| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 1370.1 | We should just stay out of it | ITASCA::SCOTTG | Greg Scott, Minneapolis SWS | Sun Feb 10 1991 02:33 | 15 |
| I saw that article, too, and had a hard time believing it.
But, realistically, what can Digital do? If we freeze out Executive
Software from our technical specs and so on, we are faced with a
possible anti-trust lawsuit. I don't think we really associate much
with those guys, and we certainly don't endorse their product over
their competetors. In fact, the press speculates they may soon be
*our* competetion.
I think Digital would be smart to not take any position on this one.
Lots of software companies operate in our market, and some of 'em have
their quirks. It's a free-enterprise system.
- Greg Scott
|
| 1370.2 | Conference pointer | SDSVAX::SWEENEY | God is their co-pilot | Sun Feb 10 1991 11:32 | 6 |
| I don't see what this has to do with Digital, Digital employees, or the
business practices of Digital.
If you want to discuss the aspects of this controversy as it relates to
Executive Software, psychiatry, and scientology see PEAR::SOAPBOX
note 737.
|
| 1370.3 | | CVG::THOMPSON | Semper Gumby | Sun Feb 10 1991 13:44 | 9 |
| RE: .0 Sure we have such policies. We don't do business with
South Africa for example. It's rightness or wrongness depends
mostly on what side of the issue you are on.
The spicifics of this case (.0) probably doesn't relate to
this conference though. The pointer to SOAPBOX in .2 is a
good one.
Alfred
|
| 1370.4 | | BRULE::MICKOL | You can call me Keno... | Mon Feb 11 1991 00:16 | 6 |
| From the Disk Defragmenter discussion at DECUS, I'm not sure we consider
Executive Software a business partner (at least with regards to Diskeeper).
Strange story, though... Glad you mentioned it.
Jim
|
| 1370.6 | This is not a SOAPBOX topic | DUGROS::ROSS | Gone | Mon Feb 11 1991 08:08 | 14 |
| Whether or not Digital takes an active or passive role in treatment of
3rd parties who "offend" our customers is not relevant to the way Digital
works??? What am I missing?
Would we provide techincal support to the KKK if they bought a VAX to
manage their member list? Would we supply technical help to software
vendor who would not hire women?
Does the fact that several ex-DEC personnel work for Executive Software
have something to do with the censorship of this topic?
As I said in the base note, the issue isn't Scientology or Ritalin, the
issue is what does DEC do in these situations - pretend they don't exist
or use its power to protect our customers?
|
| 1370.7 | | COVERT::COVERT | John R. Covert | Mon Feb 11 1991 08:44 | 19 |
| re .6
Maybe you don't understand.
Any company in the country which makes products that run on DEC hardware
is a "3rd party vendor".
There is no special relationship between DEC and Executive Software.
Maybe you think they are a "Co-operative Marketing Partner".
They aren't. They are just a random company, just like any company
that uses our products to develop software that runs on our products.
There is no censorship of this topic; there has just been the suggestion
that Executive Software has nothing to do with DEC, and therefor nothing
to do with this conference. Such discussions belong in PEAR::SOAPBOX.
/john
|
| 1370.8 | I don't know who their customers are, but ... | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Mon Feb 11 1991 10:21 | 7 |
| re .6:
> Would we supply technical help to software
>vendor who would not hire women?
There's a Riyadh Field Management Team and a Saudi Distributor listed in
the DEC phone book.
|
| 1370.9 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Mon Feb 11 1991 15:09 | 10 |
| What's more astonishing about the situation described in the base note is that
Executive Software's president was quoted as saying that Ciba-Giegy are "scum".
I would certainly hope that Digital, if it chose not to do business with
some potential customer, would be more circumspect about it.
And a word of caution - please refrain from making accusations about any
of Digital's current customers. This could not only lose us business but
could be legally risky as well.
Steve
|
| 1370.10 | | PSW::WINALSKI | Careful with that VAX, Eugene | Fri Feb 15 1991 21:23 | 32 |
| In direct response to the two questions in .0:
> 1. Does Digital have any similar policies?
Digital generally does not place restrictions on sales based on the intended use
of the products by the customer, or based on attributes of the customer's
business. The exceptions that I'm aware of are:
- We don't do business in South Africa. (However, is this our policy, or are
we merely complying with the U.S. government's program of economic sanctions?)
