Conference 7.286::digital

    Apparently, the only safe position is VP (of anything) (or even, of
    nothing).
    
    Only half a :-)...

RE:                     <<< Note 1451.0 by ELMST::OPERATOR >>>
    
>      Are there job positions that are safe from a lay off? For example have 
>    there been any Senior VMS Operators laid off?
    
President of the Corporation

    RE: .2 I think Ed deCastro once thought the same thing at DG. :-)
    I doubt there are any safe job codes. Some fairly safe ones. And
    some fairly safe groups. But nothing is 100% any more.
    
    		Alfred

    Re .-2
    
    The CEO of a corporation serves at the discretion of the Board of
    Directors who represent the shareholders. If a BOD doesn't like how a
    company is run the CEO can be fired. Witness DCU, just recently the DCU
    board of directors fired the DCU President/CEO.
    
    Dave

    I sincerely hope that there are NO safe jobs in the corporation
    including my own and including the CEO. Digital should not have anyone
    on the payroll that does not provide business benefit to the
    corporation.
    
    If everybody from the CEO down genuinely thought that their job was on
    the line if they couldn't genuinely say "I make a difference" then this
    company wouldn't have such an overblown G&A line on each and every
    quarterly report.
    
    Dave
                                                               

    RE: last few
    
    I suspect Steve Jobs knows only too well...........
    
    -Dom

re: 1451.2                         Safe Jobs                             2 of 2
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The "safest" jobs, as I understand it, is that of percieved revenue
or cost savings.

If the job that you do, which cannot be done by someone with a lesser skill,
(lower pay), and contibutes more to the bottom line than what it coststo
keep you .. then that is probably one of the safer jobs.

However, you might want to keep in mind, that in many groups which
overall cost more to keep, any one individual may be more expendable
than the person to whom they report (and must cut $x from the budget).

so much for 'safe' jobs ...

BobE

In answer to the orignal Question.

I think Operations would be one of the riskiest long-term career paths, as it
is most prone to Automation. A simple Storagetek 4400 tape handling robot
(Yup, and we OEM them through CSS) would cut the Operations requirements
dramatically (And improve the level of service, but that's another flame...)

q

Somewhere between 35 and 40 people were terminated from here in Burlington
last week.  Some were "voluntary", some were tapped on the shoulder, and some
had been declared TMP earlier and had been unable to find a new job.  Of all
the people that left, I believe only two were first line manufacturing
supervisors, both of whom were TMP's.  All the rest were grunts. 

No line mangers, no cost center managers, no plant staff members.  Meanwhile
another layer of management is being added.  Our plant manager, who reports to 
the US Manufacturing Manager, has been appointed to some sort of "super 
manager" position with the plant managers of Burlington and Augusta reporting 
to him.  We really need another layer at this time...

Larry

    re .-1
    
    hmmm... why am i not suprised? out of 15 or so people that I have known
    personally to have gotten the infamous "tap" only 3 of them were
    management types .... i also interviewed one person that was part of
    a group that was reorganized along with 2 others resulting in a group
    containing 13 people.. 10 of those folks were managment types and the
    other 3 individual contributor's.. they "rightsized" the group and 
    "tapped" the 3 individual contributor's....sigh..

    We all have good reason to worry about our jobs here.  In addition, we
    should also be worried about our retirement benefits from dec.  By law,
    the type of pension we have is not guarenteed.  The company can cancel
    it at any time.  
    
    If this company continues on its present course, and I see more
    evidence of it every day, it's profits will continue to decline while
    management ranks continue to grow.  When this company gets into a
    serious cash crunch, it is stupid enough to cancel pensions.
    
    I know you touchie-feelie folks will try and discount this but the fact
    remains this company, when up against the wall, will do anything to
    stay in business and history has proved over and over again that 
    this company is capable of not knowing the right thing to do.
    
    Unless you sock away a lot of money on your own (who can these days)
    your pension, which you will live on through retirement, depends on
    the continued success of the company.
    
    Personally, on its present course, I believe this company will be 
    out of business within 15 years, l;ong before most of us retire.
    Oh, I almost forgot, your stock will be very good for wall paper.

    I don't think people in revenue-generating positions would be laid off. 
    
    (But that could be just wishful thinking!)
    
    Cathy

	... or be forecast to start soon!  125 EIS people were let go
last week due to either revenue-producing forecast or performance, ac-
cording to the company line.

    re: pensions
    
    I believe that pension money paid by the employer for an employee's
    retirement is put into some sort of gov'mint guaranteed fund,is it not?
    Since I believe the money is out of DEC's reach,it *is* safe.
    
