Conference 7.286::digital

    
    >Has anyone seen differently? $1100 seems outrageous. Thanks.
    
    Yeah things are different here in CA and they're different in my
    home state of NJ. ;-)
    
    -Ed
      

    I can't speak to the car plan part of it, but here in the
    People's Republic of Massachusetts, I'm paying $1800 a year to
    insure a 9-year-old station wagon with 153,000+ miles on it
    and a 10-year-old pickup truck with 90,000 miles on it.  The
    truck is probably going to be taken off the road, because we
    can't really afford to insure it anymore.  I mean, this is
    hardly his-and-hers Cadillacs.  We do have a high deductible
    ($500) but we also carry a lot of coverage ($100,000/$300,000).
    FWIW. 

I suggest you try METPAY if available in your area. I just
received a price quote from them for my car in NJ and they
were very reasonable, relatively speaking that is...

Their number is (800)541-8483...

    Here in Tennessee my plan B insurance costs about 700.00 per year.
    Thats with the 100000/300000/100000 coverage.  I think different states
    have different rates.  It also depends on the automobile. Sporty cars
    get fairly expensive to cover but family cars are not.  I drive a
    conversion van and its not very bad.  I tried METPAY but they were more
    expensive than Prudential which is where I have it now.  METPAY didnt
    give me the coverage on the conversion that they should have.  I have
    learned that you have to watch insurance companies when insuring
    conversion vans.
    
    Try a lot of different companies though because each one will have a
    different price.  I have even called different agents for the same
    company and got two different prices. (i.e. Allstate)
    
    
    
    
    Rick
    
    

    Welcome to Plan B! At least the rate has gone up from the measly $200
    per month that we used to get! In Desktop Services we've never had a
    choice. It was Plan B or Plan B. ;-) My manager at the time thought
    that the $200 was a good deal, since he got the money for leaving his
    car in the parking garage at the office or airport. On the other hand,
    I was averaging over 1,500 business miles per month, which will
    depreciate a vehicle to nothing in very short order. He couldn't
    understand why I was always complaining about Plan B.
    
    The required insurance in Houston proper was about $1,700 per year. It
    dropped to $1,200 when I moved to the suburbs in a different county.
    The 8 cents per mile didn't even cover fuel costs and the $200 per
    month didn't cover depreciation and maintenance costs by a long shot.
    Basically, it cost me a few bucks to subsidize Digital for two and a
    half years. :-( The new base rate helps, but don't send any former
    Plan A folks to me for sympathy! :-) :-) :-)
    
    Harry
    

    I also live in Michigan. If you can get Insurance for 1100.00/yr you
    better take it. I'm 35 with a perfect driving record. I've been
    shopping around for insurance for a 1993 Escort wagon. The best I've
    found was for approx. 1700.00/yr. I checked with METPAY to find out
    that they're about 200.00/yr MORE expensive.

    Keep in mind "Cheap is Cheap".  You may save a couple bucks up front by
    shopping around but when it comes time for a claim you may have
    difficlulty with the insurance company. Consumers Reports magazine had
    a article back in September 1989 wich rated homeowners insurance
    companies. You may want to see where your prospective carrier winds up
    on the list. Even though they rated homeowners insurance you could use
    it as a guide for auto insurance.

    	The main factors in car insurance costs are (not necessarily
    in this order):
    
    	1) Your Zip Code. (Traffic density, theft/vandalism stats.)
    
    	2) Repair costs (historical or projected)
    
    	3) Theft rate for the model.
    
    	4) Your accident/ driving record.
    
    	5) Deductibles elected & full or limited tort (right to sue) where
    	   applicable.
    
