Conference 7.286::digital

	... but we already have in place a very profitable "outplacement" 
method - called "service delivery" from EIS or Customer Services!  If our 
services can be sold to the customer as a valuable addition to their 
operation, they WILL pay the rates!  EIS Project services especially can 
include various disiplines, experience levels, even management.

	Past history has us "giving away" services rather than selling them, 
but the account managers with revenue AND profit goals this next FY may find 
their methods changing!

	As to your "original" intent, that too would be a major departure from 
DEC culture, probably viewed as "unethical"!  Too much like IBM!

    I strongly agree with the idea that we help outplace some of our
    employees that may see their jobs go away, with our customers. I
    submitted this to DELTA last October but was told unofficially that
    if DEC set up an outplacement center to encourage this type of
    activity it would look too much like a layoff. I have personally
    heard of two jobs within our customer base but could not find where
    to submit them. Maybe we need a notes file on customer required
    openings now that we are using the "L" word. We could call it the
    LOYAL ALUMNI. It certainly would provide us with a base of loyal
    customers not to mention the good will generated by being able to
    tell someone whose job has gone away that we can fix you up with
    an interview with one of our customers, say right at the "job
    center" in Maynard.

IMHO (see other notes), establishing a formal process to "post" customer 
openings creates more problems than it solves.

I understand the desire to help others ease the pain of finding a replacement
job, but consider the flip side.

If we believe that layoffs are directed at jobs that are "redundant" (and let's
not scamper down that rathole for now), then the bulk of the people who might
be available simply don't have the skills our customers need.

It's hard to retain the really good people, and this proposal seems to just make
it easier for the people we need most, those with very specialized DEC-related
skills, to find reasons to leave the company.  It's not uncommon for project
contracts to have a mutual non-hire clause, such that both Digital and the 
customer promise not to hire away each other's current employees for x period
of time after the project. 

On the surface, the proposal seems to make sense, but I'm not sure if it's
something that can reasonably be implemented.

	/M

>If we believe that layoffs are directed at jobs that are "redundant" (and let's
>not scamper down that rathole for now), then the bulk of the people who might
>be available simply don't have the skills our customers need.

	Redundancy does not mean that these people do not have the skills our
customers need. It only means that their abilities are duplicated at the
various DEC sites, or that their skills are no longer required. This also does 
    not mean that they do not have other skills/ abilities that our customers 
    may find useful.
    

>It's hard to retain the really good people, and this proposal seems to just make
>it easier for the people we need most, those with very specialized DEC-related
>skills, to find reasons to leave the company.  It's not uncommon for project
>contracts to have a mutual non-hire clause, such that both Digital and the 
>customer promise not to hire away each other's current employees for x period
>of time after the project. 

	Why is it hard to retain good people? If a person has specific skills/
abilities that DEC values, then it behooves DEC to insure that these people are
properly compensated for this. This is the main reason why most people leave 
companies. The other is work environment, which again goes back to how well DEC
treats its employees. If "good people" leave via this such a process, then they
probably are not happy at DEC for one of the above reasons.

	I came from an R&D company where I worked for 8 years and where we
never worried about layoffs. I feel (IMHO) that DEC has some responsibility to 
    help it employees find jobs, epecially when the personnel are being 
    layed off due to redundancies. I agree that if someone is fired for being
    not performing their job that DEC has no responsibility to that person
    to help them find additinal employment. 
    
	BUt we are talking here about layoffs, due to slow sales, poor
    planning, lack of market forecasting, overhiring, etc. Most of the
    reasons are well outside the influence of the people actually being layed
    off. I personally would like to see such a process put into effect
    here.
    
    Brian

>        <<< Note 1375.3 by SICML::LEVIN "My kind of town, Chicago is" >>>
    
>If we believe that layoffs are directed at jobs that are "redundant" (and let's
>not scamper down that rathole for now), then the bulk of the people who might
>be available simply don't have the skills our customers need.
    
    <flame on>
    
    Yet another example of the blatant arrogance that this company is full of.
    
    Just because DEC doesn't need a skill doesn't mean that another (more
    far-sighted; more innovative; more cost-conscious; more [<-- add your own
    epithet here]) company doesn't.
    
    <flame off>
    
    I found my own place in DEC following a lay-off from a DEC-competitor. 
    That company made known to others (their competitors and customers) that
    there was a pool of skilled labour available.  It made resources
    available to the likes of DEC (personnel handled the application forms,
    booked hotels for the DEC recruiters, made interview facilities
    available etc. etc.).
    
