Conference 7.286::digital

You are damn right there are double standards, especially between Customer 
Services and Sales. Generally related to Hotel/Motel accomodations and air fare.

For example, while all of the Sales & Sales Support people here fly to 
training in New England (1 hour flight), Customer Services people have to 
drive (6-7 hour drive). Really wise use of their time, eh?

The sooner there is consistency across Customer Services, Sales and EIS, the 
better off we'll all be.

Regards,

Jim

    I recently saw a memo describing the results of an expense audit in the
    US.  The abuses described were extremely disturbing.  The good news is
    that the result is supposed to be streamlined, easy to understand, easy
    to deal with policies. 
    
    One of the problems I have seen over the past 15 years is that policies
    are treated as guidelines and are not taken seriously very often.  Our
    corporate culture has espoused "do what's right", which has been
    interpreted "do what is right for you".
    
    Establshing sensible, fair policies with a well defined, fair exception
    process, and universal implementation would be beneficial to all of us
    and to the well being of DEC.  I am a manager and do not want to be
    treated any differently than the people in my organization.
    
    I travelled to CXO several weeks ago.  It appears that hotel expense
    policy is being enforced through AMEX.  People used to stay at
    Executive Suites, which is deemed to be too expensive and not on the
    list.  Lower cost motels that were never booked (Days Inn,etc) are now
    on the approved list.  I don't have a problem with this as long as the
    place is clean, comfortable, and has a bath tub, color TV, and
    telephone.
    

    Frequently a trade show or convention held in a major city is held in
    the "downtown" area, which is typically not noted for low hotel rates.
    But at the same time, while all of us may not have the time to do what
    I did in the note below (which I posted in the NOTED::ON_THE_ROAD
    conference last month), it was worth the effort for me, and ultimately
    saved Digital a few bucks.
    
    fwiw
    Jon
    
        <<< NOTED::DISK$NOTES2:[NOTES$LIBRARY_2OF5]ON_THE_ROAD.NOTE;2 >>>
                              -< Business travel >-
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Note 519.0           Use your own rate negotiation at hotels          No replies
TIGEMS::ARNOLD "Some assembly required"              28 lines  19-MAY-1991 20:54
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    In these economic times, just thought I'd mention something that has
    occurred to me a few times recently that seems to be taking form in the
    hotel industry.  I was in Phoenix recently, supporting two trade shows
    that were happening simultaneously at different locations.  I picked a
    hotel that was somewhat in the middle of the two locations, but of
    course, that hotel was not offering the "conference rate" from *either*
    of the two shows.  I called the hotel SALES DEPARTMENT (*NOT* the
    non-empowered person working the reservations phone), explained the
    situation, stated that I'd REALLY like to stay there.  They called me
    back about an hour later saying they would be willing to *beat* the
    lowest convention rate at any of the convention-recommended hotels.
    
    Last week, I found I would be supporting a trade show in Atlanta next
    month.  I don't care for the hotel chain who is the only one (as far as
    I can tell) offering a convention rate, so I called another hotel about
    two blocks from where the convention is to be held, talked to the SALES
    DEPARTMENT, explained about the show and said that I'd much rather stay
    at their hotel IF they could beat the rate of the convention-
    recommended hotel.  (The "standard corporate discount" rate at this
    hotel was $78/night more than what I was asking them to beat).  They
    called me back an hour later and said they would match the rate.
    
    By the way, these are "brand name" hotels, not Motel-6 or Red Roof
    Inns.  It appears that they have finally faced the fact that it's
    beneficial to negotiate rather than leave a room empty.
    
    fwiw
    Jon

    <re: .3>
    
    Jon, it's admirable that you take the time to make your own travel
    arrangements; especially in light of your much-sought-after programming
    talent!
    
    However, I believe that one of the reasons for booking travel through
    AMEX - IS for aggregate COST SAVINGS.  The key *must* be aggregate
    because I'm able to find lower rates whenever I make my own
    arrangements.
    
