Conference 7.286::digital

    Hi Mike,
    
    I hope things are going well for you in DC and I am doing well here
    in the "City That Reads" the same city that is having a terriable year
    baseball-wise. 
    
    Could someone please refute this rumor quickly. I mentioned it in the
    office this morning and now EVERYONE thinks I'M raising the company car
    amount and they are wondering what I'm going to do with all the extra
    money. 
    
    Fred Mudgett

    If Plan A does go up to $50/week I'm sure that DEC will have a lot more
    Plan A cars in its inventory!
    
    	BD�

	... that I "pay" to DEC now in $30 weekly payments, would make
for a pretty good car lease, maybe with a maintenance plan!

	But then again, there's that d$%^ed IRS deduction off the top!

    DOes anyone remember when the weekly "A" plan rate went from $18 to $30
    and the reason given was the dramatic increase in the cost of gas?
    Wonder what happened to the concept of being honest about the real
    reason it went up - that would be O.K. If it was the real reason, why
    did it not drop lower once gas evened out - and what would it imply
    about future increases?   Obviously we'll get what we get, but it makes
    one wonder.

re:                  <<< Note 1477.4 by GLDOA::MORRISON "Dave" >>>
                         -< remember $18 -->>> $30 ?? >-

<    DOes anyone remember when the weekly "A" plan rate went from $18 to $30
<    and the reason given was the dramatic increase in the cost of gas?
<    Wonder what happened to the concept of being honest about the real
<    reason it went up - that would be O.K. If it was the real reason, why
<    did it not drop lower once gas evened out - and what would it imply
<    about future increases?   Obviously we'll get what we get, but it makes
<    one wonder.

    While I don't have the pleasure of any company car now, I did have a
    fleet vehicle when the weekly rate was increased from $9 to $18 in
    1982, and from $18 to $30 in 1986 (I believe it was '86).  
    
    I *NEVER* heard anyone state the reason for either increase had
    anything whatever to do with the price of gasoline.  Rather, it had
    everything to do with the cost of maintenance and cost of leasing...
    plus the IRS nosing in and grabbing a piece of the "benefit" of driving
    a fleet vehicle.
    
    tony
    

    re: 0
    PLAN A Disadvantage: Clunky, poor handling, big box Taurus w/automatic

    PLAN B Advantage: The car I want with great handling, small size, and a
    	five speed stick.

    re .4 and .5
    
    As I recall the increase had nothing to do with gas or maintenace and 
    everything to do with the IRS and their fringe benefit valuation rules.
    

    
    I thought that the Plan A contribution was simply to pay our part
    for personal use of a company car, as required by the IRS.  If we're
    out of town for a week, we can park the car and not have to pay.
    
    If this is true, and the contribution goes to $50 a week, and our
    personal use doesn't change, wouldn't we just get any excess
    contribution back at the end of the year at tax time?  This is too
    simple, so I guess I'm missing something.
    
    	Dave

	... YOU pay $$$ per week, regardless, and I've never heard
of anyone getting money BACK from the FMV calculation, but I can't
say it's not possible.

	The last time we had an option of paying a personal use
charge was in the '70's, when it was 9 cents per personal mile,
and that DIDN'T include home-direct commutes!  I remember having
some weeks with no personal charge.

	Now, it is a given that you use it for personal puposes,
even if you live at the office! :>)

    I remember a week or two where the car was in the shop and I didn't pay
    the charge (once when it was $9 and when it was $18.)  The first time,
    my boss said 'no...I had to pay' until I found the memo stating that if
    the car was in the shop for more than 4 days in one week, no $18
    payment...
    
    If this comes to pass....Toyota here I come....
    
    Gil
    

    
    Re: Last few
    
    I was assigned to a project in Austria while I had a company car and
    during this period (eight weeks) I payed no weekly fee.  The car,
    however, had to be parked at the office while I was away.
    
    Before this occurred I was assigned to a project in Birmingham, Alabama
    for over a year (my home office is Pittsburgh) and I took my company
    car to Alabama.  Since I considered all of the mileage incurred in
    Alabama as company miles, I had a large credit at the end of the
    year...  -  The credit was deducted from my W-2 so that the effect was
    that I payed no taxes on this excess, but the excess was not returned.
    
