Conference 7.286::digital

    I have always wondered why we didn't do that. It would cut down on the 
    expensive carbon forms, math errors, time spent. Sounds like a good
    idea for DELTA.
    
    - John
    

	I have access to an electronic expense voucher for VMS (and there
	is one for Ultrix) that is exactly what you want.  Petty Cash
	even accepts it because it looks JUST LIKE the real one.

	Send mail and I'll give you the location.

	Angeline

Alan Kotok did a nice expense voucher for the Macintosh (Excel) that I
ported to WingZ (Macintosh).  There are minor problems with petty cash
as it doesn't generate a pouch to stuff receipts in, but otherwise
works fine.

Martin.

	... Internal Purchase Req. system that, I think, automatically routes
it through the approval chain, and finally out on paper for mailing.

	Also, the US EIS organization is using an on-line time recording system
that interfaces to both Order Admin and A/R for invoice generation.  (No flames,
please, I know it's not perfected yet!)

	IMHO, folks, to make a system that does nothing but replace a pen, 
possibly a calculator, with a keyboard and CPU is choking on gnats, to borrow a
phrase.  Let's talk about an expense voucher system that moves it through the
approval chain to Petty Cash, then generates your check, or auto deposit, or
whatever is in some profile.

    VOUCHER
    
    VOUCHER (Verification Of Unreasonable Claims for Hotels, Expenses, &
    Restaurants) is an on-line employee expense voucher form.  Fill in
    VOUCHER the same way you fill in the paper employee expense claim form, but
    without the Liquid Paper. When you are finished, you can print a PostScript
    file   that looks exactly like the paper expense voucher, but much neater,
    and can  be given to someone in Finance.  All expense vouchers are saved in
    files (default file name: SYS$LOGIN:VOUCHER.DAT) and can be recalled should
    you need to make changes later.
    
    VOUCHER expense-file [/EMPLOYEE] [/MISCELLANEOUS] [/COMPANY][/VERSION]
    
      VOUCHER must be invoked on a VT terminal or in a dxterm window.
    
    Pressing the Help key displays VOUCHER's key map.  Pressing RETURN
    moves the cursor to the next field that can be filled. The arrow keys move 
    the cursor to any field.  The cursor cannot be moved to a field that 
    depends on information from another field or screen; for example, SUBTOTAL
    (A+B). These fields are filled and updated automatically whenever the other
    fields change.
    
    When you are finished with one screen (there are five), bring up the
    next by pressing the appropriate keypad key (KP1 for screen 1, and so on). 
    You can display any screen in any order as often as you like until all your
    expenses are sufficiently padded to cover your bar tab.
    
      Pressing the Enter key in screen 5 creates a new voucher output file
      (default filename: SYS$LOGIN:VOUCHER.PS).
    
      The default input file is SYS$LOGIN:VOUCHER.DAT.
    
      Additional information available:
    
      Printing_a_voucher    VOUCHER$MILEAGE_RATE  VOUCHER$OUTPUT
      VOUCHER$QUEUE         /EMPLOYEE  /MISCELLANEOUS        /COMPANY  
    /VERSION
    

	... because today I get a mailing about the new Traveletter/Expense
Service Center for my Region, and the back page has "helpful hints", one of
which is about an electronic form from DECWET::SYS$PUBLIC:VOUCHER.SAV!

	Now I HAVE to see what this is!

    Wow!  I don't believe this is now in the public domain.  The on-line
    voucher was developed by Carey Fujii at DECwest Engineering here in
    Bellevue, Washington.   The "documentation" (help function) was done
    by Bill Muse. 
    
    I sent the location to my Finance org in Nashua, and it looks like it
    spread from there.  
    
    The voucher program is simply an on-line version of the employee
    expense voucher.  You fill it out on your screen and send it to a
    postscript printer.  
    
    To the naysayer who didn't see the advantage of this, all I can say
    is that he must have never worked in Finance.  We love it because it
    ensures that columns and rows add up, and that the Misc. on the front
    actually agrees to the detail on the back.  It cuts the processing
    time way down.
    
    Try it, you'll like it!
    
    Pete

	... now I know where Karl got his text - the .HLP file! :>)

	Pete, I didn't mean to sound THAT negative, but doing paperwork has
never been a problem for me, I came from a past life in the military!  Nor has
making rows and columns add up!  I also keep good daily records while on travel,
and that makes filling out forms very easy for me.

	I'll give this a try, just for grins.  I already use a DECalc spreadsheet
to keep track of my AMEX card charges, reimbursements, and payments, so I'm
not COMPLETELY opposed to automation.

	re: .6

		That is the same voucher that I have been giving
	pointers to - I wasn't sure if DECWET wanted a public
	location announced, so I was doing it individually.