- There was at one time (and may still be) a policy about the use of our
computer equipment in certain real-time control applications where failure of
our products could cause direct danger to human life or limb. For example,
use of PDP-11s or VAX systems for direct control of nuclear reactors, or in
avionics control systems.
> 2. Why would Digital want to have anything to do with a company
> like Executive Software, who would be capable of offending our
> important customers? Should Digital treat Executive Software
> like they have treated Ciba-Geigy?
We don't have any business relationship with Executive Software. They are not
a cooperative marketing partner, as far as I know. They are merely a software
vendor one of whose products happens to run on our hardware and operating
system. Their business and customer relatinos practices are none of Digital's
business.
In my opinion, we should not treat *anybody* like Executive Software has
treated Ciba-Geigy.
--PSW
|
| 1370.11 | Sales and service | TLE::AMARTIN | Alan H. Martin | Fri Feb 15 1991 22:33 | 21 |
| Re .10:
>- There was at one time (and may still be) a policy about the use of our
> computer equipment in certain real-time control applications where failure of
> our products could cause direct danger to human life or limb. For example,
> use of PDP-11s or VAX systems for direct control of nuclear reactors, or in
> avionics control systems.
As I recall, it was slightly more precisely "direct control of nuclear reactors"
and "air traffic control" (maybe even "*civilian* air traffic control"). I was
quite amazed that Pat Sweeney was able to supply an authoritative reference and
excerpts in a note in the Marketing conference a few years ago (as opposed to it
being a folk tale). Since it may not even be in the current version of
Marketing, I'm not going to go look it up. If anyone really cares, perhaps Pat
can identify the source.
BTW, if the situation is that the 3rd party is refusing to honor their own
warrantee or service contract, it would seem that they're all set to be sued by
their customer.
/AHM
|
| 1370.12 | Well, isn't that .... special? | SDSVAX::SWEENEY | God is their co-pilot | Fri Feb 15 1991 23:38 | 220 |
| After the <FF> the United States policy on "special applications"
From: USOPS::SALES_POLICY "U.S. Sales/Operations Policy and Procedure" 15-FEB-1991 23:38:11.63
To: SDSVAX::SWEENEY
CC:
Subj: TIDE_MAIL:050316.TXT from U.S. Sales and Operations
U.S. Sales / Operations Policies and Procedures
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Policy 1.1.8 Screen 1 of 5 | Issue Date: 05-03-88
Special Applications | Review Date: 12-17-90
| Approval: US OPS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REVISION SUMMARY
This policy has been revised to include additional Airspace Management and
Aircraft Products that have been identified as Special Applications and to
include an updated list of Special Application contacts.
OBJECTIVE
Digital has taken action to minimize its liability when directly or indirectly
selling into particular application areas where it may be exposed to greater
than normal financial risks. The Corporate Special Applications Committee
(SAC) has been established to evaluate the risk of doing business in
"high-risk" markets. A high-risk market is one that poses potentially large
financial exposure to Digital in the event of a catastrophe. This financial
burden may result from extensive loss of life, significant loss of property, or
protracted disruption of normal business operations.
This policy has been established to maintain Digital's financial liability
with respect to high-risk markets at a level comparable to other markets.
POLICY STATEMENT
Digital's policy is to participate in certain markets only if it can be done
such that it limits Digital's liability to a level comparable with its other
businesses. Digital's goal is to balance its ability to sell into high-risk
markets with its ability to absorb the risk associated with implementation in
those markets.
Digital will participate in sales to these markets only after reviewing the
proposed application and evaluating its associated risk. Therefore, any
application in the defined "Special" applications markets (see below) must be
reviewed and evaluated by the U.S. Special Applications Committee and may
require additional contractual protection.
SPECIAL APPLICATIONS
The following markets have been defined as "Special Applications" and must be
reviewed and approved on a case-by-case basis:
o NUCLEAR -
All Nuclear Applications, including but not limited to Nuclear Power
Generation, Nuclear Fuel Enrichment, Nuclear Waste Handling and Disposal,
and Nuclear Decontamination facilities.
o AIRSPACE MANAGEMENT AND AIRCRAFT PRODUCTS -
- Air Traffic Control (ATC) and systems utilized by ATC, including but not
limited to, Computer Controlled Radar Systems, Meteorological Data
Systems, Aircraft Onboard Avionics, Flight Information Systems, ATC
Training and Communication Systems.