    Note that I flew back to Pittsburgh weekly and used my personnel car on
    weekends and to go to/from the airport.
    
    Wayne A. Proie
    

    re: park the car and you don't have to pay
    
    My understanding of this practice is that some Districts will do this
    if they feel that they can make use of the vehicle for the week (you
    park the car and give over the keys to somebody).
    
    The car becomes a floater for the week, so someone else pays the
    charge.
    
    -- Russ

    Does any one know if the Plan B car rates are going up to $300.00 a
    month?
    
    I've seen some rumors in these notes files and have tried to
    call Fleet, but all I get is either a busy signal or put on hold until
    I must hang up.
    
    Also can we get two door cars instead of four door cars?
    
    Anyone with this info out there?
    
    Ken Veale

    RE: PLAN B OPTIONS
    
    A Corporate VTX file entitled Fleet Administration - U.S. is 
    accessable via your terminal.  Plans A and B are described 
    including a list of Plan B non-standard vechicles. While the
    latest entries I saw were dated 24 May 1991, it is a place to 
    start. At the $ prompt keyin:  
    
          VTX US_Fleet
    
    

    re .10
    
    	Please buy American.  It could save a job.  Possibly someone you
    know like maybe one of your kids.
    
    
    
    re .13
    
    	There is a list available that tells what a person can use on plan
    B. It is under vtx us_fleet but local management can override this if
    they wish.  I personally use an S10 blazer 4-WD on plan B and its the
    2-door model.
    

    
>    	Please buy American.  It could save a job.  Possibly someone you
>    know like maybe one of your kids.
 

	Stove-pipes are everywhere!

	Heather - UK     

    re >                     <<< Note 1477.15 by MSDSWS::RCANTRELL >>>
>                           -< reply to .10 and .13 >-
>
>    re .10
>    
>    	Please buy American.  It could save a job.  Possibly someone you
>    know like maybe one of your kids.
    
    Did you mean ......
    
    Buy American; Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth, GM, Ford all make cars in
    Canada and sell them here.
    
    
    Or.................
    
    Buy American; Big 3 all import and sell Japanese and Korean models
    under their own US labels.
    
    
    Or perhaps.........
    
    Buy American; Toyota Corollas made in California (same line as GEO
    Prisms), Honda Accords (make them in Ohio and sell them in Japan),
    Nissan Sentras (Tennesse).
    
  

    
    re:  Buy American
    
    I am an American, and proud of it.  However, I work for Digital, an
    international company.  Imagine if all countries expressed the same
    opinion.  Digital would not be the company it is today.  I agree with
    the stovepipe comment.  We have to forget parochialism.  We live in a
    global economy.  Almost nothing is entirely `American' anymore, except
    for our `ugly American' attitudes.
    
    tgc

      I'm another fleet user eagerly anticipating the next move by 
    Fleet administration. I have quite a few friends with company cars
    (non-DEC, some competitors too) and when I told them about our plan
    B they usually said "that sux!". I really think Digital is going to
    have to evaluate how other companies are doing their Runzheimer
    plans, just to make sure they are fair about the compensation.
    Anyone considering Plan B for service use better keep the mieage
    use in mind before jumping into an extended lease or car payments.
    24K miles a year has been my average for the last three years (with
    approximately 40% personal).
    
    						-John R.-

    When I went on plan B several years ago,it was explained that DEC is
    paying you for the portion of the car that is used for COMPANY
    BUSINESS. Many other companies are paying for you to HAVE a car period.
    These companies are generally much more generous to employees but many
    of them don't have anywhere near DEC's bank balance either. Frugal
    companies survive longer than generous ones.
    
    Ken

    Re: several ago
    Just as a side note:
    1- Beeing proud to be American, Japanese, German, French......
       is great and deserves to be respected.
       (remember the famous "value differences" thing)
    
    2- Above sentiments do not fit anymore with modern worldwide
       economic constraints ("devalue differences" might be appropriate
       there.
    
    3- Using the unemployment threat as opening statement in any
       such discussions around economics makes me sick.
       Recent example:
       
       - French government starts talking about reducing defense budget
       - Guess who reacted violantly and immediately in the media
         with "precise" numbers of people that would loose their jobs.
    
