| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 1044.1 | A less-than-horror story | SAGE::ROSS | Doug Vs. The Volcano | Thu Mar 08 1990 11:15 | 30 |
| I'll offer a counter to the story in .0
I sent in my resume to COD II in December with specific interests in
the Southern area and Mid-Central area. I was unable to attend the
sessions in Marlboro due to a conflict with training, so I just wrote
it off as a missed opportunity. {Note: I was not in a pressing need to
change jobs, just looking to see what was out there in areas with
better climates and housing markets}.
After COD II, the phone calls started coming in... Orlando, Charlotte,
Memphis, Philly, Washington D.C., Landover... All were interested in
having me come out for interviews. It must be a matter of skill sets
that are of interest as I am more oriented toward databases and applications
programming.
Since Charlotte was the only place from above that interested me, I declined
all the other offers to come down. I went down to Charlotte on a Friday
and was interviewed by three managers and three peers all in one day. There
was a group of five people being interviewed that day and the process was
handled very smoothly and professionally. The managers expressed interest
in me and said they would get back to me in "a couple weeks". Here was where
the only hitch I encountered came about. I waited two weeks and then
started calling asking for information on what was going on. It took a
couple days and several phone calls to get the answers, but it has now
progressed to the point of an offer which I am deciding on at the moment.
My comment on the process would be that it is probably a very seat-of-the-pants
operation that was put into place without complete planning. The driving
force in the matter seems to be the local management and the demand for
specific skills.
|
| 1044.2 | Yes and no | VERITA::BAHLIN | | Thu Mar 08 1990 14:12 | 14 |
| re: .1 by Sage::Ross
You're right about the possibility of great differences dependent on
area/district/mangers etc. I certainly don't mean to imply that
every person recruiting in the company is incompetent. But, having
said that, I still think something is badly broken in a major way.
Even if I have absolutely zero skills match though, someone (from simple
courtesy alone) needs to tell me that. If I have three eyes or
can't put together a sentence in front of a customer, I need to be told
so that I can either adjust my goal or retrain myself. This vital
feedback is not happening to a lot of people that I know to be in the
hunt for work.
|
| 1044.3 | squandering valuable resources | XCUSME::KOSKI | This NOTE's for you | Thu Mar 08 1990 17:25 | 14 |
| Having worked in one of our illustrious employment offices, I see
all to many truths in the base note. I can only say I wish it would
get as much attention as the "It's not my job" note. But what happened
did not directly effect a customer, it's "only" effecting one of
our own.
After seeing Ken on Chronicle I had a warm fuzzy feeling that he
really does care about his employees, I don't think any one of the
people that have influence is letting this type of bad news get
to his ears. I hope the message can reach him. The system needs
a major overhaul, and if he's looking for a major chunk of overhead
to purge, try a few hundred internal recruiters.
Gail
|
| 1044.4 | didn't work for me.. | TALLIS::ZANZERKIA | | Thu Mar 08 1990 19:37 | 30 |
| .1
I have to disagree about skill set being a BIG factor here. May be
for COD's and open houses but it does not seem to matter for sending
resumes to recruiters. Actually with good skills, COD/open houses
work out very well for job search.
I am in the job change process. I am in ENG and was looking for a
job within ENG. When I sent my resume to people through jobs notes file
or open houses I had 90% success rate of getting the interview. Out of
those interviews I had 5-6 offers in the span of 2 months. So i don't
think lack of skill is the problem here.
I have also sent my resume to recruiters(dating back to 2 months ago)
and have not recieved a single interview through that process. I am not
bashing recruiters, I worked with several excellent people when I was
looking for a job last time. However this time, total lack of response
was surprising.
Also if I sent the resume to recruiter whose name was given in the
jobs notes file then the response was good. This leads me to believe
that resume screening process is blocking the progress, may be recruiters
are over worked. I even had my resume posted in the TESS system with
proper job codes.
I am about to pick a job so I am done with the job search(atlest
untill next time). The job search experience was eye opening,
I have come to believe that even with good skills one must use direct
contacts to get a job.
.0 I understand how you feel about the job search. I would suggest you
try jobs notes file or contact people directly(this can be hard).
Robert
|
| 1044.5 | my thirteen month ordeal - a happy ending | VMSDEV::ILONA::BLASER | Peter Blaser 381-2630 ZKO3-4/W23 | Fri Mar 09 1990 19:47 | 28 |
| Granted I was moving from the field to engineering (this could be compared with
swimming up-stream :->), but:
1. I had used VTX JOBS and VAXnotes JOBS extensively. I can say that I never
missed reading a single entry for six months. I was selective about which
opportunities to investigate only choosing those for which I was both
qualfied for and interested in.
