Conference 7.286::digital

Well, you might try FINALY::FIELD_SERVICE. (BTW, I don't expect that any
FS hiring managers will be asking the questions you suggested, but I should
also indicate that I am not, nor have I ever been, in Field Service.)

-Jack

Your potential questions have me wondering... at DEC the "Field Service
Engineers" are repair people, not product design or engineering types. To my
knowledge, DEC has no 'design engineers' "in the field". The term engineer is
used rather loosely in the computer repair field... IBM calls their repair
people 'Customer Engineers'.

No way a DEC Field Service Engineer would be reqired to know *ANY* of the stuff
you mentioned. Basic electronic tech school background is all that is required
these days.

Lee

    There's a quandary in the field support organizations that arises from
    the growing simplicity of option repair and the growing complexity of
    user's systems/networks.
    
    It does not take a lot to isolate a failing FRU, Field Replacable Unit,
    but it takes quite a lot to trouble shoot a network.  All levels of
    expertise can be put to good use... 
    
    Marge

    You might take a look at the JOBS file on VTX and look under the T
    category for a flavor of the different posted requirements... 

Re: all

Many thanks for your responses. I didn't think folks would actually
ask those kind of questions but was trying to show the apprehension
my friend has about what is required of a field engineer.

I will take the advice and go post in  FINALY::FIELD_SERVICE.

thanks!

    
    Hi,
    
    	When I interviewed with Field Service for an entry-level
    	position 5 1/2 years ago, the interviewing managers asked
    	questions that were about 10% technical (perhaps enough
    	to establish that I knew which end of a soldering iron to
    	hold) and 90% customer-relations / personal-attitude
    	questions.
    
    	It was apparent that they weren't look for someone who
    	could modify CPU boards onsite by feel, but someone
    	who could manage the customer/account in a business-like
    	way, and arrange to isolate and replace the bad component.
    
    	Steve H

    When I was a FS engineer, about 14 years ago, the company had trouble
    hiring technicians, so  at  that  time  the  company  would hire even
    people with none or very little technical background and have them go
    through a basic electronics course taught internally.
    
    I don't think we still do that, but I would be surprise to hear  that
    the entry level FS engineer requires more than diploma in electronics
    from a technical vocational school.
    
    Octavio

    I dare say,that there are offices where merely an aptitude for
    computers (no formal training) will land you a job as an entry level
    FS tech. Such a person will generally perform system maintenance
    chores (changing filters,helping with installations etc.) and
    eventually graduate to more demanding things such as diagnosing
    problems.There is usually someone else to help if things get out
    of hand.(Support?)

What are the various levels of Field Engineer?

Do all entry-level applicants come in at the same level?
                                         
What about applicants who have been trouble-shooting electronic hardware in
planes/tanks/subs for the Army, Airforce, or Navy for the last four years,
but, don't have a degree; what level would/should they come in at? 

I appreciate all the information. I am learning a great deal about Field
Engineering within DEC.

- Rich

re. -1
>What are the various levels of Field Engineer?

>Do all entry-level applicants come in at the same level?
                                         
>What about applicants who have been trouble-shooting electronic hardware in
>planes/tanks/subs for the Army, Airforce, or Navy for the last four years,
>but, don't have a degree; what level would/should they come in at? 

The tech levels for Field Service are T2F, T3F, T4F, T5F.  The entry level 
positions are usually T2F and T3F.  Terminals and small systems engineers 
will usually begin at T2F and entry level systems engineers usually begin 
at T3F.  It is kind of rare for anyone without specific Digital knowledge 
to be hired at the T4F position.  Those with prior trouble shooting 
experience should be able to progress to a T4F level within 24 months 
depending on how well they adapt to Digital systems and repair philospy.

Mark Jilson T5F
Manhattan Field Service

    
    I hate to throw in a wrench,but...a person now does need more than
    a tech school diploma or certificate. As I understand it the minimum
    schooling being considered is a 4yr degree. As far as interviewing
    goes the major part does deal with customer satisfaction issues.
    A manager does not want to hire someone that may blow an expensive
    contract because of lack of people skills. On the technical an entry
    level must be able to show ability to troubleshoot and to understand
    not only hardware but software also. And yes F/S eng's are more
    than just monkeys swapping modules. To a customer that may be all
    that they see...that's great!!!!but I assure you there was a lot
    of support and investigative diagnostic checks before that expensive
    memory module was swapped. Bottom line "customer Satisfaction".
    
