Conference 7.286::digital

    
    I also read that reply from DECworld.  It seemed a little like blaming
    the messenger for bad news.  The way I read it, and it may be over-
    simplified but, If I was in the business of selling whistles and I sold
    over a hundred thousand, I'd be bragging about it to the world. 
    Perhaps there just was no "good news."

    In the area of networks (I am a network consultant and network partner)
    the number of DECnet licences, Ethernet ports, etc. is frequently
    distributed to field people such as myself. In fact, the memos clearly
    state that I am encouraged to share the number with customers. And I
    do. With every opportunity.
    
    You can argue about the validity of the numbers if you want. I ain't
    got the time.
    
    Gene.
    
    PS. The spelling and grammar errors in this note WILL NOT be corrected
    by the author. For the person who was complaining, in a previous note,
    that such writing "irritated" him - hit NEXT UNSEEN and move along.
    pal. Sheeesh.

	If I were a customer I'd like to know. In fact if that information
	wasn't given to me I'd be inclined to take my business elsewhere.

	Most people ask for references when having work contracted on
	their home why should a customer not ask for references/units sold
	when contracting for several thousand to million dollar service or 
	product ?


							Mike
							----

    That is a question which is to be deflected to the product manager
    barring explicit instructions to the contrary. As an engineer, there
    are a *lot* of things that I know that I'm not at liberty to discuss
    even with a fellow employee.
    
    Please don't shoot the messenger; I thankfully managed to avoid
    DECworld service this year, but I have been on booth duty at shows
    before. I've never been allowed to answer a question like "How many of
    X have you sold".
    
    ...tom

I may not have made it clear in my description of the interaction between me 
and the DECworld staffer, but it was not only the fact that the person would 
not provide the information, it was his attitude and manner that bothered me 
more than anything else.

Anyone who was assigned to the DECworld floor should have been totally geared 
toward presenting a professional, cooperative, helpful attitude to customers 
AND field personnel. After looking at my badge and seeing that I was from
Digital Sales Support, the person in question (yes, from Engineering) conveyed
a "Don't bother me" attitude. 

Please consider the following scenarios (DWS = DECworld XXX Booth Staffer):

Me:	My customer would like to know how many XXX license we have sold so
	that he can feel comfortable that his business isn't the only one
	relying on XXX.

Scenario 1:

DWS:	We don't give out that sort of information, go away.

Scenario 2:

DWS:	Gee, I'm not sure we can release that information to a customer.
	The XXX Product manager is right over there, let's go ask her.

IS SCENARIO 2 TOO MUCH TO ASK FROM OUR EXHIBITION FLOOR STAFFERS FOR OUR 
PREMIER MARKETING EVENT? I think not. And there is virtually nothing we won't 
release under a PID, which I mentioned my customer would sign, if necessary.

At a minimum, I would have liked to been treated as I feel I treat others 
when they come to me for help. I've tried to put the incident out of my mind, 
but the more I think about it, and I realize its an isolated incident, the more
concerned and disappointed I get about our company in general.

Jim

p.s.: After posting the original note, the Technology Captain for the DECworld 
      floor contacted me to follow-up on this incident.

p.p.s.: XXX is a network-related product.

	re .5:

	Jim, thanks for making it clear that you were criticising the
	attitude of the person you asked for sales figures, rather than
	the policy. I am sure we all agree with your point of view.

	However, I would like to focus this topic on the question of
	whether we should give information like numbers of licenses sold
	to customers, prospective customers, the press, etc.

	So far we have heard a couple of people say that it seems to make
	sense to do so, and one engineer say that there is a policy which
	forbids doing this.

	Can anyone point us to that policy? Any other points of view?

	/Tom

    
    MPOV [my point of view]: This question seems to have a common thread
    through (YB)� (You-Bet-Your-Business) situations. When a company looks
    into a mega-dollar transaction processing system, for example, there is
    always a fear on their part that they are pushing the envelope for the
    product. The more sophisticated questions is usually something like,
    "Can you show me a customer that's using the xxx feature in a 24x7 shop
    for inventory control, preferably in this configuration?" But certainly
    a reasonable (if simplistic) variation on this theme is, "Just how many
    customers use this puppy?"
    
    (Let me add my voice to the condemnation of the DECworld snit. Take
    names. Kick butt.)
    

    
    Out of morbid curiosity, what *did* the Technology Captain say about
    the incident at the DECworld exhibit?  Isn't it just possible that
    the number of licenses or sales of new products *is* company confid-
    ential information.  Just asking.
    
    Also, Jim, if you knew the staff person at the booth was an engineer,
    why would you think he/she would have access to what on the face
    seems to be sales or marketing information anyway.
    
    So.  If there is a policy of secrecy regarding licenses or products,
    let's make sure we get the right names.
    
    /mike

Re:        <<< Note 1903.8 by QBUS::M_PARISE "Southern, but no comfort" >>>
                             -< License to spill >-

    
>    Out of morbid curiosity, what *did* the Technology Captain say about
>    the incident at the DECworld exhibit?  Isn't it just possible that
>    the number of licenses or sales of new products *is* company confid-
>    ential information.  Just asking.
 
The Technology Captain called me and said she was concerned and appalled at 
the incident I described and wanted to follow-up on it. I provided information 
so she could do that.

And according to the other 3 people at the DECworld XXX exhibit I asked the
same question of (one of whom was the XXX Product Manager), this information
is not only available, but they provided it enthusiastically! You've missed 
my earlier comments: if the staffer did not think that information was public 
knowledge, do you think he should just blow me off? He could have easily 
brought me over to the Product Manager who was nearby.
   
>    Also, Jim, if you knew the staff person at the booth was an engineer,
>    why would you think he/she would have access to what on the face
>    seems to be sales or marketing information anyway.
 
I guess I'm not putting the right image of this encounter in your minds. I 
walk up to the XXX exhibit. This was day 1 or 2 of DECworld. There are people 
milling around. A gentleman with his back to me is working at a PC, but 
appears to be a booth staffer (which he was). Guy in suit, no beanie with
propeller :-). Anyway, I walk up and ask him the question. Sorry, I don't
care what organization the guy was from; if he was a DECworld exhibit floor
staffer he had some very clearcut responsibilities around attitude. If he did
not know the answer or think it could be released, then he could have easily
found someone who would know. I did within 1 minute of ending my frustrating
encounter... within 4 feet of the gentlemen in question. 

>    So.  If there is a policy of secrecy regarding licenses or products,
>    let's make sure we get the right names.

I know of no such policy. Digital publically announces and celebrates when the
n thousandth VAX is sold. I have asked the same question of a number of
Product Management people recently and they have provided the figures 
without hesitation. There may be products for which we do not want to
release such figures, but I'm not aware of them.

Regards,

Jim

    FWIW, in my 13 years with the company, half in the field and half in
    Engineering, it has always been the de facto policy NOT to release the
    number of units shipped of any product without prior approval from
    product management.  We don't release such information lightly.
    It's easy to forget this, though.
    
    This is not a comment on the attitude problem, just what I know has
    always been the standard operating procedure in the U.S. regarding
    all products, licenses or otherwise.
    
    tim