Conference 7.286::digital

    It's might be something like what the airlines do when they delay a
    flight.  They announce in the boarding area that flight ### will be
    delayed twenty minutes.  Although they know that the flight is actually
    two hours late they keep saying the delay is twenty minutes so that no
    on leaves the gate area and goes in disgust to another carrier to
    change their tickets.  Just a thought.
    
    I had an experience several weeks ago trying to get a catalog.  I
    called the new and improved desk-top-direct number, or whatever it's
    called and asked about employee discounts etc.  At the end of the
    conversation I asked the guy about sending me a catalog, because I was
    looking at a coworker's.  He told me that catalogs were sent by some
    outside company in New Hampshire (I think) but he didn't know the
    number.  He said that he had no way of sending one to me but that I
    might be able to get one through the DEC library (I didn't know we had
    one)  Anyway, the upshot was that I just sort of dropped the subject. 
    When I returned my coworker's catalog, I asked him where he had gotten
    his.  He said that he called the desk-top-direct (or whatever) and they
    sent him one.  I told him that I tried and failed.  He said did they
    know you were an employee and I told him yes because I had asked about
    the discount program.  My coworker said, "Oh, don't let them know that,
    just give them your home address, then they can send you one."
    
    On a  sales note.  If we have people waiting for three to four months
    for a PC, custom configuration or not, DEC's venture into the personal
    computer field will be a marketing challenge of the century.
    
    Dave

    
    I would expect that a lot of people are getting that phone call today. 
    It should not come as a surprise that EPP is having a tough time
    keeping up with all the employee purchase orders.  It does seem really
    cheesy to start calling people now, especially with the end of the
    fiscal year.
    
    And if/when you get this PC system, what are the chances that it will
    be properly configured and contain all that you should have with it?
    Some people I know that have received their systems have not had good
    experiences.  I've know of cases where the hard disk has been the wrong
    size; not enough meg on the motherboard; 4 meg more than what
    was ordered; nothing upon booting up; no software, etc.
    
    I also heard a couple people say that they have not received their
    Lotus software that they should have gotten.  Supposedly those are
    being shipped separately from the PC, and a few people have not gotten
    the software yet.
    
    - Mike 
    

    I had trouble getting to HUMANE during the day today or would have
    entered this update earlier.
    
    Things are better than I originally thought.
    
    They offered ma a 450DX in place of my 425.
    
    	- 122 meg IDE disk instead of the 105 meg on the 425
    	- system *comes* with 2 serial and 1 parallel port, negating my
    	  need for the additional serial interface card (I have an external
    	  modem that I'll be using).
    	- one less expansion slot...but effectively the same given the
    	  above.
    	- 50mhz for on-the-board speed (graphics, etc.) and 25mhz for 
    	  device I/O.  The 425c was 25mhz for all operations.
    	- approximately the same price...even a few $$ less.
    	- ship date "end of July".
    
    I'm going with the deal...the payroll deduction is still the least
    painful way for me to go.  Hopefully, this will arrive when they
    predict.
    
    	~dave
    

    re: .3 That's a good deal.

    re: .3, now that you've been pacified, you should perhaps change the
    name of the base note....

	I don't know what the DECdirect price for a DECpc is in the
	States: here in the UK it's just under �2,000 for a DECpc 425
	with 4MB and 120MB HDD. At the current exchange rate that's
	about $3,700 (that's not a typo - prices in the UK tend to
	be about the same as the US, although our unit of currency is
	worth almost double).

	Research (i.e. a couple of hours reading the PC magazines I
	bought in my local shop) reveals that for about �300-500 less
	I can have a 33 MHz (the DECpc 425 is 25 Mhz) with at least as
	much memory and hard disk.

	Plus I can get it right away, from someone who will be delighted
	to have won my business from at least 30 other highly competitive
	vendors. Many of them are offering at least a year's warranty
	with 8-hour callout, plus hotline support "for life" (yeah, the
	life of the vendor, i.e. about 6 months - cute).

	The way I see it is this: when I am a huge multinational
	corporation, I will buy from Digital - perhaps. 

	While I am an underpaid, overworked DECcie with too many troubles
	already, I will save myself time, money, hassle and effort, and
	buy elsewhere. Thus saving a DECpc to be sold at a modest profit to
	some valued customer.

