Conference 7.286::digital

 Both of these excellent suggestions are possible with some minimal
 customizations within ALL-IN-1.
 
 Contact the experts in OAWEGO::ALL-IN-1 for some hints and tips to
 see how to make this happen.
 
 Bob Hunt

    By means of explanation... the basenote is 
    
    A MESSAGE I'D LIKE TO REACH FAR AND WIDE, (one of those little things
    that grits on you for years, but isn't BIG enough a deal to make any
    waves over...).  
    
    If more people paid attention to these simple little rules-- I imagine
    the cost savings would be great.  Posting this here allowed me to share
    my suggestion, and perhaps spread the world.   At the very least, I
    feel better.  
    
    I can think of one or two ratholes this note can go down-- and I imagine
    alot of good people may want to debate the issue of mail being printed
    in the "Paperless Society," etc., etc., but that isn't the intent of
    this string.  It's a cost savings suggestion.
       
    Thank you.
    
    Rgds,
    marcia                         

    Thank you, .1  My note was posted in .2 before I read your reply.  
    
    I agree that the fixes might be easy.  And I would be willing to make
    an initial contact.  In fact, I've sent suggestions to DELTA about
    distribution lists in ALL-IN-1.  
    
    I didn't even think that a simple fix for LANDSCAPE docs would be to
    have an automatic message put in the header:
    
    SUBJ:  LANDSCAPE DOC - your subject goes here
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
           Automatically gets plugged in when the system reads more than
           80 characters?  
    
    Sigh.  If the fix is that simple, why has it taken so long for someone
    to pay attention?  More and more people are pulling reports off of
    various systems, into ALL-IN-1 -- which is great that we have that kind
    of functionality built into the software.  I'll take your suggestion
    and make the initial contact.  
    
    Until the a solution is implemented, though, it would be VERY HELPFUL
    if people would heed that simple recommendation to put the message into
    the subject header.  PRINT LANDSCAPE.
    
    I'm curious, though, is there a simple fix which could automatically
    strip distribution lists out of forwarded memos?   
    
    I'm not at all technical, but I *am* very curious!  
    
    Thanks,
    marcia  

    re.0 Just out of curiosity, why can't your boss read his mail
    off a VT like the rest of his and decide what needs to be 
    hardcopied? Since ALL-IN-1 mail seems to follow Sturgeon's
    Law, this would probably save a lot of useless paper.

    Please don't assume that my boss is a male.  SHE isn't.
    
    I will be happy to discuss the many reasons why she shouldn't have to
    read her mail off a VT with you - offline.  Please send me mail if you
    are interested in pursuing this further.  
    
    Rgds,
    marcia

Re.0:

If someone, as a matter of routine, dumps their entire inbox without reading
it to the printer, then what difference will the subject line make? 

/Dave.

    An ALL-IN-1 user will type II - which means Index of Inbox.  That
    does just that-- brings up an index, which allows the user to read all
    the subject lines before printing.  We then type ALL to select all the
    messages, and XP - Print ALL Selected.  If the following appeared in
    the message header or subject line:
    
    SUBJ:  PRINT WIDE/LANDSCAPE - July Brownbook (or whatever...)
    
    ...then I wouldn't select all, and I would print that memo separately,
    to a specific landscape queue.

    As .1 infers this is a simple ALL-IN-1 fix. ALL-IN-1 can be set up to
    basically checking the length of lines of anything that is requested to
    be printed, and if it sees anything over 80, it switch to Landscape.
    Equally, it is a very simple modification to strip the Mailing lists
    off messages being printed.
    
    The underlying problem is the internal misconception of ALL-IN-1. Most
    internal I.S. departments that implement ALL-IN-1 implement the Bare
    Bones shell of it, and do not do any customization or enhancement. It
    cannot be all things to all people. It needs to be modified, but either
    the expertise or motivation to do is is missing...
    
    Q
    

 �   The underlying problem is the internal misconception of ALL-IN-1. Most
 �   internal I.S. departments that implement ALL-IN-1 implement the Bare
 �   Bones shell of it, and do not do any customization or enhancement. It
 �   cannot be all things to all people. It needs to be modified, but either
 �   the expertise or motivation to do is is missing...
 
 True card-carrying ALL-IN-1 bigots believe very deeply that the
 people sitting in front of their keyboards should not have to change
 the way they work in order to suit the software.    The software must
 suit the people.   
 
 It really and truly doesn't do much good to ask everyone else to
 change.   It's just not realistic and the ALL-IN-1 designers knew
 this.   They designed it so it could change and become what you need
 it to be.
 