    Sorry for the inerruption,
    Fred
    
      
       

Although we work for an international company, many of us (particularly folks
in the field) are dependent upon economic conditions in the country we live
in.  It's certainly in the best interests of employees in Detroit
that the American automobile business be healthy.  Likewise, it's in
the best interests of German DEC employees that the German automobile
business thrive.

    re: .22 Sacks -< "Buy domestic," not "buy American" >-

    	> It's certainly in the best interests of employees in Detroit that
    	> the American automobile business be healthy.

    I believe that more and more we are living in a borderless economy
    where the best interests of all of us depends on working for and buying
    from companies dedicated to providing quality and value at a
    competitive price.

    General Motors and Ford, in particular, have not been "American" OR
    "Domestic" companies for decades.  For decades, they have been selling
    high quality, high value cars in Germany while, until recently, they
    sold *junk* in the United States.  From this, we know that GM and Ford
    have been capable of producing high quality/value products all along!  
    It was only when the US consumer had a choice (Japanese) and revolted that
    the big push for quality began in the US subsidiaries of GM and Ford in
    Detroit.

    The best way for all consumers, whether U.S. Citizens or German, to
    assure healthy local companies that can compete in the world market, is
    to incentivize *all* companies to strive to equal the best-in-class
    product.  We can only do this by *buying the best quality/value product*
    REGARDLESS of the country where the parent company is legally
    incorporated, or the country where the internationally produced
    components are assembled.

    Carter  

    At what point does DEC say were not fixing cars anymore ?
    
    Example
    In the last 4months DEC has approved the following on my car
    New tires,new brakes,new fuel pump,2 new motor mounts and a new
    battery. 
    At a cost of approximately 1.5grand.
    At this note I have over 77k on the car. Its in pretty good shape as I 
    have been pretty faithful with the maintenance.
    
    It sounds as though were going for the 100k mark. I would like to try
    as Ive never done it before.
    
    Whats the break point ? 
    
    Mike Turro
    
    

    re -.1
    
    >>> What's the break point? <<<
    
    When YOU cannot get to work anymore.
    
    -Mike Z. ;^)

    DEC does not make the determination; the fleet maintenance organization
    makes the call as to whether or not to fix the problem.  In our case
    this is GE Capital.  I called them to ask some questions about this
    kind of stuff.
    
    One comment they made was that they are depreciating cars over 4 years
    (this is the fastest IRS allows).  We used to get rid of the cars after
    3 years.  Therefore, they wanted to maximize the return on selling a
    car.  Now, with us holding the car for the 4 years, and rolling up some
    high miles, they will not be able to get as much for the vehicle so
    they have to maintain it better to make sure it lasts the full four
    years.  As for the 100K mark, I made a comment about expecting that to
    be my goal and they stated it was not likely that I would be keeping my
    car that long.  I don't know why, but evidently they will want it back
    before I realize that milestone.
    
    tgc

My manager has informed me that all maintenance performed on Plan A cars is
charged back to Digital.  When they kept turning down my request for new shocks
for my car, I thought it was because they didn't want to spend the money.  Now
it appears it's Digital that doesn't want to spend the money.  I did finally
get them to replace 2 shocks.  Now if I can only get them to replace my wiper
blades after 54K miles, I might be able to see when it rains.

Bob

    RE: .27  "Gelco doesn't appear to pay any maintenance..."
    
    What's Gelco?  Is that any relation to GE Fleet Maintenance that was
    hired to administer maintenace and repairs on Digital's fleet vans and
    commuter vanpool vehicles?
    

    GELCO IS GENERAL ELECTRIC leasing company.
    
    Mike
    

    re .26
    DEC being the lessee ,is the bottom line in the repair decision process.
    
    I have had to discuss the repair/abandon process with the fleet manager
    in the past. I assume this has/will not change.
    
    Mike

    If hope your joking about the wiper blades. If not, purchase them at
    your local auto parts store and put them on your expenses.....on your
    car sheet under maintenance/repair catagory
    
    	Mike
    
    

re: .31

No, I'm not joking.  The past 2 times I've had the car in for service, I've
requested new wiper blades.  I'm getting a strange whine from the front end,
so I'll take it in next week to get checked and ask for new wiper blades again.

Bob

    
    Isn't there some sort of pittance, like $30, you're authorized to
    spend without fleet's approval?  Take a look at the plastic card
    with your fleet/vehicle number.
    