	/Tom

re: 1968.3              EPP sticking it to us...again?                   3 of 3
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                              -< Getting Better >-
PC-Direct does what they are told to do .. satisfy the external customer
first !!

If you need a catalog ... have a relative call up on the 800 number
and  request one .. being sure not to mention you work there ... if 'you'
look like an external customer .. you'll be treated like one.

However, according to some of the 'external' customers I have spoken
too ... they share your frustration and anger .. we try to fix what we 
can and get the right people involved .. sometimes we can help turn them
around .. sometimes not ...

PC-Direct is trying to 'do the right thing' .. if you're not happy,
check the front of the phone book, call the customer satisfaction hotline,
and do something besides write angry notes ... ;^)  

Don't just do something . .stand there ... "

Best of it,

Bob

    re: .3
    
    I'd check about the slots issue.
    
    My understanding is that the 450DX2 is another slim-line product (3
    bays, one of which is used by the 3.5 floppy, and only 3 slots).  This
    is a far cry from the 4(?) bays and 6 slots of the 425c.
    
    For further info, I suggest people refer to the CAM3::EMPPURPRO
    conference.
    
    -- Russ

    I just got my call and am happy.  The guy took great pains to explain
    everything to me and the differences.  Yes it has less slots and bays
    but several of the things that took space before is incorperated on the
    systems board, ie the vidio card for one.  I am happy with the upgrade
    and they even offer you the chance to upgrade to a 245 meg disk for
    only about $150.00 more, I grabbed that also...  
    
        True you end up with about 1 less slot and bay but you get alot
    more system also.  A good trade off if you ask me.
    

  
   Is that 50 MHz 486 an SX or DX chip (Is it's co-processor disabled ?)?

Mike.

It's a DX2 chip.  My understanding is
	- the coprocessor is enabled
	- the bus really runs at 25MHz, but the chip runs internally at twice
	  the bus speed

   Gary

    Could someone please give the phone number for customer service here?
    
    I ordered my pc425 on June 26, along with my manager, and another
    counterpart.  Well, both my manager and counterpart are up and running
    on the 425.  I have yet to receive a phonecall.
    
    Everytime I call, the customer service rep (hah!) tells me that I am
    on a list of people to be called, and "DON'T CALL US, WE WILL CALL
    YOU!"
    
    Today is the 5th of August, and still no call.  This is a bunch of
    crap!  I wrote in a previous note that some people aren't doing their
    job.  Here is one instance to show just that.
    
    I don't care if I don't have my pc until the cows come home, But I damn
    sure want to at least get a status, and be treated like a customer,
    
    "Mr. Harris, your order will be shipped on November 14th, we are so
    sorry." Not, "Don't call us we will call you".
    
    bob
    

    
    
    	If this is an internal order all PCs are on hold for at least
    	Q1 and probably Q2 unless you get a VP signature... 

    I have been getting the ULTIMATE run around by that schlock outfit
    known as desktop direct.  I hope some manager from that dept reads this
    note.  The telephone answerers refuse to deliver my call to a manager.
    I keep getting the same old song and dance, "you need to talk to so and
    so, here is there extension".
    
    My final response was this today," Here is my name, here is my dtn,
    here is my Dec#.  If no one calls me today just to talk about my order,
    cancel the damn thing and I will buy third party!"
    
    Extremely poor customer service in my opinion.  I am not looking for
    my pc on my desk at home in a week, ALL I WANT IS COMMUNICATION!
    
    Desktop direct sucks!
    
    bob (looking at multivendor equipment now)  <------and that's sad!
    

    Bob....tell us how you REALLY feel.  Don't hold back.  It's not
    healthy.

    Bob,
    
    A month ago when the employee purchase discount became official I tried
    to order a 486/33 system with at least a 100mb hard drive, two floppies
    and a svga monitor.  With the discount the price was 3K.  I ordered and
    recieved my system from an outside vendor out of Ohio in 7 days.
    
    486/33 mhz full tower,3.5 & 5.25 HD floppies, 105mb Hard drive,101
    keyboard, svga monitor, 1mb ram on the video card, 4mb ram, 640K
    cache memory on cpu, mouse and a game port card. Windows 3.1 and DOS
    5.0 installed.
    
