Conference 7.286::digital

    I think Long-Term Disability is just what it says....you stay on it
    until you are 65, and then switch over to Medicare.
    
    It's insurance you and I pay for directly, and I know of no real reason
    why someone could not be on it for 20 years.
    
    All this is off the top of my head, but is my understanding of what LTD
    is for.

    Guess I should have read your question a bit more carefully.
    
    Broadly, if you have been out more than 26 weeks (which means you
    would be in LTD), you can return to work with a doctor's OK.
    
    Your manager will try to assist you to return to your old assignment
    or try to find an appropriate alternative.  If after 13 weeks of
    best effort there is no job match, the employee will be terminated
    and will be eligible for 8-weeks pay in lieu of notice.
    
    It's all in PP&P, section 4.09

    
     Gee I know of a person who has been on LTD for about 2 years due to
    stress. This person must be a real wreck to be out that long.

    That's gotta be the worst of both worlds:  stressed out because they
    may never come back and stressed out because they may have to come back.
    
    Steve

    I'd really appreciate the info. 
    
    Regards,

                       <<< Note 1706.0 by LACV01::PHAM >>>

>     and are you still consider a DECI after more than 2 years on LTD?
 
	Yes, you still retain your badge and are still considered an employee
	by the company.

Jim

    i know a guy that has worked for tpl maybe six months and then he went
    on ltd. he has been on ltd for at least 10 years. he was out one time
    for two years and came back to work and worked for two days and back on
    ltd. he still is a digital employee and he gets his certificate of
    recognition for every five years of service. this guy has been caught
    doing work as landscaping and building maintanance person but the doctor
    protects him and nothing that digital does can get him off the ltd.
                                                                     

    There was a good editorial in the Washington Times this past weekend
    with regards to the abuse of disability.
    
    
    Mike

    There was also a good segment on "60 Minutes" this past week about the
    same subject (abuse of disability).

    Can't "someone" get a picture of this "disabled" person?
    
    

    The anecdotal evidence of LTD abusers falls into the same category as
    welfare cheaters driving Cadillacs, homeless people who love living on
    the streets, government workers on the take or putting in 20 hour
    weeks, unscrupulous lawyers driving up the cost of medical care with
    frivolous malpractice suits: interesting for conversation, fodder for
    the talk shows, subjects of shocked newspaper exposes, and cheap easy
    targets for politicians looking for sound-bite solutions to complex
    problems.   
    
    Of course such abuses exist but in numbers far less significant to the
    whole than such fascinating stories might lead one to believe. 
    
    Does anyone have knowledge of the percentage of dollars paid out on LTD
    that go to illegitimate claimants? I'll bet it's less than 5%.
    
    Almost universally, attempts at reform aimed at catching the relative
    handful of egregious abusers result in screwing with thousands of
    legitimate users and leaving the stinkers untouched.
    
    John H.

    I seem to recall that long-term disability insurance was an option, for
    which some amount is deducted from our paycheck every week.  
    

    Yep, LTD is an option for which I pay $6.09 per week, not cheap.  There
    has been some changes to the plan, namely who manages the people out on
    leave.  Seems that the new company gets better results, i.e., get more
    people off disability.  One other point, if your out for mental or
    addiction problems, the plan only last for 2 year. After that your
    terminated from employment.
    

                    <<< Note 1706.13 by GUCCI::RPARSHLEY >>>

>    Yep, LTD is an option for which I pay $6.09 per week, not cheap.  

	Remember that LTD is insurance, that's what you are paying for.

	LTD is NOT a benefit, although we do get a slightly cheaper
	group rate on the premiums.

Jim

    I agree, LTD is insurance we pay for.....but isn't headcount tied
    up when someone is out?  I think it's something about DEC must offer
    you a job when/if you are ready to return; DEC doesn't have to
    guarantee you the same job.  In this era of downsizing, doesn't seem
    fair if an able-bodied worker must hit the bricks because someone
    has to be carried on the books <---- if this person is abusing the
    system.
    
    A local Atlanta TV station ran a series on insurance companies who
    got fed up with the abuse.....they did get several people on camera.
    The most priceless picture was of a man (with supposed severe back
    problems) not bothering to open the door, but leap into his
    convertible......the insurance company dropped him and notified his
    employer :-)
    
    K
    
    
    

    
    	I don't read that anyone mentioned that you can be "downsized"
    while on LTD.  It was sort of implied in the old language, but the new
    language of the policy says it pretty much up front.  Being on LTD does
    not mean you are immune from layoffs.
    
    sean
    

    <<< Note 1706.16 by SWAM2::LYNCH_SE "I bolted through a closing door" >>>

    
>Being on LTD does
>    not mean you are immune from layoffs.
 
	The way I read 4.09 is that it would take a plant closing
	to be affected. What is unclear is whether a layoff under these
	circumstances would affect your benefits. I don't think it would.

Jim

    	I have, unfortunatly, talked with managers who have "downsized"
    employees on LTD.  Also, a person from corporate human resources told
    me the same thing last year.  When I read the new verbage (is it 4.09?)
    I sort of said "Ah Ha!", there is the out.  It seems unfortunate.
    
    sean

    RE: .18
     
    It is true that employees on LTD can be "downsized", at least under the
    current rules.  This happened here in our office.
    

If you are "downsized"  when on LTD, do you lose your
LTD benefits? 

>> If you are "downsized"  when on LTD, do you lose your
>> LTD benefits?
    
    I honestly don't know.  I've heard the question asked and the best
    answer I've gotten is that you continue to collect LTD benefits for as
    long as you are eligible, i.e. until you get well, but when that ends
    you no longer have a job to go back to.
    