2. I sent out lots of resumes to the contact people, both by network and paper.
3. Never got an interview through any contact people. Contact people were
difficult (sometimes impossible) to reach by phone. Only a few would confirm
receipt of resumes.
4. After five months of this, I found a way to find out the name of the
hiring manager without using the contact people (sincere thanks to an
un-named corporate personnel person). All of a sudden I had
four interviews and within a month had found another job.
The catch was that the requisition was frozen all-of-a-sudden and it took
another seven months to open it back up! I've been at this new position
now for a year and I can say it was definately worth it, but I don't understand
why finding a position internally seemed (for me) to be just as difficult as
finding one externally!
To those who would flame me: this is my perception of my 13 month ordeal.
Actual milage may vary according to which part of the world you are in and
the personnel department you deal with.
|
| 1044.6 | Nothing Ever Changes | MSCSSE::LENNARD | | Mon Mar 12 1990 12:02 | 22 |
| Re .0....Well, I see things haven't changed much since the Target Sales
Force crashed in flames four years ago. About two hundred of us went
through the same hell. I found interviewing managers to be almost
criminally unresponsive after interviews. Fewer than five out of over
100 ever got back to me.
The biggest single obstacle was recruiters. It's like they are there
to keep you from getting a job. What's even worse is that most of 'em
are contractors. They don't know s--t from Shinola about Digital. My
worst experience was to travel to Greenville, S.C. to interview as
training manager, only to find that the recruiter was a contractor from
Nashua, N.H. who actually flew down on the same plane that I did. He
didn't know anything about Digital or the job.
.O Don't quit, hang in there. Make Digital do things right or make
them give you a good severance package. I hope to God that someone
finds some way to make the system work before the thousands of people
who will be looking for internal placement soon start trying to use our
"system". Maybe people could do like they do in Mexico City and just
sit alongside the roads leading to Maynard and Marlboro with signs
hanging around their necks reading "Electrical Engineer", "programmer"
etc.
|
| 1044.7 | When will they see the light?? | BTOVT::REMILLARD_J | | Wed Mar 14 1990 13:18 | 49 |
| Re. 0
I've been with DEC for over 10 yrs. All of it at a remote mfg.
site. Over this period I've bid on several jobs. It didn't matter
what skills you had, it's the process. I tried bidding on a job
(Wage class 4) but didn't penetrate far enough into the salary range.
I interviewed for A.H.O.D. with our local sales people. I didn't
stand a chance, no sales experience.
I tried to fit into my organization by asking for "New" work but
they already hand pick their "Teams". Every time I had a review
they asked me what my path I wanted to pursue for my career. I told
them and it was documented as such. I was enrolled in a Continuing
Education program with a local college to pursue a degree in Business.
After going that route for a few years I didn't see any change in my
career with my group. My supervisor even discouraged me from continuing
my studies. I was real frustrated. At this point I was feeling pretty
lousy with the "System". The Open Door Policy doesn't work......
If you use it, you're perceived as being a problem employee.
During all this, I was in the wrong job to begin with. I wasn't doing
any of the work my job was designed for. In the fall of 1989 I was
told my job (the one I wasn't doing) was going away. It had been a
year prior to this, when I actually was doing the job. Anyway, I was
told to find a job. I found a temporary job for a year. During that
time I was told to enroll into training to prepare for Aridus. I was
never told what my responsibilities would be when my temp. job expired.
Then I heard about TMP. No, I wanted to prove to them I was a valueable
resource. CCD was coming on board so I talked with some people about
the jobs. I even went to a meeting to find out more from the CCD folks
themselves. With the experience I gained in my temp. job they said I
would fit right in. I should of known better.
To make a long story short, they weren't going to promote anybody into
the CCD jobs. With the wage freeze in effect I was pushed out 21 months
to start with. I have needs, they wouldn't do anything to meet them.
December 1, 1989 I tried to find out info. on TMP to see if I would be
allowed to volunteer. I spoke with my manager to see if they would
support me. It's now March 14, 1990 and I still haven't had a solid
answer. Nothing documented anyway.. I don't know how many memos I've
sent out without any replies....
Why does it have to be this way?
Jeff
|
| 1044.8 | I see the light, it's a train. | BSS::C_BOUTCHER | | Mon Mar 19 1990 01:37 | 18 |
| Problems with recruiters is just a symptom of a systemic problem we are
encountering throughout DEC. I have been at DEC 14 years and have been
able to make career changes, but it is very difficult. You have to
follow through personally on every lead.
Last year I interviewed for a CSDM position. I met with a Area VP for
my final interview. Two weeks after the interview I wrote two memos
and made three phone calls to get feedback on how I interviewed and to
see what the status of the position was ... I was never contacted. I
had to call the District that I interviewed for to see if they had a
new manager yet. They did ...
