
    target.
    
     J.B. 

    
    
   >The success of DELTA dosen't require my boosting, the market place
   >outside of Digital has recognized it's efectiveness. That's why the
   >DELTA solution is selling to other companies - read Best in Class.
   
    I don't question the motivation.  I'm worried about implementation.
     
   >Now, instead of worrying about how you'll fail IF you deal with DELTA,
   >how about walking some of your, otherwise, good talk and then
   >submitting the results. Maybe instead of continuing to cost-cut our way
   >to profitability you can help us grow up and out of the current crunch.
    
    Could you expand on this a little?  I'm confused.  
   
    
                                                     -Ed
    

    It's my understanding that DELTA is not a mechanism for implementing
    change but an avenue to getting ideas in front of the "right" people. I
    have only 1 major set of experiences with elevating a problem (I had
    over 400 other employees contact me agreeing it was a problem) to
    DELTA. Frankly, through no fault of DELTA, i got dumped on REAL HARD
    because of my efforts. I mean leaned on real hard by senior management
    types (they are all gone now through SERP and "re-assignments").
    
    I found found DELTA to be extremely helpful during that period -
    particularly Jim Pitts. They were responsive and had more to do with
    saving my bacon at the time than they probably realize. The problem?
    Well it's still here and (IMO) still hurting us big time. But DELTA
    gave me a chance to speak my peace - which is all I wanted. And for
    that I thank them.
    
    Gene Haag, Network Consultant
    Minneapolis, Minnesota

    
    Re: .9
    
    One more question: why was DELTA distributing sales training casettes?
    
    -Ed
    

    
    
    >I don't question the motivation.  I'm worried about implementation.
    
    Wheww! Sorry, I thought you were questioning the motivation. In terms
    of implementation, DELTA dosen't DO the task, process, etc. It is a
    conduit. The originator retains the ownership and the responsibility
    for success. A lot of folks (some writing in here) seem to think you
    can throw an idea over the wall and DELTA has the responsibility to get
    it done. 
    
    That kind of a system has been tried elsewhere and it fails everytime.
    I *believe* DELTA is successful because it manages the flow of
    information and tracks the results. It dosen't get involved in the
    implementation. Thus, DELTA retains an impartial position in terms of
    linking input to the process structure. It, DELTA, is no guarantor of
    acceptance of a suggestion or idea or even widespread application of a
    process. That's the responsibility of the submitter. DELTA is a tool
    that enables the submitter to get acceptance, application, etc - easier.
    
    If you concentrate on the Propose and Do model instead of the
    suggestion box model, DELTA really begins to show it's value to the
    system of employee empowerment.
    
    In regards to my comments to you - you seem to have some hesitation in
    regards to using DELTA - DON'T HESTITATE. But, please, hook into VTX
    DELTA and read the background info. Scan the intro notes in the DELTA
    notesfile. Then, think about some of those insightful, if somewhat
    caustic :-), comments you've delivered on the state of the company.
    Now, some things you can't propose and do - no way. With some thought,
    you can find ways to bring about change that might or should be brought
    about company wide, beginning at the local level.
    
    An example of local implementation is the review process adopted by the
    DELTA group itself. It's been published in VTX and the notesfile. It's
    the kind of change that could have been suggested company wide with no
    results or, implemented within one's own group, document the effort and
    results, publish same - and make everyone else responsible to emulate
    the success.
    
    You've demonstrated several times that you can think global - now, ACT 
    local, then publish the results via DELTA. All of us thinking and
    working together are required for Digital to be successful. Channel
    your insightful thinking into local implementations of solutions and
    give us the benifit of your efforts - DELTA will help the management
    chain to take notice.    

    re: .12
    
    The cassettes were issued along with the certificates. A nice little
    attaboy that cost very little and contained a message by Peter Block on
    the Empowered Manager. A great little message for ANYONEEE to hear that
    wanted to listen and, in this case, was targetted at DELTA authors.
    Maybe others got different tapes, I don't know for sure. I've shared
    mine and in spite of initial reservations, everyone so far, has had
    good things to say about the messages.
    
    The labeling on the tapes indicates they were produced earlier this
    year for Sales distribution.
    
    John B.

I would like to respond to the previous notes expressing concern about the cost
of DELTA certificates and the cassette tapes.

DELTA certificates cost 7 cents each and are printed on recycled paper in the
DELTA office on available equipment.  They're sent through interoffice mail.

The cassette tapes that were given out with certificates, for ideas actually
implemented, were donated to DELTA for a one-time distribution.

Key DELTA goals are to acknowledge, recognize and promote employee involvement.
DELTA's policy is to recognize all ideas with a certificate.  This not only
shows appreciation for the people extending themselves to propose improvements,
it also gets senior managers involved.  By requiring their signature on the 
certificate they become aware of the extra effort put forth by the people
submitting ideas.  The overall response from those receiving certificates has
been very positive.

We are well aware of the importance of company cost-savings efforts and tap all
resources to see that the ones that come to our attention are communicated and
shared.

Kathy

    Let me comment that the reason my customer was drawn to the tool that
    DELTA has developed is for the simple fact that they did not have a
    "conduit" that was effective. I've learned more about DELTA during the
    selling process of TQM Integrator than I had in the 6 years I've been
    with the company.
    
    My customer (DoD) became interested in DELTA's tool simply because they
    so *no* tool in the industry that was as effective in managing the
    "process" of communication between the employee and management. I
    didn't sell it. One of our customers sold it. They simply pointed to
    Digital as having THE tool.
    
    As I said before, DELTA's tool is helping bring revenue to the
    Corporation from my account. It facilitates as does our DELTA office.
    My customer respects OUR process.
    
    Please don't complain about DELTA but rather use it to convey what you
    think might be necessary to get us all back on our feet.

Well, I sent my memo about RSS to IDEASCENTRAL as well as Russ Gullotti. The 
response I received directly from Russ indicated that he knew nothing of the 
impending RSS TFSO. Of course, this was just a short time after he assumed his 
new position, so I don't really fault his not knowing. I do question the fact 
that he was not on the distribution from Delta when the issue was so 
far-reaching.

Regards,

Jim

re .17

� I do question the fact that he was not on the distribution from Delta when
� the issue was so far-reaching.

DELTA sent all comments concerning RSS to Bob Schmitt.

Paul

    Ref base note
    
    I believe that DELTA is a Crock.  I don't know how many people
    (overhead) it takes to administer DELTA.  But I'd like to know.
    
    The concept of DELTA and a suggestion system is a good one.  But I
    really question the Return on Investment (ROI) from what it may cost to
    run it versus results.  I really don't see many new suggestions
    lately.  I further question if the right senior managers are ofter
    informed of a suggestion or concern.
    

    
    My own experience with DELTA was quite laughable.
    
    About three years ago, our engineering group had ordered the latest
    color VaxStation 3100s for our two secretarys.  The engineers in the
    group were using obsolete VS2000s and VTs, which were totally
    inadequate for running sophisticated simulation and mechanical CAD
    software.
    
    Naturally, the engineers resented seeing the secretarys using state of
    the art color workstations to read Big Mail while we watched the tiny
    wristwatch all day, so we began the process of griping up through our
    management chain.
    
    Our upper management was about as responsive as you might expect (they
    didn't actually say 'stuff it' but it was pretty close), so when DELTA
    came along it looked like a good way to try to get their attention.
    