 Supressing distribution lists is simply a matter of customizing the
 ALL-IN-1 boilerplate templates used to generate mail messages.  
 Something like this is usually a lab exercise for an Intro To
 ALL-IN-1 course.
 
 Detecting wide documents and then automatically printing in landscape
 mode would be a little tougher but it's definitely at the application
 programming level and not at the ALL-IN-1 source code level.
 
 Bob Hunt

	Re .5:     I will be happy to discuss the many reasons why she 
		   shouldn't have to read her mail off a VT ...

	I suppose nobody can insist she read her mail off a VT.  If she
	reads her mail at the breakfast table, a DECstation plopped among
	the muffins and eggs would be a nuisance, however entertaining.

	But it does seem a shame to print all that paper.  Is there some
	legal reason?  Or is there some techno reason susceptible to
	engineering correction?  Do we smell a product opportunity here?
	Would she use a pen-based computer?

	Regards, Robert.

    > Is there some legal reason?  
      NO
    
    > Or is there some techno reason susceptible to engineering correction? 
      NO
    
    > Opportunity?
      DOUBTFUL
    				---------------------
    
    Thank you for your interest.  However, I would like to pursue the solu-
    tions which could be applied by those people who dump entire INBOXes to
    print at one time.  No matter how much discussion you have on the sub-
    ject, this user, and many, many others - will continue to work in that
    fashion.  The reason behind that is besides the point.
                                          

    re: why print all replies to a printer, rather than reading them on the
    screen...
    
    Seems like it's obvious to me... managers time is worth more than paper
    cost.  This is just a fact, not a remark or disdain. I've seen lots of
    managers come in once per day to grab the printout so they can read it
    either on the way home, or at home, or at breakfast, or on the way to
    work the next day.
       Personally, I think they work too hard (at least the good ones do),
    but I'm glad they do work as hard as they do.  I'll grant them the
    paper.
    
    Bruce Evans

>    Seems like it's obvious to me... managers time is worth more than paper
>    cost.  This is just a fact, not a remark or disdain. I've seen lots of
>    managers come in once per day to grab the printout so they can read it
>    either on the way home, or at home, or at breakfast, or on the way to
>    work the next day.
 
	One suggestion:

	Get a laptop and download mail.

	Read mail from ther laptop. and instead of hand-writing replies for 
	later typing, type replies on the laptop, and when next in the office, 
	upload.

	Saves time, and is faster.........it may not meet requirements, as we
	haven't been told the requirements/problems.

	I am sure a better solution to the current one could be found by
	talking with the manager and secretary to help them understand the
 	capabilities of IT, and to work with them to see how these capabilities
 	could help them meet or exceed their goals.
	

	Heather

    
    
    	re. 13
    
    	Can't agree with you here. How many reams of paper would equal
    	1 lap top + batteries + field service costs ?
    
    	Not to mention what happens to your mail and notes if you drop
    	the little buggers....
    
    	IMHO lots of managers especially the farther you get from
    	engineering prefer/insist on most everything in hard copy. 
    
    	Learning how to use a PC or even All-In-1 or VMS mail is usually
    	not on their agenda.
    
    						Mike
    						----
    	
    	
    

I sometimes print off a ton of mail and take it home with me (no, I'm not a 
manager, just a software engineering type).  And I even have a laptop! 

Why?  Well, it's hard to annotate/highlight on a terminal (even on my 
so-called color VAXstation) compared with what I can do with a HiLiter (tm)
and a pen... 

					Nigel

>    	re. 13
>    
>    	Can't agree with you here. How many reams of paper would equal
>    	1 lap top + batteries + field service costs ?
 
	I think you missed the point, I was saying that I am sure their are
	ways to improve the situation...................say it saved an hour a 
	day.

	$60,000 a year at 200 days is $40 and hour

	An hour a day saved is $8,000 a year, thats on top of paper saving etc. 
	   
>    	Not to mention what happens to your mail and notes if you drop
>    	the little buggers....
 
	If you couldn't recover, you'd only loose what you'd written, you 
	still have the advantage that you can download again.
	About the same as if you lost your briefcase, or had it pinched.
   
>    	IMHO lots of managers especially the farther you get from
>    	engineering prefer/insist on most everything in hard copy. 
 
	This is not my experience at all. Most of the Board of Management
	in the UK use electronic communications, some using workstations.
	   
>    	Learning how to use a PC or even All-In-1 or VMS mail is usually
>    	not on their agenda.
 
	But using their time more productively IS. If you can show the
	savings that can be gained, they'll be dragging the solutions out of 
	you.   
    	