    
     Dan

    If it's true that a tech school diploma wont get you an entry level
    position in F/S, then would it apply, say, in module repair?  I know
    that folks that have been in module repair have gone on to be F/S
    engineers.
    
    Marge

Re: .11

>>    I hate to throw in a wrench,but...a person now does need more than
>>    a tech school diploma or certificate. As I understand it the minimum
>>    schooling being considered is a 4yr degree. 

I'm having a little trouble with these statements. If I have a four year
degree, why would I want to join Field Service? (There might be good
reasons. I am hoping you can tell me some of them) If what you are saying
is true, I would think finding qualified AND interested people for field
service might be pretty tough. I know a good number of folks with four year
degrees who would have been useless as Field Engineers right out of school
because they lack the concentrated and practical focus that many tech
school provide to their graduates. 

re: .11�< Note 721.11 by SALEM::YACKEL >

Who's field service are you talking about,anyway? If you think entry
    level field service types need a four year degree to get hired,take
    it from someone who's worked for F/S for twenty plus years,t'aint
    so!
    All I'll say about that comment concerning lots of diagnosis
    etc...t'aint so either.    

From:	John Carow
	Field Service, Richmond, Va.  	DTN: 372-5215

TO :	EAGLE1::BRUNNER

RE:	What is Field Service

Hi,
	I have been in Field Service for nine yearsand have lots to say
about Field Service, both plus and minus. 
	My level of expertise when I was hired was a 2 year degree in
Micro-computer Technology, 6 years in the Army signal corps working on 
both analog and digital communications equipment, and last I had already
been "fixing" things for 10 years. Digital didn't have to send me to school
because my 2 year degree was sponsored by Digital in a MINI-TECH program
at a community college. Though not an electrical engineer, I had a lot 
of electronics under my belt, I had FORTRAN, COBOL, BASIC and Assembly
Language also.
	I have read the last notes and feel someone should answer
your question. Field Service is hard to pin-down because it is constantly
changing. We still maintain PDP8's and card readers...and also the latest
and greatest Digital offers. The types of customers you deal with vary more
than you can believe. EVERY office in field service is different, despite
many efforts to standardize. Rumours have been thrown around for years that
we in F.S. were just going to be 'board swappers' because Remote Diagnosis
does it all...NOT TRUE! Do we need an electronics background? Well I have to
be honest and say that I rarely need any of my above listed experience except
for one critical ability I acquired that I didn't list...Troubleshooting!!!
	That is the ability to take very limited information from a customer, 
understand what they were trying to do and why it didn't work. I would say
that being in Field Service is a job very-much like being an archaeologist.
You dig through any evidence available, and you come up with a theory of 
what happened and remove/replace the likely culprit(s). Perhaps you can take
anyone off the street and put them in Field Service, but today customers
don't allow the down-time for troubleshooting that was acceptable just a few
years therefore field service managers are looking for reliable self starters
that can first fix the customer and then their problem. You are not supervised
by anyone, there are many managers in Field Service that couldn't fix a sand-
which. But they see the numbers (how long it took Digital to get onsite, how
long it took for the engineer to fix the problem, how expensive were the parts
used to fix the problem, hown many times we had to go back before it was finally
fixed, Did the customer call and complain?, etc.) Since you sound like you have
an excellent background in design, you would find a certain level of frustration
in knowning that most problems in the field are simple ones...a fuse blew...
a module had to be reseated...the 6210 backplane screws weren't torqued right
in manufacturing, the light bulb was burned out, a cable was torn and shorted 
out, etc. 
	I could go on-and-on since I handle 3 calls per day and have done so
for nine years. I am a T4F and have been for many years, I can't get promoted
because my office has no more T5F job slots to fill, I would have to move.
	I would stack my troubleshooting and knowledge against many t7's and
t8's since I have probably worked on 80-90% of the products Digital has ever
made and my share of VES (other vendors) equipment. I have a HIGH level of
job security and a lot of responsibility because we in Field Service are on 
the front lines in the push for customer satisfaction.
	MOST IMPORTANT I recomend that you visit an office, the smaller the
better beacuse the people would be less specialized, and see for yourself
what field service is like. I personally invite you to visit us in Virginia
where I'd be happy to have you ride on some service calls and see how we
are organized. 
	As Digital is becoming more of a software company, Field Service is
doing a lot more software that ever before...a definite trend. Support in 
Atlanta is desperate for people that can support UNIX, ULTRIX, and last but
not least Networks. I am my districts NETWORK CORE GROUP member (we try
to sift through the flood of network tools, techniques, known problems, etc
and pass on what is needed to the rest of the engineers) and my hands are
full. 
	Well I've rambled on way too long here...good luck on whatever you
decide.