    So, if we spend � to 1 hour of DIGITAL's time chasing down airfares and
    roomrates - the very things DIGITAL expects AMEX to do - are we really
    saving DIGITAL money?  What *IS* AMEX's added-value?
    
    If AMEX is DIGITAL's sole travel agent (ie. negotiates travel on
    DIGITAL's behalf), then maybe our redundant efforts are:
    
         (1) distracting us from those activities for which 
             we are being paid, and
    
    	 (2) on an *aggregate* (there's that word, again!) basis
    	     are actually saving Digital less than we think.
    
    
    What do you think?
    
    
    The main reason is that I frequently do my own legwork is that I
    have not been very satisfied with AMEX's arrangements.  I spend a
    substantial part of my time on trips that last anywhere from 1 week to
    3 weeks.  As an individual, I have been able to find lower airfares 
    than they have quoted me ( I have an account on CompuServe and can access 
    the SABRE system).
    
    Also, I have to constantly remind them that our Region's maximum hotel
    allowance is $65 (to which they respond "Well, I'll see what I can
    find")!  Several months ago, after asking me where in L.A. I needed to
    be (so that they could find accomodations close by),  they put me in a 
    Hilton in a bad part of Los Angeles for $105/night.  Because L.A is so 
    expensive, I got the rate approved.  However, the place smelled so bad 
    that after the first night, I searched for another hotel for my 2-week stay.
    
    I found a very clean (and new) Holiday Inn for $85/night within walking
    distance from the customer I was working at.  (In downtown L.A., that's
    a good rate).
    
    Making my own arrangements (when I can) is worth the effort for me.  I
    try to find a hotel/motel that is close enough to the customer site
    that I don't need to rent a car.  AMEX hasn't been much help in that
    regard.  So most of the time I end up calling the customer to get
    recommendations from them and either call the hotels myself or 
    call AMEX with the particulars.
    
    --Bruce

    re: -.1
    
    The reference to AMEX reminds me of when I used to work at the 
    smorgasbord.  Customers asked how it was that we could make any money
    providing such a wide selection of good food at such a reasonable cost.
    We told them that we lost money on every customer, but we made up for
    it in volume ...  ;^)
    
    Steve

    re .4
    
    Many of us don't have time to make our own hotel/air reservations, nor
    to spend inordinate amounts of time looking for the best rates, or
    checking to see if Amex gave us the best rate.  I do it sometimes, when
    I have time, mostly on my *own time*, for the following reasons:
    
    1.  If I am successful in finding a better air/hotel rate, then
        Digital saves money.
    
    2.  Frequently (as in the case reported a few notes back), in addition
        to the cost savings, the location was much more convenient to
        the two places I had to be simultaneously.
    
    I have never gotten grief from booking a hotel outside of Amex, though
    in that case, Amex does not get any commission on that hotel.  I have,
    however, gotten grief from not booking air via Amex.  But I do know
    that for air specifically, if we find a better fare that Amex did not
    offer (and was available at the time the reservations were made!),
    please document that fact and send it in a mail message, since as
    reported in another note in this conference, that mail message
    represents significant jing in Digital's pocket for that month via
    penalties to Amex.
    
    Jon

    
    
    I think the reply describing the smoragasbord hit the nail on the
    head as far as AMEX and Digital's "negotiated rates" go.  I got 
    the following information from a coworker this morning.  This is
    regarding a Digital customer training location.
    
    
       "I have gotten a little better news on the Sheraton Great Valley
	at the Penn State site for those of you with AAA.  AAA offers
	a rate of $65.00 there as opposed to the "Great Value Rate" of
	$80.00 or the Digital Rate of $83.00.  A word of advice though
	when dealing with American Express.  Make sure you tell them
	to check for the AAA discount.  They claim AAA is never as good
	as our rate but as you can see it beats us by a good bit."