    I fired off a memo, which soon got promoted to an IDEA and tagged with
    a number for future reference.  I began to receive a steady stream of
    DELTA memos informing me of the progress that my IDEA was making. 
    After a few months, I received notification that my IDEA had been
    forwarded to my upper management for their consideration.  Thanks
    DELTA!
    
    Almost three years later (actually, just a month or so ago), some DELTA
    person followed up with an Award Certificate and solicitation of
    feedback.  Needless to say, I really blasted them for being so
    completely useless.
    
    Fire all these bums and use the money to get engineers the tools they
    need to do their jobs.
    
    Ed

    hav you sent that idea to delta?

    
    > hav you sent that idea to delta?
    
    It's funny you should ask, but I did indeed forward an IDEA that they
    should fire themselves and save the company some money.
    
    I received another award certificate for my IDEA.
    
    Ed

re: .22
    
>    I received another award certificate for my IDEA.
    
Gee, Ed, i submitted 4 (i think) suggestions and only got 1 certificate! ;^)

DELTA seems sorta like a management hot-line...i'd like them to be more than
a call-routing group, but that seems to be basically what they're chartered
to be.

Ideally they should do more than dispatch the suggestion to someone else and
then assume that everything is OK unless i complain.  It would be nice if
every suggestion was like a hot-line call that couldn't be closed and gotten
off their books until the person making the suggestion indicated that they
were happy with the final disposition.  But even most of our internal help
desk/hot-line groups don't seem to be competent to do that with their calls.
The onus is always on the person making the suggestion/call (or so it seems).

								paul

I have no first-hand knowledge of the EFFECTIVENESS of Delta...

... having submitted a couple of suggestions for our SSB group.  I got some
feedback from what sounded like the appropriate managers who said they were
going to take actions like those I'd suggested, but I did not personally
observe the closing of the loop.

... but I *have* received at least one Delta Certificate, and last summer I
also received a cassette tape similar to the one described in .14, prepared for
the Field Sales Force, with one side (at least) by Peter Block on the
"Empowered Manager."

(Incidentally, to the person who criticized the use of the tape format instead
of cellulose when we all can read:  the cassette medium is in fact quite useful
as a means of painless, "semi-subliminal :-)"  information transfer to the
Field.  Wouldn't YOU almost IMMEDIATELY roundfile Yet Another CorporateSpeak
communication on something as general as The Empowered Manager?  Turns out that
there was SOME value therein, and I wouldn't have had that value from that same
message in the printed medium.  I spent a year in the Field, driving a
DECwreck, and I learned a LOT from various sales literature and promo and
program-positioning cassettes.  What ELSE ya gonna do when stuck in traffic on
495 or 101 or the Beltway or the Loop?  Talk-shows get stale pretty fast, and
by the time you're stuck it's too late for traffic reports.  So I have no gripe
with the cassettes in general, and even less when I hear that this particular
batch was surplus and donated to DELTA -- though I'm a bit unhappy with one
possible REASON for the surplus...)

... but back to the Peter Block tape -- much of it WAS helpful, but one part
made me literally sneer with derision and outright contempt for some blatant
apologism for what I hope to have been the _status quo ante Palmer_.  I can't
recall the exact quote (and I think I've posted this elsewhere in DEC
cyberspace) but it was in a section where Block is talking about the factors
that make it difficult for us, as Managers, to build an organization that lets
us live out OUR dreams of the optimal organization.  At one point (I believe
this tape was made about a year ago) he said words to this effect:  

"I know these are difficult times in our company.  Sometimes it's difficult to
know what the overall policies or strategies are.  But I truly believe we
should really thank Top Management, we should all send them THANK YOU notes,
for being so disorganized.  Because it is in times like these when we are
really FREE to build the sorts of empowered organizations that will let us live
out OUR dreams."

"Oh SURE," I said.  "Be thankful that top management has no discernible
strategy, that the ship is steering aimlessly amongst the 'bergs and is taking
on water, but should we be worried?  NOOO!  Feel free, sez Block, to build the
organization of your dreams in your own stateroom while the captain & his
retinue flail away on the bridge...  just enjoy the fishy scenery as the ship
heads down."  

Totally ridiculous, imho.  

In times like these, it's incumbent on ALL of us not simply to "tend our own
gardens" as Voltaire's CANDIDE advised in his copout of an ending, but to speak
out maturely and constructively, to help row or bail, and to advise on course
changes.

I hope this has been a constructive criticism; it was meant that way.

... and YES, :-) in case you're wondering, I *did* send this feedback to
DELTA...

Dan

PS -- I'm also aware of the double-meaning of the word "bail" in the
antepenultimate paragraph... :-)

    From what I have heard, we are talking about less than a dozen people
    that run Delta.  Also, in my experiences with Delta the delays in idea
    implementation have been not with Delta, but with the folks that
    actually get an idea.  As others have pointed out, Delta is the
    messenger.  They don't enforce ideas or push them.  They help in making
    communication work at Digital.  In my mind, they have a similar role as
    E-mail and notes in the respect.  They have an added advantage of
    having someone that knows the coporation taking on the responsibility
    and making sure that an idea makes it to someone that is in power to
    do something about it.  Even though few of my ideas have been
    implemented, some have and all ideas have made it to the right people
    -- people I often had no way of otherwise reaching.  To this end, Delta
    has been successful and added value to the company, in my opinion.
    
    As for the RSS thing, from what I have heard Delta was swamped with
    folks that were concerned.  They made the issue a priority and pursued
    it with emphasis on making sure that communication happened with the
    right people.  I'm convinced that Delta, e-mail and notes all
    contributed to the reversal of what appears to many to be a bad
    decision.  I have doubts as to whether e-mail and notes alone would
    have been sufficient or that the responses easily made to Delta and
    forwarded to the right people would have necessarily made it to the
    right people in timely fashion without help from Delta.
    
    My impression is that Delta is accomplishing its mission in an
    efficient manner.  Cut it and you reduce the ability of grunts to
    affect change at Digital (i.e. point gun at foot, shoot off toe,
    smile).
    
    Steve

                     <<< Note 2262.19 by GRANPA::JNOSTIN >>>
                             -< DELTA is Overhead >-

    Ref base note
    
>    I believe that DELTA is a Crock.  I don't know how many people
>    (overhead) it takes to administer DELTA.  But I'd like to know.

Ths is a difficult question to answer without explaining all of the things 
that DELTA does.  The IDEAS portion of the work is handled by the equivalent 
of 2-3 people (we work as a high performanace work team and all of us
do some idea processing).      

>    The concept of DELTA and a suggestion system is a good one.  But I
>    really question the Return on Investment (ROI) from what it may cost to
>    run it versus results.  

The ROI is only one measure of the effectiveness of the program and by any
means of counting, the ROI more than pays for the program.  Another
means of testing the effectiveness is repeat usage and satisfaction.
All of these metrics are high - our repeat usage rate is 25% and satisfaction 
with the program is at 90% based on our closure process with authors

>    I really don't see many new suggestions
>    lately.  I further question if the right senior managers are ofter
>    informed of a suggestion or concern.
    
Though you may not "see" many new ideas, we run a fairly steady 200 per month
(188 for the month of November). We do our best to send ideas to the right
place and we request that anyone receiving an idea let us know if we make a
mistake.  We also send reports to each of our 150 responders on a monthly basis
to make sure that our records and their records are up to date. 

