Conference 7.286::digital

    
     When was her 15 year service date?? It may have just taken the
    "system" six months to send it to her. (My 10 year certificate
     came in the middle of my 11th year)

    
    	Karen, my buddy got his 10 year award from personnel along
    	with his TFSO paperwork on his check-out day!  
    
    	The document means nothing, I trashed mine the day I got it.
    	It has no meaning, no value, no sincerity.
    

On the other hand, one might look at it as at least some token of appreciation
for the 15 years she did give Digital, although I am sure I would not 
appreciate the token much in such a situation.

    
    
    .3
    
    	Methinks you look at the world thru BULLSH*T colored glasses.
    
    	It's market hype, no more no less.
    
    	rth

    A little over four years ago, I received an unmarked letter from
    Utah, sent bulk mail, containing a form letter listing the choices
    that I had for my twenty year service award.  I almost threw it
    in the wastebasket, thinking it was junk mail.

    Do they still do it that way?

    Chuck

    
    
    
    	.5  yup
    
    

re: .7
    
>    Do you know why this happens?  
    
     Why what happens?

       a. 15 year employees are TFSO'd
       b. They receive recognition of 15 years of service on the day
          they leave
       c. A third party handles the awards selection and distribution

>    It cost DEC over million/year for using NON-Digital MIS product.

     What non-Digital products, who is using it, what would/could
     it be replaced with, how much would it cost to replace it.

>    This may be the evidence of what they've accomplished.

     Who or Whom, is 'they'?

    Wow, so much ingratitude.  
    
    I sort of like it when my boss pops into my office to say "good job" or
    "keep up the good work".  Maybe that's what the corporation's telling
    an employee at their 5-10-15 year anniversaries.
    
    I'm curious, what beyond a letter and a token gift would you expect?

    
    
    .9  Whoa!   Big difference between having your boss stop in and say
    	"Nice Job!", (that's sincere, that's gratitude, that's nice), 
    	and a timer going off every 5 years to remind someone/something 
    	to send you a thank you card.
    
    	Which would you prefer...  your boss stopping in from time to
    	time to tell you that you did a good job and he appreciates it, 
    	or the "Certificate of Appreciation" every 5 years. 
    
	I don't want a "token gift" as you so rightly call it.  But, 
    	let me also say, the dinner is/was a nice thing.  I felt that the
    	speaker was thoughtful, sincere, enjoyable.  It wasn't as good for 
    	the soul as one or two sincere "Good/Nice Job" comments by someone
    	that really knows who I am and appreciates my efforts.
    

    re: .9
    
    Perhaps you would feel as good if your boss decided to automate the
    "attaboy" or "attagirl" by submitting a batch job to flash a generic
    message on your screen at the appropriate time.
    
    The recognition gifts have about as much meaning and warmth as mail
    addressed to "occupant".  

We employ over 100000 people.  If we can stay out of the business of publishing
our own glossy catalog of tie-tacs and keeping a tie-tac inventory, by cost-
effectively hiring a company in Utah to do the shipping and mailing, then it's
the right thing to do.
				/AHM

	I received my 10 year certificate today. My manager made a big
	thing of giving it to me in front of the rest of the group. OK, so
	maybe I please easy but it was nice. If it means nothing to you fine
	have it your way. But for someone who for the first few years of
	his career dispared of ever finding a company to stay at for a real
	career hitting 10 years felt rather good to me.

	So the certificate is no big deal. And I admit that I was more
	excited about the change to my vacation time. But the 10 year
	certificate will replace the 5 year one that's been on top of my
	dresser for the last 5 years.

			Alfred

    When I got my 15-year certificate my supervisor presented it to me at a
    group meeting, with everyone in the cost center present.  The presen-
    tation was more important than the certificate.
        John Sauter

    When I got my 5 year certificate, my ex-manager (2 years previous),
    came to my office with the certificate, saying he'd had it sitting
    on his desk for the past couple of years...I was IMPRESSED.
    Ron

    
    
    at least you got one..

