Conference 7.286::digital

Wouldn't topic 436 in TALLIS::FLORIDA be a more appropriate place to discuss
this?

-Jack

    I am as astonished as you!  It looked more like a huge tornado skimmed
    the tops of the homes rather than a hurricane.
    
    I live in Pensacola, Florida, which is almost on the Alabama/Florida
    line.  We are waiting to see what it will do now that it is in the Gulf
    of Mexico.  We are expecting 35-45 MPH winds here tonight and we
    are approximately 200 miles E of New Orleans so that might give some
    idea of the size of this storm.  The Pensacola facility is open but we
    are keeping up with the updates as hurricanes can be unpredictable as
    was the case with Elena.

    I've got three brothers in Florida.  One has a 36 foot yacht tied up in
    Key Largo, so I'm real worried about him.  I have not been able to get
    through on the phone, all I get is a recording stating that my call
    cannot be completed due to the hurricane and please try later.  Another
    brother lives in Fort Lauderdale and says they only suffered minor wind
    damage such as signs blown down, tree limbs broken, and windows broken. 
    The other brother lives in West Palm Beach, and they didn't get
    anything.  I live in Houston,TX and we're under a Hurricane Warning at
    the present time.  Will keep noting till they send us home.  According
    to my brother in Fort Lauderdale this one is a big one, so I'm already
    getting prepared.  Even if it doesn't hit us, we'll probably get some
    pretty severe wind.  My blessings to all who have families affected by
    this storm.
    
    regards,
    
    lynne creber
    

RE: -2 

Good luck Peggy.  Pensacola is very much in my thoughts right now.....

Keith R>

    Some early statistics (all preliminary and probably going to get
    worse):
    
    	50,000 homeless (houses destroyed or severly damaged)
    
    	over 2 million with out power
    
    	Early damage estimates - 12-15 BILLION dollars
    
    Homlsted Air Force Base is reported to be totally destroyed; every
    building either totally destroyed or damaged beyond repair.
    
    One emergency services worker compared it to scenes from Hiroshima
    after the A-bomb blast ...
    
    And this is only the first half ... Louisiana is next ... tonight!
    
    Jack Bouknight (from Charlotte, with memories of Hugo clearly in view)

    MY SISTER WHO LIVED IN NARANJA LAKES, NEAR HOMESTEAD, LOST HER CONDO TO
    ANDREW AND IS RIGHT NOW GETTING WHAT PERSONAL BELONGINGS SHE CAN CARRY
    OUT.  LUCKILY SHE STAYED WITH FRIENDS ON THE NIGHT OF THE STORM ONLY 20
    MILES NORTH IN SOUTH MIAMI AND SUFFERED NO HOME DAMAGE THERE.

    Not the ignore the terrible path of destruction but I have a question
    regarding the hurricane name scheme.  A couple of months ago, there
    was hurricane Bonnie, now Andrew.  I thought the scheme was to start
    with "A" and use up the alphabet with men and womens names being
    alternately used.  When does this scheme begin?  January or the beginning 
    of hurricane season?  Why was a "B" used only 2-3 months ago and now the
    "A" is being used?
    
    Inquiring minds want to know.
    
    Jodi- (Hi Ray!) 
    

	I believe that there are two independent name spaces, one for 
	storms originating in the Pacific, one for storms originating
	in the Atlantic. Was Bonnie a Pacific Storm?

					Tom_K

    I don't think Bonnie was a Pacific storm.  The only reason I even
    know about it is because a couple of New England noters named Bonnie
    referenced hurricane Bonnie in their personal name.  
    
    Jodi- (in Calif)
      

    They selected the names for the hurricanes some months ago;
    I know -- someone congratulated me for having my name selected.
    
    The references to Hurricane Bonnie were made at the time of the
    selection, not at the time of the hurricane.  Bonnie hasn't been 
    used -- yet.
    					andrew

    My dad lives right next to Pascagoula, MS, which last night the weather
    service was highly likely to be hit by Andew.  Just about 1:00 I spoke
    with him, and he said they will not need to evacuate because Andew is
    already west of Pascagoula, and still about 170 miles south out in the
    Gulf.  He said Civil Defense plans to evacuate Harrison County where
    Gulfport is, but that Andew is stil moving west/northwest at about 17
    mph.  As far west as Orange, TX is under hurricane watch now.  Landfall
    is expected about 7:00 AM central time.  Looks like Texas, not
    Louisiana, may get the brunt of Andrew.  
    