Being in management, I make it my business to contact anyone I have
interviewed after a selection has been made to offer feedback. It gets
under my skin that so many managers in this company do not realize
that when an employee invests their time and energy to interview for a
position, they deserve no less than to hear back from the interviewing
manager what the results were.
|
| 1044.9 | Missing Communication | CISM::LANDINGHAM | Mrs. Kip | Fri Mar 23 1990 18:37 | 6 |
| Is TRAINING in the proper process [e.g., being responsive, providing
feedback, responding to inquiries, etc.] what's missing in the
recruiters' and hiring managers' role? Perhaps we all
need to be taught to communicate and be more responsive. In this
day of rapid change, it's hard to be responsive, I know... especially
when you don't know all the answers...
|
| 1044.10 | Help! | VERITA::BAHLIN | | Wed Mar 28 1990 15:36 | 23 |
| When I wrote the base note I had no idea that it would create the kind
of response that it did. I was just venting frustration and hoping
that my case was painful but rare.
Many many people have contacted me privately with the exact same
tales to tell about themselves (many more private responses than appear
here). It occurs to me that this is a dirty little secret. People
victimized by the system don't want to go public because they are still
hoping for offers and they don't want to be rocking the boat in the
middle of a job search.
The folks managing these processes then, only hear the success stories!
I'm willing to collect the un-success stories and keep them anonymous.
Some one needs to do this to size the problem or it won't ever get
fixed.
So, if you've read and identified with the base note but haven't gone
public and don't want to, contact me by mail and I will collect the
data. I will hide identities, change content to ensure anonymity,
or otherwise keep you out of the public eye. Don't stay silent!
Digital can't afford to continue with this process, broken as it is.
|
| 1044.11 | A TRANSITION REALITY | USCTR1::TCOLATOSTI | | Thu Mar 29 1990 17:22 | 50 |
| I don't want to be defensive, nor do I want to miss the main thrust
of your perception and experience by arguing specific responses
to your assertions. However, it would be irresponsible on my part
to all the employees who have been involved in COD not to unequivically
reject at least two assertions i.e. "bait and switch is alive.."
and "don't use COD III, go around the system".
COD is not a ruse, and has been effective. Over 600 employees have
voluntarily explored field opportunities and have found real live
meaningful jobs and have been supported with the best training,
relocation and support program in any industry. COD is working
for many employees!
Notwithstanding a response that may be difficult to accept, I will
turn and now speak to the broader issue. COD has a lot of problems.
I could add my concerns and frustrations to your list. I am not
happy with our progress. We have made a lot of mistakes. Whe have
not treated every employee properly. The list could go on. I am
committed to fix these short comings and to continue to improve
the processes and relationships.
Your feedback has stimulated me to do two things immediately to
address some dimensions of the "disease".
1. We will bring all the recruiters together for "customer
satisfaction" training. To train them on follow-up,
responsiveness, communications, empathy, etc. We will use
case studies such as yours to demand that our employment
folks are responsive and sensitive.
2. We will create a "Manager of Customer Relations" who will
be a proactive, empowered quality assurance/problem solver for
employee problems.
We will do more!
We are committed to fill field jobs! We aree committed to ensure
every employee feels good about the process and is dealt with fairly
and with respect. We want employees to feel good about the process
even if their expectations are not always met.
I can not undo history, but I really hope you don't give up on the
process because of mistakes. The stakes are too high for all of
us for any to get discouraged.
I hope I have conveyed our sense of pride and accomplishment over
the results we have achieved so far and an openness, commitment,
and desire to improve our performance.
Regards.
|
| 1044.12 | | GOGNET::OGRADY | George - ISWS - Overhead Support | Fri Mar 30 1990 16:49 | 9 |
|
re -.1
Tom,
I hope it happens. It great to see a problem/concern get fixed. We
look forward to more updates and input from you.
gog
|
| 1044.13 | A similar note at 1008 | VICKI::WHEELER | Get Yer Ya-Yas' Out | Fri May 11 1990 12:09 | 6 |
|
I think note 1008, or at least some of it's replies, tie in
with this note. This note restarts some of the frustration I
felt concerning the situation described in .57.
Paul W.
|
| 1044.14 | FORM LETTER????!!!!!!! | STAFF::MCCALLION | | Thu Jul 19 1990 21:58 | 5 |
| I really don' t have the time right now to read the other 13 responses
but I was taken back that you received a form letter. I applied
for several positions as an Admin. Sec ( currently there are 440+
openings in DEC) and have yet to received ANYTHING from that Personal
office or recruiter.
|