As I have done many times in the past, I invite anyone who wishes to see
our operation and learn more about it to call or visit us in OGO. 
Unlike many programs in Digital - this one belongs to all of us.  We
firmly believe in the concept of continuous improvement - let us know what's
not working and we will do our best to change it.

    <<< Note 2262.23 by LABRYS::CONNELLY "Out of the fog, into the smog" >>>


>DELTA seems sorta like a management hot-line...i'd like them to be more than
>a call-routing group, but that seems to be basically what they're chartered
>to be.

Our charter is what this company will allow us to do.  We would much prefer
not being in the "call routing" business, but the maturation process in the
company regarding the involvement of its employees is at this stage now.
The model that you see is not the vision that this organization has.

>Ideally they should do more than dispatch the suggestion to someone else and
>then assume that everything is OK unless i complain.  

The model for PROPOSE and DO says that you need to take some responsiblity
for your ideas, even if all you do is track its status with our help.
DELTA has never advertised itself as a suggestion box.  We always tell
authors that the most important things they can change are things that
they have control over and that are important to them as customers or
suppliers in a process. 

>It would be nice if
>every suggestion was like a hot-line call that couldn't be closed and gotten
>off their books until the person making the suggestion indicated that they
>were happy with the final disposition.  But even most of our internal help
>desk/hot-line groups don't seem to be competent to do that with their calls.
>The onus is always on the person making the suggestion/call (or so it seems).

>								paul


Every author who receives a response is called or surveyed by mail.  If the
response is not satisfactory or the process didn't work for them, we try
to continue to work with them until a successful resolution is reached.
Sometimes that is impossible.  For anything which has not received a response,
we mail or call our evaulators monthly to remind them to respond.

    I'd like to lend some support to DELTA as well.
    
    I've submitted a number of ideas (only got 1 certificant!) over the
    years.
    
    Wasn't happy with some of the answers, but it wasn't DELTA that
    produced the answers, they were relaying them.
    
    DELTA surveys those who submit and makes a sincere effort to (1) get
    closure to ideas and (2) ascertain how effective they are.  Just how
    many other groups in Digital try to ascertain their effectiveness?  Not
    enough.
    
    I think this discussion is rather making a mountain out of a molehill
    (I can imagine nasser's response :-) ) -- DELTA provides employees a
    forum for attempting to submit and escalate ideas, even anonymously
    when necessary (I know, I've used it).  Some of the ideas are
    implemented to documented cost savings for Digital.  So why cut off a
    working communication channel?
    
    Steve

re: .27
>Our charter is what this company will allow us to do.  We would much prefer
>not being in the "call routing" business, but the maturation process in the
>company regarding the involvement of its employees is at this stage now.
>The model that you see is not the vision that this organization has.

You're right, Maxine, my quarrel is with what management has chartered DELTA
to be, not with how well DELTA performs what they are chartered to do!
									- paul

    
    I have sent in a suggestion regarding stock purchase plan on 08/23/91.
    
    I got the confirmation on 08/28/91 that it was received.
    
    On April 15, 1992, I got another acknowledgement.
    
    Then NOTHING.  Absolutely NOTHING.
    
    DELTA IDEAS NO. DA5229.
    
    What a waste!!!!
    

    re. .30
    
    >Then NOTHING.  Absolutely NOTHING.
    
    
    Uhhhh... Why did YOU do nothing?
    
    If 'throwing it over the wall' is all you did, why do you expect anyone
    else to pick it up and work?
    
    Your acknowledgement should have had contact name. Did you contact
    them?
    
    Did you contact DELTA and tell them you've had no response?
    
    If the only action you take is to post the inaction in this notesfile,
    I agree, "What a waste!!!!"
    
                        

    re.31
    
    
    	Seems to me the author of .30 did what he was
    	supposed to do, and that DELTA is the point
    	of loss, not the author.
    
    	I agree, DELTA is a waste.
    
    
    
    	me
    

    re: .32
    
    How is DELTA the "point of loss" if the reason that he's not
    hearing back is because someone who got the idea (which is 
    probably why DELTA sent confirmation) is still sitting on it?
    It is NOT DELTA's responsibility to *implement* or to badger
    anyone into using an idea, from what I have experienced.
    I agree with .31 that some follow up is appropriate if one cares
    enough about an idea.  DELTA probably provided the originator
    with all that was needed to do this followup.
    
    From my point of view, it's the grunts that are going to have
    to generate the good ideas that are going to pull this company
    up, not the managers.  We need every avenue we can get to make
    these ideas reality, but we also have to take responsibility
    for implementation.  DELTA is a way that the company has made
    it easier for us to do this, but it is not wise nor prudent
    for us to assume that our responsibilities end once we come up
    with ideas.  5% inspiration - 95% perspiration (with DELTA,
    notes and e-mail helping with SOME of the burden)
    
    Steve

    
    How much of my time should I devote to what may turn out to be a
    quixotic campaign to see my idea come to fruition?  Will DELTA help
    save my bacon when my boss asks me about why I spend so much time 
    on a project that has little to do with his "turf".
    
    The "Propose And Do" methodology is useless unless the suggestion is
    within the sphere of influence of the organization I belong to. If I am
    already part of that organization, I don't need DELTA.
    
    Where does that leave DELTA?  Seems to me it is a convenient way for
    management to glean ideas from subordinates and use them to their own
    benefit.  I'm not saying Digital does not benefit, but DELTA is BOTH a
    way to implement and to neglect what Tom Peters calls MBWA (Management
    By Wandering Around).  One could say that if management was doing their
    job, we would not need DELTA. 
    
    Seems DELTA is the result of that old model of thinking that says 
    if there is a problem, form a committee or department to deal with it.
    
    -Ed
    
    

I am glad RSS was reinstated. Getting rid of technical competance is 
a terrible idea, getting rid of it when its close to the customer or
close to those who are is foolish. Customer support is the last place
to gut and its being gutted now and has been for a while.

To answer the question, yes its a crock. But saying the truth is
tricky business these days. I submitted some suggestions having to do with
the terrible state of professional desktops in this company and the counter
-productive stuff that the corp org was doing, suggested a simple algoritm 
to cut through it. Summarily ignored as was another having to do with
logistics. Well, ignored isn't the right word. I did get back the 
usual doublespeak "thank you for sharing that with us, blah, blah thats the
way it is". I shrugged, but my management supportted me, and encouraged
me to invest some MORE time, complaining about the response, do I did
and that was ignored too, though there was a follow up call to officially
record how I felt about it.That all began, seems like about 2 years ago,
then a few months ago, I got another phone call, checking to see whether
I was happy with the response yet. Well, I said, there has been no 
substantial change in conditions, so no I am not happy with the response, 
after which there was a tad more pressure to "get involved: again which
I politely declined.

These are not bad people, they just don't have a clue is all. They are
put onto chasing a problem whose content they know absolutely nothing about
, and the task is defined as "giving it to the responsible group or
individual". 9/10 times this is the same group or individual CAUSING
the mess and they can be expected to give expert reasons why the status
quo should remain so.

A burearocracy to fix one seems like a fundamentally flawed notion.
Better to just collect good ideas, test them some, if it looks good,
"make it so". Just my opinion of course, I have not checked the notes
conference for it maybe that would be helpful...

