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Conference 7.286::digital

Title:The Digital way of working
Moderator:QUARK::LIONELON
Created:Fri Feb 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5321
Total number of notes:139771

452.0. "DEC - Northwestern Worcester County?" by FIDDLE::RAICHE (Color me RED) Thu Jan 28 1988 12:10

    	How about establishing more DEC facilities in North Central
    	Mass?
    
    	More and more DEC employees are moving out toward the
    	Leominster/Fitchburg and further West area of Mass. to
    	find affordable housing. This is causing a nightmare on
    	Rte 2 every morning with traffic moving in an easterly
    	direction. The traffic moving West on Rte 2 is very light.
    	The area has relatively high unemployment and at this
    	time the cost of living is less. There is a pool of people
    	there that need work!
    
    	I live in Barre, Mass (yes, it really is in Mass) and have
    	been traveling East for seven years and the difference in
    	traffic is frightening and getting worse all the time. I
    	just don't understand why we keep building our facilities in
    	areas that are already a jumbled mess like it is in Chelmsford
    	Concord, Hudson etc. Of course many people think of anything
    	West of 495 as not in Mass or "wilderness" territory! Ever
    	listen to Boston radio stations? It's like we don't exist out
    	there. Just ask Mr. Dukakis. He sees us only as a place to put
    	his prisons etc.
    
    	Anyone have any ideas on how we can convince DEC that this
    	part of Mass. is worthy of their attention? I guess Lancaster
    	and Boylston are a start, but "Go west young man" would be
    	nice to hear for a change!
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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452.1BIGMAC::JAROSSThu Jan 28 1988 13:536
    The duke puts prisons in Concord too -- 2 of them. 
    
    I thought we weren't going to buy any more land in Mass. because
    the duke wasn't willing to give us adequate tax relief? And that
    we're just building facilities on land we already own. 
    
452.2FIDDLE::RAICHEColor me REDFri Jan 29 1988 13:448
    I hadn't heard that about no longer building in Mass other
    than on property we already own. Anyone out there able to
    confirm that?
    
    I would comment on the prisons and Dukakis, but something
    tells me that should be a seperate topic. Should we start
    a topic on that issue?
    
452.3Render unto Soapbox that which is SoapyCVG::THOMPSONFamous Ex-NoterFri Jan 29 1988 14:169
>        I would comment on the prisons and Dukakis, but something
>    tells me that should be a seperate topic. Should we start
>    a topic on that issue?

    That is *not* a topic for this conference. Please feel free to
    take it up in BETHE::SOAPBOX_1988 (KP7 etc) though.
    
    			Alfred Thompson
    			Co-moderator HUMAN::DIGITAL
452.4one place to goSTUBBI::B_REINKEwhere the sidewalk endsSat Jan 30 1988 13:243
    The Athol Orange Gardner areas are still economically depressed tho they
    are improving..and there are a number of empty factories available
    to be rented. 
452.5Oooooooooops!FIDDLE::RAICHEColor me REDMon Feb 01 1988 13:328
    RE:: 452.3
    
    	Sorry about that, I misused a term. I meant to say new "conference"
    	NOT new "topic"! I of course agree with our moderator that this
    	topic is inappropriate for this file.
    
    				My Applogies
    
452.6MORGAN::JELENIEWSKIMon Feb 01 1988 14:0511
    I agree,  I do not understand why DEC continues to build up the
    already overbuilt area inside Rt 495.  In the Gardner, Athol,
    Orange area the unemployment rates is still high.  There is 
    plenty of land, the communities would love to attract a DEC.
    
    Route 2 Eastbound in the a.m. and Westbound in the p.m. is like
    driving on Rt 128, yet we continue to put up facilities inside
    495 like there's no tomorrow.
    
    Am I missing something?
    
452.7Barre, now that's in the BooniesCSSE::BAIRD_2Eyes of Taxes are Upon YouTue Feb 02 1988 08:3911
I have been involved in the Master Plan development for the town of
Hubbardston for some months.  Numerous town officials have stated their
'dream' as having DEC locate an even marginal facility in the area.

Maybe DEC is missing out on the easy spots, while concentrating on
overbuilt areas that have other priorities.

(P.S.  I'd love to be able to walk to work.)