    Ken

    Digital pension funds (as are all US companies) are segregated from the
    general funds of the company.  Digital pension funds are managed by
    fund managers external to the company.  The fund managers are selected
    by Digital's treasurer and CFO with the approval of the Board of
    Directors.
    
    Federal laws and regulations called ERISA enforce this segregation and
    a conservative investing policy.
    
    The above is correct to my knowledge, but not official.

	In The UK the pension fund is also independant - it is not funds that
	company can decide to dip into. It is protected by law.

	Heather
	

    safe job?  guess again.
    
    I work for customer training... a pretty big revenue generator... with
    a nice high margin...
    
    a LOT of trainers here think they are 'safe'... but, were mightily
    surprized when one of their own was ISP's out from Santa Clara and
    another from San Diego about two weeks ago.
    
    no one is 'safe' in my opinion... and no group is safe either.  all it
    takes is for Z or someone else to point the finger and, just like
    Houdini, POOOOOOF!  you've disappeared!
    
    tony

    re: .13
    
> But you better be generating revenue NOW, ...
>... or be forecast to start soon!  125 EIS people were let go
>last week due to either revenue-producing forecast or performance, ac-
>cording to the company line.
    
    Well, around here (DC) we were told that being billable was NO
    guarantee.  The criteria used was (supposedly) skill set with respect
    to targetted business.  In our geography, this meant that people with
    only system management skills were on the bottom of the heap, while
    people with project experience, database, imaging, and networks were in
    the best positions.
    
    A person's billable status was discounted if it were possible to
    replace him/her with someone with a more desirable skill set.
    
    One person who was let go last week reportedly had primarily a VMS system
    management skill set.
    
    -- Russ

    RE: pension benefits
    
    I'm trying to dig this up from years ago, and the laws may have
    changed, but this is what I remember...
    
    The company incurs a "liability" to pay you pension benefits.  They
    meet this future liability by investing company money with fund
    managers.  Since no company sets aside the full dollar amount of that
    future obligation today, they expect the fund to earn enough by the
    time you retire to meet the company's pension liability to you.
    
    
    The amount of money in the fund at any given time is the FUNDED portion
    of the pension plan.  The company's total pension payment obligation
    minus the funded portion equals the UNFUNDED portion.
    
    I believe the funded portion is 'protected'.  But the unfunded portion
    is not guaranteed and is not safe.
    
    Hope this is still CLOSE to being right...
    
    Steve

    	Customer Support is relatively safe.  Not only are we not 
    	downsizing, but CSC has recently added a bunch of new 
    	people.  Some were even externally hired.
    
    	Of course, the safest ones are those who are direct labor.
    	CSC did downsize some indirect labor.
    
    	But even if DEC never made or sold another piece of hardware,
    	the existing customer base would still want/expect service
    	from somewhere.  If DEC folded, another company would form
    	to handle that service.
    
    	As an example, Customer Service is about the only revenue WANG
    	is generating today...
    
    	Joe Oppelt

I would imagine that jobs are fairly safe in groups which are hiring
externally. eg. VMS in Scotland was advertising job vacancies for
Engineers in the Scottish papers yesterday (see the marvin::scotland
conference for details)

Craig

    << .0 Are there job positions that are safe from a lay off? >>
    
    Only the management positions, which is incredible, considering the
    the number of unecessary management positions this company has created
    
    

	When the turk came through or EIS organization and said folks,

	The Coach wants to see you, and bring your playbook!

	He only nailed individual contributors.

	The people in my organization who were cut were non-revenue and/or
	individuals who had a history of serious problems at customer sites.

	Overall, it was probably time for the turk to visit.


	However, when we were all called to visit the turk as a group
	to inform us of what happened, we were told EIS trimmed only
	125 individual contributors.  No management folks were touched
	in EIS.

	Many of us know that DEC/EIS management is infallable and it was
	very important that we recognized the contributions they were 
	making to the bottom line.  Especially when all the DM's in the
	company were told they were "4" performers.  

	I have one very close friend who was in the CSSE organization
	get the package.  He was selected simply because he was giving
	a "4" on his last PA.  Having been his friend for 11 years and
	also know several of his co-workers and seen their work.  He
	was one of the brightest "techies" in DEC.  His only fault was
	being naive.  

	If a "4" performance rating was the basic criteria, why are
	many of these outstanding management types still here?

    This is not true, in a district in which I used to work an EIS manager
    WAS tapped on the shoulder!
    
    Lynn