    				$  1,787.63  delivered to my door.
    					     20 minutes later I was
    					     installing word perfect and
    					     harvard graphics.
    
    Isn't customer service grand:-)
    
    Tom, Management doesn't want to listen.

    Gee, I kinda feel like I'm alone out here!.  I have placed two
    seperate orders with Desktop Direct.  One in may, and the other last
    week.  My first order was on a 320p, and my secocd was on a 420sx. 
    Both experiences went great.  I got my laptop within 5 days, and when
    they reduced the price a month later, they lowered my cost to reflect
    the new price.
    
    My 420sx took about two week to get here(in higher demand, I suppose),
    but it went just as smoothly.  I believe that they are good quality
    machines, and I have been price shopping afterwards.
    
    Laptops are dropping licke rocks, and they are now less expensive than
    what I paid.  However, I could not find a 420sx type machine 4mb Ram, 
    SVGA graphics and 120mb hard drive for under $1600 on the street
    
    To top it all off, I get a 2 year interest free loan (with no credit
    check) off the top of my paycheck.  I havn't figured it out yet, but we
    are paying effectively alot less, when you take into account the
    interest factor.  
    
    I don't know about you, but I'd much rather give e'm ~16.00 a week,
    than $1,600 once.
    
    Dan (who does NOT work for Desktop Direct) Ducat
    

    The two years financing is great, BUT you have to be shipped a product
    to use the financing.  You have to place an order to use the financing.
    
    Finally, after 42 of placing my order, I had contact with"my" sales
    rep at pcbydec.  This was accomplished ONLY because a friend of mine
    works in the same facility, who knew of my problem.  he got the sales
    rep on the phone.
    
    The sales rep would not even listen to me, he was just rambling on 
    and justifying his position.  This irritated me, as I am in services
    sales, and the first thing you do is LISTEN to your customer.  I am
    a customer.  I am buying DEC equipment.  I don't have to.  So, anyway,
    he tells me that I should get a call next week sometime.  I told him
    that would be to late.  We handle my order now, or he cancels it.  Well
    tough choice for him. But we changed my  order to the 320sx and I will
    have delivery in 2 weeks.  I will believe it when I see it.  AFter this
    whole situation, they still SUCK as far as customer service and
    customer satisfaction goes.  I just hope that if I get my unit on time,
    it went through quality control and won't be doa.  If it is, I send the
    whole thing back and buy third party.
    
    In reference to the financing, I don't care about it.  That is not the
    selling tool.  As a services sales specialist, I do not refer customers
    to 1-800-pcbydec.  It will reflect bad images on me.  Excuses don't
    make the customer happy, results do.  And until someone up there
    figures it out, they will continue to be in the mode of putting out
    fires.  It's sad to see that threatening to cancel an order is what
    gets results.
    
    Bob
    

    re .19 by R Harris
    
    Is it the entire organization or just the one sales rep that you
    happened to get?  Naturally, a customer wouldn't care, but we, as
    employees do.  Can this problem be solved by applying proper
    "adjustment" to one component of the assembly, or do we have to
    redesign the whole solution?
    
    Dick

    I feel it was the whole design.  I spoke with numerous individuals.  I
    couldn't even write down all their names.  If you pick up a ringing
    phone, you own the call.  Not hand it off to never never land will
    no one will return it.
    
    When my system is shipped home, and it is up and running, that is
    when I will send Jay Atlas and A1 and paint the picture of the scenario
    I am going through.
    
    bob
    

    Ducat:
    	You are indeed fortunate.
    Harris:
    	You are not alone.
    
    

    ref -18: I simply can not fathom your statement that you could not find
    a cheaper system on the street, because in all reality if you checked
    prices you could have gotten a whole lot more.
    	regards
    	John

re:.23

Believe it.  Prices have dropped so rapidly that's it's impossible for
anyone to claim that they're the lowest-cost supplier for more than a
day.  I believe that today, Aug. 8, 1992, you won't find any Digital
PC's are that are lowest cost.  If you check for the first week of the
spring DECworld specials, the 420SX package, including software, was an
excellent deal, very difficult to beat, assuming that all pieces of the
package, including the free SmartSuite, were valuable to you.   Thrree
months later, when that offer expired, it was no longer such a deal,
simply because competitors had dropped prices.