    My dad went through Hurricane Frederick in '78, so he was prepared!  He
    even had hotel reservations far inland in case he had to leave.  Right
    now he's just waiting - these hurricanes can change direction, thou not
    usually too quickly.
    
    Kathleen who is glad she lives inland!
    
    

                      <<< Note 2067.3 by HSOMAI::CREBER >>>
                             -< Is Houston Next? >-

>>     I've got three brothers in Florida.  One has a 36 foot yacht tied up in
>>     Key Largo, so I'm real worried about him.  I have not been able to get
>>     through on the phone, all I get is a recording stating that my call
>>     cannot be completed due to the hurricane and please try later. 

This brings up a good point and hopefully exemplifies a way in which we can all
learn constructively.

My parents live in San Diego CA near the fault line. As such, we have
established an emergency notification system of our own. When a disaster such
as an earthquake (hurricane, etc.) threatens, it is their responsibility to
contact me within 24 hours. That gives them plenty of opportunity to drive,
hitchhike or walk to a new location where they can contact me by phone, radio,
cellular, etc. Sure I might be worried. But I believe that unfounded worry is
very destructive. So I put my worry on 'hold' knowing that if they are OK they
will find a way to contact me ASAP.

In fact, the last quake they had in their area was around 3am, so I got a call
here (in MA) at 6am before I had even known that there was a quake in the first
place!

Regards,
Steve.

    Re .1
    
     Yup, I think you're right. Tallis::Florida seems more appropriate.
    But does this mean we have to move the note along to a Louisiana and
    then to a Mississippi notes conference as time moves on?
    
    
    :-)

    Does anyone know if the T shirts are available yet?

    Jamie.

	I'm not entirely sure, but I thought I read somewhere that it 
was a difference between hurricanes and some thing else which determined 
whether it was a male or female name.... I think it's in a book I have 
at home somewhere, so I'll see if I can find it (I just moved so my new 
place looks like a minor wind storm went through)

	Cathy

    The names of hurricanes alternate between male and female.  For
    example, I believe the next Atlantic hurricane will be called 
    Bonnie.  Next year they will start with a female name beginning with
    "A" just to keep things even.
    
    Coincidentally, Pacific hurricanes have their own series of names. 
    It's just that we in the U.S. don't hear as much about those
    hurricanes.
    
    Chet

RE: >> Does anyone know if the T shirts are available yet?

Forgive me, but your questions seems very inappropriate.....There are a great 
number of people that now have lost everything they own due to this storm, and
you're asking for T shirts????

Keith R>

   Names used to be all female until many women's organizations
   complained.  Then they started alternating.

    Re .17

    As far as I remember the last devastating storm had hardly blown itself
    out before the T shirts were available. My remark was a sarcastic
    comment on the American desire to make a buck at any cost regardless of
    the normal bounds of good taste. 

    Jamie.

    RE: T Shirt question....

    I'm not sure the T Shirt question is totally inappropriate... It sure
    brings up an idea....

    I would be willing to buy a T Shirt, if I knew for a fact the money
    would go to the rebuilding effort in the storm area... In fact, I would
    buy more than one...!

    Just an idea...!

    Hang in there Florida, Louisiana... where ever else Andrew hits. Let us
    know if there is anything to be done to assist in recovery efforts.
    
    Bob G.
    

	Anyone wishing to help the victims of Andrew can mail a check
	in any amount payable to:


		The American Red Cross


	In the lower left corner memo section of your check write:


		Hurricane Andrew - Dade Relief


	I'll post a Florida address as soon as I can get one but I'm sure 
	your local chapter will accept donations.

    Yes ... any chapter of the American Red Cross can accept donations for
    this disaster and funnel it to the appropriate location.  ARC is
    sending a great deal of resources into these areas and they have been
    hit hard over the past year with a large number of crisis situations. 
    Their resources are limited and being depleated, so any financial help
    will be put to good use.   They provide Mass Care (temp. housing and
    food), and family assistance in the form of grants to those impacted.

    Aren't Pacific storms called Typhoons not hurricanes?

Can we use the Matching Gifts "program" to double our contributions to the
American Red Cross?

/Marty

    Talked to my dad again about 10::00 this Am.  He is in Pascagoula, MS.,
    about 100 miles from New Orleans.  He said it was surprisingly calm and
    did not have the torrential rains they had expected.  By the time
    Andrew made landfall, the Pascagoula area was on the eastern-most
    fringe of the storm.  They never lost power and I had no problems
    getting my call through. 
    