    Phil

>>    	The main factors in car insurance costs are (not necessarily
>>    in this order):
    
	From what I could see, you left out a couple that I'll toss into the 
ring...

	a)	the type of vehicle

	b)	the other items you have insured with the company

	I live in VA and just setup coverage on my new (92) Caravan.  It's just 
about $600 per year.  That is for a very low deductable with as good or better 
coverage than is required by the Plan B rules.  We also have our house and our 
other vehicle insured with the same company - Allstate.  When my wife's 
Explorer got hit about 2 years ago (other driver's fault), Allstate was alot 
easier to work with than the other person's insurance company.  All in all, 
I've been quite happy with all of the service I've received from them over the 
years.  As always, your milage may vary...

				Tom

Another major variable is whether or not you need to add a third party as 
insured, such as Digital for Plan B coverage.  About a 15% adder for me.

Matt

    Speaking of Allstate,
    
    I used to cary Allstate insurance until I had to make a claim.  I had
    my house and two cars with them for 7 years.  My van got broken into
    while sitting in my driveway and someone stole the stereo system and
    some CD's.  The replacement cost for the stereo was 1.local cost 498.00
    but Allstate mail orders these items and since the cost to mail order
    the stereo was only 459.00 thats all they would pay.  Even though it
    takes two weeks to get it through mail order.  My deductible is 500.00
    so that loss was not covered.  I had no problem with this.
    
    My complaint was the CD's.  If your Cd's are in your vehicle then they
    are not covered.  If they are in your house they are covered by your
    home owners.  So the moral of  the story is, don't carry your music
    media in your vehicle.  
    
    
    As far as I'm concerned, the "Good hands people" can stuff it.  BTW,
    they were one of the most expensive companies to go with but I chose
    them because I figured they would have good claims services. Bull
    ____!!!
    
    Rick
    

    I am under the impression that here in Mass., one of the reasons why
    car insurance is so expensive is that the insurance companies are
    not allowed to advertise, or is it that they aren't allowed to 
    offer competing rates/rate structures.  ??? Anyone clarify?  Please,
    this is a request for info only, NOT A RATHOLE about insurance costs,
    either here in Mass. or elsewhere.  TNX.
    
    Re .11 -- Bob Hope said it best.  About 20 years ago, a fire destroyed
    the expensive luxury home he was building in the Hollywood Hills.
    When it came time to file a claim, "The Good Hands people gave me
    the finger."
    
    
                                            

>    I am under the impression that here in Mass., one of the reasons why
>    car insurance is so expensive is that the insurance companies are
>    not allowed to advertise, or is it that they aren't allowed to 
>    offer competing rates/rate structures. 

	In MA insurance rates are set by the state. Every year the companies
	ask for a big raise and the state gives them a little one.

			Alfred

In Massachusetts, car rates are regulated. There was an 
experiment a few years ago in which the rates were deregulated;
they went up very quickly. So much for the theory that 
competition would lower rates. They were then regulated.

Mass. rates are high because of the high rate of accidents
here; if you've seen the roads we have it's not surprising.
(Note that the rate of fatal accidents is not very high;
most accidents occur on congested roads where the relative
speeds are low enough not to kill.)  Also, car theft
rates are very high. Mass. used to be the car theft capital,
this was taken over by New Jersey recently. (or at least 
for the cities; Lowell used to be highest, Newark is now.)

    RE: .10-
    
    	Digital does not require that you have them named as an additional
    insured third party, but rather that they be notified of the coverage
    you have selected and any changes on such coverage. I have a rider
    attached to my policy that's termed "Additional Interested Party-
    Employer". This did not raise my premium when I had it added per Fleet 
    policy police threat mail.
    
    	Various Ins. Co.s call it different things; some may require adding
    an additional insured party in lieu of the above. You might want to
    check with your agent to see if you've the right thing.
    
    Phil

Since the inclusion of an additional interest does not increase the insurance
companies liability under the policy, there is no reason for them to charge
you extra for listing the additional party.

The policy limit (100K/300K/25K) is the same, regardless of the number of 
additional interested parties.

This is very different from listing additional NAMED INSURED parties.

If you are paying more for listing Digital as an additional interested party, 
I would shop around.

Bob

    
    Was that to BUY one?