	It is WONDERFUL!!!!!!!  I can't say enough about it.

	Petty Cash said they won't except it unless it "LOOKS EXACTLY
	LIKE THE PAPER ONE"

	Well, it does and now they do!

	Just staple your receipts in a envelope to it and turn it in!

	How do we go about giving Carey and Bill some sort of recognition
	for this?  

	Angeline

Layered products required? Looks like it at least needs FMS...

/Petes

    re: .9
    
    Angeline, you used to work here, right?  Do you know Carey and Bill?
    If so, you know what you could send them that they could use.
    Personality transplants!  That's the ticket!
    
    Actually, you could just send 'em a note telling them you are getting
    hours of enjoyment from their product.
    
    One word of caution to anyone using the VOUCHER program.  There's a
    slight bug in it.  If you enter an amount and later remove it,
    sometimes the new total does not calculate correctly in the right hand
    total column.  Carey is working to find and correct this bug.  You
    might want to install a new version of the program in a few weeks.
    
    Pete 

    Any chance of getting a Plan A car form done like VOUCHER ?  Is the
    source available 
    
    Thanks -
    
    Todd (who has convinced an entire office to use VOUCHER !)

There's a spreadsheet in 20/20 that takes the location code and
automatically lookups the mileage and compute the mileage reimbursement.
The data base assumes that you're working in the Mill.

You can then submit the Special Mileage forms directly to Petty cash
(The note authorizing the use of this form is attached.)

To use, just input the following file into 20/20:

/Storage Read   Sloan::my$data:mileage

and fill in the dates and site location.  Put a ' before the date
to  indicate the data is not a number. Otherwise  10/10/90 becomes 90.


Or copy the following files over:

Sloan::my$data:mileage*.*;

MILEAGE.TXT;5              3/3       16-MAR-1990 16:58:22.26  (RWED,RWED,RE,RE)
MILEAGE.W20;4             39/39       9-OCT-1990 08:01:15.71  (RWED,RWED,RE,RE)




From:	SLOAN::ASABET::C_BOUCHER    "CATHLEEN BOUCHER #223-7551" 
	13-MAR-1990 15:49:18.93
To:	SLOAN::WRKSYS::HOM
CC:	
Subj:	RE: Mileage Disbursement Form 


I have discussed your situation with my Manager and she agrees that their is 
no problem processing the mileage on the spreadsheet you have provided. 
However, there are two catches:

   1. We will need a hardcopy with hardcopy signatures and badge numbers

   2. You will not have a copy to keep for your records (after it has been
      processed)

I will inform the cashiers at the MLO petty cash office. It might not be a bad
idea to attach a copy of this memo to your vouchers (spreadsheets) for backup.


Regards,
Cathy
 

    I have been assigned the responsibility of identifying a total
    forms solution, which includes the things you have mentioned and
    much much more.
    
    At this time, Digital  sells some forms "tools", like FMS and DECforms
    It would appear that we do not, however, make a comprehensive solution
    system. Such a system would handle data entry either as WYSIWYG or
    via character terminal interfaces, and would support hooks to
    a variety of databases. Such a system should have a clearly defined
    architecture, and archival/forms management capabilities. It would take 
    advantage of certain types of printer features, like PCL and PS support 
    sending down a form as an overlay followed by N copies of the data. 
    It would have logical control over fields within a form for validation, 
    and would allow logical linking of seperate forms , like if your "AGE" 
    is between 35 and 40, this might imply that you need form Q, which is 
    fetched for you automatically. Such a system would also make optimal use 
    of disk space, so that if 5 forms needed your address, only one copy of
    your address would exist, with 5 links to it.  Such a system would
    support CDA formats like DDIF, as well as defacto standards like
    EPSF. It would also support BARCODES. (BARCODES are big business
    and growing.) Oh yes, such a system should have tools that allow
    translation from some very popular FORMS languages, like XEROX's
    FSL language.
    
    Finally, there would need to be support for onsite integration and
    customization of such a system, so that if your business need is
    emulation of a 7 part form, an optimal way to do this can be found.
    (EG: If the pink copy used to be SENT to personnel, why not
    stick a networked, single tray printer in the personnel office,
    and print the pink copy THERE in the first place.) It takes a
    special kind of thought process to provide a solution like that.
    
    I have found that there are a large number of 3rd party software
    firms who specialize in forms solutions, and they do it very well.
    I am at present beginning to evaluate several of these packages, 
    and I am hoping that I will find a general purpose solution that
    can be used by customers and DECCies alike.
    