    Our local TV stations are sponsoring relief drives to Florida.  One has
    a van parked at the station being  loaded with donated bottled water,
    infant formula and diapers, etc.  The Salvation Army said NOT to send
    clothes - they have no place to put it and sort it!  
    
    Kathleen
    

    RE: .23
    
    I preface this response with a disclaimer -- I am not a meteorologist,
    merely entering my observations having lived on the Pacific Rim.
    
    Typhoons and hurricanes are essentially the same kind of storm, with
    one or two exceptions ....
    
    1.  Typhoons are named thus because they occur on the WESTERN edge of
    the Pacific Rim; Pacific Hurricanes travel on the EASTERN edge of the
    Pacific Ocean.  The word "Typhoon" seems to derive from that part of
    Asia.  (Don't know where "hurricane" comes from.)
    
    2.  Typhoons move more slowly, I believe, and consequently bring with
    them more rain to any given location unfortunate enough to be UNDER one
    as it SLOWLY moves across their airspace.
    
    3.  With reference to the equator, I believe direction of spin may be
    different/opposite on opposite sides of equator.
    
    ... my thoughts, for what they're worth.
    
    /june

    "Jurac�n" was the Taino (extinct native Puerto Rican Indian) name for
    the "Storm God" and the hurricane was his way of speaking to the
    Indians.  
    
    per a local etymological source,
    
    Dick

    re: 24
                                   
    yes, you can put in for matching dollars from DEC as long as you have
    not exceeded your annual limt in donations (which I believe is $1000). 
    DEC will match dollar for dollar.
                                 

    I called the Corporate Relations office and found out that the RED CROSS
    is requesting donations for the HURRICANE ANDREW RELIEF FUND.  How
    about each facility taking up a local collection???  Donations will be 
    matched by Digital.  Donations can be sent to your local RED CROSS or
    to RED CROSS
       99 Brookline St. 
       Boston MA 02215
    
    Make sure to mark your check for the HURRICANE ANDREW RELIEF FUND.
     

    re: 28
    
    I am pretty sure that the annual limit is $1,000 per charitable
    organization, not per employee.

    from the form:
    
    Digital matches cash or security contributions from a minimum of $15.00
    to a maximum of $1,000.00 per employee, per organization, per calendar
    year.
    
    /dlw

From:	NAME: DELTA_IDEAS <DELTA_IDEAS@MRGATE@CAPNET@OGO>
To:	See Below

         
         ********************************************************
         *                                                      *
         *      SPECIAL DELTA EMPLOYEE INVOLVEMENT BRIEFING     *
         *                                                      *
         *                     Sponsored by                     *             
         *                                                      *
         *    John Sims, vice-president, Strategic Resources    *
         *                                                      *
         *                    August 26, 1992                   *                                   
         *                                                      * 
         ********************************************************
         
         HURRICANE ANDREW - WHAT PEOPLE CAN DO
         
         Many employees are asking what they can do to help in 
         the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew.  The giant storm has 
         left many in need of water, food, shelter and medical 
         attention.
         
         Because of the difficulty in transporting items to the 
         stricken areas, the American Red Cross is asking for 
         cash donations. These will go to attend to the immediate 
         needs of those left devastated.                   
         
         It's suggested that collections be centralized at each 
         Digital facility.  An individual at each site can be 
         responsible for collecting checks and completing a 
         single Digital Matching Gift form for that facility's 
         collective donations.  Check the process on the back
         of the Matching Gift Form. 
         
         Donations go to:
         
         American Red Cross 
         Hurricane Andrew Relief Fund
         99 Brookline Avenue
         Boston, MA  02215
         
         Checks, made out to the American Red Cross, should be 
         marked "Hurricane Andrew Relief" in the memo space.  
         
         Donations made through other qualified agencies, which 
         meet Digital's Matching Gift Program criteria, will also 
         be matched dollar-for-dollar.  Matching gift forms are 
         available through Personnel offices.
         
         If every U.S. employee donates $5, which is matched, 
         the Digital-employee donation would be $500,000.



Date:	27-Aug-1992
Posted-date: 27-Aug-1992

VMSmail To information: @ADDRESSEE.DIS
Sender's personal name: DELTA Program Office 276-8226

    Re .26

    I was curious about the names and decided to look them up. Here is what
    I found.