    Hmmmmmm, mileage really does vary :-)
    
    When Metropolitan notified me that the rate for my '91 Geo Metro was
    increasing by $30 per six month period (and this included a 10%
    discount for my excellent driving record), I decided to contact
    Allstate because I have Allstate for my house <--- I assumed they
    still offer discounts for multiple items covered by them.
    
    My Allstate agent said to let him run some numbers; when he called
    me back he said that even with the house, if he added coverage for
    the car....the car insurance would be approx $100 higher per year!
    Go figure!!  My Allstate agent said Met's rates would be hard to
    beat in this state.  I KNOW it could be worse, but $960/yr seems
    like a lot of bucks for a pregnant roller skate.....even if it is
    a 5 speed, a sports car it is NOT!!
    
    Once upon a time car insurance in metro Atlanta *was* pretty cheap;
    then No Fault became the law, ya'll know what happened to the rates
    after that.  Georgia has now repealed the NF law, but the rates haven't
    decreased :-)
    
    It was the reverse on the house though, Allstate is much cheaper than
    Met.....oh well.....
    
    K
    

re DEC rider

Perhaps my mistake with getting the insurance was that I actually took the 
requirements sheet from Fleet with me when I went to the insurance cos.  
The additional interested party listing was aimed at lein holders and the 
like.  I was told by several Insurance cos that the requirement from DEC 
would raise my price.  Could this be a Ca. only thing?  Could this be poor 
reading by 5 Insurance Cos.?  Could this be poor wording by fleet?  

matt

Could be failure to push back...  8^)  (Just kidding!)

If your "regular" coverage was not 100/300/25, then you can expect a moderate
increase in your rates.

You should not see an increase for simply listing Digital as an additional 
interest.

BTW, IMHO anyone who has less than 100/300 is underinsured these days.

Bob

    
    When I was on plan B, I had DEC as an "additional named insured" on my
    policy.  This was what fleet required (3 years ago), and it caused my
    insurance to go up significantly for two reasons:
    
    	1.  Business use of the vehicle.
    
    	2.  Additional named insured.
    
    The delta was about $20 a month, as I recall.

    re: .20, .23 (CA and "add'l insured"):

    Didn't happen to me. There *is* an additional cost for insuring a
    vehicle for business us vs. personal use, presumably because of
    increased risk to the insurer. It's one of the many things that the
    plan "B" monthly sum is supposed to cover. (Of course, it doesn't come
    close to it :-( )

    Adding Digital as an "interested party" *does not* increase risk or
    price. If this happens to you, whoever wrote the quote/policy either
    didn't understand you, is incompetent or is dishonest.

    
    Re .18, that was to insure a '92 Chrysler Lebaron convertible (which
    I decided not to buy after I got this bad news) to plan-b specs. BTW, 
    I have 1 ticket - "70mph in a 55mph zone" - and 0 accidents in the last
    3 years.
    
    The Metpay rep indicated that it was due to the neighborhood I live in.

    re: 24
    
    I was being facetious.  The amount you quoted was very nearly what the
    car payment should be, upwards of $300 a month.  If insurance costs
    more than the car, something has gone very wrong.  If the insurance
    alone takes your plan B payment, there is no way you can win.
    
    As an aside, you can rent a car with insurance for between $150 and
    $200 a week.  At some point, this could be cheaper than owning.

re    <<< Note 2195.23 by 

>    Adding Digital as an "interested party" *does not* increase risk or
>    price. If this happens to you, whoever wrote the quote/policy either
>    didn't understand you, is incompetent or is dishonest.


I can't ignore the fact that the fault could also be mine.

Matt

>    My Allstate agent said to let him run some numbers; when he called
>    me back he said that even with the house, if he added coverage for
>    the car....the car insurance would be approx $100 higher per year!
>    Go figure!!  My Allstate agent said Met's rates would be hard to
>    beat in this state.  I KNOW it could be worse, but $960/yr seems
>    like a lot of bucks for a pregnant roller skate.....even if it is
>    a 5 speed, a sports car it is NOT!!

