Conference 7.286::digital

    Wierd, I am on some external companies mailing list, which DECdirect
    obviously bought (mis-spelt job title). I just got a flyer in the
    mail saying by decdirect catalog is waiting for me to fill in this form
    and return.
    
    q
    

    The latest ones I have came from our PC resource center (Albuquerque).
    
    Personal Computing Integration
    Software and Hardware Catalog     order # EC-K4261-69
    
    Decdirect Software Edition	      order # EB-K4422-78
    
    Check at the local Digital sales office...they usually have them in
    quantity (I hope...)
    
    Gil
    

    RE:.0
    Internal customers should order 3'rd party software that costs less
    than $1000 from DecDirect, 3'rd party software over $1000 from IEG.
    All software except 3'rd party from SSB.
    
    For a pretty complete description of the internal order process go into
    VTX with keyword IEG.

    
    
    	If your looking for software you can get just about anything off
    	the net. Just find the right notesfile or get on the proper 
    	distribution list.
    
    	For hardware that you can't get from IEG like printer covers
    	or terminal stands, check the DIAL conference. If they don't
    	have it and you can't get DECdirect to help without an official
    	out of the catalog part number I guess you'll either have to start 
    	wheeling and dealing with other groups like the good old days or
    	wait for someone with a better answer...
    
    	I can see it now an internal black market for DECdirect catalogs...
    
    
    						Mike
    						----

    I'm not sure why you want a software catalog anyway.  In the PC world,
    my experience has been that those catalogs are out of date as soon as
    (or before) they go to print.  Is there a notesfile/VTXinfobase that
    contains descriptions/names/partnumbers of the currently available
    software (notably, 3rd party PC packages) from DECdirect?
    
    Jon

    I was under the impression that we can no longer order from DECdirect? 
    Has anyone recently?  I tried a few months ago and my request was
    denied by the telephone clerk.... "no longer taking internal orders,
    company cutting back, blah, blah..."
    
    Paula

    I just ordered (and received) an item from DECDirect.  Perhaps it
    depends on which clerk answers the phone.
    
    On the other hand, my customer asked for a DECdirect Catalog, and has
    yet to recieve one.
    
    Some improvements are needed.

    I noticed memory for the VAX 9000 in the hardware edition.
    
    $400,000 item in Decdirect...  one wonders how many orders they have
    received so far for *that* item!  (We got a good chuckle out of it)
    
    Gil
    
    P.S. I, too, just ordered from DECdirect...fastship!
    

    re .7
    
    i worked on the DECdirect 800 line for 3 years. although my information
    is 18months old - i don't think this has changed.
    
    the reason it takes so long to get a catalog is that they are send by
    an inexpensive postage rate (bulk) so sometimes it takes a couple or
    three weeks.  but if its been longer than that have your customer (or
    you) call again and tell the operator that this is the 2nd (or
    whatever) request for a catalog.  this gets noted on the request
    paperwork.
    
    	hth - ann

RE:        <<< Note 1692.0 by GRANPA::TTAYLOR "fortress around my heart" >>>

>    How do we order DECdirect catalogs internally?  How do we order
>    software internally?  So many things have changed, yet no one
>    communicates to us how we are to do business day-to-day.  
    
Call DECdirect.  Tell them
you want a catalog.  Give them your home address.  Tell them you want
it for personal use when they ask what your company is.  When the thing
arrives take it to your office. 

John

    Hope this doesn't change in Europe - when you want to know the
    real latest part number for some SCO UNIX variant, or whatever,
    the UK DECdirect software catalogue seems the best place to go.
    Every order admin. contact and notes conference seems to give a
    different, conflicting, story...

    I currently work here at DDD and I hope this response clears up any
    confusion. There are three ways to obtain catalogs for inhouse use.
    1- Access by vtx by typing:  nest::order
    2- Access All in One by typing: order@nro
    3- Call dtn 234-4329. * If you use this method of ordering you must
    pick up the catalog at NRO.
    
    Options 1 and 2 must include the following: Name, badge #, cost center,
    mailstop, quantity needed, name or part number of catalog needed.
    
    Here is a list of part numbers of the most frequently requested
    catalogs.
    