                                  J.T.B.
452.8495 is the edge of the world :-)REGENT::EPSTEINBruce EpsteinTue Feb 02 1988 08:3917
    Are we forgetting that Digital already has a facility in Westminster?
    
    Note: Personal opinion follows...
    
    I believe that one factor inhibiting the growth of Digital west of 495
    is the attitude held by Boston area 'Y people' that route 495 is the
    edge of the world.  We have encountered that resistance in our group, which
    is moving from Maynard to Westford later this year.  Digital needs to
    be able to attract and keep employees, so until the attitude of
    the public changes...
    
    Bruce
    
    P.S. I used to work in Gardner, and it was extremely tough to attract
    new employees (specifically engineers) to that area.
    
    P.P.S. I still live outside 495.
452.9Man from the Boonies!DISSRV::RAICHEColor me REDTue Feb 02 1988 09:2526
    RE: .7
    
    	Boonies man here! Actually Hubbardston is out there too. I read
    that Hubbardston is one of the five fastest growing communities
    in Mass in direct competition with Cape communities. I agree that
    it would be a wonderful location for DEC. It has much going for
    it as a place to live/work. I'm afraid Barre is just too isolated,
    as far as roads go, to be practical. Both Barre and Hubbardston
    becomming bed room communities for Worcester and Gardner though
    and that is fine with me. Cost of living is more reasonable and
    there is room for more growth for DEC employees to live.
    
    One, and I must emphase the word, "RUMOR" has it that DEC looked
    into the vacated plant in Athol, but turned the location down. As
    I understand it, it was because of the Union mentallity that
    pervades that area and is very strong. The mill that is vacant is
    so as a result of a company moving due to a union strike. We all
    know DEC's feelings about unions (to which I strongly agree) and
    they decided they didn't need the aggravation of possibly dealing
    with that issue. I believe that the workers there would try and
    bring in a union, not that it is necessary, but simply because
    they believe in it. Too bad, it's only 15 minutes from my house.
    Can anyone shed some light (facts) on this?
    
    							Art
    
452.10exitDISSRV::RAICHEColor me REDTue Feb 02 1988 09:3421
    RE: .8
    
    	Bruce,
    		I haven't forgotten about Westminster, I am only
    	saying we can and should do more out there. That is one
    	plant out of how many in Mass? There is certainly room for
    	more.
    
    		I believe things are changing as far as attracting
    	professionals (engineers etc.) to the area. Judjing from the
    	growth in Fitchburg/Leominster/Gardner in recent years due to
    	the high cost of living elsewhere. I know many cars that I play
    	Tag with in the morning going down rte 2 that I pick up 
    	in Westminster and keep going when I get off in Concord, not
    	to mention those that get off at the 495 interchange. It is
    	obvious to me that people are willing to drive further to work
    	from areas they can affors to live in more comfortably and that
    	obviously includes us at DEC.
    
    							Art
    
452.11Gremlins, Munchies, Boonies Unite!CSSE::BAIRD_2Eyes of Taxes are Upon YouTue Feb 02 1988 10:2016
    
    Us boonies gotta stick together. I do like your thinking. I'd love
    to be able to drive WEST in the A.M. instead of into the sun! Actually
    I'm probably no more than 10 miles or so from where you live and
    I drive to Stow each day. I'd gladly give the travel time to DEC
    to increase my productivity in exchange for a closer location. 
    
    We relocated from Texas in 86 and between the crowds inside and
    around 495 and the prices for housing, we were (pleasently) forced
    to go looking in the north central section of the county. Now that
    we're on top of a ridge, few and far between neighbors, clean air,
    cleaner snow, and a good school system, what else is there?
    
          Answer: A cross functional, multi-purpose DEC facility that
    we can reasonably access and make big bucks for the company, while
    enjoying the 'frontier'!! 
452.12Not always as good as it soundsULTRA::SEKURSKITue Feb 02 1988 12:1129
    
    
    
