Conference 7.286::digital

    In quieter times when there is no risk of les gendarmes sneaking
    up behind you and blowing your Land's End Square Rigger carry-on
    to smithereens, it is nevertheless common sense not to leave your
    bags lying around. The reason for this is that someone might steal
    them, in which case you'll never see them again, not even in the
    form of small smouldering fragments of canvas and plastic.
    
    Richard.

After 15+ years of awareness of the terrorist threat it becomes second 
nature. Additionally don't carry _anything_ for _anybody_ onto an aircraft.
Terrorists and drug dealers use people who they have met on a
friendly or business basis to carry their goods onto aircraft.

Dave.

Having received one of many other copies of this message, I believe it is
not from the person in NIO shown in the header in .0, but from George Brothers.

From:	NAME: BROTHERS                      
	FUNC: EURO SECURITY MNGR
	TEL: (7)830-4696 <180974@DECMAIL@GVAML4@GEO>
Date:	06-Jul-1987
Posted-date: 03-Jul-1987
Precedence: 1
Subject: POLICE ANTI TERRORIST ACTIVITIES AT EUROPEAN AIRPORTS
...

    Well done, the French Police.
    
    Peter.
    

    Another point worth remarking upon here is that while is may recently
    have become especially advisable to not leave luggage unattended
    at certain French, or maybe all European, airports the vulnerability
    of unattended luggage to theft has existed for many years at airports,
    railway stations, bus stations, etc. all over the world, including
    the USA.
    
    I suppose I don't really see the point of the memo in .0
    
    	Richard.

  There is a difference between the slight chance that baggage might
be stolen and the high probability that it will be seized and des-
troyed by the 'gendarmes'. I wouldn't recommend that anyone leave
luggage unattended in any airport, but I would certainly want to
know about it if there were a policy of blowing up unattended lug-
gage. A harried traveler could easily fail to see the "numerous
multilingual signs". 

	> A harried traveler could easily fail to see the "numerous
	>multilingual signs". 

    Oh, C'mon, you cannot be serious. If you can't see the signs that
    may save your life (i.e., "Emergenct Exit", etc), and the
    signs that tell you to watch your luggage, then you probably
    can't see the check-in desks either.....
    
    or the signs telling you which gate to use....
    
    or the signs for the toilet, or the bar, or the duty-free
    shop, or....   need I go on??
    
    If you get your luggage blown up then you deserve it.
    
    Peter.
    

    

I'm sorry.... But I just spent a number of days in Montreal and when the only 
English you find is usually in smaller print below the French sign, you can 
miss quite a bit!

On our honeymoon in Montreal a few years ago, my wife was navigating and I was
driving. She said go over the bridge....after I passed the entrance to the
bridge, she asked why I didn't go over the bridge like she asked. I said I
didn't see any entrance for a bridge....However, I did see a sign that said
PONT (French for Bridge)! 
    
Jim

    

re .8:

Do you drive around inside airports and stations?

Dave :-)

    Reminds me of an American (Texan, anyway :-)  I heard complaining,
    while in Paris, that the policeman (sic) he'd asked directions from didn't
    even speak English!  (And how many police in the U.S. speak French,
    I wanted to ask him?)
    
    	MKV
    

    Signs require active use.  If I want to find a bathroom I look for
    a rest room sign.  When I need an exit I look for an exit sign.
    
    When I want to have someone blow up my luggage I look for a sign that
    tells me ....
    
    KMc
    

    English is the common language of international travel (for example,
    air traffic controllers), even though some countries don't like
    that much, so signs are usually expressed in English as well as
    the local language (in big characters), and neighboring local languages
    (in small characters) - often Japanese.  So, if you know to be looking
    for it, and are not too dead from your 48-hour flight (I did one
    of those a few months ago - sleeping on planes and in terminal waiting
    rooms - not great fun!), you can probably find the sign that says
    they blow up unattended luggage.
    It's much easier to spot the international icon signs, though
    some of them are rather cryptic (the one for elevators (="lifts"
    if you're British) took me a while to figure out.).
    What's the international icon for "we blow up unattended luggage"?
    