    If anyone knows of any truly great forms packages or forms providers,
    please send me mail...
    
    

	Pete - Yep I'm one in the same!!  Looks like good things are
	still coming outa DECwest!!  

	re:  <<< Note 1251.14 by REGENT::LEVINE 
                          -< mandated to solve this. >-
    
>    I have found that there are a large number of 3rd party software
>    firms who specialize in forms solutions, and they do it very well.
>    I am at present beginning to evaluate several of these packages, 
>    and I am hoping that I will find a general purpose solution that
>    can be used by customers and DECCies alike.


	I guess my question to you is WHY are we going outside the
	company to find solutions??  It has been shown in this topic
	alone that we can provide the solutions internally - as we
	are doing it.  In my opinion  you should use all the money you 
	will spend on third party applications to pay the engineers within DEC
	to develop the solution.  Then we own it.  And we profit.

	It angers me that we go outside the company a lot for solutions
	when we have perfectly competent engineers here that have more
	than enough ability to solve the problem.  

	Just my HO - Angeline

    I don't want to turn this note into a VMS help conversation, but I
    would appreciate a bit of assistance.  I tried to run the VOUCHER
    program as discussed...got the .sav file from DECWET::, figured out how
    to restore the saveset with BACKUP, and tried RUN VOUCHER.
    
    This is what I got:
    
    %PLI-F-ERROR, PL/I Error Condition
    -CLI-F-SYNTEX, error parsing "EMPLOYEE"
    -CLI-E-ENTF, specified entity not found in command tables
    %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows
     .
     .
     .
     .    (dump)
    
    Do I need some other files?
    
    I am leaving soon for a trip til Tuesday, but would appreciate any help
    and will check then.
    
    thks...charlie
    

Re: problems

	Here is what I did and it worked:

Log in as SYSTEM.  (or have your system manager do this)

$ SET DEF SYS$UPDATE:
$ COPY  DECWET::SYS$PUBLIC:VOUCHER.SAV []
$ BACKUP VOUCHER.SAV/SAVE/LOG []
$ @INSTALL_VOUCHER.COM

Then log in fresh as yourself. Make sure you log in from a real DEC 
terminal or from a DECterm (not an xterm). You can type:

$ HELP VOUCHER
for more information. 

To run the program, type:

$ VOUCHER

It will ask you for a data file name. Give it something that makes sense 
for the voucher you're creating. A screen will come up; press the HELP key 
for more information.

This is the most wonderful thing I have seen online for quite some time - 
we use it here and love it - good luck!

Angeline

    Thks for the info.  Does this mean that I can't use VOUCHER from within
    my own account??
    
    ...charlie

	Charlie

		No - it just means that it needs to be installed from
	the SYSTEM account.

		Then you utilize it from within your own account.


	Angeline

re 1251.5 by KEYS::MOELLER , and others by Jovin

Does it make sense to get this into the TOOLSHED?  I know it is not the
kind of tool that normally is stored there, but I think it has a payoff
if we extend its availability.  Can one or both of you prompt the current
owners/maintainers to take this step?

Regards,

Dick

re 1251.14 by REGENT::LEVINE   -< mandated to solve this. >-

>    I have been assigned the responsibility of identifying a total
>    forms solution, which includes the things you have mentioned and
>    much much more.
    

One of our problems is that we try to do everything in Release 0.  Can't
we separate out some basic functionality to be delivered ASAP (per clone
of VOUCHER) and a plan for future enhancements, just like we do for real
products?

We are all wasting time and money on such things, if we wait until the
hyper-object-oriented-postscript-and-pcl version is available, we will
not get any current benefits, just current costs!

Regards,

Dick

    
    Gee, a guy is gone for a day.
    
    Thanks for starting the whole VOUCHER conversation Angie.  This is the
    same person who was at DECworld Sandbox in '88?
    
    Going to copy it over now.
    
    garrett
    

RE .14 and .23 (and .0) - are you aware of the EBD project?  I believe it stands
for Electronic Business Document(s?), and it is supposed to be just what .0 is
looking for, from what I understand.  There is a notes file at ABBOTT::EBD and
a public directory at MANANA::EBD$PUBLIC.

							-- Nina

P.S. I got this information from my previous supervisor, who is the writing
supervisor for EBD (among other things).  I myself am not involved with EBD.

    
    re: .15 and .21    
    
    slow down here. Nobody is wasting money here. This is not a megabuck
    development project...
    