    DEC acquired a pool of highly skilled, experienced people which it
    would have taken them years to find using the "traditional" methods. 
    (Perhaps in modesty I should say "present company may be excepted!")
    
    This is an excellent idea, in my opinion; one which would not only generate
    good-will among customers or potential customers but also help improve
    the morale of those of us left after the layoffs by showing that the
    company DOES care.
    
    The service should be available only to those "selected" for
    redundancy/transition, or whatever the latest word is.  That way it
    ISN'T an incentive for good people to leave - if they leave under their
    own steam then this service isn't available to them.
    
    And if companies have "mutual non-hire" clauses then they won't bother
    applying for people.
    
    Mike

    
    I'd like to reinforce that the basic idea has to objectives:
    
    	1. Support our good people in finding a job, and this is of course
    	   well understood nowdays.
    
    	2. Have DEC culture more present within our Customer's organizations.
    
    
    I'd like to tell that since we are talking about "GOOD PEOPLE", I don't
    see this proces as unethic at all.
    Good people will support our Customers in making good choices first of
    all for the Customers and when Digital products/services will be the 
    best choice, Digital will benefit of it.
    
    
    IMHO I think we have quite nothing to learn from Big Blue on products
    and technology, but a lot on marketing an selling processes/methodologies.
    
    I feel that if we really want to strongly encrease our market share, we
    have to do this "too mutch IBM like" type of things.
    Of course taking into account one of our DEC VALUES: HONESTY.
    
    Regards.
    	Angelo

    >	As far as I know IBM does it as a quite standard process
    
    My customers often ask us for recommendations on employees. But we
    are very hesitant to make recommendations, because we can really
    only guarantee the quality of the products we sell. Because of the
    close, valuable, relationship held with our customers, we are VERY
    hesitant to be held responsible for a possible "bad" recommendation. 
    
    >	"What about outplacing some (not all of course) of our 
    >	 VERY GOOD people (mgrs included) to our strategic 
    >	 Costomers  ?"
    
    Would we RELOCATE outsourced software engineers at Digital's expense? 
    
    No.
    
    Our customers are still hiring (although a little more slowly now) 
    the skilled people that DEC is now laying off. 
    
    Take a couple of examples: 
    
    	a) a layout drafter whose job is replaced by CAD tools
    
    	b) a PC board technicial whose manufacturing operation moved
    	   off-shore to a subcontractor in Indonesia
    
    
    To tell you the truth, we are telling our customers to:
    
    	a) also purchase CAD tools for their layouts
    
    	b) also move their PCB operations offshore
    
    So that we aren't going to put as much effort into outplacement
    as we will into selling/consulting on technologies. 

Mods, did a DIR/TITLE=OUTPLACEMENT and this was the only topic. Figured I'd
    reply to this than create a new one.
    
    Will the following be a replacement or supplement to outplacement
    services that one receives as part of TFSO? Will this lead to decreased
    spending with DBM?
    
    kjg
    
Subject: VNS #3198  Mon 21-Nov-1994                                  

<><><><><><><><>  T h e   V O G O N   N e w s   S e r v i c e  <><><><><><><><>

 Digital, M/A-Com - $5.3 million grant to retrain workers
	{The Nashua Telegraph, 19-Nov-94, p. 7}
   About 3,400 current and former workers in defense work at the companies will
 benefit from the grants to fund job search and retraining programs, the
 Department of Labor said Friday.  The grants are intended to help the workers
 rebuild marketable skills and find new jobs, both within their companies and
 at new employers.  One grant, for $4.75 million, will help former Digital
 workers in Mass. and New Hampshire at three training sites, one of which is in
 Nashua.  The workers will receive skill assessment and career counseling, job
 search assistance, entrepreneurial training and support services such as child
 care and transportation.  The second grant, of $560,000, will provide training
 to 1,000 non-managerial workers at M/A-Com's plants in Lowell, Amesbury,
 Burlington and Waltham, Mass.  Suzanne Teegarden, executive director of
 Labor's Industrial Services Program in Boston, said the program has already
 started work and anticipates about 800 Digital workers will take advantage of
 the service being offered in Nashua.


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<><><><><><><><>   VNS Edition : 3198      Monday 21-Nov-1994   <><><><><><><><>