We just got another one of the smith cost memos today, no more office 
supplies, no more shrink wrap PC SW, like paper clips and $39 productivity
tools is the problem. They do this at Raytheon too, managers have to sign so 
you can use the copy machine, no pencils..the stockholders love 'em. 
Ah to be back in the software development lab, scoping out the KL10
backplane, now THAT was fun...time for bed....

    re: .34
    
    How much time you should spend on a good idea all depends on how good
    your idea is, how much you believe in it, how much work is needed to
    get it realized and so forth.  DELTA is one resource for making a good
    idea pay off for Digital.  If you, or anyone, wants to see what it
    *really* takes to make a good idea fly, try starting and running your
    own business.  It's a lot of work, not the least of which involves
    getting your idea into the heads of the right people.  Customers on the
    outside pay good money to organizations that do the equivalent of what 
    DELTA does.  I can furnish examples if desired.
    
    "Propose and Do" is reality.  If you don't feel confident enough about
    your idea to put up more than just a little effort, who else will?  In
    the real world, there are lots of folks with great ideas, but very few
    who turn them into anything useful.  Those who are successful tend to
    use all the sources they can, including networking, which is one value
    that DELTA adds and promotes.
    
    If DELTA is a "crock," I feel it is only because of what people have
    put into it.  My experiences with the DELTA staff with my ideas lead me
    to believe they are busy, caring and do their best to add value to what
    we grunts are willing to fill the crock with.
    
    RE: .35
    
    I can see where managment may regard DELTA as a crutch or a cover. 
    That's a separate issue, as far as I am concerned.  Competent
    management, as Tom Peters illustrated in many examples, is interested
    in getting feedback from the grunts in whatever way possible.  DELTA is
    only one way to get this feedback.  It is not the only way, but it
    fills a niche that is not filled by notes or e-mail and hence adds
    value.  
    
    DELTA is a tool and a resource that can be used well or badly.  They
    *did* have problems when they first started, but from what I can tell
    they fixed them.  Ideas I have run through have been handled quickly
    by DELTA and I've gotten timely notification of progress.  The RSS
    situation demonstrated that DELTA is quite capable of coordinating
    communication in a timely and efficient fashion.  
    
    If any noters have valid concerns, why not respond directly to the
    DELTA folks rather than just gripe in notes?  They have invited
    feedback and are open to suggestions.  And, they have a proven track
    record of getting the right ideas to the right people -- enough so that
    outside customers are willing to pay real money for it.
    
    Steve

    I personally think it is a crock.  I put in at least four suggestions
    when DELTA was first implemented.  It got the major runaround.  I
    finally got a certificate from them (four years later) and the
    certificate wasn't signed.  My manager's manager received all this
    stuff from them -- they kep passing the buck back to our organization. 
    Finally, my original suggestion, getting rid of traveletter and tighter
    expense controls, is being implemented four years later .. and billions
    of dollars wasted through employee receivables abuse.  My last day here
    is Friday.  Wow.  It took 4 years to see my suggestion taken seriously,
    I get no credit and I'm TFSO'd to boot!
    
    

      <<< Note 2262.34 by FORTSC::CHABAN "Pray for Peter Pumpkinhead!" >>>
                   -< Good Intentions, Poor Implementation >-

    
>    The "Propose And Do" methodology is useless unless the suggestion is
>    within the sphere of influence of the organization I belong to. If I am
>    already part of that organization, I don't need DELTA.

I agree with you a hundred percent!  Would that nobody needed DELTA!!
We are convinced that we only see a small pat of what is termed Employee
Involvement because many organizations provide a method for folks to
work within their "sphere of influence".  Our original vision said that
the IDEAS CENTRAL portion of DELTA should only be used for ideas OUTSIDE
of one's sphere of influence and that should be a minority.
    
>    benefit.  I'm not saying Digital does not benefit, but DELTA is BOTH a
>    way to implement and to neglect what Tom Peters calls MBWA (Management
>    By Wandering Around).  One could say that if management was doing their
>    job, we would not need DELTA. 

Again, you are absolutely right.  Many of us spend a good portion of our
time trying to convince management to try MBWA or other variations.  We
are somewhat successful.  But this company isn't at that point yet where
they view Employee Involvement as a part of the work, not a part from the work 
or extra work.  DELTA spends a lot of its energy crusading for just this
kind of vision.
    
>    Seems DELTA is the result of that old model of thinking that says 
>    if there is a problem, form a committee or department to deal with it.
    
>    -Ed
    
It may be the result of old thinking but we are doing things that no other 
group in this company has a prayer of accomplishing.  We are beholden to
no organization and have been left alone by management to push forward.

If our work was not seen as positive by managment, we wouldn't be here.

Let's try another tack here.  Instead of dealing with individual com-
plaints about the ideas process (which is only part of what we do) how 
about we take the discussion up one step higher and talk about a vision 
for what Employee Involvment at Digital ought to look like.  We use terms 
in DELTA like Voice of the Employee to parallel the Voice of the Customer 
work that is being done.  What should the Voice of the Employee look like?  
How will we know when Digital has gotten to a point where a "Program"
for Employee Involvement isn't needed.  After all we didn't have one
for 30 or so years and everyone looks back on the "good old days".

Let me start with the vision that we have developed for Employee Involvement
(posted in VTX DELTA along with a lot of other information)

	"All employees take responsibility for the success of the 
	corporation, work up to their potential, and are valued
	accordingly"

Our mission -

	"To rekindle Digital's entrepreneurial spirit, encourage all
	employees to help improve the corporation, and provide the
	support, leadership and training required to advance Digital's
	quality movement"

    "At a higher level", we seem to have some people in positions of
    authority who hug trees, follow the NIH theory of management, and are
    afraid to rock boats or cross turf lines.  Many of the ideas generated
    and rejected suggest rocking boats and knocking down stovepipes.  Is it
    any wonder that they are ignored?  We would all like to see Superman
    (or Superwoman) come in and right all the wrongs.  But of course, our
    headquarters are in Maynard, not Metropolis.
    
    I'm sorry to say that I've given up on Digital.  It may arise from the
    ashes like the Phoenix, but it needs more than the new coat of paint
    that some of the management seems to think will cure its ills.  
    
    DELTA is not a crock, but the hope for bringing Digital back to
    prosperity may be.
    
    Dick

    Many of the comments in this note appear to be from people
    who don't know much about Delta.  Would someone please post
    the pointer to the Delta notesfile so interested parties
    can educate themselves before they continue this assault on
    Delta.                                                

    CAPNET::DELTA_IDEAS
    
    Hit KP7 to add.
    
    Steve

                    <<< Note 2262.41 by TENAYA::ANDERSON >>>
                       -< pointer to notes file, please >-

>    Many of the comments in this note appear to be from people
>    who don't know much about Delta.  Would someone please post
>    the pointer to the Delta notesfile so interested parties
>    can educate themselves before they continue this assault on
>    Delta.                                                

I would suggest anyone who wants to learn more take a look at VTX DELTA.
Call 276-8226 anytime and I will be more than happy to talk to anyone.
Visit our office at Stow, MA if you are in the area.  The more you know,
the more informed your judgement can be.  We know we can't please everybody,
but its tough to be castigated by folks who know nothing about what we 
are trying to accomplish on their behalf.

