Conference 7.286::digital

    I understand what you're saying, but I don't know....what is DEC's
    time? What is my time?  When am I "at work"? 
    
    For those in engineering organizations, sometimes the distinction is
    blurred (apologies to those in other types of organizations).  How
    often do I do "DEC's" work on weekends, after 8:00 at night?  (Often!)
    I care about getting my work done on time and being productive. I am
    often here at 7:30, often leave at 7:00, sometimes come in on weekends
    for long days.  So if I'm having a grumpy morning and want to come in
    late, or want to relax reading nonwork notes, what the heck?  A company
    with a rigid attitude of enforcing time standards might not inspire the
    *extra* work that many of us put in voluntarily. 
    
    It seems that good supervision is what's necessary, good evaluation of
    what the person is accomplishing or not accomplishing, and a good match
    of assignment to the person's abilities and interests.  Even without Notes,
    people can balance their checkbooks, pay bills, sit in the cafeteria,
    hang out and chitchat about personal things, read the paper, etc.... If
    one isn't challenged by one's work or if one is lazy, Notes isn't the
    only nonproductive game in town! 

    Nina    

    I work in the thermal engineering lab.  Occasionaly when I run a
    test on a unit, I have nothing to do except watch and wait.  Since
    it have to watch it out of the corner of my eye, I can't really
    do much else.  So I do a little noting.
    
    If they (notes) are a destruction of productivity, Why does the
    company continue to support them?
    
    Steve O

    Well, here I am in NOTES at 10:45 CDT, during normal working hours.
    But, then, I also worked on a large proposal a couple days ago until
    after midnight.
    
    So I think things even out.
    
    I noticed that .0, complaining about using NOTES during "normal"
    business hours, is timed stamped 9:45 EDT.  Isn't that somewhere
    between breakfast and lunch?
    
    Isn't there some religious saying about the guy who hasn't sinned
    please cast the first stone?

    
    - Greg Scott, the one from Minneapolis

RE: .1  ditto**2 (from one who has given many a Sunday to the corporation)

After all, if we all did notes at lunchtime, the network would come to 
a halt.

    I think it's important to keep the score even.  In many of the 
    Professional jobs at DEC, the individual is responsible for meeting
    deadlines and commitments - which is often quite different to putting
    in 8 hours of work from  8 to 5.  
    
    There are many days in software when we have a major deadline looming,
    that was unreasonable to start with - and we end up doing long,
    long hours.
    
    So what if I goof off for 15 minutes when things get calm again?
    And the deadline has been met?  I earned the goof off time.
    
    goofing off right now ...  
    Liz

    RE: .0
    
    Doesn't it strike you as counter-productive to force employees to hump
    along for 8 hours a day without snack-breaks, hallway BS-sessions,
    coffee-breaks and the like?  I could do that when I got out of college,
    but not anymore.  It's a great way to burn out your employees, but
    that's about it.
    
    Besides, NOTES is not your problem, it's a symptom of your problem.  If
    it's not employees doing NOTES, then they're doing something else, like
    staring at a blank wall.  This way, employees are happy, they're
    loosening up, making contact with other employees of the company and
    restoring that family feel to the company.  Besides, while I'm noting,
    I'm not really in my office.  I'm out in a conversation somewhere. 
    That's got real nice therapeutic effects...
    
John

    It seems to me that NOTES is a very DEC kind of thing to do -
    along the lines of "Let's toss some tools out on the floor and
    see what folks make of them. . ."  While there will undoubtedly
    be abuse (in the sense of time-wasting), I'm wondering if it's
    a trememdously greater proportion of time loss than in years 
    gone by.  My guess is that it's a bit more so because as we
    evolve from a small company to a big one, the growing pains
    will be such that a number of people will feel uncomfortable
    and manifest this discomfort in lowered productivity.  I have
    a feeling that this is almost an inevitability with such rapid
    growth in this world called hi-tech (whatever *that* is. . .).
    
    But I have a much stronger feeling that it's evidence of our 
    overall "health" and the continuation of some of our most dearly 
    held values.  To many of us, "normal" (the "right" thing) means 
    working hours that people in other companies would see as indicative 
    of psychosis then chilling out for a while; many feel that "normal"
    ("right") has just gotta be the antithesis of what a staid/structured
    company might do.  I may be procul harum here, but it seems to me
    that there's immense power in tossing a bunch of crazies together
    in a room (dept./plant/etc.) and telling them "Here's the problem
    of the day and here are some tools. . .y'all go do that voodoo that 
    you do so well. . .".  The dangdest things "just happen".
    
    A dynamic that I've seen over and over again is that human beings,
    given a tool designed for purpose "x" will find all sorts of ways
    to use the tool to solve other problems.  How many of us have had
    courses that play the paper clip game (break into groups of three
    or so and, in five minutes, write down all the ways you can use
    a paper clip).  I've literally come to the point where I can, with
    great confidence tell people who come to me for some of our training,
    "I won't even try to justify why you should take this course; in
    two months, you'll come back and tell me the ways *you've* devised
    to use the tool to improve your productivity."  Works like a charm.
    (and, even better, they think *I'm* some kind of "genius". . .I
    s'pose that someday I'll roast in the firey furnaces for not correcting
    that impression, but 'til then. . .)
    