    Hurricane a usually tropical cyclone with a wind velocity greater than
    117 km/h (73 mph). From the Spanish hurac�n.

    Typhoon a tropical cyclone occurring in the Philippines or China sea.
    From the Canton Chinese words taa� fung (great wind).

    BTW a cyclone is a storm system of winds that rotates about a centre of
    low pressure, while an anticyclone is system of winds that rotates
    round a centre of high pressure.

    Jamie.
                                                         

    
    
    I live 180 miles north of Miami. A local radio station said there
    were 250k homeless in the Homestead area!
    
    Local TV station are still doing reports from Homestead, no power
    for at least a week, death count up to 12, it looks like a war zone.
    
    rob
    
    

Yep, estimates this morning indicate 250K homeless up from 50K estimate 
yesterday.  The area actually comprises Dade County.

Looks like its up to the American public to help out on this one.  So far
three days have passed and our illustrious president has done little more than
show his face down here and guarantee a paltry $10M dollars to an area which
has suffered total devastation to the tune of $20B+

He can ring up a multi-billion dollar tab on the other side of the world in a 
heartbeat but doesn't give a flying %^&% about his own backyard.  I know what
I'm doing come November.

Anyway,  I don't know if this will speed up things but the Palm Beach County 
Chapter of the Red Cross is accepting donations directly.


	American Red Cross Palm Beach County Chapter
	Disaster Relief Fund
	P.O. Box 870
	West Palm Beach, FL 33402

Make the check out to the American Red Cross

Write in the memo area: Hurricane Andrew Relief Fund

re .35

>He can ring up a multi-billion dollar tab on the other side of the world in a 
>heartbeat


	What multi-billion dollar tab did he ring up "in a heartbeat"?

					Tom_K

    previous 2
    
    Let's not make this a political debate.  Please stay on topic.
     

    Just a note for those wishing to donate money, according to the local
    Red Cross if you note on your check "Hurricane Andrew Relief Fund" the
    funds can only be used for victims of Hurrican Andrew.  If you note on
    your check "National Disaster Relief Fund", the funds could be used for
    another disaster.  This may or may not be an issue with you.

I live roughly 60 miles north of the devastation.  I only experienced 80 MPH
winds at my house.  Some folks in this office lost theirs.

I have not been down there personally but know several folks who have.
The media is not sensationalizing.  People have described what they have seen
as a "war zone", "total devastation". The damage is heavy and widespread.

The numbers being thrown around now:

	250K homeless
	1.2M still without power

    Hi,
    
    I live in Tampa, we were spared fortunately.  The pictures and
    television coverage locally shows total destruction.  Though I would
    give high marks to people handling this kind of disaster for getting
    people prepared and evacuating in some cases.  I would give them very
    low marks for being prepared after the destruction took place.
    
    Their are long lines of people waiting to get food supplies and other
    essentials.  There are a lot of people in this area who were spared and
    they are donating as much as they can.  The problem is that even after
    all the donations are collected their is a transportation problem or
    problem in getting these donations to the needy people on time.
    
    
    I hope they (people in charge) learn from this experience and also
    prepare for the aftermath.
    
    Vijay.

      To the folks who watch the news and read the papers, it is as bad 
    as it looks. We have employees who have lost their houses because of
    Andrew. We all need to get out our checkbooks and give whatever we
    can, especially if DEC will match dollar for dollar. I'm sending my
    check today!!!
    
      As a resident of Florida, you learn to track these storms this time
    of year, and hope they weaken and never hit land. All the plywood and
    nails in the world are not going to stop 170mph winds. The death toll
    could have been much, much worse. It will take years to rebuild!
    
      My heart goes out to all the people affected by Andrew, especially
    our fellow employee's. Let's give alittle to help them rebuild their
    lives.
    
    
    Peter C. in Tallahassee

    
    
    Since the weather has passed over Homestead AFB, I know of 2 VAX
    systems there that were up and running on the first bootup.
    
    Example #1.  Vax at Homestead AFB bank,  manager walked into computer
    room, took the plastic wrap off of the system (and disk drives) and
    booted the VAX on the first try.  (Using a battery backup system that
    was part of the system.)  Bank was able to open for business when
    requested by local officials.
    