    
    Entrepreneurial thinking involves weighing risk with reward.  
    
    In the early days of Digital, it was likely a person would be rewarded
    richly for a good idea.  Today, a changing computer marketplace and 
    Corporate bureaucracy make rewards harder to glean.
    
    Most good ideas are not passed through DELTA, they are parlayed into 
    power and rewards by those with the politial savvy to take advantage
    of opportunities.  
    
    As I see it, DELTA has three options:
    
    Option 1)  Reduce risk.  Take more responsibility for making changes 
               happen.  This is the only logical recourse if the rewards
               are "Thank-You" certificates.
    
    Option 2)  Increase reward.  A small one time payment is not enough. 
               Those with good ideas should be given promotions and more 
               responsibility.  
    
    Option 3)  Increase employee "Political Savvy" and "Make Connections"
               Perhaps this is closest to DELTA's current charter.
               Unfortunately, it does not work.  We are all different.
               Some of us, especially engineers, are not "people" oriented. 
               We lack to skills to "Do" in a large organization like DEC.
               Life is a lot easier in a starup (hell, just ask KO!)
     
    		Running an idea through DELTA is risky.  If it percieved
                as useless, it is ignored.  If it is too good (like
                eliminating traveletter) it gets stolen.
    
               It seems to me that DELTA is like those "companies"
               that offer to get you a patent for your invention while in
               reality, they simply steal the invention.  Many
               entrepreneurs have been cheated in this way.
    
    My opinion is that we don't need a department to gather ideas.  We need
    a clear commitment to reward entrepreneurial behavior.   
    
    -Ed
    

    
    BTW, there are *PLENTY* of anti-DELTA notes in this strings from folks 
    with first hand experience so you cannot attribute negative feedback to
    ignorance.  In fact, I find that presumption highly offensive!
    
    -Ed_who_thinks_Digital_does_not_value_the_differences_of_rabble_rousers!
    
    ;-)

    Just because someone has interacted with an organization more
    than once doesn't mean that they understand whether or not
    that organization is adding value.  There are people in this
    notesfile saying the Delta team should lose their jobs.
    I would not make such a public statement with obvious potential
    to cost people their jobs without being *highly* informed
    about the organization.
    
    Before I attack anyone about anything, I stop to consider
    whether or not could be another perspective on the issue or
    something besides my own point-of-view.  There's more to life
    than the world two inches in front of our own noses.  This
    issue is a chronic problem in this notesfile.
    
    Elaine

    
    Re: .46 
    
    One can also take the view that a large bureaucratic and achademic
    attitude that ignores common sense and prima face evidence is the
    source of Digital's ills.
    
    -Ed
    

      <<< Note 2262.45 by FORTSC::CHABAN "Pray for Peter Pumpkinhead!" >>>

    
>    BTW, there are *PLENTY* of anti-DELTA notes in this strings from folks 
>    with first hand experience so you cannot attribute negative feedback to
>    ignorance.  In fact, I find that presumption highly offensive!
    
>    -Ed_who_thinks_Digital_does_not_value_the_differences_of_rabble_rousers!
    
>    ;-)

Actually I have counted 14 out of 47 responses as negative with 5 of them
from you!  That's a total of 9 negative responders.  I don't call that "plenty"
in anybody's book.  And there were about the same number of supporters.

:*)

      <<< Note 2262.44 by FORTSC::CHABAN "Pray for Peter Pumpkinhead!" >>>
    
>    Option 1)  Reduce risk.  Take more responsibility for making changes 
>               happen.  This is the only logical recourse if the rewards
>               are "Thank-You" certificates.

This is something that we are doing more of over time.  The DELTA of three
years ago is not the DELTA of today.  Every organization matures and we
have done our share as well.  We are always improving, adding new services,
and trying very hard to do a better job.
    
>    Option 2)  Increase reward.  A small one time payment is not enough. 
>               Those with good ideas should be given promotions and more 
>               responsibility.  

I agree - this is an environmental issue that needs to be worked within
each organization.  I really think that I see some changes being made,
but again it needs to evolve.  No cultural change occurs overnight.
    
>    Option 3)  Increase employee "Political Savvy" and "Make Connections"
>               Perhaps this is closest to DELTA's current charter.
>               Unfortunately, it does not work.  We are all different.
>               Some of us, especially engineers, are not "people" oriented. 
>               We lack to skills to "Do" in a large organization like DEC.
>               Life is a lot easier in a starup (hell, just ask KO!)

OK I can accept your arguement.
     
>    		Running an idea through DELTA is risky.  If it percieved
>                as useless, it is ignored.  If it is too good (like
>                eliminating traveletter) it gets stolen.

Why do you perceive this as a risk?  What is being stolen?  The reason
we don't give out monetary rewards is that we don't perceive ideas to be
personal property.  If your idea starts someone thinking in the right direction
for the benefit of the company then isn't that sufficient?  
    
>               It seems to me that DELTA is like those "companies"
>               that offer to get you a patent for your invention while in
>               reality, they simply steal the invention.  Many
>               entrepreneurs have been cheated in this way.
 
We are finding in the majority of cases that ideas being sent in are 
already under consideration by the evaluating organization.  If the idea 
gets "implemented" a year later what stealing has occurred?
   
>    My opinion is that we don't need a department to gather ideas.  We need
>    a clear commitment to reward entrepreneurial behavior.   
    
>    -Ed
    
I'm going to try this one more time.  Only one piece of DELTA's work is 
gathering ideas - the rest of our work includes trying our darnedest on
YOUR behalf to get the committment you are looking for from management.
We have made a lot of converts in the last three years.  Please take the
time to talk to us about the totality of our work before condemning us for
one piece of it!!  

There is no-one else in this company that cares about employee involvement 
like we do.  We live it and breathe it 24 hours a day.  We talk to
outside companies and try to use what they have learned as lessons for
our management.  If we could change this company tomorrow so the work
we are doing wasn't needed, we would all gladly find other things to do or
even leave the company.  Every one of us in the DELTA group has put our
badges on the line to continue this work for YOU.  

Personally, I have been with this company 20 years and I yearn for the
day that I don't have to do this anymore.  But this isn't the "old"
Digital.  Employees have to fight to be heard.  We are all part of that
fight.  If I can help some people be heard then I think I'm being of some
use.  It's why I come to work each day.

    
>>    Option 3)  Increase employee "Political Savvy" and "Make Connections"
>>               Perhaps this is closest to DELTA's current charter.
>>               Unfortunately, it does not work.  We are all different.
>>               Some of us, especially engineers, are not "people" oriented. 
>>               We lack to skills to "Do" in a large organization like DEC.
>>               Life is a lot easier in a starup (hell, just ask KO!)

>OK I can accept your arguement.
    
    So?  What are you going to do about it?  How are you going to make sure
    my suggestions are not sent to people who would shoot it down for
    political reasons?  How are you going to make a 50 some-odd year old
    manager listen to a 20 or 30 some-odd year old who is likely to have an
    idea that is a good idea for Digital but threatens that manager's job
    security?  
     
>>    		Running an idea through DELTA is risky.  If it percieved
>>                as useless, it is ignored.  If it is too good (like
>>                eliminating traveletter) it gets stolen.

>Why do you perceive this as a risk?  What is being stolen?  The reason
>we don't give out monetary rewards is that we don't perceive ideas to be
>personal property. 
    