    I also received my 5 year certificate at a staff meeting. It was
    presented by my manager. I was very appreciative of the fact. The gift
    was another story. While I am pleased that DEC goes to the trouble of
    giving you a gift at anniversary time, mine was handled very poorly. I
    chose a pen and pencil set and received a belt buckle. The buckle is
    absolutely useless. I was given a time limit to correct the mistake,
    that's OK, retail does that too. I was told I would have to go through
    my personel rep to do this. I told her about it. She said to get the
    paperwork and material together and to fill out form mumblepfitz, get
    the package to her and she'd handle it. It's 3 years later, she's no
    longer with DEC. I never saw her again. No big deal. I wasn't anxious
    for anything on the list anyway. I just didn't want to make it seem
    like I was snubbing them. They did go to the effort and it wasn't the
    company's fault that the rep didn't do her job. 
    
    Didn't go to the dinner. It was held in another site, at lunch time, in
    their cafeteria, and I only have 30 minutes for lunch, don't drive, and
    had to choose from the standard cafeteria menu anyway. The site is
    several miles from my site. Couldn't get there, order a burger, eat and
    listen to speeches and make it back to my site in 30 minutes, on foot.
    Heck, I  can barely make it to my own caf and back and eat in 30
    minutes.
    
    Phil

    I received my 10 year certificate about six months late, in the mail. 
    The site team hosted an evening dinner to which a guest and I were
    invited.  No one from my organization was there and therefore they
    'forgot' to mention me.  It was embarassing.   My boss NEVER mentioned
    anything about my 10 year service date.  Boy do I feel 'valued'!  
    
    

    I'm a little late getting back in here, but I think some of you
    are missing the point.
    
    My friend was TFSO'd 9 July 1991.....her 15 year anniversary date
    was 10 January 1992, she received the certificate in the mail shortly
    after January 10th!!
    
    The more we thought about it she didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
    I suggested she contact the woman whose name was on the letter that
    accompanied the certificate and ask her if her "gift" for her 15th
    anniversary was that "package" she was handed last July 9th :-)
    
    The issue here isn't gifts....tie tacks, barometers etc.  Good grief,
    anyone not aware of TFSOs must have been in a coma for the last
    2 years.  One would think this would have been an area that would
    have been triple checked; but since someone already mentioned a friend
    who was handed their certificate the same day they were TFSO'd.....that
    pretty much sums it all up :-( 
    
    K
    

    re: string
    
    Perhaps it would be a good idea to turn this into a positive by
    submitting a DELTA suggestion that Personnel look into this seemingly 
    heartless practice.  It may just be one of those areas that Digital has
    overlooked while developing TFSO.  I'm sure nobody sat down and said
    "let's do this to further devalue folks and make them feel REALLY bad".
    
    As I've said before, I hope Digital never gets *real* good at routine
    usage of TFSO as a management tool.

    Re: .20
    
    Me thinks your talking about the old DEC when they would not have had
    to think about this topic as an after thought and personnel was
    available to help DEC personnel and not just be a propaganda machine
    spouting their rhetoric for the managers.
    
    Regards
    Disgruntled
    

    	I think the person mentioned in .0 has a right to be pissed.
    Not because they got a late certificate, but simply because they
    were TOFU'd (or TSFO, or whatever the hell it is called).

    	On the other hand, I look at those five year certificates as
    milestones.  It is sort of an achievement to survive this place
    that many years, and I think those certificates should be viewed
    as medals of endurance (kind of like running a marathon or something).
    All I know is that if I were about to hit my 15th year and was TOFU'd
    right before I made it, I'd be pissed if I *didn't* recieve that
    brass ring (belt buckle or whatever).  My biggest fear in life is
    that of living until the day before my 100th birthday and dying
    right before I make the big three digits!  What a let down that
    would be!

    	To summarize, I feel the sentiments of .0 are somewhat misplaced.
    They should be pissed about getting TOFU'd just before making the
    15th year milestone, but should be proud of getting the certificate
    anyway.

    				    -davo

    I don't care if we've got a million damned employees, the sanitized
    process used to "award" the tacky gifts is disgraceful.  It should be
    looked into and corrected immediately.  Surely we can save money
    somewhere else, such as eliminated a couple valuing differences topics.
    