    Decdirect hardware: EB-M4503-78
    Decdirect software: EB-K4422-78
    PC Integration:     EC-K4261-69
    Risc:               EB-K2820-78
    Software Doc:       EB-K2526-76
    
    Please keep in mind that the full line catalog carries most of our 
    products. The part numbers that are color coded in blue are available
    through local sales only. They are included in this catalog as a 
    reference for the field.
    
    Thanks, Ray Theil

>I hope this response clears up any confusion
>Access by vtx by typing: nest::order

How do you type "nest::order" to VTX?

/john

    Correction: Access by "vaxmail" not by vtx by typing nest::order.
    
    Thx, Ray

    
    If you want software from the SSB, you can use the following order
    form to place the order via e-mail.  (why would a deccie order sware
    rather than grab it on the net? :
    	1. it's not dec-engineered (e.g. DBASE IV for VMS)
    	2. you want the printed documentation
    	3. you want it on media 
    	4. 			)

    p.s. yer local library might carry the 'digital reference service'
    notebook set, which includes the DECdirect catalogs + all price lists +
    s.o.c.'s + spd books + etc. etc.
    
    here's the ssb form:
    

    
                           U.S. SOFTWARE SUPPLY BUSINESS
                                   WESTMINSTER MA
                            508-874-3023 OR DTN 241-3023
     
               PLEASE RETURN FORM TO WMOIS::SDCISO OR SDCISO @WMO
      
                      PLEASE FILE A COPY FOR FUTURE USE

    		    *** S.S.B. INTERNAL SOFTWARE ORDER FORM ***

      			    (REVISED ORDER FORM 1990)                      
    
    SHIP TO:
    
    ADDRESS:
    
    ADDRESS:
    
    CITY   : 			STATE:	    ZIP CODE:
    
    
    REQUESTER:                          LOCATION CODE: 	      COST CENTER: 
    
    BADGE #: 	      DTN/EXT:		   REQUESTED SHIP DATE:
    
    CHECK ONE OF THE FOLLOWING
    SHIP METHODS: 
                    BEST WAY          OR           OTHER
    			       
    CHECK LIST: HAVE YOU FILLED IN ALL REQUIRED INFORMATION?
    
    WARNING   : THIRD-PARTY SOFTWARE MAY BE SUBJECT TO ROYALTY EXPENSE WHICH 
                WILL BE CHARGED TO YOUR COST CENTER.  AN INTERNAL LICENSE 
                (1 PER CPU) MUST BE ORDERED FOR EACH SOFTWARE PRODUCT LISTED 
                ON THE QUARTERLY MEMO "REQUIRED INTERNAL LICENSE ORDERING", 
                SENT ELECTRONICALLY TO ALL U.S. COST CENTER MANAGERS.  FOR 
                MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT DCS ROYALTY ADMINISTRATION (SEE YOUR
                DEC DIRECTORY).
                IT IS AGAINST YOUR EMPLOYEE AGREEMENT TO REPRODUCE OR 
                TRANSFER SOFTWARE TO ANY ENTITY OUTSIDE OF Digital OR ANY 
                OTHER ORGANIZATION INSIDE OF Digital Equipment Corporation.
         
   		CHECK ONE:     CURRENT       OR    	ARCHIVE
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    |MODEL NUMBER |VERSION|            DESCRIPTION                   |QUANTITY|
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------





    

    re: .15
    
    > why would a deccie order sware rather than grab it on the net? :
    
    Some engineering groups have decided not to place their software on the
    net.  This forces all internal users to order it from the SSB.
    
    The reasons that I have been given were along the lines of making sure
    that the internal kits were not given to customers, as opposed to the
    software including 3rd party royalty issues.
    
    John

Ahhh Gi'day...�

    ...and they don't want to support the installation by internal people.

    A lot  of  products  not  on  the  net  are now there by people placing
    consolidated  CD's  in  areas  accessable  to  the  network  community.
    Surprisingly, network products seem to be rather commonly not provided.

    What's more  Europe  STILL  hasn't  got  it's  act together in tracking
    Royalty  PAKS.   You want a Royalty based product, you have to order it
    from the ESSB.

    re .17:
    
    �What's more  Europe  STILL  hasn't  got  it's  act together in tracking
    �Royalty  PAKS.   You want a Royalty based product, you have to order it
    �from the ESSB.
    