    	A few things any company would have to consider before moving
    	to one of these towns are telephone, power and sewer requirements. 
    	Many of these smaller towns are not equipped to handle the type 
    	facilities that DEC and other hi-tech companies require. The
    	cost of planning and implementing the changes that would have
    	to be made are prohibitive for communities of relatively small
    	populations. Ask people that were in the BXB and LTN sites when
    	they first opened. The hoops that facility people had to jump
    	through inorder to get permits and sufficent electrical power 
    	are and were amazing and this is right on rte 495. Ask people
    	in BYO in Boylston how there telephone service is like. ( Future
    	site of DEC University, I wonder if all the permits have been
    	straightened out for that ) There was/is a rumor that DEC has
    	bought the old Ray-O-Vac factory in Clinton. I live in Clinton 
    	this is the first year since I lived there that we haven't had 
    	a power outage every other day. I tried dialing in last night 
    	from home it took me 4 tries to get connected to a PBX line using
    	an in town phone number. Several times I've had to run over
    	to the neighbors and use their phone to call the telphone company
    	to give my line a jumpstart because I had no dial tone. Moving
    	away from the cities is not always an attractive thing to do
    	for a large corporation that *needs* up to date town services. 

    
    						Mike
    						----
452.13TOPDOC::AHERNDennis the MenaceTue Feb 02 1988 15:1115
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Why not join, or form, a Digital Commuter Van pool.  See the
    PMRV70::COMMUTING conference.  Press KP7 or SELECT to add.
    
    
    
    
    
    
452.14Stuck in one place?!DISSRV::RAICHEColor me REDTue Feb 02 1988 15:4313
    RE: .13
    
    	Nice idea if you can do it. First of all, my job requires me
    	to regularly visit different sites and that requires me to have
    	my car. I also have morning meetings and afternoon meeting that
    	are not in VRO where I work. Also, my day is long enough from
    	the time I leave to when I return without adding time for VAN
    	pickups/dropoffs, waiting for people to arrive etc. I leave
    	home at 7:00 am and if lucky arrive back there at 6:30 pm. I'm
    	not complaining as I choose to do it, just responding to your
    	suggestion.
    							Art
    
452.15Notes entropy approaching...REGENT::EPSTEINBruce EpsteinWed Feb 03 1988 08:478
    We seem to be straying from the topic (I know, I was guilty of it,
    too :-).  Let's avoid discussions of commuting, or 'this town is
    better than that town because I live nearby', and continue discussion
    of Digital's presence in North Central Mass.
    
    Bruce 
    
    P.S.  I'd just as soon see Digital move into Cheshire County, NH.
452.16LancasterMPGS::MCCLUREWhy Me???Wed Feb 03 1988 12:3511
    There is another topic in here, somewhere, that mentioned the 
    Lancaster land at Rt2 and Ft Pond Rd. For those of you that
    may have missed this item, here and in the newspapers, the plan
    still is to break ground this spring. According to the article
    in the Fitchburg Sentinel, the 'official DEC' spokesperson
    stated that the occupants of the site would be "people in leased
    facilities in the Littleton and Boxborough areas". I take this
    to mean LTN* and BXB*, but I could be wrong. This could give you
    an idea of a group to look for a job in and cut down on your commute.
    
    Bob Mc
452.17It's better than nothing!FIDDLE::RAICHEColor me REDWed Feb 03 1988 13:0918
    RE: .16
    
    	Lancaster is a lot closer to where we are, so that is a step
    	in the right direction. Some slots may open up in groups moving
    	there, but you have to have the right job. Some will move some
    	won't, but how many? Consider this; you live in the Boxboro area
    	or East of there and your job moves West to Lancaster. You now
    	have the commute situation we are looking for. You are going
    	West when most are going East in the morning and the opposite
    	at night. Sound like an improvement for most to me. Of course,
    	if you live close to where you work now, any move of consequence
    	will be negative.
    
    	I certainly will keep my eye on the Lancaster situation. My
    	commute would go from 55 miles down to about 30 - 35 miles.
    
    							Art
    
452.18Athol mill?ANGORA::MORRISONBob M. LMO2/P41 296-5357Wed Feb 03 1988 13:3212
  I have no idea what kind of building the Athol mill is, but I can see several
problems besides the pro-union sentiment of the former mill workers. If the
mill is near downtown there may not be enough parking, and access may be diffi-
cult. No matter how many people live within walking distance, the majority of
the workforce will drive to work.
  I don't think DEC has the motivation to convert another old mill to high tech,
as they did in Maynard. And Maynard was an unusual situation, with lots of land
available for parking and (relatively) easy access by car.
  As for problems with phones and electric power in the "sticks", that is some-
thing to consider, but it shouldn't be a show-stopper. There are some small
towns in the "north of Quabbin" area that have good phones, and a well-run elec-
tric company can provide reliable power.
452.19Why should DEC let *you* walk to work? Who are *you*?SERPNT::SONTAKKEVikas SontakkeThu Feb 04 1988 08:5014
    RE: .0-.18
    
