Conference 7.286::digital

    It might say that you have no Rights, only Privileges granted by
    the Corporation under the terms of its corporate charter and your
    employment contract.
    
    -- DB

RE: .-1
    
    I disagree.  I believe that as an employee I have a right to expect
    Digital to live up to the terms of the unwritten contract we have
    between us, as long as I live up to them also.  That means that if I
    provide Digital an honest week's productive work, I have a right to
    receive a paycheck the following Thursday afternoon.  Of course, either
    Digital or I have the ability to change the terms of that contract at
    any time; Digital can fire me or I can leave the company; but as long
    as our agreement remains unchanged I have a right to expect it will be
    honored. By the same token, unless notified otherwise, I have the right
    to expect my Digital benefits to be administered as documented. 
    
    Beyond those things, I agree that anything else is a privilege,
    not a right.  Guess you can tell right off the bat that I'm not
    much of a union supporter.
    
    							Pat

Digital's Bill of Rights for employees is already contained in its statement
of Corporate Philosophy.

/john

>        What would a DEC Employee Bill of Rights say?
    
    
                            Bill the right things?
    
    
    

    RE: .2
    
    It may be a matter of semantics, but I don't believe that your pay
    is a right, it is an obligation that DEC has accepted in other to
    get your services.
    
    

                              
    What follows is (IMO) a realistic view of what it really
    means to be an employee of any major US corporation.
    Especially in our industry, where yew-nyuns (note I did
    not spell out the dread word) are the exception rather 
    than the rule.
    
    Like anything else, it isnt a bad thing as long as you realize
    the rules and are willing to live by them....
    
    
    
     1	o	you have the right to quit.             
    
     2	o	(If a US citizen) you hereby waive your rights to
    		free speech and privacy.
    
     3	o	you have no other guaranteed rights. as determined by
    		legal or financial pressures, any other "rights" you foolishly
    		believe you currently have other than (1) above may
    		waived,atered,voided or eliminated. You agreed to this
    		by accepting employment here.  If you dont like it,
    		see (1) above.                   

    	I searching through the P&P orangebook, I did not find the use
    	of the word "rights".  (This is not to say that it is not there,
    	just that I did not see it used.)  Instead, DEC uses the phrase
    	"Digital recognizes its obligation to..."

    	Just an observation.

    	Joe Oppelt

>    It may be a matter of semantics, but I don't believe that your pay
>    is a right, it is an obligation that DEC has accepted in other to
>    get your services.

I thought about that.  But if you notice, what I said is that I have a
right to be paid AFTER I have delivered the services.  In other words,
*after* I've given Digital an honest week's work, it would be a violation
of my rights for Digital to say "We've decided not to pay you for the work
you did last week.  Thanks a lot, though, we appreciate your donation.  See 
ya 'round, sucker."

I agree with your statement that pay is an obligation that Digital has 
accepted in order to get my services.  I'm just saying that once I've 
delivered those services, I have a right to expect to be paid for them as 
we agreed prior to the delivery of the services.

This is really a nit, but maybe I've made my meaning a little clearer.

							Pat

Which brings us to the notion of privileges, rather than rights.

Bob

    If I do work and the company rfuses to pay me, I have the legal
    right to sue.  I have a legal right to a minimum wage.
    
    I have a legal right to a safe working environment, and a legal
    right to know what if any hazardous materials are ued in my facility.
    
    I have a legal right to work free from discrimination and harrassment.
    
    My employer does not grant me any of these rights, though; the U.S.
    Government does.
    

    re: .-1
    
    Wow! A conspiracy by the corporation aganist its own employees,
    I've been here 14 yrs and never realized it.
    
    re: "rights"
    
    If you want "rights" go work for a company that has a union to enforce
    them.

    
    
    
    re. 13
    
    	A conspiracy?  No, that is not what I had in mind!  Rather
    	what I was trying to suggest is that the 'system' as it now
    	stands is subject to abuse.  Also, that DEC policys maybe
    	driven by local and federal laws (i.e. discrimination laws)
    	and has implemented its own policy on the matter in part to 
    	protect itself.
    
    	Maybe this topic should include discussion on how to improve
    	the situation. 
    
    	Ken
     

>< Note 834.14 by VH1::EMMONS >
>    	A conspiracy?  No, that is not what I had in mind!  Rather
>    	Maybe this topic should include discussion on how to improve
>    	the situation. 
    
  If you wish to continue the discussion, why was .12 deleted?  It's hard to
propose answers when we don't know the questions.
     
	--Mike

        Re: .6

>    What follows is (IMO) a realistic view of what it really
>    means to be an employee of any major US corporation.
>     2	o	(If a US citizen) you hereby waive your rights to
>    		free speech and privacy.