						John Carow
						PH4VAX::CAROW

Re: .15

John,

Thank you for a very informative and enlightening note. This was just the
kind of information I was hoping to get. It also drove home the point
(emphasized by other replies) that much of what customers see of Digital is
their friendly Field Service Engineer. 

I'll be honest; I don't think I have what it takes to be a good Field
Service Engineer. Glad we have some folks who can do this job well.

- Rich

    My tuppence worth
    
    I did a two year Diploma in Computer Engineering course and then
    accepted a position as terminal tech. with DEC. The course was
    definitely overkill for terminal tech. But it was a great base for
    fixing disk, tape and CPU faults, but more importantly developing
    tool skills (quite a few engineers can't use a 'scope properly)
    and an aptitude to fault finding. Being able to troubleshoot hardware
    problems, seperate them from customer finger trouble, software
    glitches, and the wrong day problems is a must. As long as someone
    has the right sort of mind to look at a fault, analyse what it is,
    what it isn't, what could cause it and what actually did cause the
    fault. 
    
    The other major part of the job comes from the personality of the
    engineer. An engineer who gets on well with his colleagues and
    customers is an asset. It's this person who is easy to work with
    that gets as much help from the branch as he needs. Customers will
    do things for engineers they like that they won't for someone who
    rubbed them up the wrong way (like resheduling calls, borrowing
    of bits of hardware, getting invites to customer parties etc). 
    
    It's sorta hard to explain what sort of idiot it takes to be in
    field service (:-)) but it's a job I enjoy, if a trifle bored with
    it at the moment. A bit of masochism helps as well I think.
    
    jim

    Here's an oldie but goodie...
    
    When the Earth was created, the powers  above
    Gave each man a job to work at and love.
    He made Doctors and Lawyers and Plumbers and then,
    He made Carpenters, singers, and Confidence Men.
    And when each had a job to work as he should,
    He looked them all over and saw it was good.
    
    He then sat down to rest for a day,
    When a horrible groan chanced to come in his way.
    The Lord looked down, and his eyes opened wide,
    For a motley collection of bums stood outside.
    "Oh!  What can you want?" the Creator asked them.
    "Help us." they cried out, "A job for us men"
    "We have no profession," they cried in dismay,
    "And even the jails have turned us away."
    
    The Lord was perplexed - then he was mad.
    For all the jobs, there was none to be had!
    The he spake aloud in a deep angry tone,
    "Forever and ever ye mongrels shall roam.
    Ye shall freeze in the summer, and sweat when it's cold,
    Ye shall work on equipment that's dirty and old.
    Ye shall crawl under raised floors, and there cables lay,
    Ye shall be called out at midnight and work through the day.
    Ye shall work on all holidays, and not make your worth,
    Ye shall be blamed for all downtime that occurs on the earth.
    Ye shall watch all the glory go to software and sales,
    Ye shall be blamed by them both if the system it fails.
    Ye shall be paid nothing out of sorrow and tears,
    Ye shall be forever cursed, and called Field Engineers.
    
    
    Larry (whose been doing this for 20+yrs)
    

    re: .15, .17
    
    The ability to sift information and work your way toward an
    understanding of the problem, eventually fixing it, is also useful for
    software maintenance.
    
    On the offer to "ride along", I think it would be valuable for many DEC
    employees to occasionally visit customer sites, and see what really
    happens.  Sometimes customer personnel will bend your ear about their
    problems---this is good for them, and can sometimes also be good for
    you.  It would be impractical for all of the 100,000 Digital employees
    who don't have frequent contact with customers to visit the same
    office, particularly if they all decided to do it on the same day.
    Is there an organized "customer contact" seminar that one can sign up
    for?  If not, is there anyone from other field offices that will make
    the same offer that was made in .15, to let us Ivory Tower types "ride
    along"?  I used to go to DECUS to renew my customer contacts, but DECUS
    is pretty much limited to product managers and marketing nowadays.
        John Sauter  

Re: .-1

>>    On the offer to "ride along", I think it would be valuable for many DEC
>>    employees to occasionally visit customer sites, and see what really
>>    happens.  


	To really get a "feel" for the field, I would suggest making 
	that ride with a support engineer on a newly opened CLD (a field 
	problem escalation acronym) ... after all, for a one trip deal, you 
	want to see some action!  
John