    Why should DEC be restricted to stay in Mass?  Why can't it get out of
    New England and move its operations, to, say Florida or Hawai?  Or for
    that matter why not Bombay, India.? I mean, then *I* can walk to work :-) 
    
    Just because *you* happen to reside in Western Mass, is no a reason for
    DEC to move its operation there.
    
    Remember, it was *your* decision to live where you are living now. You
    make the decision where to buy your next place of residence based on
    the job location(s).  Job locations don't come out looking for you. 
    
- Vikas
452.20I'm DigitalCSSE::BAIRD_2Eyes of Taxes are Upon YouThu Feb 04 1988 09:5728
    
    Maybe I missed the happy face in he last reply, but I'll assume
    it wasen't there.
    
    I'm a recently transferred employee who was 'steered' to his current
    living environs mostly by price. The fact that the area is a very
    nice place to live is an extra bonus. I'm not asking DEC to MOVE
    it's facilities. DEC is expanding throughout the area and this note
    asks the question "As long as you're expanding, why not consider
    north central Mass., as opposed to continued 'cramming' in "hi tech
    alley?" (Sorry, maybe that should be "in addition to" rather than
    "opposed to."
    
    My particular function in rooted in Stow, but my job, with a few
    exceptions, could be performed out of several differing facilities.
    If the company were to relocate my function (and me) elsewhere the
    cost considerations of housing, open space, schools, etc. would
    still exist.
    
    So many DEC employees have located in the area in question that
    a discussion of "some type of facility" is well within reason. If
    another area has the level of activity existing here, the workforce,
    the agreeable city/town attitudes, etc. maybe that area should have
    a topic of it's own. 
    
    The arguements for north central Mass. are far from singular to
    me. They are, however, encompassing enough to include me. That's
    who *I* am.
452.21ClarificationFIDDLE::RAICHEColor me REDThu Feb 04 1988 11:1620
    RE: .19
    
    	The response .20 made the point very well as to the original
    	reason for this topic. No one is saying "only" expand in Mass,
    	my point is that if Mass is the choice for expansion why not
    	Northwestern Worcester County? I hope that also helps clarify
    	where we are coming from.
    
    	I am not complaining about my commute. I have been doing a
    	long commute for over seven years. I went from traveling to
    	Maynard (43 miles) to Concord ( 55 miles ). I love where I
    	live and work at DEC because I love it ( 15 years and not
    	going anywhere ) too, so I go where the jobs are and accept
    	the commute. All I am saying is that it would be real nice
    	if something were closer to me and "many" other DEC employees
    	now living out my way due to the cost of living. Given all
    	that, why put a new site in a horribly congested area of the
    	state?
    							Art
    
452.22more on the mill in AtholSTUBBI::B_REINKEwhere the sidewalk endsThu Feb 04 1988 12:4317
    in re .9 I had heard the exact same rumor about the old
    UTD mill in Athol. The story has gone around the town that
    some (unnamed) business(s) had been interested but had decided
    against it because of the problems resulting from the Union
    and the long striked that helped to close the mill.
    
    re .12 Indeed one of the major problems that the local chamber
    of commerce has been working on in the Athol Orange area is the
    bad phone lines. I believe that Athol still uses mechanical switches.
    
    re .18 There is a large parking lot.
    
    I live about 10 miles north of Athol and would love to have a
    major high tech company (preferably Dec) locate a branch in
    the Athol Orange area.
    
    Bonnie
452.23Believe it or not, we have inside plumbing too!DISSRV::RAICHEColor me REDThu Feb 04 1988 13:2219
    
    	THe area we are addressing has two major electric power
    	transmission lines passing though it. One of tem goes right
    	through Athol into Orange, Barre and points South. I would
    	guess it would be fairly easy to tie into it (them).
    