    	Dave

re: .33

You are right.  I had forgotten about that.  There are exceptions to the $30
rule and it seems like everything I want to do for <$30 is on the exeception
list.

Bob

    re: .34 (exceptions to the $30 rule)
    
    Funny, I don't recall seeing any exceptions listed on the back of the
    Plan A expense form.  I'd just submit it, and if someone challenged,
    I'd say that I was following the rules shown on back of the form.
    
    If the car is unsafe in the rain due to the bad wipers, PUSH BACK! 
    Someone is saving $5 at the risk of your life!
    
    If nothing else, I KNOW that you can expense emergency repairs.  The
    next time it rains constitutes an emergency as it renders the vehicle
    unsafe for travel.  Go to the nearest gas station or K-mart, get the
    wipers, and write it off...  (and, no, I'm NOT kidding)
    
    -- Russ

    If maintenance costs are charged back to Digital, why to they complain
    when I want to save the company some money by changing the oil on my
    car instead of having it done?  We have a contract with JiffyLube. 
    Take the car in and in less than 10 minutes you are back on the road
    with a new filter and oil...and Digital is charged about $30.  If I go
    out and buy the oil and filter for $10 and put it in myself, I am told
    not to do this.  Seems like something is flaky.
    
    Same goes for wipers.  They would rather have you have a garage put
    them in than you replacing them.  Does the owning cost center get
    charged for these smaller maintenance items versus the corporate fleet
    program for the charged items?  If Digital pays for all maintenance,
    then the only thing I can guess is that the items entered on expense
    forms are covered by local cost center and they do not want to have
    these expenses.
    
    tgc

    If your car throws a piston after you change the oil do you want DEC
    to come after you for destroying it?

    I had a fleet car once for part of a temporary assignment. It was
    nothing but a hassle. The car had numerous problems, the biggest
    being that it always stalled at slow speeds. DEC was putting me
    up in Worcester Mass at the time, and each time the car needed
    servicing I had to take it to the Ford dealer near Maynard. I think
    it took almost an hour to get there. Then arrange transportation
    back. Each time it went in the dealer would do another tuneup and
    soak DEC an outrageous sum. I checked the maintenance records from
    before I received the car and the previous user had the same things
    going on...I pushed back on the appropriate people within DEC, but
    the problem never was resolved. The last straw was a flat tire. I
    was told to go to a Firestone dealer. They had a deal where they fixed
    the tire for a flat rate of 60.00 (I think this was through Gelco).
    The tire was a 29.00 special. Dec was getting soaked. I reported this
    also, but never heard back. At this point I decided it was taking
    to much of my time, besides risking my safety stalling everytime you
    pull into traffic. I turned the car back over along with some comments
    on how I thought the whole program was run and got an Avis car for the
    rest of my stay...Oh, and I got harrassed about changing my own oil
    also...gee, sorry DEC, I saved you 12.00...If an engine blows after, it
    blows. It would've anyways...There's no way anyone's going to collect
    money to repair it from the user...IMHO...
    
    Marty
         

    Blows a piston because I changed the oil!?!?!?
    
    That's a new one!  If the car is going to blow a piston it will do it
    no matter who changes the oil.  I believe it is a matter of
    beauracracy.  Anytime one cannot save the company money because "that's
    not the way we do it", it generally comes down to fiefdoms.
    
    tgc

    You missed the point.  I know they are almost always unrelated events. 
    But if you do your own work you have to assume the risk that you will
    be blamed for something you didn't cause.

.36>    If maintenance costs are charged back to Digital, why to they complain
.36>    when I want to save the company some money by changing the oil on my
.36>    car instead of having it done?  We have a contract with JiffyLube. 
.36>    Take the car in and in less than 10 minutes you are back on the road
.36>    with a new filter and oil...and Digital is charged about $30.  If I go
.36>    out and buy the oil and filter for $10 and put it in myself, I am told
.36>    not to do this.  Seems like something is flaky.
    
  I was told that oil changes are different than other <$30.00 repairs in that
Digital (or GELCO) has negotioted with Ford, Chevy, and Firestone (maybe others)
to bill the oil changes thru GELCO (at least for the first 60,000 miles since
that was the original lease agreement with GELCO).  Supposedly oil changes
are figured into the leasing costs and only cost Digital extra money if we 
don't go thru the GELCO call before service routine.