    Perhaps that is the problem.  Your ideas are not your own.  Shrewd 
    entrepreneurs take their ideas and leave companies with attitudes like
    this.  Maybe this is why KO never worked for IBM?
    
    >If your idea starts someone thinking in the right direction
    >for the benefit of the company then isn't that sufficient?
    
    Nope. Socialism is dead.  People who have their mortgages paid may have
    this kind of loyalty.  Most of us are further down in Maslow's
    heirarchy.   
    
>>               It seems to me that DELTA is like those "companies"
>>               that offer to get you a patent for your invention while in
>>               reality, they simply steal the invention.  Many
>>               entrepreneurs have been cheated in this way.
 
>We are finding in the majority of cases that ideas being sent in are 
>already under consideration by the evaluating organization.  If the idea 
>gets "implemented" a year later what stealing has occurred?
    
    If the employee was never notified that his idea was already being
    considered, he was robbed of the opportunity to "lobby" for
    implementation.  Being TFSO'd as his suggestion is implemented
    steals his dignity.
    
    BTW, if the majority of ideas submitted are already being considered, 
    seems the idea submission function in DELTA should be eliminated.
    
    -Ed
    
    
     
    

    re: .50  (CHABAN)
    
>    What are you going to do about it?  How are you going to make sure my
>    suggestions are not sent to people who would shoot it down for
>    political reasons?  How are you going to make a 50 some-odd year old
>    manager listen to a 20 or 30 some-odd year old who is likely to have an
>    idea that is a good idea for Digital but threatens that manager's job
>    security?  
    
    It's already been stated that they're not going to do anything about
    it.  They're not SUPPOSED to do anything about it.
    
    And therein lies the problem with DELTA.
    
    It's just a formalization of the old "He who proposes, disposes" crock. 
    If you have an idea, you have to make it happen.  
    
    It doesn't matter if it's the greatest thing since sliced bread and
    it's out of your area of control and/or expertise, if the company
    doesn't implement it and someone later associates you with it, you can
    even get whacked because you didn't fight hard enough or some such
    thing.
    
    In a real company, there would be a manager-manager conversation like,
    "Bill, you failed when you didn't correct that horrible mistake when it
    was first pointed out to you by your people."  Not here.  IC's get
    blamed for not working hard enough to overcome their boss' obstinance and
    stupidity.
    
    Not only do you have to do your job, you have to do everyone else's. 
    Can it possibly make sense for a great idea to go unconsidered once
    it's stated?  Isn't coming up with something new the hard part? 
    Shouldn't that be enough to ask of someone?
    
    So when something like DELTA was established, I immediately assumed that
    it was going to actually help get things done.  Reading here about folks
    who have sent in multiple ideas confirms that I'm not alone.  The big
    surprise was that the help was always intended to be so slight.
    
    My cut on it right now is that if DELTA thinks that taking a great
    money making or cost saving idea and "just throwing it over the wall"
    to someone responsible who could use it is a failure on the suggestor's
    part, give it up because the program doesn't help enough to justify the
    fanfare around it.
    
    -joe tomkowitz

    
    How many people work in DELTA?  
    
    I've submitted 3 ideas, a few years later I got my certificates and
    filed them appropriately.  It took weeks to months to get a response
    from DELTA and none of the ideas were put into effect (I realise this
    is not the fault of DELTA).  One of the ideas (new admin systems) would
    have increased customer satisfaction by now and made Digital easier to
    do business with.  It was 2 or 3 years ago that I suggested this, they
    are finally looking at the admin systems.
    
    Mike

         <<< Note 2262.52 by GRANMA::MWANNEMACHER "It's Snowing!!!" >>>

    
>    How many people work in DELTA?  
>    
>    I've submitted 3 ideas, a few years later I got my certificates and
>    filed them appropriately.  It took weeks to months to get a response
>    from DELTA and none of the ideas were put into effect (I realise this
>    is not the fault of DELTA).  One of the ideas (new admin systems) would
>    have increased customer satisfaction by now and made Digital easier to
>    do business with.  It was 2 or 3 years ago that I suggested this, they
>    are finally looking at the admin systems.
>    
>    Mike

As I said in a previous note, we have 2-3 people working ideas full time.
Your ideas show 1 answered in 18 days, 1 is 20 days, and 1 in 6 months.
I show no record of an idea on a new admin system, I see 2 for personnel
issues and 1 for advertising. The earliest idea I see for you was less
than 2 years ago.

      <<< Note 2262.50 by FORTSC::CHABAN "Pray for Peter Pumpkinhead!" >>>


    
>    So?  What are you going to do about it?  How are you going to make sure
>    my suggestions are not sent to people who would shoot it down for
>    political reasons?  How are you going to make a 50 some-odd year old
>    manager listen to a 20 or 30 some-odd year old who is likely to have an
>    idea that is a good idea for Digital but threatens that manager's job
>    security?  
 
How are we going to work together to make it happen?  We work as best we can
with any author in this situation to escalate ideas so this doesn't occur.
We don't abandon good ideas or human beings who ask for our help. In at
least a half dozen cases we have saved the jobs of folks who have gotten
in trouble with their own management because of sending in ideas

Why can't we focus on the 600 ideas that have been implemented that
might not have been without this channel?  Why can't we focus on the
fact that 90% of the authors who recieve responses are satisfied that
the process has worked for them?  Why can't we focus on that fact that
ideas that are sent for DELTA to implement about its own process are
done so 80-90% of the time?
    
Why don't you try the process so you can speak from first hand experience?
You might find that it works quite well for you.    
    
     
    

    
    I think .51 hit the nail fairly squarely (as Joe so often does).
    
    DELTA is a good idea stuck in an awkward middle ground. It does a good
    reasonable of getting ideas to the right people (or, at least, those who
    should be the right people), but it also seems to remove a sense of
    ownership from the originator, and does nothing to assume ownership and
    champion the idea.
    
    You can argue that tilting at windmills is not in the DELTA charter,
    and that's OK, but somehow the expectation gets set that someone is
    going to run with the idea, or at least critique it in a credible
    manner, and when that doesn't happen, the first instinct of the
    originator is to confront the organization to which the ideas was
    handed -- DELTA. I think that's happening in this stream.
    
    DELTA could add more value in my eyes if it watched for irrational
    reactions to ideas, and pushed back on behalf of the originator.
    Conversely, it could simply figure out where an idea should go, inform
    the originator (eg, provide background info on the target organization,
    a contact name, org chart, etc), and then explicitly step back and
    watch what happens. Perhaps it could tailor its response to the needs
    of the originator ("We think your idea has merit; would you like us to
    help you champion it, or should we just provide pointers?") What is does
    today (regardless of the hard work, risk-taking and good intentions of
    its members) seems to be particularly uninspiring.
    

re .54:

>Why can't we focus on the 600 ideas that have been implemented that
>might not have been without this channel?  Why can't we focus on the
>fact that 90% of the authors who receive responses are satisfied that
>the process has worked for them?  Why can't we focus on that fact that
>ideas that are sent for DELTA to implement about its own process are
>done so 80-90% of the time?

	Because organizations that focus on their success get complacent
	and die (ref US auto industry, Digital Equipment Corp, etc).
	You have to focus on your failures and turn *them* around if you
	want to grow and prosper.