    	Phones are another matter, that is unfortunately true. I
    	suspect the Athol Chamber of Commerce would love to see
    	DEC for that reason as well. DEC seems to be able to get
    	what they need when building a facility. An example is the
    	off-ramp (road) from 290 right to the driveway for the
    	Hudson facility. They agreed to build only after the state
    	agreed to the road. They are now working a similar issue in
    	Marlboro for an expansion there. I'll bet something could
    	be worked out. A large industrial user might be just the
    	economic incentive the phone company needs to improve the service
    	out that way?
    						Art
    
452.24COOKIE::WITHERSSN*W is a 4-letter word!Thu Feb 04 1988 14:308
    Well, according to yesterday's Gazette, Digital is looking to buy
    about 150 acres

    in northern El Paso County

    in Colorado ... is that far enough outside I495?    :-)  
    
    BobW      
452.25A bit far to commute!FIDDLE::RAICHEColor me REDFri Feb 05 1988 11:329
    Hi Bob,
    
    	Well, I was waiting for that :-) Actually I have visited CXO
    	and the place is beautiful, but not enough trees and green
    	for me. I just can't find a place as nice as New England.
    	Of course we have things like mosquitos while you have more
    	snakes!
    							Art
    
452.26in town, not outCNTROL::GANDARAFri Feb 05 1988 12:3821
    
    re .24
    
    I thought El Paso county was in Texas.
    must two of em,
    
    I would like to see Digital open a plant in Cambridge, around freshpond
    or tech square.
    
    Both places would attract a lot of quailifed people .
    
    This way I wouldn't have to drive out to Hudson everyday, I could
    sell my car, quit making car and insurance payments so I could afford
    to buy in the area.  Taking the T is much safer than having to drive
    in that stuff we had yesterday.
    
    It doesn't make sense to have a plant that you cant reach by public
    transportation.
    
    
    Rob
452.27Re: GadnaCUPOLA::HAKKARAINENI hear some noting downstairsFri Feb 05 1988 14:468
    
    The stories circulating from the late 60s had it that Digital wanted to
    locate in the Chair City, using on vacant land that is now the East
    Gardner Industrial Park. The City, however, wouldn't give an
    appropriate set of tax breaks for the siting. As a result, Digital
    located in Westminster, just a few miles down the road, and the
    industrial park was the home for woodchucks for the 1970s.
    
452.28Cambridge will have a siteDENTON::AMARTINAlan H. MartinSat Feb 06 1988 09:534
Re .26:

See topics 377 and 421 for information on DEC's Cambridge lab.
				/AHM
452.29Cambridge plantPLDVAX::MORRISONBob M. LMO2/P41 296-5357Sun Feb 07 1988 15:5411
>    It doesn't make sense to have a plant that you cant reach by public
>    transportation.
    
  Right on! This is the first time I have seen a comment like this in a notes
file other than Railroad. This is almost impossible near and outside I-495,
where there is no public transportation to speak of. But the LTN and CFO plants
can be reached by commuter rail.
  The earlier notes don't have an address for the Cambridge plant, but it's in
the phone book. It is at Kendall Square, short walk from the red line station.
However, I don't think it's the kind of plant .26 had in mind. It is a research
center and I doubt that anyone without a PhD could get a job there.
452.30And the price of eggs in Tibet is...CSSE::BAIRD_2Eyes of Taxes are Upon YouMon Feb 08 1988 11:0550

    
     <This Boony Boy's setting Low Flame On>

>    It doesn't make sense to have a plant that you cant reach by public
>    transportation.


     When Public Transportation makes sense I'll consider it. But...
     for that to happen some social engineer will have to figure out
     how to make the public make sense!  


>     -< Cambridge plant >-
>     Kendall Square


      Gee, am I glad. But, since the topic is:

                   "DEC - Northwestern Worcester County?"              

      I fail to see the connection of yet another facility buried in the 
      morass of Boston being appropriate here. 

     <This Boony Boy's setting Flame Off>

                               ***

     So far this topic has produced, by my reckoning, the following:

         In favor of Northwestern Worcester County:

            A Digital employee population of some (undetermined) size.
            Favorable attitudes of town officials toward DEC building.
               (New administrations and agendas rendering past roadblocks
                into mostly non-issues.)
            A willing workforce to provide for staffing of unskilled and
               semi-skilled positions.
            A good quality of life environment in terms of clean air and
               water.