    I think it is common in our office is that we have to turn
    down hotels offered by AMEX, reminding them that the hotels exceed
    our limits, frequently finding a better hotel rate ourselves. 

    RE .2
    
    The Embassy Suites is "BACK ON THE LIST" of hotels in CXO, it seems
    they re-negotiated prices when they learned we were dropping them. Its
    the only NICE hotel in the area that is close to CXO and CXN facilities
    
    I've also stayed at the $56.00 a Night Hilton off Garden of the Gods
    and it too was acceptable.
    

Re:<<< Note 1514.5 by RICKS::SHERMAN "ECADSR::SHERMAN 225-5487, 223-3326" >>>

>    We told them that we lost money on every customer, but we made up for
>    it in volume ...  ;^)
    
I'm still trying to work the math on this one...  :-)

Re:      <<< Note 1514.8 by CREME::SCHULTZ "Peripheral Visionary..." >>>

>    The Embassy Suites is "BACK ON THE LIST" of hotels in CXO, it seems
>    they re-negotiated prices when they learned we were dropping them. Its
>    the only NICE hotel in the area that is close to CXO and CXN facilities
    
I've never had a problem with either the Sheraton or Marriott, both of which 
are *very* close to CXO or CXN, or are they no longer on "the list"?

-  David

    I talked about a year ago with a DEC person whose job is to negotiate
    with Amerx.  Two things she said may apply to this discussion:
    
    1) If you do find better rates somewhere, get the information from
       the vendor and call Amerx with that information; they'll book
       it for you.  Unfortunately, they can't be everywhere and know
       every place; they just see what's on their system as available.
       IF you find something better, great, but have Amerx book it so
       (a) you stay in-line with policy and (b) they learn about the
       place and can therefore update their system.
    
    2) While a rate may seem higher to us, we're not privy to the
       negotations between the vendors and Amerx.  If, for example,
       they work a lot with a specific hotel, they might get a
       refund at year-end to account for volume.  Or, if they can
       prove through their records that they sent X-number of people
       to a certain hotel one year, they're given a lot more 
       leverage when they go to negotiate lower fares with that
       hotel.  If we book things ourselves, Amerx won't have the
       advantage of knowing where they can make the best savings
       for DEC.
    
    I might not have all the facts right (for example, I don't know if
    there are year-end volume refunds), but I do know that Amerx has an
    automated tracking system for hotels, airfare, etc., which enables them
    to break-down all pertinent information when it comes time to
    negotiate with various vendors.  So, if you do find a better rate, just
    let 'em know and they'll take it from there.  Or, if you're really
    nervous about  missing the rate, make the reservation and call Amerx
    with the reservation number/information so they can switch it from your
    personal booking to their 'official' booking (keeping you in-line with
    policy, and keeping their records as accurate as possible).
    
    Hope that helps.
    
    Regards,
    

    re: .8, .9
    
    When I worked at CXO for a couple of weeks in May of 1989 I wanted to
    stay at "the cheapest motel in Colorado Springs".  If I remember
    correctly I got a room for $17.50 a night, at the blockhouse on the
    northwest corner of Garden of the Gods and the freeway.  I don't
    remember the name of the place, and it changed affilitations while I
    was there.
    
    It wasn't high-class accomodations, but it was adequate for my needs.
        John Sauter

    Re -1 ..... sounds like the "Super 8", which is the chain I always try
    to use when travelling on my own.  Nice rooms, free cable, free morning
    paper and coffee and dugnuts.  
    
    Now if you want really cheap, I know a joint on South Nevada that 
    charges only $45.00 a WEEK!!!  Of course, you might have to adjust to
    a reasonable amount of "activity" in adjoining rooms during the night.
    Actually I would only recommend this hovel for management and marketing
    folks {:^)

    re . last several
    
    These are really nice comments, but what do they have to do with the
    original topic.
    
    I too think there is a double standard with "marketing" and "services". 
    This double standard doesn't just apply to travel.
    
    Jon Aller

    re. -1
    
     You are correct !!