Likewise, there was a period of time when our 320 laptop was a price
leader (albeit on obsolescent technology), again assuming you wanted
all the items that we packaged.

For better or worse, most of the time when we have the best prices,
it's on the oldest equipment, typically 20 or 25MHz systems.

   Gary

    I just got off the phone with Linda Brown at desktop direct.  They
    need more employees like her, and Paul Thibideau.  She had received
    a copy of my vaxnote, and took it upon herself to call me and give me
    the warm fuzzies.
    
    I think people need to know that when you don't get the customer
    what he wants, when he wants, the warm fuzzies are in order.
    
    We spoke about my situation, and as of today, things are much 
    better.  Let's see what happens when my system comes in.
    
    Bob
    

    
    
    Bob,
    
    How's it going with d/d?  Have you received you system yet?  I'm in a 
    similar boat in that I wanted to buy DEC but after checking out prices
    I decided that I got too little with DEC with too much hassel.  
    
    I am on my second system (386/50) was my first system and I have sold 
    it in preparation for buying a 486/?.  My dollars as a few and far be-
    tween as anyone's but the interest saved on the two year loan was still
    not great enough to convence me to take the EPP.  
    
    My first system was compiled (no pun intended..}-)) by one person
    outfit from Merrimack, N.H. which was recommended by s/w engineers from
    ZKO who already had bought from this person.  I had a wide variety of 
    components to chose from in regards to motherboard, tower/desktop,
    keyboard, mouse, monitor, etc. If I had wanted, the rep. would have come 
    to my home to install the system but the system was preassembled to the
    point where all I did was plug in the appropriate cables and I was up 
    and running.  The os and software were not provided.
    
    I ruined the keyboard (orange juice is a real killer between the keys)
    and the rep. volunteered to clean and restore it free of charge.  I had
    24 hour access to him (including weekends) and never waited longer than
    one day to get a question answered.  (And a a beginner, I asked tons of 
    questions!!)
    
    I have gone back to him with my specifications for my new system and
    the souped up system I now want is $400 less that my original system
    of a year ago!  And now DOS v.5 and Windows v. 3.1 is included along 
    with my choice from his extensive collect if I so chose.  Can DEC 
    compete with this one-horse outfit?  Sadly the answer is no.  I think 
    we would all prefer to by from our own company but how can I do that 
    knowing there is better equipment and service from a one person company
    who runs his business from his home?
    
    Good luck with your system!
    
    

    Here it is, August 20th, AND STILL NO #$%^^%$@$# STATUS ON MY ORDER!
    My call with Linda back whenever seemed nice, and it SOUNDED like I 
    was going to get results.  I called last night, and STILL, no status
    of my order.  I am still extremely frustrated with this situation.
    With the exception of the two people I mentioned in a previous note,
    they should change the name of it from pcbydec, to ringling brothers
    circus.
    
    I am going to make DEC deliver a working unit.  I don't care if it
    takes till new years of 2000, from what I have been through, I am
    going to make them deliver.  Once it is all done, a memo WILL go to
    Jay Atlas, or whomever is king/queen of desktop.
    
    Yes, you do sense anger, frustration, dissapointment, basically peeved
    with the situation.  I want results, not a story line.
    
    Now, enough of what a customer wants, let's hear some more good
    excuses.  That seems to be the only thing I can get out of them.
    
    Bob
    

    Now, now Bob!  Always keep in mind that the real customers come first,
    not an employee (since we aren't customers) :-).

    Beside this, isn't the Company name on the product what is important?
    After all we are the fastest growing PC company.

    Really Bob, I do feel for you and all that are going through what you
    are going through.  This is demonstrating just a SMALL part of what is
    wrong with this company (along with sarcastic replies like mine).  I
    just hope this company wakes up before we get WANGED...

    Jim Morton

    Actually it portrays a LARGE part of what is going wrong in DEC -
    amongst other things lack of anyone to pick up all the dropped balls...
    
    /a

    I don't care if I am an employee or not, if my money goes to DEC for
    buying a product, I AM A REAL CUSTOMER!  They better realize that.  I
    could easily cancel and go spend my money to a place that will deliver.
    I got an EXPECTED ship date of 9-1-92, but we'll see.  BTW, they gave
    more excuses last night.  If I had a nickel for every excuse they gave,
    I could be on a sailboat in the caribbean sipping cool rum drinks.
    
    bob "who needs a vacation from the stress build up of pcbydec"
    

    ref stress build ups and order follow up in DEC-BY-PC relationships

    Bob,
    Iam sorry to hear about the raised anxiety level you've been
    experiencing lately from DEC-BY-PC experience.