							Tom_K

           <<< Note 2262.55 by WLDBIL::KILGORE "Bill -- 227-4319" >>>

    
>    I think .51 hit the nail fairly squarely (as Joe so often does).
    
>    DELTA is a good idea stuck in an awkward middle ground. It does a good
>    reasonable of getting ideas to the right people (or, at least, those who
>    should be the right people), but it also seems to remove a sense of
>    ownership from the originator, and does nothing to assume ownership and
>    champion the idea.
>    
>    You can argue that tilting at windmills is not in the DELTA charter,
>    and that's OK, but somehow the expectation gets set that someone is
>    going to run with the idea, or at least critique it in a credible
>    manner, and when that doesn't happen, the first instinct of the
>    originator is to confront the organization to which the ideas was
>    handed -- DELTA. I think that's happening in this stream.
>    
>    DELTA could add more value in my eyes if it watched for irrational
>    reactions to ideas, and pushed back on behalf of the originator.
>    Conversely, it could simply figure out where an idea should go, inform
>    the originator (eg, provide background info on the target organization,
>    a contact name, org chart, etc), and then explicitly step back and
>    watch what happens. Perhaps it could tailor its response to the needs
>    of the originator ("We think your idea has merit; would you like us to
>    help you champion it, or should we just provide pointers?") What is does
>    today (regardless of the hard work, risk-taking and good intentions of
>    its members) seems to be particularly uninspiring.
    
We have an acknoweldgement memo that we send to each author with explicit
statements of what role we will play:

	"DELTA is here to help you get your idea to the right organization,
	to follow up with responders to make sure you get a response, and
	to follow up with you once a response is received.  We can act as
	your advocate at yor request.  We facilitate the process but also
	count on your initiative for getting your good ideas implemented."

We also flag ideas in several categories that we do track more carefully,
those that are time dependent, those that are intended directly for senior
management, and those that company-wide implications.  This enhancement
has occurred within the last few months.
	

       <<< Note 2262.56 by TOMK::KRUPINSKI "A dark morning in America" >>>

re .54:

>>Why can't we focus on the 600 ideas that have been implemented that
>>might not have been without this channel?  Why can't we focus on the
>>fact that 90% of the authors who receive responses are satisfied that
>>the process has worked for them?  Why can't we focus on that fact that
>>ideas that are sent for DELTA to implement about its own process are
>>done so 80-90% of the time?
>
>	Because organizations that focus on their success get complacent
>	and die (ref US auto industry, Digital Equipment Corp, etc).
>	You have to focus on your failures and turn *them* around if you
>	want to grow and prosper.
>
>

Tom - you have misconstrued my intent.  I simply was trying to say that there
have been successes with this program and that throwing the baby out with
the bath water is not the right approach.  We are strong advocates of
continual improvement.  The program today and the program of 3 years ago
are very different.  We take all criticism to heart.  We discussed this
string in our staff meeting this morning, assigned everyone in the group to
read it, and change will come out of the observations of everyone here.

We understand our shortcomings very well, nothing that has been said here is
news to us, if it were I would be worried that we haven't heard the messages
we've been getting.  But understanding the issues and fixing them are two 
different things.  Cultural change takes time, as agents of cultural change
this work takes time to change.  But we don't stop trying and we will never
stop listening to you - our customers.

    Um ...  what *exactly* is the argument here?  If folks don't want
    DELTA, what is proposed instead?  Sure, you can "submit" an idea to
    disband DELTA and maybe it will happen.  A democracy can vote for
    dictatorship, too.  Or, you can submit ideas that can lead to
    improvement of DELTA.  And, they have practically screamed that they
    listen and that they have taken action on such suggestions.  Don't 
    burn the suggestion box before you build a better one.
    
    You'll get no argument from me on focusing on the problems of the
    company.  Ideas I have submitted share such focus.  But, what
    specifically does anyone have to gripe about concerning DELTA?  That
    they don't listen.  Wrong.  That they take credit for the ideas of
    others?  Bzzzt!  Try again ...  That they drop the ball whenever an
    idea is submitted to them?  Eh, well, thank you for coming ... next!
    
    If you don't like how an idea is accepted by the people DELTA routes it
    to, get involved.  I have.  Who they share your ideas with is not kept 
    secret from you.  
    
    So, you don't like it if a "golden" idea goes to them and becomes
    Digital property?  Well, welcome to the corporate world!  We're talking 
    about intellectual property here, folks.  Digital pays many of us to 
    generate it.  Digital lives and dies for it.  Digital has, can and will 
    take steps to protect its rights to the ideas we generate.  You don't like 
    it?  Start your own company (and see what happens if your intellectual 
    rights aren't protected).  But, the issue of whether or not Digital has 
    any rights to ideas its employees generate has already been hashed out in 
    the courts quite a bit.
    
    I'm reminded of the several examples Tom Peters and others have cited
    concerning incremental improvement.  Japanese auto makers dominated the
    auto industry using this technique.  How did they do it?  They
    encouraged the grunts to come forward with their ideas and they got
    those ideas to people that could make a difference.  This method is
    proving successful in many industries.  Do the critics seriously
    suggest that the 100K employees at Digital will be more competitive if we 
    don't have at least a dozen people specialize in helping this process
    be successful?
    
    I agree that there should be more recognition involved with submitting 
    ideas.  A little certificate, phone calls, mail messages, though trite to 
    some, are at least a beginning.  Cash would be nice, and I would like to 
    see something where a good idea that makes the company a lot of money could 
    get some kind of tasteful cash reward in return.  I'm all in favor of that.
    If the lack of cash incentive is a reason for not liking DELTA, then lets 
    deal with that rather than try to scrap DELTA.  Scrap DELTA and your great 
    ideas might not even get a trite certificate ...
    
    Steve

        Maxine,

        I too  submitted a suggestion to DELTA a loooong time ago.  I got
        the acknowledgment that  it  had been received and was being sent
        to xxx to answer.    A  few  weeks later (I was surprised), I got
        "an" answer from xxx.   The  answer  was  only  for  part  of the
        suggestion.  I tried contacting xxx both by phone and by mail and
        never got a response.  Several people  replied to the note in the
        DELTA notes conference, that they thought it was  a good idea and
        should be implemented.

        I  got  2 or 3 calls from your office  asking  if  I  had  gotten
        resolution, to which I answered NO, and I told them  what  I  had
        "attempted" to do.

        I guess it has been a good year since I have  heard anything from
        anybody, and the  suggestion  is  still  not  implemented...and I
        never got a certificate.

        Now, for something good.  I look into DELTA_IDEAS weekly.  I have
        found several good ideas there  that  I  extracted and sent to my
        manager.  Some of which have been implemented in our organization
        and are saving us money.

        The way I look at it is,  if  "we" can save our group and Digital
        some money, maybe it will keep somebody from being cut.

        Now  for  another  suggestion.    Leave  the  DELTA_IDEAS   notes
        conference.    Have  everybody  send  their  ideas to this  notes
        conference.   Request Mr.  Palmer to TELL every group  that  they
        ARE  being  held  responsible  for  responding to every note that
        applies to them.  If the submitter has not received an acceptable
        response, the submitter  should send mail to the VP of Ethics (or
        some other designated person).

        So Maxine, look up my file and tell me where I went wrong.


        Just one last thing.