    One point of lite I'm aware of though is that when a project specialist
    in my group was TSFO'd just days after getting her five year
    certificate....she threw the damned thing at her manager...Beautiful!!!
    
    The whole thing is about on the same level as the annual
    turkeyforturkies fiasco.....also demeaning.

    re: .23  Dick
    
    Hey, welcome back  :-)
    
    
    re:  Cold, impersonal distribution mechanism for gifts
    
    ...is the primary reason that I've never accepted one.  For the 5-year
    prize, some internal bureaucrat literally harassed me for weeks,
    wouldn't accept a "No, thanks" response (apparently there was no
    such box to check off on her form), sent mail and called over and
    over again, and then finally, in desperation, just sent me one of
    the prizes at random via interoffice mail.  I sent it back to her.
    
    It's probably folks like me who provoked them into changing the
    procedure into a "Look what you've won!" form letter from some
    unknown external company!  And now it's even easier to blow the
    thing off... just circular-file the form letter, and you never
    hear from them again.  I got more perverted pleasure from manually
    shredding the form letter and lovely brochure than I ever would've
    gotten from the prize itself.
    
    I don't think anyone should ever get prizes just for warming a
    chair for "x" number of years.  Someone who's filled in ten years'
    worth of crossword puzzles is just as valued as someone who's
    saved the company millions of dollars.  At least the puzzle-solver
    gets a shiny new pen for the next ten years' worth of puzzles.
    
    Chris

    I always turn prizes over to my wife ... well, except prizes like the
    pen I got for working with the DEC WANcontroller 620!  I'm keeping that
    'cause it MEANS something to me!  :)
    
    Steve

I worked 9 years at Texas Instruments before coming to DEC. They were almost 
identical in their anniversary recognition system. Most people felt pretty 
silly getting a genuine 4k gold layered tie tac with simulated pearl. However,
to me the fact that someone stood up and said, "Thanks for spending the 5 years 
with us," was pretty nice, even if it did require an automated notice from 
personnel. I don't expect my boss to take notice of my years ticking by so much
as I expect him to notice what I accomplish (assuming I *do* accomplish 
something ;^) ). Probably a handshake would suffice for most people in place of
a gift. But if we were to eliminate the recognition entirely, you can bet
people would get upset. They would complain, "I worked at that place for 
years and they never even noticed." The fact that they do notice is nice. The 
fact that there are so many people to keep track of that it becomes an 
unfeeling, dehumanized procedure is unfortunate.

    
     I am glad this came up I was supposed to get a Belt Buckle, at 5 year
    from what I understand from these notes I miss my lunch, buckle and 
    certificate about 5 years ago.

If I could think of a more human way to handle this in an organization
the size of Digital/US, I might be upset at the "impersonal" way in
which it's handled. In many other Digital locations, particularly those
outside the US, the process is much more personal, because the
organizations are much smaller and more personal in all other ways,
too. A five- or ten-year dinner and award in a small country is a nice
affair, and most people feel pretty good about it. In the US, I don't
see how it could be much different from the way it is, so I'm just glad
it's done at all.

I hope I still work for Digital for my 15th (and 20th)!

re: .28
>                         -< constructive suggestions? >-

There should be an option for you to have whatever amount of money gets spent
on your prize to go to a charity instead (if you want).  That way the people
who don't want a prize would have a better alternative.
									- paul

RE: .27:
    
>     I am glad this came up I was supposed to get a Belt Buckle, at 5 year
>    from what I understand from these notes I miss my lunch, buckle and 
>    certificate about 5 years ago.

You don't happen to work for Educational Services, do you?

I worked for Ed Services (in BUO, the world headquarters of Ed Services) for 7
years, when Del Lippert was head of Ed Services.  I transferred to Engineering
(in ZKO) for another 4 years.  When my 10 year anniversary came, I got the 
form letter in the mail, decided on the pen-and-pencil set, and received same 
in short order.

In a group meeting (120 people) I was publically awarded my 10 year 
certificate with some nice words from my manager as to my contributions in
the time I had been there.  During the presentation, my manager said words
to the effect of "now you can place it next to your 5 year certificate".
I said "huh?  You get one of these for 5 years?".