				Heather

>Why?  Well, it's hard to annotate/highlight on a terminal (even on my 
>so-called color VAXstation) compared with what I can do with a HiLiter (tm)
>and a pen... 


	Well, I can do this very easily using the VT240 I've had for 7 years 
	and using the DECmate 3 I have at home.
	The KP6 key works wonders with WPS, so does the KP9(underline) key.

	I can also insert comments very easily, rather than trying to write
	in-between lines or down the margin!

	Heather

FLAME ON!

Here's my theory on why some people print out all their mail:

I suspect that it has to do with a lack of typing ability.
Since high-level managers are about the only ones with enough
clout to hire a private typist, it is usually most visible with them.
No workstation for them!  THEY have a secretary (adminstrative assistant?)
to do their dirty work for them.  When in fact it is their slow typing
speed that makes them turn away from a keyboard.

I'll bet that the same people who ask their secretaries to print out their
mail to read it also have their secretaries type their replies.

If these people were illiterate, they would probably have their secretaries
read it out loud to them to hide the fact that they could not read it for
themselves.  Would we accept this?  (Just an analogy - don't take
it literally.)  

I do a slow burn when I think about the wasted paper, etc.  And to say
that some people earn too much per hour to read their EMAIL on-line is nothing
short of an insult.  How much do I need to make before this becomes true
for me?  $50K?  $80K?  $150K?  More?  And what about all the high-paid
executives who DO read their own mail?  Are they wasting company resources?
I think not.

This makes me ANGRY.  There is NO EXCUSE for blindly printing all your EMAIL.
Learn how to type and spend some time in front of a screen.

-steve-

    
    -.1
    
    Steve,
    
      You forgot to say flame off.
    
    I agree that some users of our systems NEED to understand how to use
    them. But try and get them training, or whatever is another matter.
    
     We should use/learn what we sell.
    
    -Mike Z.

    Simply print the stuff to a line printer that uses 132 column wide
    paper.  You don't have to worry about the wide stuff, it will fit.  You
    use cheaper resources and don't have to worry about toner running out
    and not being able to get more.  If you drop your pile of mail, you
    don't have to spend all day sorting it.  You have plenty of blank space
    to make notes.
    
    The laser printer should be used only when it's quality is necessary.
    Is the quality necessary here?
    
                                    August G. Reinig

    Folks,
    
    We can all agree in principle that managers 'should' read e-mail
    on-line.  But, that's not what was requested.  In fact, the author of
    .0 specifically asked us not to digress on the merits, but consider
    satisfying the request.  Still, we have to argue the merits of the
    request.
    
    Occasionally we get feedback from customers that DEC is perceived as
    arrogant.  Perhaps this is something we share with most large
    companies.  But, we all need to listen to what the customer says and try
    to satisfy the customer.  Internal customers are still customers, and
    they probably represent unrecognized needs of some external customers.
    
    I wonder, as I follow the replies on this topic, if we aren't revealing
    a tendency towards arrogance (refusing to address the customers
    request, because we know better).  Does your experience really qualify
    you to judge the priorities appropriate to success in someone else's
    job.  I submit that this is more often NOT the case.
    
    Gordie

RE: .20

>    Simply print the stuff to a line printer that uses 132 column wide
>    paper.  You don't have to worry about the wide stuff, it will fit.  You
>    use cheaper resources and don't have to worry about toner running out
>    and not being able to get more.  If you drop your pile of mail, you
>    don't have to spend all day sorting it.  You have plenty of blank space
>    to make notes.
>    
>    The laser printer should be used only when it's quality is necessary.
>    Is the quality necessary here?
    
18 months ago that would have been my reaction as well.  Since then I have
moved from the hallowed halls of ZKO (where such line printers are commonly
available) to the small office in the field.

August, the *only* printer we have is one (yes, 1) LN03R.  Everybody, 
(managers, sales reps, sales support, secretaries) backs up on the same 
printer.  My decision to use the LN03 has *nothing* to do with questions
about whether the quality is necessary.  If I want a print, I use the LN03.

Your idea is a good one where 132 column line printers are available, but is 
not practical for the majority of places where such devices do not exist.
I suggest that for the vast majority of office workers, laser printers are 
the only things available.

-- Ken Moreau

    
>    We can all agree in principle that managers 'should' read e-mail
>    on-line.  But, that's not what was requested.  In fact, the author of
>    .0 specifically asked us not to digress on the merits, but consider
>    satisfying the request.  Still, we have to argue the merits of the
>    request.
 