        Ed,

        I do not agree  that  you should get promoted just for sending in
        an  idea...no matter how good  it  is.    Part  of the problem in
        Digital is that promotions were given  too freely in the past.  I
        even know people who were FORCED to  take a promotion even though
        they didn't want it.  


        Thanks,

        ART

    
      Never used it, won't.  Not fooled.
    

                      <<< Note 2262.60 by SPECXN::BLEY >>>
                                -< -< Me Too > >-

        Now  for  another  suggestion.    Leave  the  DELTA_IDEAS   notes
        conference.    Have  everybody  send  their  ideas to this  notes
        conference.   Request Mr.  Palmer to TELL every group  that  they
        ARE  being  held  responsible  for  responding to every note that
        applies to them.  If the submitter has not received an acceptable
        response, the submitter  should send mail to the VP of Ethics (or
        some other designated person).

>        So Maxine, look up my file and tell me where I went wrong.

Art - our records show the memo you sent to the DEC Standards organization
in January.  We followed up with you in March to see if you had gotten a
response, which you hadn't.  We called the evaluator the same day and
were told that he would advise us on whether he could respond to you.
We followed up again with you in June and you answered our survey that
you were in fact satisified with the process and the response.  At that
point we figured the process was done.  If you want your idea re-opened
just send me a mail message.

As for your certificate, in order to get the signatures we mailed off
certificate packets to 150 different organizations, of those 6 have
not yet returned them - you guessed it - one of them is DEC Standards.
We continue to follow up with all six organizations.

Anyone who wants to follow up on their idea is welcome to call DTN 276-8226
or the evaluator named on your acknowledgement.  

    Hi Maxine,
    
    Thanks for the quick response.  The fact that you were able to respond
    to this note so quickly says something about the organization your 
    group has.
    
    I guess I must be getting old, I do not remember responding to a
    survey, especially saying I was satisfied with the response, the
    process maybe, but not the response (from DEC standards).
    
    Feel free to forward this to DEC standards if you want.  I have 
    cancelled my account on APPIX.  I can get what I need from someplace
    else and it doesn't cost me $500. a month, and it is faster than APPIX
    ever was.
    
    As far as re-opening my suggestion, I'll leave that up to you, if you
    think you can get results.  I am sure there are still many APPIX users
    left who could benifit.
    
    Thanks,
    
    
    ART
    

The DIGITAL conference is not the place to find out what happened to your
individual suggestion.

Bob - Co-moderator DIGITAL

Sorry -.1, but:

 Maxine,

    To whom in DEC STDs might you ever have sent anything to do with the 
    APPIX system?  APPIX is not ours.  To whom in DEC STDs did you send 
    DELTA certificates to to be signed that have yet to be returned?

    A minor DELTA recordkeeping problem?

 - Jim Boice (Standards and Methods Control; a.k.a. DEC STDs)

    RE: .65
    
    Jim,
    
    I do not remember who from your group responded.  My original 
    suggestion was sent to @ MILPND::BEST.  The person answered 
    part of my question/suggestion, but never the rest of it.
    
    Please see note 762 in the CAPNET::DELTA_IDEAS notes conference.
    
    Regards,
    
    ART
    
    

          <<< Note 2262.65 by JOKUR::BOICE "When in doubt, do it." >>>
                      -< We're Not Perfect, But We Care >-

>Sorry -.1, but:

> Maxine,

>    To whom in DEC STDs might you ever have sent anything to do with the 
>    APPIX system?  APPIX is not ours.  To whom in DEC STDs did you send 
>    DELTA certificates to to be signed that have yet to be returned?
>
>    A minor DELTA recordkeeping problem?
>
> - Jim Boice (Standards and Methods Control; a.k.a. DEC STDs)

The actual idea did not have to do with APPIX but with obsolete part numbers.
It was sent to Dick Best in January of 92 and answered by Dave Crowley
several days later.  I think APPIX was only an adjunct to the obsolete
number issue.

Thanks for caring - maybe you and Art can get together for a discussion.
:*)

    
    I have not read all the previous notes, and don't have the time to
    read them either, however Delta both worked and did not work for me.
    
    I submitted a Delta idea that some of you are probably using today.
    
    One day I was sitting at my workstation and I noticed that the terminal
    stand I was using had no place for my mouse pad.  So I went to the
    lumber store that evening and bought a suitable board and made myself
    a wider keyboard holder.
    
    All the programmers in my office thought the idea was good so I
    wrote it up and submitted the idea to delta.  I also expressed an
    interest in using trackballs with the existing terminal stands.
    
    From there my idea went two ways.
    
    1. It was submitted to the terminal stand group and promply forgotten
       by the Delta office.
    
    2. I was put in contact with the group that does keyboards for the
       trackball stuff.  This lead to a lively and interesting discussion
       with the keyboard people in which I learned that they were very
       much on top of the issue and had thought of far more than I had
       ever considered.  End of discussion as I felt I had nothing to 
       contribute to them that they had not already thought of.
    
    Meanwhile back at the Delta ranch #1 was forgotten and #2 was
    being scrupulously tracked.  I got;
    
    	1. An initial delta report.
        2. A month later a followup call with the keyboard contact.
        3. A mail message after 3 months stating that my keyboard/
           trackball idea was being considered and tracked. (pure bunk)
        4. A follow up call after 6 months, at which time I explained
           the the idea was for a keyboard stand not a keyboard.  A
           promise to follow up.
        5. A follow up call after 9 months, with a new Delta person who
           was taking over the account, at which time I explained
           the the idea was for a keyboard stand not a keyboard.  A
           promise to follow up.
        6. A followup mail message to contact the terminal stand people
           however Delta did not know anything about the status of my
           idea.
    
    
    The net result?
    
    I called the terminal guy.  He says "Yeah, we closed that one six months
    ago, check the DEC Direct catalog for order number mumble, it should
    be in there by now."  I check and sure enough there it is the new 
    Digital optional (until we run out of the old ones) extended keyboard
    holder which everyone in my office now owns.
    
    So this is cool with me cause I got to see the result of my idea from
    just one mail message.
    
    Harry
    

    Harry Arendt's reply (.68) points out something that we often ignore. 
    We who send ideas to DELTA may not be the first one to think of a
    bright idea.  Anyone who thinks that all the rest of the 100k+
    employees are asleep at the switch and really need that neat idea is
    probably wrong.  There are (or at least until recently there were) many
    groups working on many different ideas.  When the answer comes back,
    "We've already thought of that and a) have rejected it for cause or 
    b) are working heavily on it", many of us don't want to believe that
    there is anybody out there as smart as us.  Thank goodness we're wrong!
    
    So, before we talk about stealing ideas, apportioning credit, and such,
    we really ought to be a little more humble about our particular
    talents.  Some of us really are creative geniuses, I'm sure.  But most
    of us aren't.
    
    Dick

    DELTA can't solve all of our problems, no matter how much we'd
    like it to.  This reminds me of the "parent model" of government--
    it's supposed to eliminate every unpleasantness from your life.
    It just won't work.
    
    None of this means that Delta isn't adding value.  I suspect that
    the cost savings proposals implemented will easily cover the salaries
    of the team.  No need to beat up the DELTA team because they can't
    solve world hunger.
    
    What problems have you and I solved for Digital this week?  Is
    DELTA the dog we kick this month to take out our frustrations about
    our own feelings of powerlessness?