	That suprises me.  I'm amazed that it varies by that much state to 
state.  My wife and I (early 30s, good records) now pay around $1200 / yr for a 
91 Explorer and a 92 Caravan (both with >= plan B requirements).  I haven't had 
any of the problems with the claims either.  They weren't the cheapest I found, 
but they weren't nearly the most expensive.  I've been with them over 7 years 
now and I'll stay until I find a better deal or a problem with them.

				Tom

     
     A co-worker went to AAA to check out insurance prices with added
    busniness coverage. The price was a little ove $300 more per year.
    The agent also stated (after much pressure) that if this added 
    insurance is not added , and you have an accident while on company
    business you could be left holding the bag. So me being a plan C
    person at 22 cents a mile I will be paying out of my pocket to travel
    for Digital.

    I just insured a '92 Dakota extended cab pickup for $824/yr. (My
    manager bought off on the truck). I chose to carry significantly 
    more liablity than DEC required, since I already carry more on my
    personal vehicles. I did get a multi-car discount since this my third
    vehicle insured with the company. Following are a few other interesting
    things that I learned from my agent.
    
    1) Business use - My insurance company charges the same for business as
    for a vehicle driven to/from work every day. Bottom line is you don't
    get charged extra, but don't expect any discount (other than
    multi-car).
    
    2) Digital is listed as an "Interested Party" - This does not add to
    the premium. The interested party status gives them the same rights to
    notification that the lien holder has. However, Digital is not entitled
    to any compensation for loss, and therefore poses no extra risk to the
    insurance company.
    
    Maybe they do things differently here in Missouri, but that's how it
    worked for me.
    
    Russ

    So, If I am on "Plan C" (no plan), does this apply to me? 
    
    Will my "Uncle Buck-Mobile" require "business" insurance? Does DEC have
    any requirements in this area?
    
    .mike.
    (Looking for that "Winter Rat")

    I really wonder about the NO plan plan.. I mean if Digital decides that
    I don't deserve a car, then my only responsibilty should be "Get to
    Work".. After that if Digital wants me to go somewhere, then they
    should supply the car... WHy should I use my car...
    
    Joe
    

    Re .-1
    
    I'm not sure I agree with this reasoning. But the answer is probably:
    
    	- Same reason as you agree to supply your intellect
    	- Same reason as you agree to pay for your own clothes. You have
    	  to admit you wear your own clothes out coming to work, so why
    	  not your car too?
    
    I guess it comes down to supply and demand. To answer the specific
    question:
    
    "Why should I use my car?"
    
    I guess the answer is because if you didn't Digital might decide it no
    longer needed your services. Of course if Digital gets too petty about
    expenses it'll end up with a really dispirited set of employees and
    will end up losing even more money. So there's a happy medium
    somewhere. Unfortunately I don't think the people at the puzzle palace
    have worked out where that happy medium is yet.
    
    Dave

    Yeah, but generally speaking, employers provide the tools
    for the job.
    
    Most employees have their own brains, so DEC doesn't
    see any need to supply brains for employees.
    
    Society expects people to walk around with clothes on
    regardless of whether they're going to work, so DEC
    doesn't provide clothes.
    
    People don't necessarily carry computer terminals around
    with them, so DEC provides terminals to employees who
    need them to do their jobs.
    
    I presume the car people are as peeved about having to
    buy cars for DEC as you would be about having to
    buy your own terminal.
    

>    I presume the car people are as peeved about having to
>    buy cars for DEC as you would be about having to
>    buy your own terminal.
 
	I think you are right. And lots of people can and do get by with
	less in the way of cars than DEC field people often need. I know
	the car I drove to work today in is not up to the job of a field
	person. The demands of driving in traffic or 30-150 miles a day
	are a lot harder on a car then my 12 mile direct (sort of) highway
	commute. And I'd need a bigger car to carry passangers and/or
	equipment.

	Also lots of people don't need a car to commute to work. Car pools
	van pools mass transit. All those are options for many people but
	not our field people. 

