Conference 7.286::digital

HW,

Unless training materials are in very small modular form,
training materials are not feesible over a notes-network.
Training packages such as CBI requires that the product be paid
for by your cost centre. As a control format, the product can be
transmitted over the network but copy-right issues can be
infringed upon.

Courses are announced over VAXnotes.

Cal Hoe

    Re: .0
    
    Good idea.  Probably you could find a customer or two actually doing
    something like that with NOTES and/or VTX.  Usually customers are
    W-A-Y ahead of Digital in "enterprise-wide" use of our tools.  We
    tend to keep the really practical implementations limited to New
    England.
    
    Re: .1
    
    Beancounting reasons for not doing something productive are counter
    to the Operations Committee's directives...  
    
    There's no copyright issue in using Digital material internally; 
    NOTES allows for restricted, therefore controllable and chargeable, 
    conferences; the net does not have to carry the interactive portion 
    of CBI, it can be bulk transferrred at night; etc. etc.  
    
    Technical difficulties can ALWAYS be worked around.  It's what we do.  
                           
    Don
    

    I'm in Sales Training, and, am a NOTE_A_HOLIC.  Believe me, VAXnotes
    is the greatest thing since sliced pizza and beer.
    
    It's fantastic for a rapid interchange of information - but - as
    a training medium....I'd have to give that some thought but my first
    impression is that it simply wouldn't work.
    
    If you'd like to equivocate "experience" and "training" then
    VAXnotes is WONDERFUL.  I'm going to announce two conferences which
    are directed toward the sales force.  One of these is to provide
    information to the Sales Training organization (ABACUS::SALES_TRAINING)
    and the other is to share experiences in selling to the educational
    market (ABACUS::SELLING_TO_EDU).  Hopefully SELLING_TO_EDU will
    allow field sales people to share experiences in selling to this
    very difficult market.  My own personal, biased, opinion is that
    the ability to share experiences is to "learn" from others.
    
    When I was in the field (selling) VAXnotes provided me with information
    which was more timely and more accurate than most of the information
    that I got from the marketing people.  I'm on a one man crusade
    to try to convince the sales force that VAXnotes is indeed an extremely
    valuable medium.  Although I do not want to take a defeatist attitude,
    from what I can tell, it's going to be an up hill battle.

    I have absolutely no studies to show who the major users of notes
    are, in any type of "ranking", but, my impression is that sales
    people use VAXnotes less than any other functional organization
    in Digital.  I have yet to really determine the reason why, but, the
    initiation of these two conferences will perhaps give me some insight
    as to the reluctance of sales people to use VAXnotes.
    
    In the introductory note of the conferences mentioned above, I made
    it crystal clear that I will *travel* to their site, and, give a
    short course on the use of VAXnotes.  I don't now if this will bring
    any results, but, I'm going to try.
    
    Additionally, there are different "philosophies" in different areas
    concerning the use of VAXnotes.  I've found some locations where
    access to VAXnotes is not even *allowed*, I've found some places
    where you can get to VAXnotes if you have enough VMS knowledge to
    load the servers, and, the system people will make the available
    to you.  I've found some locations where "no public NOTES conferences
    are allowed since it will increase network traffic", etc...
    
    All in all, I've got a battle, but, I think it's worth winning,
    and therefore I will fight for what I believe is right and productive
    for the Digital sales force...
    
    I'll surely let you know what I find out, not the least of which
    if there is no response from the field sales force....
    
    Jerry_who's_button_has_been_pushed

    Sales management is where to start.  The line I here and I am in
    sales, is that sales reps should not have time to read notes, they
    should be too busy selling.  
    

    It's just a guess but maybe the medium is a problem for some people.
    Notes is a writers medium.    If you don't believe that, find a
    note where someone has butchered the language (or commited spelling
    errors).   There are numerous examples where these perpetrators
    are flogged (verbally).    Many, so flogged, won't be back.
    
    Seriously though, training needs to be tailored to an individuals
    learning style.   Some people need lectures, others need reading,
    still others need hands on.   Vax notes would be superb in my opinion
    for those with good reading and writing skills.   But, I don't believe
    everyone is equal in this regard.
    
    I do think that no course (no matter what the teaching style) should
    be without Notes as a valuable adjunct tool.  However, it should
    never stand alone as THE tool unless you are VERY sure about the
    skills in the intended audience regarding the written medium.
    
    

        Although many of us are used to Notes as a two-way, interactive
        conferencing tool, there's no reason, _a_priori_, why it *must* be
        used that way.  In particular, it's possible to structure a Notes
        conference so that only selected topics permit responses, and only
        the moderators can create new topics, for example. 
        
        I can imagine using a Notes conference, in conjunction with CBI
        materials and other means of delivering information, to provide
        distributed access to tutorial information, as well as to gather
        feedback on the training materials and to learn what works for the
        students and what doesn't.  Not all course developers want this
        feedback, of course, and not all instructors would be willing to
        use Notes to provide tutorial support (answering questions). 
        
        I'm not convinced that everything should be done with Notes, but
        it's possible to do MANY things with Notes.  Where Notes works
        *lots better* than most other tools is where there's a need for
        many-to-many communication.  While it can be used for one-to-many
        and one-to-one communication, there are other tools that work as
        well or better. 
        
        When some people ask that Notes be used to implement something
        other than the two-way interactive many-to-many conferencing that
        it does so well, it's often because they like the Notes user
        interface (or because they're unfamiliar with any other user
        interface). 
        
        One thing Notes does better than VTX (for one-to-many messaging)
        is that Notes keeps time-stamps on information, keeps track of
        what you've seen and what you haven't, and can let you know when
        there's new information available. 
        
        Tom

    Re: [.5]: An excellent point!  I think the PHONE utility would be used
    more but for the embarrassment one feels of watching someone with
    really poor typing skills peck out a reply.  This is even worse than
    Notes, where at least you're not seeing the replies being entered in
    real time.  (Hey, I live and die by EDT and SPELL 8^)
    
    There's a lot of "Notes etiquette" that must be taught before people
    are comfortable with Notes.  That can certainly be an impediment to
    using it.

    Just the thing we need, get the "brains" thinking on a problem and hope
    for a solution.
    
    Now as far as I can see, the desired solution is one which will allow
    for network *supported* training, including transmission of text and
    graphics, self-printed hardcopies, CBI binaries... Notes need not be
    the only medium. The concept here is *distributed training* on a
    semi-realtime basis. 
    
    If no tools is satisfactory, then for heaven sake *design* a new one!
    
    Sorry I'll be out of town for a while so I wouldn't be able to
    participate in this discussion for a while, but I hope you guys will
    keep at it. Potentially, *distributed training* will save DEC tons of
    monies, not to mention the hassle of travel and (rathole alert)
    room-sharing! (another rathole: please this is not to debate the merits
    of electronic training and physical presence, they must necessarily
    complement each other).
    
    so long, gotta run.
    
    HW

    Please, skills in the use or disuse of the "King's" or "President's"
    English should not deter anyone from using notes.  "English" has at
    least two "official" flavors right at this instant which will be
    different again in a few years.  Digital is international and even if the
    international language is "English", that does not mean that, lets
    say even a Hotentot, should not feel free to have a go at
    expressing themselves as best they ca Note'ing is cononversational
    with all (or more) of its faults.  BTW, sometimes I cringe
    at what the telephone company (maybe TPU or notes even) has done
    to some of my message#@#^%^&*(**( - ah well - Fred