    
    Example #2.  Local Public High School.  Vax at school had been wrapped 
    in plastic, and surrounded by sandbags to prevent movement. (CPU &
    DISK DRIVES)  Using independent power supplies, the system was booted
    on the first attempt, and is now being used to match lost family
    members, and other civil defence type activities.  The High School lost
    some of its roof, and the CPU was exposed to some rain and winds.
    
    

    re .42 - just the other day I saw an HP Laserjet ad in a PC mag touting
    the fact that it fell to the floor in some California earthquake and
    remained functional.  It reminded me of the story about the microVAX
    that fell through the floor in the SF quake and still worked afterward.
    
    I hope Digital can take advantage of this latest unplanned test of system
    durability in some advertising somehow...

    re: .6 (and others)
    
More than you ever wanted to know about hurricane names:

<Extracted from a series of NWS news releases:>
 ** ABUS34 KSAT 262113 ***
 PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
 NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SAN ANTONIO TX
 415 PM CDT TUE MAY 26 1992

                .....The Greatest Storm On Earth.....
 
The National Hurricane Center flexes the warning service when a tropical
disturbance is detected and confirmed by aerial reconnaissance.  These initial
messages are in the form of bulletins, which alert the system that a suspicious
area is under surveillance. Bulletins are also picked up by news media, where
the word goes out that NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration, is watching a disturbance for future development over the
Atlantic, Gulf, or Caribbean.  If the disturbance intensifies into a tropical
cyclone, a time-honored tradition is applied - it is given a name. 
 
The early Caribbean practice of naming hurricanes for the saint on whose day
they occurred was never used in this country, but our substitute was a
cumbersome latitude-longitude identification.  The advent of high-speed
communications, together with the confusion which arose when more than one
tropical cyclone was in progress in the same area, forced a change.  For a
time, tropical cyclones were designated by letters of the alphabet (e.g.,
A-1943), and by the World War II phonetic alphabet (Able, Baker, Charlie); and
it has been suggested that the storms be named from the international civil
aviation organization's phonetic system (Alpha, Bravo, Cocoa), the letters of
the greek alphabet (Alpha, Beta, Gamma), the names of animals (Antelope, Bear,
Coyote), and descriptive adjectives (Annoying, Blustery, Churning).  It has
also been suggested that the storms carry the names of well-known
personalities, places, and things, and the names of mythological figures. 
 
It appears that the feminization of tropical cyclones began during World War
II, when weathermen plotting the movement of storms across vast theaters of
operations identified them alphabetically, using the names of girls.  George R.
Stewart's novel, "Storm" (Random House, 1941), may have been the first
published account of this practice.  Whatever the origin, the use of ladies
names for tropical cyclones had been persistent.  Even though some alternative
recommendations have had merit, the practice continued, and had been official
weather service policy from 1953 until 1979. 
 
In 1960, a semi-permanent list of four sets of names in alphabetical order was
introduced.  In 1971, the list was expanded to ten sets of names.  A separate
set of names was used each year, beginning with the first name in each set. 
The letters q, u, x, y and z were not included because of the scarcity of names
beginning with those letters. After ten years, when the ten sets of names had
been used, the sets were to be used over again in the same manner.  The names
of noteworthy hurricanes were permanently retired from the list and replaced by
another.  Hurricane Carla, which struck the Texas coast in September of 1961,
was one such hurricane to have her name retired. 
 
Typhoons and Pacific hurricanes had also been feminized.  In the eastern north
Pacific, the alphabetical listing of names was prepared in sets of four, and
designations were cycled from year to year.  In the central and western north
Pacific, the practice differed because of the high incidence of tropical
cyclones.  The four sets prepared for typhoons originating there were not
cycled annually.  Instead, all names were used consecutively, regardless of the
year.  For example, if the 1991 typhoon season had ended with typhoon Virginia,
then 1992 would have begun with typhoon Winifred, both from the same set of
names. 
 
In 1979, the National Weather Service practice of using female names only for
the naming of hurricanes was modified to include men's names to identify every
other tropical cyclone.  The 1991 hurricane season included Bob, Claudette and
Danny, among others. 
 
The 1992 hurricane season will begin with Andrew, and will be followed by
Bonnie, Charley, Danielle, Earl, Frances, Georges, Hermine, Ivan, Jeanne, Karl,
Lisa, Mitch, Nicole, Otto, Paula, Richard, Shary, Tomas, Virginie and Walter. 
 