    You can say that again...
    
    It's a *royal* pain (pun intended). I just installed the SSB version of
    DEC C++ - it requires tracking a US$ *10* royalty to AT&T. I don't know
    all the administrivia involved, but the FT PAK was available with the
    kit (though the roaylty applied there too).
    
    Now, the people in Europe are stuck, and clearing this mess will
    certainly cost more than $10/licence.
    

    re: .15
    
    E-mail ssb-order is a 'US-only luxury'. In Europe we have to do
    orders through local admin cordinators, and if all the systems work
    (they often don't) you might get the kit in aproximately  5 weeks
    from order.
    
    
    		Pekka

re.19:

I am going through this "pain" at the moment. I ordered software from ESSB at
Galway via an administrator on 10.12.91. I still don't have a schedule for
delivery!  I need the software in order to complete Digital's half of a joint
project with a CSO, so it is really embarrasing not being able to:-

a) get the products quickly (is less than 10 days unreasonable?)
b) not even know when I'll get them a month after I ordered them!

If any one has any good sugestions on how we fix this I'm willing to take
it up the chain in the UK.

Thanks (hopefully) in advance,
Dave.

Ahhh Gi'day...�

    I tried  to  stir up some people in the PAKS business in ESSB.  I got a
    form  letter  back.   They couldn't (certainly didn't) explain why they
    haven't got their act together when the US has.

Dave, give me the DEC number and i'll get my folks to find the order. In my
experience, ESSB are never the problem. There is no reason whatsoever that
should explain why you are being asked to wait longer than a customer.

For rocket menu products, they ship the same day as the order hits them. Most
of the rest ship inside 4 days, with only the rarest of rare taking longer. I
know - my folks monitor their delivery performance to the UK sub every month.

They're a class outfit.
								- Ian W.

    re: .22
    
    Ian,
    
    You are right. The reason for slow internal shipments is not ESSB's
    slownes.  The reason is that people in Europe are not allowed
    (unlike US) to order directly from ESSB (via mail) and ESSB does not
    ship products directly (FEDEX) to the person that made the order.
    
    In stead the order is processed (slowly) by many different admin
    people and admin systems in different countries. The shipment does
    not go to the person who made the order either, but instead it goes
    to a weekly bulk shipment. I have hardly ever seen less than 5 week
    delay from order to the time i actually get the software.
    
    If we could bypass the whole chain (at least for P1 orders) and
    mail internal orders directly to ESSB and ESSB would ship it directly
    to the person who made the order would be a great improvment.
    
    		Pekka

Ahhh Gi'day...�

    Doesn't it  go  to  Sprendlingen  as  well?  People keep telling me how
    wonderful  the delivery time is, but it seems to take well over a month
    to  me.   By  the  time the stuff arrives, I can barely remember what I
    wanted it for :)

    In the UK, I mail orders to DECdirect who have delivered in less than a
    working day.
    
    /a

    what is the uk situation ?
    
    do we phone decdirect for catalogues, or get them some other way ?
    
    I used to get the cat, but no longer do and my many attempts at phoning
     have failed so far.
    
    little change of subject.  I  recently got a brand new PC from
    DECdirect and found a memorey problem, so I phoned DECdirect up to get
    some post sales technical support, check memorey configuration, and as
    soon as I said I was internal was told to phone the CSC !
    
    The problem turned out to be a misprint in the catalogue saying new
    PC's could be configured for 6 megs, yet they need to go to 8 megs.
    
    I was told that when phoning groups like the CSC or DECdirect to say
    that it was an internal call, so the people on the other end of the
    line could relax a bit as we work for the same company.
    
    seems this approach doesn't always work to our advantage.
    
    thanks
    
    dave d

Catalogue requests should go to Christine Bridger or Alison Knight @REO
(they're the people who keep the database up-to-date if you send back the
questionaire in the back of every issue). I believe just your name and your
location code should be enough.

As far as PC's go, the UK Product Manager (who's very responsive) is Stephen
Burt.
								- Ian W.

    re: .26 Phone 830 3111 ask for DECdirect. Ask for the Catalogue
    Section. There's a helpful group there that will explain all the
    catalogues available (there's at least 10) and you'll get catalogues
    shortly thereafter.
    
