Conference 7.286::digital

    
    
    Well, gee... I'd like to help you out, but . . .  well . . .
    Australia is just a little too much of a commute for me at this time.
    
    
    
    ;-}
    
    
    
    Seriously, folks . . . we've been having a hard time convincing people
    that those itty bitty computers are really complicated little bleeps,
    too.  You have my sympathy (fwiw).
    

    I have had a number of the same type of discussions with various people
    relative to our ability to support what we sell.  What I have been told
    by people, in different groups(so it is not an individual or group
    problem) shows me that either there are many people in this company
    who are downright stupid or they downright don't have any pride or
    integrity in the job they do or the company they work for.
    
    What I have been told is that support is a very low priority.  Our
    priority is to develope functions that our customers want and sell
    it to them, regardless of whether or not we can support it (or 
    whether or not it will work).
    
          a salesman once told me "don't confuse selling with supporting". 
    I thought he was kidding but after my two years + here, I find that he
    and a majority of DEC actually think we can get away with not living up
    to our support commitements to our customers.
    
              This type of thinking will be (IS) DEC's downfall.
    
                      
                            REMEMBER WANG
    
    
    
    
    
    

    re .3
    
>    What I have been told is that support is a very low priority.  Our
>    priority is to develope functions that our customers want and sell
>    it to them, regardless of whether or not we can support it (or 
    
    This is the most horrific idea I have heard in a long time.

    re: <<< Note 1136.3 by BIGUN::SIMPSON "more CPU power than a toaster" >>>
    
>    This is the most horrific idea I have heard in a long time.
    
    I can give you a list of people in Engineering, Product Management,
    and Sales Management that hold this idea sacred.  I can understand
    it from the first two, since they usually seem to believe that the
    customer buys a computer because computers are "neat", rather than
    to solve business problems.  What I can't understand is how Sales
    Management also subscribes to this theory.  Most of the business I
    see is with our current customers, not with new ones.  Does Sales
    really believe that we can jerk them around and still sell them new
    equipment?
    
    NOW I begin to truly understand why all of our customers are asking
    for "open sytems"!!!
    
    Geoff

    I think that .2 hit it right on the head - there are a great number
    of people in the company right now who are downright stupid.
    Unfortunately, some of them are making decisions that will make DEC
    another WANG soon...

    re: .4
    
    I can give you the name of one person in Engineering who doesn't
    believe this: mine.  Hardware revenues will be squeased by small
    shops with "hot boxes".  Software can't be priced too high or
    customers will steal it rather than pay for it.  Our future revenue
    depends on service.  If we get a reputation for poor service we'll
    lose our service customers, and thus the bulk of our future revenue.
        John Sauter

    
    I have no doubt that there are cases where it is easier to get 
    funding to build product, than to get adequate priority for support
    -- even when the product is new, & the business environment unfamiliar
    to our field staff.
    
    I'm responsible for marketing in such an area -- difficult. All
    the re-organisations & head counts in many countries run every
    risk of getting in the way of customer focus.
           
    Not fun to market a mission-critical business practice, & then run
    the risk of not being able to back it up. Looks a dangerous long-term
    strategy to me.
    
    Colin

    The funny thing in this situation is that the issue is no longer that
    of the need for support - that is now a given (for once).  The issue
    now is that we are losing business because of the hiring freeze.  At
    rates somewhere around $A1k/day work out for yourselves what one PSS
    person will bring in when months of work is guaranteed.  That we are
    knowingly throwing this away is what really gets me.  I thought, until
    now, that if all else failed you could get anything done if there were
    enough $$$ in it.  Apparently not.

    re:  <<< Note 1136.8 by BIGUN::SIMPSON "more CPU power than a toaster" >>>
    
>                                                            That we are
>   knowingly throwing this away is what really gets me.  I thought, until
    
    Ever thought of becoming an independent contractor?  I'm not advocating
    this, but I do know of two people who have left DEC almost because of
    the same type of situation.  They became independent contractors and
    went after the business that DEC seems to go out of its way to avoid.
    
    Even though it may be aggravating, sometimes it *does* make good sense
    to walk away from business that is not "right".  And there are some
    not-so-well-known criteria that go into deciding what is "right".  I
    worked in PSS for three years before a DM finally explained to me how
    to spot "right" business.
    
    Anyway, we can't hog all the business in the world; let's leave some
    for the little guys.  After all, you and I may be one of them someday!
    
    Geoff

   re .9
   
   Amusingly, the previous guru on PC's in Australia went the same way. He
   couldn't motivate sufficient interest/support, so he won't into business
   for himself. His first major contract was selling his time back to
   Digital... sigh...
   
   q
   

    re .10
    
    Peter, are you refering to James M. or Peter C.?  Didn't they both work
    for us?  I think I know the one you mean - he charged Digital the rates we
    charge our customers!!!
    
    re .9
    
    Don't think that I haven't considered the option.  There are times when
    I really think Digital management doesn't deserve the people who work
    for them.  This isn't 'wrong' business we're losing, it's 'key'
    business.  PCSA isn't peripheral anymore, it's core because it is
    (at least currently) the bulk of NAS.  We can't 'integrate' the desktop
    without it.  (Which isn't really the point - we are knowingly losing
    business because the head-count figures aren't 'right').

   re .11
   
   Yeah, them. James M and Peter K. (not C). I have occasionally mused, that
   with a little venture capital (which is still easy to get), and a small
   select group of people poached from Digital (in any geography), a merciless
   business person could bring digital's operations in that area to it's
   knees.
   
   q

    re: .12
    
    When you think about it, Digital has a long history of spawning new
    companies.  The list of people who have become disenchanted with DEC
    politics and who have broken off and started new companies is long
    and distinguished.  It's probably a more recent phenomenon in the
    Field, but it is growing every day.  The really funny thing is that
    DEC hires a fair number of it's own ex-employees as contractors, 
    so I guess it benefits us, too, I think ... somehow ... huh?
    
    Geoff
    

re: < Note 1136.13 by AUSTIN::UNLAND "Sic Biscuitus Disintegratum" >
    
>                                        The really funny thing is that
>   DEC hires a fair number of it's own ex-employees as contractors, 
>   so I guess it benefits us, too, I think ... somehow ... huh?
    
For sure it does... we have lower headcount numbers this way.

Lee

       <<< Note 1136.4 by AUSTIN::UNLAND "Sic Biscuitus Disintegratum" >>>
                    -< DEC is certainly no discount store! >-

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    to solve business problems.  What I can't understand is how Sales
    Management also subscribes to this theory.  Most of the business I

 { Is this because the current Sales Managers were Sales Reps when
  selling Digital products was quite different than it is today and they've 
  become out of touch?

 Glen
 }