    I want to address this concern today from the health point of view.

    I just want to remind every one that we do have in most DEC facilities 
    a health staff available to examine your raising blood pressure from the 
    follow up on your orders, they'll ask you few questions simple
    questions as to the nature of the order and how many times you called, 
    and things of this sort, to build up the data base for your later 
    prognosis, then they'll processed to obtain your present blood
    pressure and anxiety levels and enter it in your individualized 
    anxiety-order-follow-up-data-base.
    
    I suggest you strongly utilize this service immediately after each and
    every a call you make to DEC-BY-PC.
    
/Nasser
    I spell checked

    re .31
    
    Sorry, Nassar, but if you do a count - "most" DEC facilities are field
    offices that have a first aid kit hanging on the wall with a couple of
    aspirin for 'health facilities'.
    
    	-Barry_who_can_spell_by_himself-
    

    I ordered a system from the Employee Purchase program, went through all
    the apparently obligatory time delays, got the requisite runaround,
    received the customary 0% communication feature.  The system came.  The
    printer didn't.  A couple of days later I got a letter from DESKtop
    direct, "Thanks to customers like you ..."  announcing a 10% price
    reduction on the printer I had ordered (but still hadn't received). 
    I'm a very cooperative, faithful employee so I waited patiently for
    3:30 MDT so I could call in the proper time frame reserved for
    employees to get a status on my printer and inquire about the price
    reduction.  While waiting, I typed PHONE DIR CGVAX2 at about 3 p.m. MDT
    and there were about 120 people logged on.  By 3:30 there were 10.  I
    dialed, got into the "two phone messages alternating every 60 seconds"
    mode where you have to push the '0' key to stay on hold every minute. 
    I was in this mode for 20 minutes.  At this point they don't know if
    I'm an internal or external customer. Finally!  I talk with Margaret.
    
    She tells me that there is no printer on my order.  There is a note
    dated 1-July that I wanted a printer added to my order but there is no
    printer.  "I'd like to order a printer, Margaret.  Can I get a
    printer?"  "Yes, send us a certified check or give me a major credit
    card number and we'll send it.  $468 doesn't qualify for the payroll
    deduction program."  "It should have been on the system order, can't it
    be added?"  "No, the employee purchase program doesn't work that way."
    "Well, Margaret...what about the 10% discount letter you sent me, can I
    get that?"  "They shouldn't have sent that to you...it doesn't apply to
    employees."  "we could have saved a lot of money by not sending it to
    employees if it doesn't apply to them, don't you think?"
    
    Anyway,  I have my checkbook with me today and I'm going to have a
    printer tonight.  You don't get that kind of turn around from DEC and
    you don't give your money to someone who gives you the runaround.  I'll
    spend a little more for a lot more printer or a little less for the
    same printer.  Don't get me started about the service center...

    Wow!  Just heard my pc was delivered at home today.  Not bad DEC.  It
    only took 8 weeks!!!!!!!!!! Let's see if it works now.
    
    Let's see, 8 weeks = two months, hmmmm, almost one quarter, 1/6 th of
    a year.  Not bad for the second largest computer company.
    
    bob
    

Re: .34 
   
>    Let's see, 8 weeks = two months, hmmmm, almost one quarter, 1/6 th of
>    a year.  Not bad for the second largest computer company.
    
It's 3rd largest computer company now. Therefore, it's forgiveable. Sigh !!

Michael..

    re: .34, .35
    
    But hey! We're the fastest growing PC company! And perhaps, if 8 week
    deliveries are the norm, we can become the fastest shrinking PC
    company, too!
    
    :-)

I'm at thirteen weeks and no PC. If other customers are getting the
same treatment we won't be 3rd long!

				Dick

    Our traditional delivery cycle of 90 days has been as short as 60, but
    rarely shorter.  Just one of the Digital traditions that must be
    TSFO'd.
    