			Alfred

    
    It is an accepted practice that employees provide their own brains and
    their own clothing (in this industry).  It is just as accepted a
    practice that employers provide outside sales and service people with
    cars or car allowances.
    
    The original point was that DEC has strongly signalled, or implied,
    that you only need a car if you drive more than 500 miles a month. 
    They have introduced a policy that provides transportation or a subsidy
    for certain classes of employees and not for others within the same job
    code.  By using "miles travelled" as the criteria rather than functional
    need, they have created a grossly unfair situation.
      

    I have asked more than one "manager" about insurance responsibility for
    plan "C" (cee-no-logic). There's not one "manager" in Digital Equipment
    Corporation with the guts to answer a very simple question. WHO IS 
    RESPONSIBLE FOR DAMAGES IF YOUR VEHICLE IS BROKEN INTO/CARJACKED OR
    DAMAGED WHILE ON DIGITAL BUSINESS??? 
    
    I've seen memos stating Digital will hold responsibility for tools,
    laptop, manaual, and/or parts in your vehicle. I have not see anything
    in writting about using your vehicle in high-risk, high-crime cities 
    where your car insurance is already expensive for "pleasure" usage. 
    with the added "business" insurance, in D.C. it's a 25 to 35% uplift
    in rates. But Digital doesn't care. You have employees with 5 to 20
    years in service/sales who haven't purchased a car in years. The 
    average car payment is $350.00 per month (unless you buy a YUGO)
    and to insure a "new" driver in my area is approx. $2000.00 per year. 
    Oh, sure you can lease a good car for a respected price, but with 
    milage restrictions and upkeep of the car if you want to turn in at the
    end of the lease, 22c per mile won't help you.
    
    And what about standby??? If Digital states you don't need a car to do
    your job because you don't put 500 miles/month on your vehicle and you
    are able to do your "job" effectively between 8:15 & 5:00 because of
    adequate transportation (ie. bus, subway, cabs), when the cabs won't 
    pick you up and the subway and busses stop running, who's fault is it??
    
    Again there's nothing in writing stating you need a car to do your
    job....
    
    I know I'm longwinded but this is my first entry.....
    
    Did the Brainlords of Fleet realize that just because vehicle expenses
    will go down, other expenses will go up..
    
    ie. courier services ( the people who will deliver parts to customer
                          sites) 
      ** remember it is the engineer's responsiblity to meet all customer
         contractual responses... it's Digital's responsibility to insure
         parts/test equipment arrive on the customer's site and once the 
         job is completed you contact the courier to return the parts/test 
         equipment to the office. **
    
        transporation costs (bus fares, cab fares, subway fares)
    
    
    

    re: .27  - Must be nice to get 2 vehicles covered for $1200. In
    Michigan I am being quoted 1200 / yr. for 1 Jeep Cherokee, which I am
    considering  -and I have a good driving record! The insurance in here
    smells as bad as the Rouge river in Detroit!

    RE: .36-
    
>    And what about standby??? If Digital states you don't need a car to do
>    your job because you don't put 500 miles/month on your vehicle and you
>    are able to do your "job" effectively between 8:15 & 5:00 because of
>    adequate transportation (ie. bus, subway, cabs), when the cabs won't 
>    pick you up and the subway and busses stop running, who's fault is it??
    
>    Again there's nothing in writing stating you need a car to do your
>    job....
    
    This is where your loyalty and resource management skills automagically 
    kick in to solve the problem: "We the willing, lead by the unknowning
    have done so much with so little for so long that we are now qualified
    to do anything with nothing." ;-).
    
    You're correct- no one in "authority" is answering these concerns. It's 
    easier to take the "good offense is the best defense" stance. The
    lawyers are pumped up, the bookies are pumped up, but the challenger
    remains to be named in the bout..
    