         In question in Northwestern Worcester County:

            Support facilities and the potential for improvement.
               (Electricity (?), telephone, roads, sewage treatment)
            Public transportation to/from the area.

         Not yet discussed is the type of facility that might be best
         suited for location in the area.  Any thoughts?      
452.31Cottage Industry Anyone??WRECKS::BLAKELearning Every Day, Growing All The TimeMon Feb 08 1988 12:4827
    re. .30:
    
    The type of facility would, most likely, be engineering. The "work"
    could be easily "communicated" via net and a helipad would facilitate
    easy movement of people like product managers. In my experience,
    customers don't spend alot of time with the *pure* engineering function
    as much as base product marketing and product management.
    
    Being in employemnt I see a large % of applicants from northern
    and western parts of Worcester county asking the same question.
    When I think about the Barre Wool mills (sewage, phone,etc all in
    place) I wonder why not. I own land in New Braintree which I'd love
    to build on, may anyway. The commute to MLO would be  58 miles one
    way versus the 6 miles I am now doing,  I am not a glutton for that
    type of commute, not yet, anyway.
    
    Just a thought: If you put your ear to the rail you'll hear noises
    like "cottage" industry now and then. If AT&T, GTE, MCI do actually
    upgrade their "nets", I could see individauls doing work from home
    and meeting once or twice a week at some central point to discuss
    progress, scheduels, etc. Think of the gasoline, alone, it would
    save, the day care issue would virtually vanish...... I could see
    the side of the debate that says the system would be abused, or
    at least be a strong temptation, but I'd vote for a pilot pogram.
    It would be easy to set up and easy to measure..... who knows???!!!
    
    Bill who-left-his-heart-in-western-Massachusetts
452.32"Cottage"TSE::LEFEBVREBirth...School...Work...DeathMon Feb 08 1988 14:585
    re .31...
    
    Bill, not to go off on a tangent, but do you read Alvin Toffler?
    
    Mark.
452.33DIGITAL has it now!CVG::THOMPSONFamous Ex-NoterMon Feb 08 1988 15:138
    RE: .31 There is a notes conference dedicated to tele commuting.
    It's at ALIEN::TELEWORK (or BEING::TELEWORK). There are some very
    good stories about people who are working from home right now. DEC
    does support telecommuting already. Not as often as we could but
    perhaps now that VAXes cost so little there will be more of it soon.
    
    
    				Alfred
452.34ULTRA::SEKURSKIMon Feb 08 1988 17:4925
    
    
    
    	Back to power again... The towns with old wool mills probably
    	have very old power generating/distribution equipment that are
    	woefully outdated and never designed to provide the power
    	that modern day computer rooms suck up. The problem comes trying
    	to convince the local power company that DEC or some other company
    	with similar needs will generate enough profit to make the costly
    	upgrade worthwhile. 
    
    	The wool mills were constructed probably before many, if any,
    	building regulations/codes were required so that many costly 
    	renovations may be required before an occupancy permit will
    	be issued. Then there's increased traffic on local roads so 
    	the town has to consider spending more money road upkeep. In order 
    	for the town to do many of these upgrades it would have to raise 
    	property taxes for which a majority of the residents maybe
    	oppossed to. DEC or any other hi-tech company would have it's 
    	hands full with fulfilling mandatory regulations and renovations 
    	it would probably be looking for a tax break so I'm not sure
    	how helpful the corporation would be in that position.
    	
    					Mike
    					----
452.35power in partic��ular not in generalSTUBBI::B_REINKEwhere the sidewalk endsMon Feb 08 1988 22:468
    The particular mill that has been underdiscussion here is a recently
    closed tool manufacturing mill which had should not have had a power
    problem. There is another mill next to it which has its' own generating
    plant and there is a power grid right next to the plant.�

    However, the author ��of .34 is correct in most cases. And this
    note is showing some of the phone noise problems.
    
452.36Barre Woolen MillFIDDLE::RAICHEColor me REDTue Feb 09 1988 11:5016
    
    The question of the Barre Woolen Mill is an interesting one. I didn't
    bring up the mill because of the problems mentioned in .34 and I
    have commented about the road situation in Barre. The access,
    especially for trucks, is terrible. I can't see DEC in that facility.
    