  Now for the real purpose of my note.  My company Taurus has 91,000 miles on
it.  My CC manager says there are no replacement cars available for me.  I
hear from other sources that there are numerous extra cars due to the recent
layoffs.  Next week I take my car in for repairs again.  This is happening
more and more frequently.  So far I've had new tires, brakes, and a transmission
rebuild, my gas guage fixed, headlights replaced, electrical short repaired,
speedometer cable repaired, etc...

  Is anyone else putting up with this or am I just getting screwed over ?  I'm
still paying $30.00 a week for this junker.  It's getting to the point where
plan A is not a good deal when I'm driving a 91,000 mile, 1988 car.  Whats's
the deal ???

Mike.

    The main reason that all maintenance is supposed to be done at a
    dealer, or garage, and not by the driver is liability.
    
    If you are changing the oil, and the car falls on you, Digital is in
    for a big lawsuit if'n your significant other wants to pursue it.
    
    Not saying that everybody is dumb enough to crawl under a car without
    it being supported properly, but it's suprizing how many people do not
    take adequate safety precautions before slithering under the car, and
    when the car falls, it's almost always fatal.
    
    To pay $21.95, which is the cost of an oil change here in Pittsburgh,
    vs, oh about $500,000 in a lawsuit + legal costs, sounds smart to me.
    That's 20,000+ oil changes.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    re:41
    
    There is someone assigned to your area (mine's out of Atlanta) to
    track/manage the "fleet".  My understanding has been that it costs the
    company more money to continue leasing a low mileage unassigned car as
    opposed to an assigned on with high mileage. My area rep has been most
    helpful in assisting me in locating/replacement of a lower mileage/less
    troublesome vehicle for replacement. 
    
    If in doubt, call Fleet Admin in NE and find out who the person is
    that's responsible for your area.
    
    To put it mildly, we are no longer dealing with new car replacement but
    rather "used car" practices: What's out there that's better than mine?
    It's really a take what you can get deal although some of these fleet
    managers will work with you in trying to narrow choices such as "a GM
    car with low mileage"...no choice or color or options.
    
    Not bad..considering.

    o	I checked my transmission fluid in my 1987 GELCO Taurus 4-banger.
    	Burned.  Took it to our local GELCO-blessed service shop, to be
    	told that GELCO declined to pay for changing the transmission fluid
    	and filter.  Reason ?  If the transmission failed for any reason,
    	Ford would replace it free.  I have to travel regularly between
    	Tucson and Phoenix, AZ - easily reaches 120F in the daytime.  I 
    	certainly wouldn't be happy at being stranded in the desert so
    	GELCO could 'save' $17.00 so Ford can spend $900.. I, too, use
    	the $30.00-and-under discretionary repair clause.
    
    o	Another time, GELCO Topaz, 45,000 miles, shock absorbers absolutely
    	gone, car bobbling and bouncing about, I went to the shop.  Nope-
    	GELCO won't pay for shock absorbers, because they "aren't a safety
    	related item." !? 
    
    karl

    re: .-1  "shocks not a safety item"
    
    Maybe different states have different rules and regulations about
    this sort of thing?  I recall having a similar conversation with
    fleet many years ago, and the coup de grace was a comment the shop
    mechanic made to the fleet bozo:  "I don't think this car would
    pass inspection this way; how up-to-date is your liability insurance?"
    
    The struts were recharged or replaced or whatever it's called.  I
    don't know if the inspection laws are different here (Texas) or if
    the mechanic was just blowing smoke, but I do know that the comment
    got some attention focused on what the fleet bozo dismissed as a
    "nuisance" problem.  
    
    A related peeve of mine is that the powers-that-be seem to have
    forgotten that the company car is more than just a convenient perk
    for employees, and that one of the main reasons we have cars is to
    carry *customers* around.  Personally and professionally, I'd be
    *very* embarrased to take a customer to a meeting in a company car
    that belched smoke and rattled and clanged over the slightest bumps.
    Unfortunately, I've had to do exactly that, with the inevitable 
    comment being  "Gee, DEC must be pretty bad off these days ..."
    
    Geoff