    Phil

    The difference in insurance rates is truly amazing. I just insured my
    "new" 1989 Ford F-150 4WD pickup for ~$320 twice a year. We went to the
    same company my wife has her '85 Celebrity with, State Farm, bumped the
    deductable to $500 and went from $293/6mo. to $230/6mo. I was also
    quoted, in writing, "business use" for $305/6mo. on the truck.
    
    Go figure.
    
    Yes, I WILL be using the truck for Field Servicing, and NO, as yet
    there is no cap on it. I need the snow and ice in the back for
    traction. "Oh? it's wet/frozen/gone? Gee, that NEVER happened when I
    had my nice warm/dry Taurus wagon."
    
    A Sales Support type made an interesting observation; on "Plan C", I
    can now carry a firearm. The "rules" state "company property" including
    "company vehicles". Interesting concept when we all drive our own
    vehicles.
    
    .mike.
    (and_no_I_don't_carry_it_but_jan_1_I_can_if_I_want.)
    

    I just recieved a memo from fleet without a name attached (suprized??)
    stating the differences between personal and business milage. The memo
    states plan A & B, but nothing about C. Once again, Digital management
    hides behind paper and will not take responsibility for their actions.
    I have been told so many times, "This is the new Digital" or many more
    times "Digital will be profitable". When will we be told "Together, 
    Digital will profit, will take accountability for it's actions,
    negative or positive". Will employee satifaction ever happen again??
    Will Services ever get the respect or recognition as the major line
    of communications between Digital and the customer??  Or will the 
    lines of communication be delayed because of lack of vehicle??
    
    Back to reality.....
    
    I've been on plan B for 7 years and enjoyed it. My insurance is
    $1300.00 /yr. (Not if),when I drop my business insurance, I will 
    pay around $900.00 per year. 
    
    There are three different notes entries about plan B and C. I 
    thought Washington, D.C. was the only District affected by the
    turn in your DECWRECK, buy a car, maintain your car, insure your
    car, gas your car, carry parts in your car, report your car stolen
    to the insurance company, have your car broken into and watch DEC
    pay for that 9000 MCU module and tell you "sorry about your rear
    window" and you must fix it because you need to run this call, fit
    a 19" monitor in you Mazda Miata, drive your '68 Bug in 6" of snow
    because the office is not closed and you have to swap a TU81 on site
    in 1 hour. 
    
    Remember, the vehicle you buy can't break down.
    Remember, the vehicle you drive has to start.
    Remember, the vehicle you drive has to have tags.
    Remember, the vehicle you drive has to have lights, tires, engine at
              least one seat, a working stearing wheel and a front 
              windshield to break the wind.
    
    NOTE***   Doors, floor, side windows, rear window, storage capabilities, 
              ignition screwdriver, undamged glove compartment, shocks,
              breaks, hood, trunk, exhaust system, air staying the 
              in the tires, a clean RED rag in the gas tank, AM stereo with
              optional 8-track with FM/CB converter, heavy rope to use
              as a seat-belt or towing and tying vehicle, a bobbing-head
              dog to cover the crack(not drugs) on your dash, fur for your
              dash, a plastic cup for loose change, a way to shift the
              car from park to drive with pushing it into to the street
              without the help of freinds, windshield wippers, and a damn
              good lawyer are optional. 
    
                                 REMEMBER
                      DIGITAL IS PAYING 22c PER MILE
                        FOR THAT MONEY, YOU CAN
                        AFFORD ALL THE ABOVE OPTIONS
                     
    
               

��      <<< Note 2195.39 by BVILLE::FOLEY "Self-propelled Field Service" >>>
��                          -< I'm going Four-Wheelin' >-

��    A Sales Support type made an interesting observation; on "Plan C", I
��    can now carry a firearm. The "rules" state "company property" including
��    "company vehicles". Interesting concept when we all drive our own
��    vehicles.

    Is this for personal protection, or for those really
    persnickety customer problems?

