Conference 7.286::digital

    re: .0
    
    It's not a program and it's not new.  Seven years ago, I left DEC to
    work for one of our "competitors".  I gave my 4 week notice (WC 4) and
    three days later was called into my manager's office.
    
    I was "paid" for the remainder of my time, was paid for any remaining
    vacation time and whatever else I had accumulated (I can't remember
    specifics).  I was told that today was my last day, to take my
    belongings with me and to turn in my badge.
    
    I didn't appreciate being treated like I had done something wrong but I
    understood their reasons.  Two years later, I was back at DEC -- in
    another group.
    
-- Linda      

re: .1,

>    I didn't appreciate being treated like I had done something wrong but I
>    understood their reasons.  Two years later, I was back at DEC -- in
>    another group.

	In other words, you were humiliated by management when you exercised
    the only real option available to an employee (i.e. "leaving").  This
    is one reason why I feel a union or a professional association might be
    a good idea, in that it could provide employees with additional options.

				     -davo

>	In other words, you were humiliated by management when you exercised
>    the only real option available to an employee (i.e. "leaving").  This
>    is one reason why I feel a union or a professional association might be
>    a good idea, in that it could provide employees with additional options.
>
>				     -davo


	Pardon my confusion, but it appears that in reply #1 Linda had left
	the company voluntarily (as in quit). Although she may have not 
	been treated as good as she felt that she should have by her manager, 
	she did say that she understood their reasons, as I'm sure that we 
	all do. I fail to see how a union or professional association would 
	provide any additional options. I mean, she did leave voluntarily, 
	what other options are there? 

	f.m. 

re: .1 

Well, in my 25+ years of experience in MIS I have worked for many companies
in a variety of industries. This is a VERY COMMON practice, when an employee
gave notice and mentioned that they were going to work for a competetor of
the firm they were always given two weeks pay and asked to leave immediately.
This was never construed as anything other than the firm protecting itself
from the employee deciding to take data, etc, etc home with them during
the notice period that could benefit the employee's new employer.
Now you could say that you would never do such a thing and you may very well
be honest and not do it. That doesn't mean that DEC shouldn't ask you to leave
anyway. I think you overreacted... Chances are that had you not told DEC
who your new employer was going to be, that DEC would not have asked you to
leave. In any case you didnt lose anything it fact you made out in the deal.
 
RE: .2

I fail to see how a union or professional organization would have given her
any other choice. Are you suggesting that either of these could or should
tell an employer how to run its business?

    RE.2 there's that ^%$#@!&*$#@ "U" word again. Do you really think that
    just because she left voluntarily she should get anything more than
    what was coming to her in the way of pay, vacation and benefits? Do
    you really think a union would go against the company in that she had
    given proper notice and they gave her proper pay and did not require
    that she meet any other employment conditions except to depart the
    property a couple of weeks early? Do you really think a union would
    have been able to negotiate the severance packages that have been
    handed out since this mess started? 

    Some persons apparently have never worked in the real world in a union
    shop when the layoff man came around. With no notice at 4:30 PM on
    Friday the man says" give me your time card, here is a check for the
    number of hours you worked this week and last, it was nice knowing you.
    Get out now. Do not empty your locker/desk/office we will call you when
    your goods are packed, if they look like they could be company property 
    we keep it until you prove otherwise. we are not responsible for lost
    or stolen articles.  Friends, go ahead, make your life so great, go on
    strike and do without a paycheck for weeks every 2 or 3 years get laid
    off at the drop of a hat, but what the hay you will have 5 weeks of
    paid vacation after six months on the job and the dunce next to you who
    has been there seven months will get the promotion you deserve. A union
    or other professional organization will not add dignity to what someone
    perceives as an insult.

re: .5

Amen, brother Amen.

In my lifetime I can say that the only people that I have seen benefited
by a union are those that wanted to do less than everybody else and get
at least as much in raises as everybody else. 

- George

re: previous few,

    	I think you missed my point in reply .2 which was that as an
    employee, you basically have one option available to you when push
    comes to shove, and that is to leave DEC.  Now, without knowing the
    details behind why the author of reply .1 left DEC in the first place,
    it is hard to speculate, but it would sure be nice as an employee to
    have a few other options available than simply that of looking for
    the door, and I don't see any such options originating from above.

				   -davo

    re: -1
    
    I wanted to avoid jumping back into this discussion because all I
    wanted to do in reply .1 was the answer the author's question.
    
    But without going into the details... -davo is EXACTLY correct.  I felt
    that I *DID* have to leave the company to get out of a bad situation.
    
    That's all I'm going to say on the subject.
    
-- Linda

    First off thanks for your replies.  Didn't want to start some union
    rathole or how a certain person was treated rathole either.  Looks
    like out here in the west these people don't think this kind of
    thing happens very often and when it has, the people were "high"
    level engineers or managers.  Not some lowly technician such as
    myself.  I'm outta here next friday one way or the other.  So far
    looks like with only my 2 weeks vacation and pay for the week!!