        Employees don't waive their right to free speech.  An employee
        may be required to behave in a particular manner while at work,
        or to limit discussion of their job when not at work, but an
        employer can't limit an employees right to present their views
        on non-work related subjects.

        Employers do frequently try to limit the non-work related speech
        of their employees, but taking action against an employee who
        tries to exercise freedom of speech is a good way to be on the
        losing side of a lawsuit.

        					B.J.

>< Note 834.11 by DELNI::JONG "Steve Jong/NaC Pubs" >
                -< Some rights, but as a citizen, not a DECcie >-

 *   If I do work and the company rfuses to pay me, I have the legal
    right to sue.  I have a legal right to a minimum wage.
    
 *   I have a legal right to a safe working environment, and a legal
    right to know what if any hazardous materials are ued in my facility.
    
 *   I have a legal right to work free from discrimination and harrassment.
    
 **  My employer does not grant me any of these rights, though; the U.S.
    Government does.
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 The lines marked "*" are "rights" only to the extent allowed by the government.
 They can be legislated out of existence at whim.
    
 As for "**", no government can grant rights. *Rights* are innate to 
 human existence, they can be suppressed but not "granted".


	  	With apologies for the rathole,
	  					Jack	

The "right to free speech" guarantees a reasonable opportunity to
speak freely.  It by no means guarantees the right to speak at any
time.  You do not have a 100% right to speak out in theatres, planes,
meetings, and many other gatherings.

NO, I'm not talking about the infamous "crying fire in a theatre"
example.  You do not have an unlimited right (in fact you have a
very limited right) to distrub others and their activies by speaking
out on any subject at any time.

You do not have an unlimited right to disturb Digital's business
by discussing, say, the Iranian situation with every customer with
whom you have contact, nor at every business meeting at DEC.

Digital isn't curtailing your rights here; you never had them in
the first place.

- greg

ps: you DO have an unlimited right to hold an opinion, but not
    unlimited rights with respect to how and when you express it.

    Of course you have the right to say what you want - and then you take
    the consequences, as always.
    
    Those who forget the second part of the above sentence are destined to
    discover it again and again.
    
    - Andy

re: .19

Well, in most cases you have the physical opportunity to do so.
Whether or not that is a "right" is debatable.

- greg

              All of your rights are granted by the moderators.

Everyone has a right to their opinion!  Even if they are wrong!
You also have the right to let another persons opinion go in
one ear and out the other...

                  /-===-\
Your Opinion >--�( .   . )�--> Does Not count!
                  \  "  /
                   \ O /
                    -=-

But then that's my opinion!

- Mike

    I'm astounded that people who so zealously defend their rights as
    defined in the US Constitution seem so quick to deny those same
    rights solely for the purposes of employment.
    
    A company is a group of people.  They have banded together for a
    common purpose (at least inasmuch as a healthy company means continuing
    economic health for each person).  To suggest that you must surrender
    your political and legal rights to attain economic security suggests
    exploitation of the worst kind.
    
    I'm still waiting for someone to explain just how it is that a company
    (a legal entity) has the right to strip its employees
    of their rights in the name of profit.

    Your contract of employment states your "rights" within the
    corporation. You have the right to sign, agreeing to the t's and c's of
    your employment; or indeed not to sign and not join Digital.
    
    Fair enough, it seems to me.
    
    Andy

    re: 834.24
    
    For technical reasons it's called an "Employee Agreement" and not an
    "Employee Contract".
    
    The Digital "Employee Agreement" is, as far as I know, not subject to
    negotiation.  There certainly is unequal bargaining power in this case.
    I don't recall my employee agreement specifying some performance on
    Digital's part.  I recall it specified my obligations, not Digital's.
    
    In the United States, at least, employees have sued their employer and
    been upheld in court when terms in the employee agreement were
    unreasonable.

    re: 834.25
    
    � The Digital "Employee Agreement" is, as far as I know, not subject to
    � negotiation.  There...
    
    When I was hired, I worked through the legal department to allow me to
    do some consulting work for one of my previous clients (a DEC customer)
    while working for DEC.  They sent me a waiver (or something, this was
    five years ago).
    
    Michael Moy

    In the UK I have a contract of employment.

    An agreement is a one-sided consent to something as in "I agree to 'do
    the right thing'".  Or when expressed as "we" it indicates some shared
    opinion: "we agree that New York is too hot in the summer".  I view the
    Digital employee agreement as something I am bound to without any
    specific performance on Digital's part.
    
    A contract is an exchange of promises between two parties. Even if the
    expression of the contract use the word "agree", if it's an exchange of
    promises, it's a contact.
    
    If you have a contract, what did Digital obligate itself to doing
    specifically for you, Andy?

    This discussion seems more and more like it should be continued
    in the Soapbox.
    
    No one asked.  Just my opinion.
    
    Gene