    Steve
    
    P.S.  Should you need a grain of salt to take along with this reply,
    consider that when I'm not busy being and Educational Consultant and
    developer of HR systems, I'm busy being an active rock musician. . .

    It's definitely a personal style issue.  I've known people who could
    participate in many notes conferences whenever they felt like it
    and still do award winning work.  (More power to them!)  
    
    I've also run across some people who note a lot during work hours (and
    when they write it's time stamped!), but then whine and complain that
    they cannot meet their deadlines and that they have too much to do.
    
    In many cases management does not know why cases like the latter
    are happening (gee, he's always there at the terminal!).  Other
    employees who note are aware, but don't feel comfortable saying
    anything.  I can imagine a situation like that prompting .0's note.
    
    I try to put work first and fit noting in around it.  Sometimes,
    on a 'mentally dry' day an hour of noting will 'jump-start' me
    mentally.  DEC inevitably gets its time back after hours -- I couldn't
    get the job done any other way.
    
    What scares me, though, is people who say they are addicted.  The
    ones who *cannot* start work til their "seen" count is 0 in all 42
    conferences, even with a deadline looming.  I don't know how that
    happens, and I certainly don't want to ever find myself in that
    state!  
     

Good feedback. A couple of (perhaps) clarifications.

1. The title of the note includes the word _me_. 
2. The concept of NOTES and the application is a clear 'winner'. Look at
   the usage internally, and the improvements that have resulted.
3. NOTES, in many instances, are critical to getting our jobs done. 
   My Organization is an example. Makes communication, education, 
   documentation, and technical exchange a hell of a lot easier.

I agree with most of the replies. My point is that NOTES _are_ critical 
to getting our jobs done, and pulsing (in some cases) what others in DEC 
are thinking/feeling (HUMAN::DIGITAL, for instance).

My suggestion was that we as *individuals* need to realistically evaluate
what NOTES does to our productivity. Topics that have absolutely nothing
to do with getting our jobs done in any way, shape, or form can best wait
for the times when we come in early, when we're in late or logged in from
home (for those blessed with hardware there), during lunch, etc. And yes,
lots of us work 12 hours/day without overtime, nights, weekends, and...

The priv DEC has provided us is a great perk. The recommendation is that
we look inwardly and convince ourselves that we're not abusing it. I've done
it, and *my* NOTES usage will change as a result. 

RE:.3

Sinners? Stones? OK....Might I suggest to you that worrying about and
sharing concerns about productivity and (ultimate) profitability is 
something that I think about much more than between breakfast and lunch. 
If you don't think about such things, we have much bigger problems than
NOTES abuse. The base note's intent was not to knock anyone or place
blame or cast stones. It was a suggestion to look in the mirror. If you've
looked (honestly) and decided "What I do is fine", then great. Now go
off and have the best day you've ever had.

Steve.

ps/ On a personal note, had it not been for my discovery of the 
    MODEL_RAILROADS, INVESTING and REAL_ESTATE Notesfiles, my personal 
    and financial life would be a little worse off! I'm just more aware
    of my "access times" now.

    Well...I've had my dinner.  I'm waiting for my batch job to complete.
    Sometimes I do this during the day but not today.

Yesterday I worked nearly 14 hours without a break for a meal, I also 
managed to get my unseen count to zero on all of the 20 conferences I 
follow, this took less than 20 minutes. The time of day I did it is
irrelevant and no conclusions can be drawn from time stamps on my replies.

Dave.

    Reading Notes is a way for non-engineers to become more proficient
    in computer use and is a move away from technophobia.  (Remember
    this is a Computer/Software Company and not everyone who works here
    - or reads Notes - is a techie.)
    
    Non-business Notes files often address the niggling questions that
    distract people and make them crazy -- important things like trouble
    with a landlord or elder care and silly things like "who wrote that
    song or book".  I dip into all sorts of files when things are quiet
    during the work day (as a librarian I can look at answering questions
    as an extension of my reference service!) but I find that there
    is usually little activity in the non-business files I read, with
    the exception of this one and a couple of other general type files.
    
    Seems to me that accountability on the job hasn't got much to do
    with what or when notes files are accessed -- it has to do with
    responsibility for your work and giving value for your pay and setting
    priorities.  Rules (even self-imposed) about access don't do much
    to improve personal qualities like that.
    
    Sherry

         For what it's worth -- time stamps are almost 'useless' if at-
    tempting to determine if a person is 'noting' legitimately during
    working hours.  This note will be entered during the 'typical' lunch
    hour, BUT I could have written it this morning while on the job and
    entered it during lunch.  That would be clever.  If I were entering
    a long reply, the time stamp could say 12:20 p.m. and indicate to
    an otherwise 'non-suspecting' person that I did it 'legitimately',
    BUT I could have spent all my 'working' morning writing it.

    For what it's worth,

    -- Rob

    Time stamps are also useless unless you do the extra homework
    to see where the person 'noting' resides.  The time stamp is
    decided by the timezone of the location of the *CONFERENCE* not
    the noter.

    Bob