    	"Listen machine, did you crash five times, or was it
         six?   With all this console log, I kind of lost track
         myself.  This is a .44 magnun, the world's most powerful
         handgun.  It can blow your i-cache clear across the
         room.  You've got to ask yourself one question, machine,
         DO YOU FEEL LUCKY?  WELL DO YOU, MACHINE?"

    re: -1     
    
    "OK BO are we ready to SHOTGUN the parts in the cpu???
    
    "Jest'a'min IKE lemmee git my double barrel 12 gauge smoothbore so we
    kin really do it right"
    

    	A .45 ACP metal jacketed round will not completely penetrate an 11/70 
    backplane at 25'. We tried it at a range once. Be sure to use something 
    with the proper velocity and energy to ensure a quick kill when
    threatening machinery.
    
    Phil

    
    Choice of "tools" for achieving the job....
    
        
          44 caliber with autoloader
          45 long range with laser sighting
          plasma rifle with 400 watt range
          '55 cadilac
    
           I'lll beeeeeeee bak !!!!!!!!!!

re: last several on firearms

You laugh.  Back in the late '70s, I had a customer pull a shotgun on me and 
my manager (we were a DEC OEM) and a (former) Digital employee (Barry Milberg).

Seems that the OEM was a little cash short and was delivering 11/10's for the 
price of 11/34's, and backfilling them.  The customer was a hunting enthusiast.
Also an M.D.

It's a long story, fun to recall now, but not to live thru then.  Another story
that will die as we scatter to the corners of the earth, sigh.  Bye Barry.

Steve

>You laugh.  Back in the late '70s, I had a customer pull a shotgun on me and 
>my manager (we were a DEC OEM) and a (former) Digital employee (Barry Milberg).

I'll bet that had Barry talking straight, didn't it. :-) 
(If I recall correctly, Barry had a bit of a stutter, didn't he?)

-Andy, who was acquainted with Barry during his tenure here in Atlanta

    re: .46
    
    I knew it was sometimes tough to order a system from Digital, but ...
    
    Steve

    I currently carry on my personal car the same limits of coverage
    required by Digital.  I just called my insurance agent and ask what the
    additional cost would be for declaring the car as being used "primarily
    for business."  The additional cost for a 1991 Toyota Celica in
    Cincinnati, Ohio for a person of my age and driving record is $235.00
    per year.  At $.08 per mile it will only take 2,937.5 miles to pay for
    the increase.

    re: .48
    
    At $.08/mile, that implies a Plan B car.  The ~$350/month payment
    should cover that in one payment, even after taxes.
    
    Bob

    re .49
    
    Remember too that the $350, really $315 for CYO, also has to pay the
    gas, maintenance, and make the car payment.  The celica in my example,
    is my wife's car.  I am on plan A, but will change to plan B, so I need
    a car.  I just used my wife's car as a means to determine the
    additional insurance cost.

    RE. 50
    
    Can you fit yourself, an RA82 HDA, Power Supply, the RA82 kit, 
    AND a VR290 and take it all to one site on one trip 
    for $315.00 p/month & $0.08 per mile. 
    
                   Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
                   what a feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeling !!!!!!!!!!!
    
    And then there's the next DECService call.................TU78.....
    ............Down, RDG not testing..................................

    I'll bet you all of the above will fit in the (8') bed of my truck...
    
    Some of it may not be there when I get back from call #1, but what is
    (self) insurance for anyway?
    
    RE: the bulletproof 11/70;
    I have a TS11 in the garage, and Ruger Redhawk. This could be fun...
    
    For a while I had an RA60 pack on the wall of my cube, with holes from
    calibers through it. 12 gauge slug? No problem. .44? Same. .357? 2
    platters and a bulge in the 3rd. .38? one platter, small bulge. .22?
    one platter, tiny bulge. .45? see .357.
    
    .mike.

    RE: .49, .50-
    
    	..and watch that $315 shrink from the withholding it's subject to.
    