	Firstly, I don't agree that all managers should read mail on line.

	The only problem we know of is that the secretary has mail that
	needs to be printed landscape, and this does not print that way when
	she block-prints mail.

	So, the secretary wants it in the heading, and the sender doesn't want
	to put that in the heading, they want a meaningful heading.

	Asking people to change the heading in the mail they send is just the
	same as someone saying she shouldn't print it out.

	Who's your customer, the sender or the reciever? Both are trying to 
	change someone elses behaviour.

	I believe - as I have said before, that sitting down with the manager 
	and secretary, discussing their problems, and capabilities of technology
	can improve their productivity, and get rid of this specific problem.

	But, we all need to listen to what the customer says and try
    	to satisfy the customer.  Internal customers are still customers, and
    	they probably represent unrecognized needs of some external customers.
    
	Satisfying the customer can be giving them a solution to a problem
	(not trying to fix a symptom) and also advising them on alternatives
	which are worth considering.

	Heather

    I haven't been here for a few days-- partially because I've been very
    busy and partially because I saw this string going right where I was
    afraid it would.
    
    I would only like to comment on one reply.  To the author of
    .18 - your theory is all wet.  You can flame all you want, but you're
    way off base.
    
    
    To the last few:  Thank you for bringing this conversation back to the
    original request. ...interesting comments made regarding the arrogance
    of Digital and people debating the customer's request.
                          
    Rgds,
    marcia                                                           

    I can think of many situations where hard copy of mail is more
    convenient, cost effective, and/or productive. 
    
    One example that comes to mind is where a business person works in a
    major metropolitan area and uses masstransit for commuting. Taking the
    mail to read on the way is a good use of time. Obviously, this could be
    accomplished with a laptop but......(NAH! I'll leave that for a
    different topic/conference.) Surely, travel situations could be viewed
    similarly. 
    
    Also, there are times when a person's schedule gets so hectic that the
    only time to review the mail is after hours at home. Again, the
    appropriate method for the employee of a world class computer
    manufacturer might be to use the PC, laptop, or terminal that has been
    supplied. But, some business people realize that they would only use
    such equipment occasionally.... and then only to read mail. They may
    have decided that it is more cost effective to rely on hard copy for
    this purpose.
    
    I agree with the response that said we appear arrogant when we assume
    that the requestor ( customer ) is unaware of more sophisticated
    solutions. Sometimes they are well aware but choose a more simplistic,
    crude, or less costly avenue.
    
    Just my feelings on the subject.
    
    BG  

.20 mentioned printing on a 132 column line printer which sounded like a good 
idea if one had been available, but apparently it's not.

But the basenote author said she wanted to print the wide mail in landscape
mode so if the smaller print of landscape more is acceptable for wide copy then
it should also be acceptable for the rest.  So, combining the two ideas, why
not simply print it *all* in landscape mode? 

-  David

A simple question.  

Is it beyond our existing technology to provide a default instruction to 
automatically print any page with more than 80 characters in landscape
format?  That should solve the problem.

A simple answer please.

Shalom
Baruch

> <<< Note 1561.8 by BUNYIP::QUODLING "I'll have some of what Marketing is Smoking..." >>>
>    The underlying problem is the internal misconception of ALL-IN-1. Most
>    internal I.S. departments that implement ALL-IN-1 implement the Bare
>    Bones shell of it, and do not do any customization or enhancement. 
    
There is a Tool Kit to add many of the features referenced here that I 
believe is mandated to be installed on all internal systems that come 
under the management umbrella of IM&T.  Suggest you log to the notes file:

	OGOMTS::A1-TOOLKIT 

FOR THE COMPLETE PICTURE.
Sorry... I don't know how to activate that thing that would let me say 
press KP7 to add this to your notebook (though I may learn after filing this 
memo).  So, If KP7 doesn't do it, just type:

	ADD ENTRY OGOMTS::A1-TOOLKIT 

REGARDS,
ALLAN

>There is a Tool Kit to add many of the features referenced here that I 
>believe is mandated to be installed on all internal systems that come 
>under the management umbrella of IM&T.  Suggest you log to the notes file:

>	OGOMTS::A1-TOOLKIT 

	You believe incorrectly, in the UK their is a "core" system, which
	gives many additions for the British English version, this "core"
	can then be added to if required. It is enhanced every 6 months
	to include additional features that may be required. It is not
	mandatory, however, it has been installed on all "production" 
	clusters which provide an ALL-IN-1 service in the UK.

	There are also similar "standard" or "core" systems in other
	European countries.

	Heather