    You can Email your orders to IN_HOUSE@REO, quoting cost centre etc. If
    you have queries, phone 830 3111 and ask for DECdirect.
    
    BTW: they ain't perfect, but they try.

re.20:

How does an IEG order take two months to arrive? I placed an order for some 
software (ULTRIX + Layered Products) on 10th December 1991 and received the
shipment on February 10th 1992! As you can see from the log below it took 
over a week from hitting Customer Admin to getting transmitted to the 
supplier (ESSB, Galway). It took a month for ESSB to ship the order. It 
took 9 days to get from ESSB to Winersh, Reading UK. It took a further  5 
days to get from Winersh, Reading, UK to DEC Park, Reading, UK.

	Order Paperwork received dated  	10-Dec
	Order entered 				11-Dec
	Order released to backlog and added to
	the Galway feeder			18-Dec
	Requested customer Delivery date	14-Dec
	( Already 4 days overdue )
	Order shipped from ESSB ( update from 
	TOLAS rather than the shipment invoice 
	which should have been used )		 4-Feb
	(Shipment from ESSB Galway 24-Jan )
	Received on to TOLAS in the warehouse	 4-Feb
	Delivery note sent from COMAND		 5-Feb
	Delivery note confirmed as shipped 	10-Feb	
	( Received on site 10-Feb)	

I would say this is less than acceptable. Anyone know who owns it?

/Dave.

>I would say this is less than acceptable. Anyone know who owns it?

If Jim Speirs @AYO doesn't, he will know who does.

M.

Barney Deering owns the TAT metric for all software orders in the UK sub. I
smell a rat when you mention COMAND though - BOPS is a hell of a lot slicker
for software orders.
								- Ian W.

re.31:

Are you trying to wind me up Ian :-)

>       -< BOPS feeds overnight and doesn't need to "release" the feeder >-

COMAND feeds at anytime night and day, it's totally flexible, it is the 
people who use it that limit it's feeder capabilities. In the case of the 
example the only thing that stopped transmission to ESSB on the 11th 
December was the order had been entered into OE&V (Order Entry and 
Validation System) but had not been "confirmed" by the adminsitrator. I am 
sure that Bops does not transmit orders that the administrator has not 
completed and confirmed!

> BOPS is a hell of a lot slicker for software orders.
				
Why? From the evidence I see, there are three areas where delays occured;
1. Order Admin. 2. ESSB processing 3. Ship from plant to plant

There is no evidence yet that any of these delays were caused by computer 
applications. 

I had a call yesterday from someone in ESSB who is looking into their end. 
Let's hope we get this sorted for the benefit of all internal customers.

/Dave.

Here are few things I've found out today so far that shed some light!

In the UK (maybe rest of Europe) we are only allowed to order software through
our local customer administrator. We can only order licences and documentation
through DECdirect. DECdirect have a special fast ship arangement with ESSB
which circumnavigates the Digital distribution organisation, who apparentely
are not goaled on fast ship. For example, after cutting a delivery note,
distribution are allowed up to four days for delivery. I am also being told
that some products are automatically on a 25 day ship cycle, so again lack
of speed maybe achievable but the process is not geared up for speed.

/Dave.

I talked to the folks in DECdirect yesterday. They're now accepting internal
orders for software licences, kits and documentation via BOPS.

Martin George and a select few of us agreed a supply contract with ESSB
Mervue and the Northern Logistics Centre, Warrington when we started the
DECdirect Software operation in October '88. All the timings, including
order processing, physical goods movements, etc are all measured
continuously.

Most of the downside of using COMAND is that orders ship to the Southern
Logistics Centre and used to be shelved by default. Most of the software
orders going through the NLC just cross the dock and are moved onto transport
out to the customer direct. That alone gives a week difference!

The other way BOPS helps is that all the lead times are set based on those
stored in ESSB's MAXCIM system, so you'll get the best lead time available
without having the order entry personnel guessing at an "average" request date.

ESSB are a very slick operation. Most of the delays we see come downstream
of their work.
								- Ian W.

Re.34:

That's good news, thanks Ian.

/Dave.