                              -----------
 
(This is the last in a series of public releases on hurricanes - The Greatest
Storm On Earth, prior to the beginning of the 1992 hurricane season which
begins June 1st and continues through November.) 
    

    Re: .35
    
    	$10 million .vs. $20 billion in destruction
    
    	 It seems like private insurance would cover a good portion of
    	the difference. It's seems to me as though $10 millions (as a
    	start) on the very day after is not a bad first response. The
    	true level of dedication towards government help will be a
    	week or a month or two from now when there aren't so many
    	cameras around for free election-based pubilicty.
    
    Re: .42
    
    	Sand-bags???? Wow! Great idea! I can't even remember the last
    	time I saw a sand-bag in person. I think that's some quality
    	forethought.
    
    	Still_amazed_by_pictures_of_Andrew
    
    
    	Glenn

	Re .26 [Hurricane = typhoon = tropical cyclone]

	I heard that in Australia such a storm is known 
	as a willy-willy.  

	Is this true?  Why?

Well, according to my Concise Oxford, a "willy-willy" is a cyclone
or dust-storm.  The word is of Aboriginal origin.

On the other hand, a "williwaw" is a sudden violent gust of cold air common
along mountainous coasts of high latitude, a term common in the Pacific
northwest and Alaska.

Sounds like Willie Horton's behind it.

    Hi,
    
    Getting back on the serious side our (DEC) folks in Miami have been
    going through a rough time.  Some people have still not been heard
    from.
    
    All florida facilities are coordinating a major effort to collect items
    they need and drive down with the supplies for distribution.
    
    We are also collecting cash to help them out.
    
    This is serious folks we must do something to help them out.
    
    Thanks, 
    
    Vijay.

    REPLY TO NOTE:2067.43
    
    Yes we did and do have an advertisement on the SF earthquake.
    I'ts called "we beat Murphy's Law"
    
    I remeber speaking to an account in calif that mentioned their system
    fell 2 flights threw the roof and they put all the stuff in and it
    rebooted!! I told him to call local office and they may do an
    advertisement it!!

    ADDTIONAL NOTE:
    
    We at the Technical Consultanting Center as of today have collected
    over $500 fro thurs and today- it will be going in the mail on sat
    to the florida red cross-
    
    
    Let's hear from some other groups!!!

    We here in the Denver office are in the process of collecting funds to
    be forwarded on to the American Red Cross.
    
    L:

    Will anyone with any knowledge of people who were devasted by the
    Hurricane and HAVE NO INSURANCE please contact me off-line?  My church
    may be coordinating an effort and I may use one week of vacation to
    travel to So. Florida or Louisiana.  We are specifically looking for
    those who may be not have any means of rebounding and rebuilding.
    
    Ron Warrenfeltz DTN 327-3142 @COL
    

    One of my cousins lives on Key Biscayne, right next to the ocean.
    Prior to the storm they moved as much of their furniture and 
    belongings to the second floor as they could, battened down the 
    hatches, then took their two cars and themselves to stay with a
    relative living further inland.  When they came back after the
    hurricane had passed, they found they'd had 3' of water in the
    first floor of the house.  While the cleanup continues they are
    staying with friends.  
    She says the stench in the area from all the muck, dirt, and general
    lack of sanitation is incredibly bad.
    All in all, they are lucky compared to a lot of other people.  They
    are alive, and the roof stayed on their house.

    I just returned from Turkey Point Powerplant (the eye of Andrew passes
    directly over it).  The total destruction for miles and miles is
    indescribable.  The power plant will have to be rebuilt.  The
    Containment buildings are all that survived undamaged.  The metal
    buildings were all either gone or pushed in and crushed.  The
    "hurricane proof" office buildings were in pretty bad shape,
    internally and externally.  The vaxes however, were running on
    generators.  The people of this area are living the open.  There
    are no livable homes for miles and this is a heavily populated area.
    These people need help.  There is nothing that they don't need.
    

    
    Perhaps on a humorous note (if there is any...) I heard this
    morning on NPR an interview with a guy who owns Pesky Critters
    in the Miami area.  It's a business that specializes in getting
    rid of troublesome animals like skunks, snakes, etc.  He's
    been getting literally hundreds of calls about Chinese Fallow
    deer, pythons, panthers (yes, there are at least 8 of them on
    the loose down there now), monkeys, etc.
    