    Phil

    
    	Now that I'm not forced to drive a recent vintage auto, I can buy
    some real horsepower.  So when I cant fix a problem I can take my dress
    sharp and suck up attitude to the parking lot and leave noise, smoke,
    and black marks all over the customer and DEC office lots.  Maybe with
    posi-traction I can spell .22 (cents) with one movement.   
    
        they cant call my parents this time...

In reading the CURRENT (effective 14-JAN-1993) fleet policy on VTX, 
there is NOTHING stated about needing business insurance for Plan B. 
All it says is that you must carry a minimum of $250000/500000 bodily 
injury and $100000 property damage, and have Digital named as 
Additional Interested Party (and be notified of any changes in 
coverage).

If this is truely the case, it'll save me over $200/year.....


Comments ??

    re: .55
    Digital doesn't require it, but your insurance company probably will.
    Check with your insurance agent and see what they say.
    
    Bob

<    re: .56
>    Digital doesn't require it, but your insurance company probably will.
>    Check with your insurance agent and see what they say.
    
A few of the folks here in our office were told by their mgr that 
Digital DID require it... and he wouldn't turn their plan B forms in 
until they showed him proof of having business insurance. It cost them 
an extra $250/year. They claim it stated right on the Plan B form that 
it was a requirement, but it wasn't on the Plan B forms I saw. 

Did this used to be a requirement that has changed ??

    Perhaps the mgr was confusing business insurance with the "interested
    party", or whatever it was called, clause.
    
    Call fleet and see what they say.  Then call your insurance agent.  I'd
    hate for you to discover that you weren't covered AFTER you had an
    accident.
    
    Bob

I spoke with Greg Vokes in Fleet this morning. Here's the scoop - 

The "old" policy (and it's still on the Plan B form) required coverage 
of 100000/300000 for bodily injury and 25000 for  property damage - it 
also REQUIRED that you notify the insurance company that this was 
business insurance, and show Digital proof of that. Effective Jan 1, '93
the business insurance requirement is dropped, but the required 
coverage increased to 250000/500000 bodily injury and 100000 property 
damage. It also requires that Digital be named as an additional 
interested party.

He said anyone with the old coverage limits will be receiving 
notification that they will have to send Digital proof that they have 
increased to the new limits (within the next 6-8 months I think he 
said.....)

    	So, has anyone inquired about the cost of increasing their
    liability limit to 250000/500000 etc. and also dropping business
    use?
    
    	This seems the sort of request would raise some questions
    from your insurance agent.
    
    	I received a "Transportation Memo" or somesuch that discussed
    the change in required coverage as if it had been telepathically
    become common knowledge. The statement was made that it had been
    in the policy for "quite some time" yet <SET FLAME ON> WHEN I CHECKED
    THE FLEET POLICY MANUAL, THE PLAN B INSURANCE SECTION WAS LAST UPDATED
    14-JAN-1993. IN FACT, IF I DID NOT READ THIS CONFERENCE, I MIGHT STILL
    BE UNAWARE OF THIS. <SET FLAME SIMMER>.
    
    	The memo also stated that the increased coverage was because
    Digital's coverage begins at the >250000/500000 point, and employees
    essentially have to cover the hole between the 100000/300000 old 
    limit and this. <SET FLAME ON AGAIN> SO WHEN DID DEC'S LIMIT CHANGE
    OR DID SOMEONE JUST NOTICE THIS? <SET FLAME SIMMER AGAIN>.
    
    	The last annoying comment I remember is that it was estimated that
    the increased coverage would only average $100. Perhaps the
    geographically distributed Plan B allowance will be averaged upward to
    cover this? NOT.
    
    Phil

    re: .60 - It seems that Digital secured a better insurance rate at the
    point where they have liability (now moved up to 250K/500K) but at the
    B plan driver's expense to cover the new delta. So the gunt gets
    stepped on again - what's new? The mystery is - why would "business
    insurance" not be required if Digital is still associated with the
    liability? and when reading "Digital Eqpt. Corp. US Business
    Transportation....."  how easy will it be to convince the insurance
    agent to sell you a policy at a normal "driven to work" rate? Yeah,
    right!