Conference 7.286::digital

    
    The state has gone through crises before, as is 
    happening now. So has Digital - this is the second
    pay freeze I have been through - the last one being 
    81-82? I believe. 
    
    Is morale affected? Yes, but I think many people
    feel like I do - grateful to have a job! Personally
    I would be willing to pay more taxes to assist 
    the programs that are being cut. I feel my husband
    and I, both DEC employee's are very lucky to have
    good salaries and benefits. 
    
    It's all relative to where you live, too. I live in 
    New Hampshire, and pay state tax to Mass. Our
    property taxes in Nashua are over DOUBLE what my parents
    here in Maynard pay, and their house is worth more!
    My husband, from N.H., was always so proud that 
    there is no NH State tax - "Live Free and Die" he says!
    
    I tell him you know it's half a dozen of one, or six of another,
    depending on how you want to view it! In the final analysis
    we pay out just as much tax as we would in Mass.....By the 
    way, MANY of my neighbors have been layed off by Sanders. 
    I think morale up there is a lot lower. They are
     interviewing for jobs in Mass - can't get anything
    in Southern NH! 
    
    One_viewpoint_from_a_close_Mass_neighbor..... 
    
     
    

re: < Note 862.0 by NUTMEG::SILVERBERG >
    
>    The Massachusetts miracle has been found to be an illusion, and
>    the State is going to h*ll in a handbasket.  State income taxes
>    are being raised 15%, bringing them into the top bracket in the
>    nation.  The fiscal year budget is being chopped up with a meat
>    cleaver, causing cities & towns to begin the massive layoff of
>    teachers, police, fire, public works employees, etc.  Social and
>    health services, aid to poor, environmental programs, etc are being
>    cut.  Local real estate taxes, fees, etc. will have to be
>    increased again.
    
	Whoa! Number one, the increase in income tax is from 7/89 through
	12/90 only. It is only to pay for the FY89 deficit - remember,
	Massachusetts requires, by law, a balanced budget (how many states
	can say that).

	Number two, you get what you pay for. Yes, our income taxes may be high
	(which I don't agree with, since I used to live in NY, where the
	top rate, last I looked, was 14% - plus a NYC tax if you lived there),
	but we provide many more services than, say, Alabama. If you want
	low income taxes, then let lack of services for the poor, homeless,
	AIDS victims, etc, be on your head.

	Number three, what the hell was the alternative to cutting the
	budget? Raising taxes, of course, on a permanent basis - but the
	gutless wonders on Beacon Hill can't do that.

	Number four, George Keverian's pledge to override the local aid veto
	is pure PR - unless he raises some revenues (e.g. taxes) to pay for it.
	The difference between FY89 and FY90 is that FY89's budget was overly
	optimistic, but revenues were much less than expected; FY90's budget
	is being adjusted to deal with a more realistic estimate of revenues.

As for the salary delay - I think that it will cause more consternation than
anything that happens in the State House. Some of us have adjustable mortgages,
and local taxes will surely be raised more than usual. But these wouldn't hurt
so much if we got raises on a normal schedule.

eric

RE: < Note 862.2 by BOSTON::SOHN "I'll trade a MV3900 for some good BBQ" >

>>    The Massachusetts miracle has been found to be an illusion, and
>>    the State is going to h*ll in a handbasket.
>	Whoa! Number one, the increase in income tax is from 7/89 through
>	12/90 only. It is only to pay for the FY89 deficit - remember,
>	Massachusetts requires, by law, a balanced budget (how many states
>	can say that).
O.K., but when I look at all the money that goes to the state in taxes and
fees it really makes me wonder who's watching the pot!  I don't have an issue
with taxes...my issue is that I have no confidence that the money is
being handled properly.  I only have an issue with taxes when they are
taxes to fix the bungling of handling the monies.

Didn't KO talk about the direction Mass. is headed?  Does anyone have a
summary of what he said?

Dan

    Its true that politicians mishandle money as a matter of principle_:-)
    but a lot of us old time Decies will stay as long as Ken is here...
    no matter what.  
    
    We all have families to support but many of us who are here at DEC
    are working for more than the money.  We stay because 1) techie
    stuff is fun 2) it's always a challenge  3) we are respected as
    individuals  4) we've been through bad times before together and
    we've always managed to come out on top.
    
    I've known many people who have left the company in good times and
    bad and they always try to come back.  
    
    Most of us will stick this out.

	  As usual, this isn't the place to discuss Massachusetts
	politics...

	  As for the effect on morale, I do think it will hurt some.
	Even if the income tax increase lasts only until the end of
	next year, that's 18 months of a pay cut for Massachusetts
	employees. Add to that a wage delay and inflation and you're
	seeing a decrease in purchasing power of at least 10% over
	that time period.