    ALLOW ME TO CLARIFY:
    Digital is not funding a development project (aside from paying me 
    for a percentage of my time for looking into this) for developing these 
    solutions. We are not providing these 3rd party folks free development 
    platforms. They'll have to buy their VAXstations, disks, memory, etc
    from Digital, which will generate some revenue. And, by the way, I am not
    doing this full time. ALL in all, this was intended to be a VERY small
    project, whose net result should be a solution that satisfies customers
    needs and sells PLENTY of DEC hardware and software. This result is
    desired ASAP, as there is a screaming need for such a product that runs
    on VAXen.
    
    Most of these 3rd party solutions are already developed and shipping 
    on NON DEC platforms. A good example is the electronic IRS filing
    system. Or similar systems developed by 3rd party vendors for major
    insurance companies. I am working with these folks to try and convice 
    them to:
    
    	a	port to VMS, supporting DECterm emulation and X windows 
    		along the way
    
    	b	support DEC file format standards like the CDA formats
    		as well as making sure they are conformant to industry
    		standard PostScript formats.
    
    
    
    RE: Not Invented Here:
    
    I wish I could find a DEC engineered FORMS solution that really IS a
    solution. But whether the solution is developed internally, or outside,
    it HAS to meet most of the functionality spelled out in my
    prior reply. Because our competition (xerox, for one example) ALREADY 
    has this kind of functionality, and they sell some hefty hardware to
    go with it.
    
    Bear in mind, also, that DEC stands to profit greatly from even
    a 3rd party solution, especially if that solution makes optimal use
    of our platforms. Our experience has shown that for every $1 they        
    spend on 3rd party software, they spend over $30 on DEC hardware
    to run it on. (That does not even count what they spend on
    consumables like paper and toner, nor does it count things like
    support contracts and FS contracts.)
    
    And, finally, money talks. We have done similar things in the past and
    generated tens of millions in revenues. Our organization runs at
    profit, and has done so for a long time. Our goal is total customer
    satisfaction.
    
    As I said before, if anyone has any good pointers to any products
    (*supported* products, ours or someone elses) please send me mail.
    Im not going to debate the merits of ISV versus DEC "niche" software
    development here after this note, but I'd be glad engage in a lively
    discussion with you , either by dtn or email.

>        <<< Note 1251.18 by WJOUSM::POLAY "red flops pennant fever�" >>>
>                             -< VOUCHER question >-
>
>    Thks for the info.  Does this mean that I can't use VOUCHER from within
>    my own account??
>    
>    ...charlie
    
    Yes you can run VOUCHER without installing it.  
    
    After unpacking the saveset, edit the VOUCHER.CLD file, and change the
    IMAGE line to point to wherever you put the VOUCHER.EXE image.  Then
    simply do:
    
    	$ set command voucher.cld
    
    Works like a charm.
    
    -Eric  

	Garrett - hi!  guess I can't hide!  ;-)

	There is now a notesfile on VOUCHER at DECWET::VOUCHER!

		Angeline

	... and I like it!  Good job!  In fact, by putting a little stronger
paper in the LPS, and an three strips of Elmer's Glue ....! :>)

    
    For REGENT::LEVINE who wanted WYSIWYG form entry take a look at
    note 1505 in the DECforms notesfile. I have posted a working demo kit
    that uses the IRS 1040 TAX form and a DIGITAL travel letter check as
    background images for doing form data entry in a DECforms program. 
    
    It sounds like the existing VOUCHER program could be easily converted
    to full Workstation screen input with a "real" expense voucher scanned
    form used as the background. In fact DECforms could accomodate both VT
    and workstation formats without the application program worrying about
    the device type (as my demo shows displaying images on VT sixel
    terminals as well as workstations). Also the DEcforms IFDL could be
    easily generated using the Image/Form editor program provided in the
    kit. With the Postscript voucher output the cycle is complete WYSIWYG
    for both input and output.

    SPR (Australia and New Zealand) are currently looking at EARS
    (ALL-IN-1 Electronic Authorization and Routing System).
    
    It is an official digital product, some of our customers have
    expressed interest and we are considering using it internally.
    
    Section 1.1 of the user's guide states:
    
    
    >> EARS automates the work of routing an item for approval.
    >> You can use EARS to do the following:
    
    >>	. Create a review item that you want to route for approval.
    >>    This can be either an ALL-IN-1 document or form or a
    >>    document type external to ALL-IN-1.
    
    >>  . Create a review list.
    
    >>  . Route the review automatically through the review list.
    
    >>  . Add comments to the review item prior to approving
    >>    or rejecting it.
    
    >>  . View review item status during routing.
    
    >>  . Add reviewers to a review list.
    
    >>  . Distribute a review item after routing is complete.
    
    >>  . Specify alternate or surrogate reviewers.
    
    
    Definitely worth considering!