In checking with other people who were in Ed Services at the time, no one
that I am aware of got 5 or 10 year awards.  We were not even aware that
Digital did such things.  Once I joined Engineering, my joke has been that
"No, I didn't work for Digital at 5 years, I worked for Ed Services..."

-- Ken Moreau

    Ref: .30
    
        No,  I work for MFG.

    I agree with most of the responses that the timing could be better. 
    But length of time in any company, organization and relationship does
    not guarentee a lifetime 'commitment' by either party.   Employees and
    spouses leave on their own accord just as companies look at the 'bottom
    line' and decide what relationships they have to improve or end.
    I just received my 5 year certificate and gift and am pleased to have
    been part of the company for that period of time.  However, I may get
    the package one of these days and don't feel that the company owes me
    anything.  They pay me and I give them my best effort - a relationship.

    Did I miss something?
    
    The person that recieved the 15 year certificate in .0 actually never
    reached that milestone!  It was absurd to send her the certificate, and
    simply shows how poorly we integrate our own functions....  I guess we
    are too busy doing a bang up job for our customers.
    
    How embarrassing!
    
    pH

    Is it possible due to the length of service the person in .0 completed
    prior the July TFSO, that her actual last date of termination from
    the company was sometime after her 15 year anniversary date.  Under
    the TFSO packages, your last day of service on the company books is
    not your last day in the office.

    Thank you .33 you caught the point I was trying to make.
    
    My friend had been around the company long enough to know that a
    "group" award ceremony is usually held for 10 years and above.  For
    my 10 year....there were people who were celebrating 10,15,20 & 25 years,
    etc....many field organizations combine the award dinner so that
    just one dinner is held per year.
    
    *IF* she had celebrated 15 years at or before the time she was
    TFSO'd, she would have understood the time lag in the certificate
    reaching her; she might have been a little dismayed and shrugged
    it off.
    
    Her 15 year anniversary date WAS January 10, 1992....she received the
    certificate in her home mail January 16th.  Her feelings were 
    exactly as you stated; WHY send a certificate supposedly recognizing
    a milestone that she had NOT reached at the time of her TFSO?
                             ~~~
    Re:  last.....I thought your last day of service on the company books
    was the day you cashed out that final check - for her that was some
    time in September, 1991.  We mulled your scenario ourselves, but
    thought it was more than a little tacky and definitely misguided to
    think someone would appreciate receiving the certificate 6 months
    after the fact.  After talking to an accountant today and seeing 
    how much she's going to owe Uncle Sam for 1991.....she pondered why
    they couldn't just stretch out all those weeks of pay due...then she
    wouldn't be taking such a tax hit for the bracket that lump sum 
    threw her into :-}
    
    We ARE supposed to be a computer company, right?  Our facility is
    going through the current TFSO right now.....most of us are trying to be
    sensitive to everyone because we don't want to add to anyone's misery.
    
    A letter came with the ceritifcate; the certificate was mailed directly
    from Parker Street.  Someone had to do a pull from some database
    to do the mailing <---- this is where common sense should have kicked
    in.
    
    
    K
    

    Was her package amount based on 14 years or 15 years? Seems as if the
    company thinks she was here for 15 that should be the TFSO amount.
    
    It might get their attention, anyway.
    
    John H.

    -1
    
    From all calculations it was based on 14 years, plus vacation time
    unused, etc.
    
    Considering the hit she is now taking on her taxes; I don't think
    she'll fight to be considered for an additional 6 months of service.
    
    The way her accountant explained it.....the taxes that were taken out
    of the final check were at the rate that was normally deducted from her
    weekly paycheck.....since her final check was in September, the IRS
    is treating this as though she didn't pay taxes for 1 quarter of the
    year.
    
    She started working within a week at Avnet, add that salary to the
    buyout package and that put her over $90,000 as income for 1991.....
    in a bracket that may be technically accurate, but not a true indi-
    cative of her normal income.
    
    Maybe instead of offering folks help with resumes as they leave....it
    might be nice to offer some tax assistance.  My friend is no dummy,
    she called corporate for assistance with her IRA and 401K;
    unfortunately the person who was to provide assistance with these
    issues gave her inaccurate info regarding the 401K and that 
    exacerbated the tax problem further.
    