	  But, as was pointed out elsewhere, it could be worse. Take
	a look in the Nashua Telegraph and count all of the
	engineering and computer science jobs in the help wanted
	section. Last I looked you could do it on one hand - maybe
	even one finger. With Sanders, Wang, Prime, Apollo and DG
	all doing worse, we can at least look around and say that
	our hole isn't as deep as theres.

	  Basically, dem's da breaks in a very cyclical industry.
	Knowing that doesn't help me save enough to buy a house, and
	it probably won't make anybody feel a heck of a lot better.
	But I really can't complain about my standard of living, my
	work environment, etc. etc.

	Roy

    RE: .2
    
�    	Number two, you get what you pay for. Yes, our income taxes may be high
�	(which I don't agree with, since I used to live in NY, where the
�	top rate, last I looked, was 14% - plus a NYC tax if you lived there),
�	but we provide many more services than, say, Alabama. 
    
    Whoa, is right.  When was the last time you were in Alabama?  What
    type of services are you offering in Mass (high crime, expensive property,
    housing, and taxes?)  Don't slam an area of the country unless you
    can speak for both areas of the country.
    
    Keith R>

As a graduate of S.R. Butler High School in Huntsville, Alabama, where I
_FORTUNATELY_ only wasted a single year, I can assure you that there is
a VAST difference in the quality of the school system there and in Acton,
Massachusetts, where I currently live.

/john

    Why didn't you go to Grissom High School in Huntsville, AL, which is
    rated as one of the top high schools in the country?  Why do most
    aerospace companies and other high tech companies have large offices
    in the South?  I guess the research triangle in Raleigh, NC is
    considered second-class too.  Why do so many people want to move
    to the South if it's such a Shangri-la up north?
    
    Keith R>

    
    You know I grew up in Conn. and all I can remember was the industries
    leaving and going to the Carolina's. I was shocked when I came to
    work at DEC in the early 80's and there was prosperity in New England.
    In my mind New England was a place where adults worked at the mill
    for a little above the minimum wage and worked two shifts to make
    ends meet. What a shock when I was in Bedford for school and hear
    the students talk about developing building lots for $250,000.00
    houses in their spare time! Also Mass is now so affluent that they
    decided to force the buisnesses in the state to pay for health care
    for everyone.
    
    So in my humble opinion I'd say that someone in Mass government
    has forgotten how the Mass got so prosperous in the first place.
    
    1. They have excellant educational system.
    2. There was some good infrastructure from the earlier industries.
    3. Because there was such a long period of industrial decline the
    state developed a love for industry that they seem to have since
    cooled.
    
    If I lived there I'd be asking why the government is concerned with
    raising taxes and laying off employees and not trying to encourage
    more buisness to start or relocate in Mass. Here in Maryland the
    taxes are enough to break us in two but there are new highways
    everywhere and more industry moving in. Its called progress.
    
    Fred Mudgett

Why aren't the moderators write-locking this note?

This notes file suffers from Mass-bashing ratholes that, in my opinion,
the moderators do NOT stop. They do seem to react only when somebody
defends Mass vigourously using rathole techniques.

This is a Digital conference, not a Hate-Massachusetts conference.
There is a Mass conference, but I suspect the Mass-bashers will receive
short-shrift there.

RE:            <<< Note 862.7 by COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert" >>>
                -< Alabama deserves much of the abuse it gets >-

> As a graduate of S.R. Butler High School in Huntsville, Alabama, where I
> _FORTUNATELY_ only wasted a single year, I can assure you that there is
> a VAST difference in the quality of the school system there and in Acton,
> Massachusetts, where I currently live.
    
    John, in what year were you at S.R. Butler High School in Huntsville,
    Alabama?  And in what year did you attend (or become familiar with) the
    school system in Acton, MA?  If they were within 5 years of each other,
    then you have a valid point.
    
    				Pat_who_moved_from_NC_to_AL_and_loved_it

><<< Note 862.11 by AIAG::KAMESH "AIAG::KAMESH Ramakrishna, DTN 291-8105, DLB5-3/B10" >>>
>             -< This note was, is, and forever shall be a rathole >-
>Why aren't the moderators write-locking this note?

    Because we are full-time workers and best efforts moderators - I was on
    a transatlantic plane for instance.
    
    It will now be write-locked, this truly DOES belong in Soapbox.
    
>This notes file suffers from Mass-bashing ratholes that, in my opinion,
>the moderators do NOT stop. They do seem to react only when somebody
>defends Mass vigourously using rathole techniques.

    Not so. See the above.
    
>This is a Digital conference, not a Hate-Massachusetts conference.
>There is a Mass conference, but I suspect the Mass-bashers will receive
>short-shrift there.

    Try it and find out.
    
    This topic is closed.
    
    ���