    Dick

    
    I keep hearing about these delays, this has not been my experience;
    I ordered two PC320's on a tueday and they were delivered on the 
    following Friday, Not bad I don't think 8 business days isn't bad at 
    all.   I order a DECjet 2000  and it only took 5 business days to get
    it. Both were via ups, which is normally a 3 day service from anywhere
    point to point.
    
    Bob Cansler 

    yeh, who do you know?  You must be some "big wig" though.  At least
    my system is operational.  Way to go, to the people in quality control.
    
    I am just waiting on the Lotus smart suite now.  Time to buy a third
    party printer.
    
    bob
    

    I'm very happy with my 320sx and DECjet 1000.  (I was up until 3 this
    morning working with it.  Oh, it's so NICE to have sysprivs again ...)
    I ordered it on August 10.  Got it on August 27th.  The main shipment
    was done by a trucking service.  I have had no problems so far.
    
    Seems to depende on what you are ordering.  May have more to do with
    suppliers than with Digital internals sometimes.
    
    Steve

I KNOW!
The statisticians are basing the measure of x-largest PC company
on BACKLOG!!  If we never deliver a PC faster than 90 days, our
backlog grows very fast, and the "figures"look great!
;^)}

Seriously, we should maybe look into the metrics by which the people
running a department which delivers unacceptable response time, can claim
success.

Kevin

    Speaking of EPP...how about you buy a high priced DECPC 433ST and some
    60 days later they drop the price 20-25%. Now you might think a refund
    or credit is in order right, wrong!
    
    I was told too bad! 
    
    Now in my job in Sales Support if we said that to a "real " customer
    they would pack up the machine and send it back or get a refund of the
    difference. But we are not "real" customers.
    
    Frank
    (getting the boxes out and packing it up)

    I suspect that if you bought such a machine from, say, Joe's Clone
    Computers, he'd tell you to go pound sand too.
    
    I've never tried it with the likes of DELL, ZEOS, etc.. but when prices
    are spiraling downward, you pays your money and takes your chances.
    
    Especially after 60 days..!
    
    ...tom

    
    ref: 40
    
             Yep  your right.........

    
    
    	Not that this is much consolation, but...
    
    	I think many of the delivery problems stem from the agreement that
    	DEC has with Tandy.  Under the current agreement, we can only order
    	pc's from tandy once/quarter.  DEC puts in the "quarterly" order, 
    	and we don't get another shot for 90days.  We needed hundreds of
    	Tandy beasts for DECworld, and still couldn't influence the "90
    	day rule"...ended up using tigers (unannounced at the time) to meet
    	the demand.  The whole situation didn't make much sense, but then
    	again, that applies to alot these days...
    
    
    	Jim
    

    
    	Wow!	This must be some new abberation of JIT - JOQ 
    (Just Once a Quarter).
    
    	Surely you must be talking aout _models_ rather than quantity.  
    In the PC business, a 'quarter' is a lifetime!
       
    :^)
    JN
    
    

    re:.46
    Get your facts straight...I was very involved in the whole Tandy 
    business from the very beginning until about 6 months ago.  We placed 
    orders at a minimum monthly (for a while every 2 weeks..) and shipped 
    directly on a daily basis.  I doubt we are doing something different 
    now.   
    
    

    
    
    	re: facts...
    
    	Well, I don't know where the breakdown was, but I had
    responsibility for ordering all of the h/w used at Decworld.  All  
    orders were processed through IEG.  We had a requirement for 125
    425c's and almost as many 325c's.  I was told by IEG (and we pushed
    back on the issue) that because that "quarter's order" had already
    shipped, we would not be able to get another shipment until April 3,
    which would have been far to late.  
    
    	I DO believe there was a change in the Tandy agreement which
    brought this about, but I'm not sure what date that was implemented...
    possibly since you left, don't know.  But the problem was escalated
    up through the chain, and we were told that DEC would pay a penalty
    for operating outside of it's current contract with Tandy.  

    Has anyone received their Lotus Smart Suite yet?  If so, how long did
    it take once you got your pc?  I called them up after I got the pc, and
    they (pcbydec, my friends) said they can't give status on software.
    
    At least my system works fine, I love it, it's killer.
    
    bob

    Mine came a week or less after the system.
    
    BTW, This horse is being busily flogged to death in CAM3::EMPPURPRO,
    numerous (most :-) topics.