            /\  /\  /\  /\
           /  \/  \/  \/  \
          /  ____________  \
         /  /___/===\___/|  \
        /   |           ||   \                ;-)
        \   |  BOOM!    ||   /                /Charlotte
         \  |           ||  /
         /  |___________|/   \
        /                    / 
         \  /\  /\  /\  /\  /          
          \/  \/  \/  \/  \/           

    re .10
    
    The question about how many American policemen speak French begs
    another question..
    
    How many American Policemen speak ENGLISH??
    
    Jim :-)

    Re: previous few. The airport signs are there for you to read whilst
    waiting for oyur delayed flight....                  
    
    More seriously, though, what disturbs me about this sort of memo
    is that it heightens already ridiculous American paranoia regarding
    safety in Europe. People who bravely walk the streets of New York
    or Chicago suddenly become whimpering idiots the moment they step
    off the plane over here, looking for Iranian/Libyan/etc bombers
    whereever they go! Let's at least keep things in perspective - Europe
    as a whole is still far safer than large parts of the US. Look at
    the crime statistics for New York and then compare them with the
    whole of the UK, for an example...
    
    Gavin

    RE: .-1
    
    	.-1 you dont consider a few things.  Americans visiting Europe
    for the 1st time may feel uncertain already.  They may not know
    whom to call in an emergency.  Most Americans never have the
    opporitunity to visit Europe, and a lot only are able to visit once.
    If someone is shot down the street from your house it's bad, but
    if someone is shot near your hotel in a foreign country it can be a
    much worse experience.  And, a lot of Americans can carry a weapon,
    legally of course, when going into a "bad" area.  In Europe this
    isnt advised, or is illegal.  Then, most Americans visit big cities,
    London, Paris, Athens, etc.  So, the chances are great they would
    be relatively close to any incidents.  At home, those same incidents
    could be 2000 miles away (in the same country, of course; & not all
    Americans are from NYC!).  Then, Americans can vacation 1000's of
    miles away, seeing everything from swamps, deserts, glaciers,
    mountains, oceans, gulfs, bays, lakes, farm land, many cities over
    1M people and still not change currency, speak another language(but
    keep in mind there are more Americans who understand Spanish than there
    are Mexicans & Spanish combined who speak english!), or bother with
    a bunch of passports and visas.  In other words...when in doubt,
    who needs it?  I understand'm.
    
    Keith

    The sad thing about the situation described in the memo, and the impression
    it creates on traveling Americans, is not that it gives an inaccurate
    impression of the risks of European travel (which it does), but that
    security in American airports is so incredibly bad that this should be a 
    surprise.
    
    What is being described is good basic security.
    
    It seems that Americans (and others, let's not be jingoistic about this),
    not only feel nervous when away from home (and deprived of personal
    armories), but also leave most of their common sense at home.
    
    /. Ian .\

>    security in American airports is so incredibly bad ...
>    What is being described is good basic security.

A level of security involving blowing up briefcases left in DEC conference
rooms or airports may be required in Europe where there is significant
terrorist activity.

DEC facilities and U.S. airports do not need that level of security -- the
threat of terrorist activity is simply not as great.

/john

�the threat of terrorist activity is simply not as great.
     
 In view of the increasing level of US involvement in the Iran/Iraq war,
 the repeated Iranian references to using terrorism to bring the war to America,
 and previous problems with other Arab terrorist groups I am not sure that
 I can find that attitude other than dangerously complacent.
 
 If I were a security guard at say Logan airport, and somebody left a briefcase
 in the departure area of a plane destined for say Israel, I personally
 would feel happier having a trained bomb squad remove it than being expected
 to pick it up and take it to lost property, or worse, leave it where it
 is.
 
 Security is not subject to relativity: security in US airports is by and
 large laughable. (A recent FAA report showed that in 40% of their test
 attempts they got firearms through security and onto planes). Current X-ray
 testing won't detect the sophisticated explosives and detonators available
 to todays state sponsored terrorists. Anti-tamper devices are sensitive
 enough to detonate a case bomb if it is moved, gently lifted, or even rotated
 relative to the earth's magnetic field. Not to mention something major
 like opening the locks on the case.
 
 Qestion therefore: the only safe assumption about an abandoned case is
 that it represents an immediate threat to life. You have no means of telling
 what is in it, and cannot open it. What would you do with it?
 
 /. Ian .\

 

    RE: Last several
    
    This topic is starting to develop into something that would be better
    handled in SOAPBOX.
    
    			Alfred