    Perhaps someone else knows that answer?
    
    Larry
     
    

    
    	A friend of mine, a DECcie, was "downsized" while on LTD.
    	So it is indeed a fact!  He was given the choice.... to take
    	the package (x number of weeks of salary/medical, after which
    	both cease) or remain on LTD (without the package) for as long
    	as his doctor feels is necessary.
    

    
    	My references were, I believe, downsized without continued LDT
    payments.  I don't know if they got a "package" or not.
    
    sean

    <<< Note 1706.23 by SWAM2::LYNCH_SE "I bolted through a closing door" >>>

    
>    	My references were, I believe, downsized without continued LDT
>    payments.  I don't know if they got a "package" or not.
 
	I'm confused by this. LTD is insurance that, as far as I can
	determine, has nothing to do with DEC, other than your PSA
	gives you the forms to fill out.

	The LTD agreement is with Prudential Insurance Company. DEC will
	not become involved in disputes with Prudential, saying that LTD
	is a matter between you and the insurance company that does not 
	involve DEC.

	LTD payments, again as far as I can tell, do NOT come from DEC.
	Why would a layoff change the agreement with Prudential? The same
	would apply to Social Security disability benefits, you wouldn't
	expect those to change due to a layoff, would you?

Jim

	The LTD in the UK is covered by the pension plan, so only those that
	contribute to Digitals pension plan are covered for LTD (unless they 
	take out a separate income plan or dread disease policy).

	This clearly states that the cover continues until the age of 60,
	or "retirement, death, or you get better", whichever is the earlier.

	It also covers your payments to the pension in addition to the LTD 
	benefits (which is two thirds of your basic salary).	

	Heather

	Does anyone know whether LTD (in the U.S.) is taxable or not?
	Is STD?

                <<< Note 1706.26 by TPSYS::FALOR "Ken Falor" >>>

>	Does anyone know whether LTD (in the U.S.) is taxable or not?
>	Is STD?


	For WC4s, STD is, LTD is not.

	Note that if your are receiving Social Security Disability
	(the folks at Prudential require you to file for these benefits)
	payments and you file a joint return and your total income
	is above a certain number, some of your SS benefits may be
	taxable.

Jim

    	General rule for determining if insurance payoff (e.g. LTD) is 
    	taxable:
    
    	If you paid AFTER tax money for insurance (whether it be
    	life, LTD, etc.,) the payoff is NOT taxable.
    
    	STD is taxed.

    Re .28:
    
    > General rule for determining if insurance payoff (e.g. LTD) is 
    > taxable:
    >
    > If you paid AFTER tax money for insurance (whether it be
    > life, LTD, etc.,) the payoff is NOT taxable.
    
    Hey, that could work to our advantage.  Let's say I pay Digital one
    after-tax dollar for an insurance policy.  The terms of this policy say
    that if something untoward should happen to me, like for example I find
    myself doing software engineering for Digital for about 40 hours a
    week, then Digital will pay me insurance money, in an amount just about
    equal to my current weekly salary.  Since I paid for the insurance
    policy with after-tax money, the payoff won't be taxable, right?  :-)
    
    
    				-- edp

    The TLAs run wild in this conference.
    
    Jamie.

    My 2 cents on LTD.
    
    I started at DEC in May of 1985 I was 22 years old, in September of
    1985 I was hit by a drunk drive.  I was not hurt seriously, though I
    was out on STD for 3 weeks.  But while I lay there recouperating I
    couldn't help but think, thank goodness I pay those extra few dollars a
    week.  Image being 22 and having a lifelong disability with only social
    security benefits to live on.
    
    Its worth it and I don't miss the few dollars a week - tax free or not 
    I'll keep it.
    
    Joyce

         <<< Note 1706.31 by ISLNDS::TOMAO "T-47 days and counting" >>>

>    Its worth it and I don't miss the few dollars a week - tax free or not 
>    I'll keep it.
 
	It's like any other insurance, it's essentially a wager between you
	and the insurance company. 

	I agree that LTD, considering the alternatives, is a good bet.

	However, dealing with Prudential leaves much to be desired.

Jim

    I returned from LTD a few months ago. During the time I was on LTD
    including the time I spent on a gradual back to work, I found
    Prudential to easy to deal with. In fact I was pleased both with how
    Prudential and Digital handled my LTD.
    
    It was also well worth the $$ I spend weekly for the coverage.
    
    

    
    Re: .32
    
    I second your vote.  Long before employment by Digital, I was in
    a serious car accident and was hospitalized for two and a half
    months and recuperating at home for several more months after that.
    Whatever the hassles of dealing with the insurance company it's
    minor compared to the hassle you'll have if you have to work on
    recovering AND worry about where your next meal is coming from.
    
    Steve
    

                     <<< Note 1706.33 by PENUTS::HOGLUND >>>

>In fact I was pleased both with how
>    Prudential and Digital handled my LTD.
 
	This has not been our experience. The difference may be that
	my wife (also a Deccie) is, and will be, permanently disabled
	for the rest of her life.

	We found that the company did zip in helping to resolve problems
	with Prudential (that's where the "it's insurance, not a benefit"
	quote came from). We also had to battle with Prudential when they
	deducted from my wife's checks BEFORE she had received her first
	payment from Social Security (note that the 2/3ds guarantee is the
	sum of BOTH SS and Prudential's payments). 

>    It was also well worth the $$ I spend weekly for the coverage.
 
	On this we agree.
   
Jim