    Coincidentally, I was talking to some Barre folks this weekend and
    the topic of the MIll came up when we were discussing the sewer
    system being installed in town. A resident who lives in South Barre,
    which is the actual location of the mill, told me it has been purchased
    by a local businessman and he is hoping to remodle it into a variety
    of uses; supermarket, small shops and businesses and some rental
    units or condominiums. It will be interesting to see what happens
    to it.
    							Art
    
452.37<Lunatic from Beverly>CELICA::KNELSONWed Feb 17 1988 16:588
    How about us loonies who live on the North Shore?  I live in Beverly,
    work in Concord, drive 128 every day (yes, I *am* loony), and enjoy
    my job.  Gossip has it that our group is supposed to move to Bolton
    in 18 months to 2 years...I'll cross that bridge when I come to
    it, of course, but it does give one pause to think...
    
    BTW, we bought our house long before I joined DEC!  
    
452.38Bolton???ULTRA::HERBISONLess functionality, more featuresThu Feb 18 1988 10:5110
        
>    Gossip has it that our group is supposed to move to Bolton
>    in 18 months to 2 years...
        
        Bolton doesn't sound right, it has highly restrictive zoning
        laws and I can't see the town allowing a DEC facility.  Could
        the rumor be Boylston (the site of the future training facility)
        or Lancaster (future MSB location)?
        
        					B.J.
452.39Isn't the "T" Public Transportation??WELKIN::STRONACHThu Feb 18 1988 14:497
In response .26 --

  But there is public transportation -- the "T" runs thru to Gardner from
Boston -- goes thru towns such Concord, Littleton, Ayr, Shirley, Leominster,
Fitchburg, etc. etc.  :>)

  
452.40M.A.R.T. makes the connectionCSSE::BAIRD_2Eyes of Taxes are Upon YouThu Feb 18 1988 15:576
    
    Re: -1
    
    Close, but.... The 'T' stops at Fitchburg. It's a bus trip to Gardner.
    
                                         J.T.B.
452.41DEC in Bolton?ANGORA::MORRISONBob M. LMO2/P41 296-5357Thu Feb 18 1988 16:176
Re public transportation in northern Worc. County: Yes, it does exist but it's
very limited compared to what's available in Greater Boston. I'm not suggest-
ing that DEC should build plants closer to Boston to take advantage of public
transportation.
Re future DEC plant in Bolton: A plant is going up on the south side of 117,
0.2 mile west of I-495. Maybe that is where DEC is going.
452.42NAC::NOURSEThu Feb 18 1988 19:3625
  > If AT&T, GTE, MCI do actually upgrade their "nets"...

    Hah!!!!  In Bolton, not that far west, we don't even have touch-tone,
    let alone equal access (or any access to GTE or MCI, "we don't serve
    that exchange").  What we do have is an ancient mechanical phone
    exchange and a 3-town local calling area.  We also have lots of }}}}}}}}
    and the ever-popular ~~~, rubouts sent to the system, and sometimes,
    UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU (noisy line puts modem into test mode,
    time to hang up).  I have had better luck dialing up Littleton from San
    Francisco than from Bolton.  When we call long distance (everything)
    we dial 1 and hear an earsplitting clunk followed by either HISSSSSSSS
    or several more clunks and a dialtone back again (try again some
    other time).  My DEC modem does not recognize the dialtone in our
    exchange as a dialtone, by the way.
    
    Coming soon, eleven pulse-dialed digits to call Boston from Bolton.
    
    When I complained to the phone company about the quality of the phone
    service, the 'service representative' said, "If you want modern
    telephone service you will have to move to a more urban location." 
    
    Now if that building that is being built right next door to me
    (really) is for DEC, that may help convince the phone company
    to upgrade the phone exchange here.
    
452.43Changes in BoltonULTRA::HERBISONLess functionality, more featuresFri Feb 19 1988 09:5120
        Re: .12 & .42 (Phone service in Clinton and Bolton)
        
        Both the Clinton and Bolton phone systems are scheduled for
        some sort of conversion/update, Bolton on 26 February 1989
        and Clinton on 3 November 1990.  However, the customer service
        representatives don't know what the conversion will involve
        (and claim the exact change has not been determined yet). 
        
        Re: .41
        
> Re future DEC plant in Bolton: A plant is going up on the south side of 117,
> 0.2 mile west of I-495. Maybe that is where DEC is going.
        