    He related the story of a guy who called in a panic who had sicced
    his 110lb Rottweiler on a baboon.  The dog charged; the baboon
    swatted it up into the air and the dog ended up cowering behind
    his owner while the baboon strolled on his merry way.  Don't mess
    with a baboon.
    
    Steve
    

    The real sad story I heard, this morning, on the news, is the one of
    the Generator saleman attempting to sell $300 (reported to be this
    price) generators for $1,500.00.... This type of slime should be strung
    up...
    
    This is the type of thing the Federal government should be controlling,
    during such desasters.... There should be laws preventing rate
    increases of products which would be used in the rebuilding of areas
    hit by "natural desasters".... OR.... if that isn't inforceable, at
    least offer insentive to those companys/suppliers who do keep their
    prices stable during such times.
    
    It takes all kinds to make a world...!!!
    
    

    Conference pointer
    
    PEAR::SOAPBOX general discussion
    
    Andrew is discussed in note 1016.

See also:  CAPITALISM 
	   SUPPLY_AND_DEMAND
	   CAVEAT EMPTOR
	   VALUE_BASED_PRICING
	   etc.

    >See also:  CAPITALISM
    >           SUPPLY_AND_DEMAND
    >           CAVEAT EMPTOR
    >           VALUE_BASED_PRICING
    >           etc.


    How do you say;  Unfair advantage
    		     Taking advantage of despair
    		     WRONG
    		     

    If I were to gain access to a list of businesses, taking part in such
    gouging practices, I would make every effort to NOT do business with
    these people in the future....! I do have the name of the generator
    distributor (from the side of his van) and the name of the generator
    manufacturer.... I will send the manyfacturer a letter, letting them
    know of this practice.... and if they have anything to do with such
    practices, I will insure a personal boycot of their product (should I
    be in the market for such an item).

    Call this practice anything you want..... IT IS WRONG..!!! It is bad
    enough the people wiped out have to rebuild and buy everything new to
    start with.... to have to pay VERY inflated prices to do this is WRONG.

    My hats off to the businesses who have the compassion to either donate
    or at least sell at prestorm prices.
    
    INHO..!
    
    

    I thought I heard on a Public Radio  station a few days ago that the
    Governor of Florida just signed an emergency bill making it a crime to
    do price gouging.  Of course, I may have misunderstood, since I was
    busy driving, but maybe someone could find out if I heard right?
    
    				Kathleen

    True, it is aganist the law to price gouge in Florida. The state is
    going after these people and so are there customers. One guy came 
    down while some high priced materials and a group of people
    beat the heck out of him and took the stuff! It's on film! 
                                                              
    rob

    i hope you mean that the crooks are the people that beat the guy up and
    stole his property.
    
    no one is forcing people to pay the high prices.  They can do without,
    or they could have prepared before hand a little better.  but i doubt
    they did or will.

    
    I don't know, we may be talking about building materials, something
    which I don't think south Florida can do without right now.  (Yes, I
    know, they shouldn't have beattheguy up or stole his stuff, but I doubt
    it was stuff they could "do without".)
    
    Cq

    It *is* price gouging, and it *is* against the law (actually, an
    executive order signed into law by the governor.)  The same thing
    happened in SC (Charleston) when Hugo came through.  Bags of ice $8-$15
    dollars; sheets of plywood $25-$25 (no ratholes, please - this was
    *cheap* $8 plywood before the storm); generators $1500-$3000 (pre-storm
    priced at K-mart for $299.)
    
    In SC, these people were arrested (the ones that weren't "punished" by
    those they attempted to rip-off...)
    
    People are expected to make a profit.  What the found was that people
    from unaffected areas (other states) were coming in and selling stuff
    at *very* inflated prices.  These people (in SC anyway) were arrested
    and taken to jail.
    
    In my opinion, as they should be...
    
    Todd (who was here during Hugo - not a pretty site/sight!)

    Re .-1
    
    Which would you prefer:
    
    	a) No goods at all such as generators etc?
    	b) Goods at inflated prices?
    
    Ifr these people are making so much profit how come somebody else
    doesn't undercut them? Or just maybe they have a scarce commodity that
    somebody is willing to purchase at that price. Nobody is forcing
    anybody to buy anything.
    
    Also regarding this Exec Order. What is defined as too high a price?
    Remember the cost of doing business for the seller is probably higher
    after a natural disaster. Is the seller meant to pick up the
    difference?
    
    Dave

    since it has gotten into an economics/goverment/morality rathole.
    
    Bob - co-moderator DIGITAL