FOR DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY
U.S. Sales / Operations Policies and Procedures
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Policy 1.1.8 Screen 2 of 5 | Issue Date: 05-03-88
Special Applications | Review Date: 12-17-90
| Approval: US OPS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Air Defense
- Air Surveillance
- Command Control Information
- Aircraft products, including but not limited to missiles, spacecraft,
ground support or control systems
o TRANSPORTATION -
- All mass transit applications, including but not limited to Rail
Transportation Systems.
PROCEDURE
SALES
o Identify customer's special application in the defined markets being sold
directly by Digital or indirectly through an Original Equipment Manufacturer
(OEM).
o Identify other market areas not yet defined that potentially expose Digital
to significant financial risk.
o Obtain Customer Declaration Form cover sheet and Customer Declaration Form
from SAC committee member.
o Complete and sign cover sheet.
o Assist customer in filling out Special Applications Customer Declaration
Form.
o Collect supporting data (RFP, customer product specification, etc.).
o Forward documentation to DOM/Specialist.
o Once SAC approval has been obtained, notify customer of approval/rejection,
send original copy of all approved documents and applications to
Sales Administration at MRO3-3/U13.
DOM (DISTRICT OPERATIONS MANAGER)
o Review application documentation for completeness and forward to Corporate
SAC for review/approval.
o Notify Sales of approval/rejection of Special Application by SAC.
JOINT - DOM/SALES
FOR DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY
U.S. Sales / Operations Policies and Procedures
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Policy 1.1.8 Screen 3 of 5 | Issue Date: 05-03-88
Special Applications | Review Date: 12-17-90
| Approval: US OPS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
o Standard terms and conditions - proceeds as normal.
o Special terms and conditions - Sales, Regional Business Negotiators, and/or
Law negotiate the contract with the customer.
o Final contract MUST be signed by a Digital V.P. (Special Applications
Corporate Chairman).
CORPORATE SAC
o Set policy direction and recommend policy changes to the Executive
Committee.
o Provide policy clarification and interpretation for Field.
o Review customer's Special Application documentation and evaluate Digital's
financial exposure.
o Make decision to accept or reject the Special Application and communicate
approval/rejection to DOM.
o Monitor and evaluate legislative trends and legal theories related to
Special Applications.
o Ensure proper level of Special Applications training exists to properly
educate the Field.
o Act as consultant on Special Applications issues related to risk management,
legal issues, and technology.
o Meet quarterly to review action items, progress, etc. on a worldwide
basis, publish and distribute meeting minutes to Field Subcommittees.
o Ensure consistent implementation of this policy worldwide.
SAC FIELD SUBCOMMITTEES (US, EUROPE, GIA)
o Implement policy in respective geography (Europe, GIA, US) consistent
with the Corporate guidelines.
o Review all application forms submitted in defined market areas within
the geography.
o Assist DOM/Sales negotiate Special Application contract with customers.
o Develop procedures for review and audit of Special Applications approved
to ensure that the contract is being implemented in a compliant fashion.
o Maintain a local geographic data base containing the following:
Corporate SAC meeting minutes, concise customer input forms, all
decision information, i.e., normal sale, special sale, no sale.
FOR DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY
U.S. Sales / Operations Policies and Procedures
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Policy 1.1.8 Screen 4 of 5 | Issue Date: 05-03-88
Special Applications | Review Date: 12-17-90
| Approval: US OPS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
U.S. FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
Applicable.
SERVICES
Applicable, covered under this policy to be consistent with hardware decisions.
Customer Services Account Support Reps and/or Customer Services Account
Managers who encounter Special Applications should work with Sales and the
DOM to ensure that proper approval has been obtained.
CONTACT
FOR DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY
U.S. Sales / Operations Policies and Procedures
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Policy 1.1.8 Screen 5 of 5 | Issue Date: 05-03-88
Special Applications | Review Date: 12-17-90
| Approval: US OPS
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EXHIBIT
FOR DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY
|
| 1370.13 | Evidently, SAC does allow some things... | SCAACT::AINSLEY | Less than 150 kts. is TOO slow | Sun Feb 17 1991 11:55 | 5 |
| We do a lot of business with NASA and the FAA in Oklahoma City. I did
notice that the newest Air Traffic Control (ATC) training simulator
does NOT use any of our computers.
Bob
|