        No such luck.  I called the Bolton Town Clerk's office to check.
        The building is owned by Flatley and all 100,000 square feet are
        leased to Yankee Atomic (a company based in Framingham).  Some
        representative from Yankee Atomic stopped by a few days ago to
        introduce himself to the town officials. 
        
        					B.J.
452.44At some point in time....WRECKS::BLAKELearning Every Day, Growing All The TimeFri Feb 19 1988 21:498
    re. .42:
    
    You CHOSE to live in Bolton, clearly, based on average home prices
    in Bolton, you had mega alternatives. .43 is correct, your phone
    system will get upgraded soon. So relax, enjoy your ecology, your
    Rebook and be patient.
    
    Bill.
452.45A bit of the real phone storyNAC::PLOUFFLANsman WesFri Feb 26 1988 00:4122
    re: .last few
    
    The phone company visited Bolton Selectmen's meetings twice in the
    last few months.  The planned upgrade is to carry local calls via
    fiber to a huge exchange just north of Worcester.  This new exchange
    will apparently serve most of the small towns in the north part
    of the county, while another in Auburn will handle the south part.
    The small local exchange plants will disappear.
    
    The Bolton exchange was installed in 1955, and the last local operators
    left in 1958.  I suspect that most of the smaller exchanges in
    Worcester County were installed within a few years of those dates,
    and New England Telephone has not exactly kept its capital spending
    high in the interim.
    
    Getting information not in the script from the phone company is
    tough, but doable.  Try talking to Community Relations types in
    Worcester and Boston as a starting point.
    
    Sorry to digress so far from the original topic, but it appears
    that phone service will NOT be a strike against facilities outside
    Rte. 495 after the next few years.
452.46Mabel, get me Finnegan's hardware store, please!COVERT::COVERTJohn R. CovertFri Feb 26 1988 10:057
>    The Bolton exchange was installed in 1955, and the last local operators
>    left in 1958.

BTW, what this doesn't mention:  Up until then, Bolton, and most small towns
outside 128, had only "number-please" service, no dial telephones at all.

/john
452.47Unofficial Scorecard UpdateCSSE::BAIRD_2Eyes of Taxes are Upon YouFri Feb 26 1988 12:4839

      Much better gang. So after the last 15 or so responses it seems
      we have one less item in question and one more item in favor.

      Baring any new questionable items, this would work out to about
      60 or so more notes to make Northwestern Worcester County a very 
      hard place for Digital to overlook.

      I reversed the order of my previous entry (.30) with this update and
      in spite of my nature to be sarcastic, I really am more interested
      in the drawbacks rather than the benefits.
         ************************************************************

     So far this topic has produced, by my reckoning, the following:

         In question in Northwestern Worcester County:

            Support facilities and the potential for improvement.
               o Electricity (?) 
               o Roads 
               o Sewage treatment
            Public transportation to/from the area.

         (Not yet discussed is the type of facility, beyond 'cottage,' that 
         might be best suited for location in the area.  Any thoughts?)      

         In favor of Northwestern Worcester County:

            A Digital employee population of some (undetermined) size.
            Favorable attitudes of town officials toward DEC building.
               (New administrations and agendas rendering past roadblocks
                into mostly non-issues.)
            A willing workforce to provide for staffing of unskilled and
               semi-skilled positions.
            A good quality of life environment in terms of clean air and
               water.
           >Quality phone service on a consistent basis is rapidly(?) 
               becoming a reality. (At least it's being worked.)
452.48New sites!?DISSRV::RAICHEColor me REDMon Feb 29 1988 13:2917
    
    	In case some of you haven't heard of some other buildings
    going up, here are some I came to know about recently:
    
    2 new buildings in Westford
    1 new building in Maynard (like they really need another one)
    1-2 in Chelsmford
    MR4 in Marlboro
    VRO6 (just moving people in)
    Merrimack is building another
    Littleton - another at LKG facility (seems like there is one on
    		every road in that town
    
    I am sure there are more than this as well. Do you believe it?
    
    							Art
    
452.49Another oneREGENT::GETTYSBob Gettys N1BRM 223-6897Mon Feb 29 1988 15:554
                And you missed the one in Littleton just across the
        street from the LTN complex.
                
                /s/     Bob