    Karen
    
    
    

    When marginal tax rates went up to 70% (a few years ago) people could
    file for "income averaging" (schedule G??) when they got an unusually
    large income one year.
    
    Since many of us are already in the 28-31% range (top bracket) is
    doesn't make sense to income average any more (it doesn't make a 
    difference if it doesn't change your marginal tax bracket).
    
    r

re: .37,

>    She started working within a week at Avnet, add that salary to the
>    buyout package and that put her over $90,000 as income for 1991.....

    	Excuse me, but I seem to be losing the ability to feel sorry for
    this individual (that was the point of this note wasn't it?).  I mean,
    sure it's a bummer that she lost her job at DEC and ok, so maybe the
    15 year certificate was bumbled a bit, but at least she has a job now.
    There are a lot of people who I'm sure would love to have her problems.
    It would be nice to think that other terminated DECies ("DECterms?")
    manage to land another job within a week of getting their final DEC
    paycheck too.  Sounds like her wound should heal pretty fast - salt
    or no salt.  I'll reserve my bleeding heart for those who aren't so
    lucky.

    				  -davo

    davo -
    
    She isn't looking for someone to feel sorry for her; she wanted
    accurate answers to questions when she asked those questions of
    the people she was directed to (in the TFSO package).  I still
    think a little consideration over the service recognition isn't
    too much to ask......some very sloppy handling of a lot of issues.
    
    FWIW, she just came back from a 6 day round-up held by Avnet...
    Avnet has picked up a lot of ex-DEC reps.  My friend booked one
    million dollars worth of *DEC* equipment for Avnet.  She had the
    dubious distinction of sitting with a former DEC rep who was
    so embittered by his treatment at TFSO time that he was bragging
    about his one million dollars of *another* vendor's equipment sold.
    He commented he'll recommend DEC equipment in a solution as only
    a last resort - is this how we want former employees to feel/act?
    
    Distributors pay cash on the barrel; that goes along way toward
    your salary  and my salary.  She got a 6620 installed in this area before
    any current DEC sales rep......got precious little commission off it
    because DEC and Avnet wanted a foot in the door at this account.
    
    ATDs are business partners, they've scooped up many former reps.  A
    lot of DEC jobs could depend on systems sold thru ATDs, so it might
    be nice if we could prevent any more poop from being shoveled down
    the chute at the former employees who trying to maintain a positive
    attitude towards DEC.
    
    K
    

re: .40,
    
>    She isn't looking for someone to feel sorry for her; she wanted
>    accurate answers to questions when she asked those questions of
>    the people she was directed to (in the TFSO package).

    	I was mainly referring to the title of the note.  I guess I'm
    just a little envious of the resulting salary you quoted that's all.

    				   -davo

    The $90K was the total of wages to date at DEC (thru SEP), her wages at
    Avnet, and her lump sum distribution.....
    
    Not the same thing as making a $90K salary!
    
    
    For what it is worth, we consistently bungle the simplest of
    administrative tasks.  This is just one example.  It makes it very
    difficult for a Digital employee to defend and respect the company!
    
    
    And to compound the issue further:
    
    Ask a headhunter what they think of our sales force and commission
    plan...
    
    Ask a software vendor what they think of our technical support...
    
    Ask wallstreet how we have handled the layoffs...
    
    We simply cannot get anything done lately!
    
    

    .42 hit it.......when you roll everything up it puts her into the
    $90K bracket, that isn't a realistic scenario.  She wasn't even
    close to being in a $90K salary bracket; but that is how she will
    be taxed for 1991.
    
    Her TFSO packet contained names of people who were to assist her
    with any questions she might have.  She has been given inaccurate
    info on insurance options; she was told she would have a specific
    amount of time to roll-over her $401K account and made crucial
    decisions made on the info relayed to her.  Now an accountant says
    the IRS will not allow her to do what she had been assured she could.
    
    For those of you in here who have now been hit, please have someone
    knowledgeable go over the tax burden that might befall you next year.
    The process is difficult enough without having someone tell you next
    year that you owe the IRS a 4 digit sum of money.
    
    Karen