Conference 7.286::digital

    Yes.
    	Steve

Not only are you entitled to it, but you also help DEC negotiate future quantity
discounts.  And DEC may even get an end-of-year rebate on part of your rental
fee, if the current contract provides for such a thing (as the AVIS contract
used to).

/john

I wonder if you should declare it as a benefit on your tax return?

Dave.

I remember seeing  an  article  a  few  years back in DTW or maybe the local
newsletter encouraging employees to  make  use of the corporate discounts on
personal travel etc.  I had no trouble obtaining the corporate discount from
National  at  the  Car  Care  Center in Walt Disney World  this  past  april
(obvious  business  travel  ;^)), in fact the Rental Agent recommend the DEC
discount  over the Magic Kingdom Club discount which ended up saving me more
$$$'s.
    
Claude
    

    I have a question.  When you rent for personal use, should you also
    decline all those different insurance plans that the Avis, National,
    etc. offer?  Sometimes taking the insurance can come close to the
    price of renting the actual car!

reply to < Note 327.5 by YODA::NEWMAN >

>                                -< insurance? >-
>    I have a question.  When you rent for personal use, should you also
>    decline all those different insurance plans that the Avis, National,
>    etc. offer? 
    
    With exception to Mass  auto  policies, most auto policies cover you for
    the deductible if you have  an  accident  on a rental car, so you really
    don't need to buy CDW insurrance through the rental agency, since you'll
    be insuring yourself twice.  As far as  medical  coverage  it depends on
    how adequate you feel the John Hancock or HMO plans are, they both cover
    on trips etc.
    
    BTW on the car I rented at Walt Disney World the agent never asked me if
    I  wanted CDW or Medical, she automatically crossed it out and  I  never
    said I wanted it.
    
    Claude

    When you're traveling on business, you decline the insurance because
    digital has a blanket corporate travel policy that covers you. When
    on pleasure, you are NOT covered by this policy. If you own personal
    auto insurance covers you, then fine, no reason to pay twice. If
    not, better pay-up or risk paying a deductible as high as $5000.
    
    							--- Neal

    Note that some of the sleazier car rental outfits won't allow you
    to decline their damage waivier without putting up the entire
    waivier amount in advance.  Your protests that you already have
    insurance will fall on deaf ears.  Usually these are the low-ball
    rates you get with tour packages.  Luckily, I had read the fine
    print and was prepared with an Amex card on which I could post the
    $2500 waivier - many others in my group weren't as well prepared
    and ended up paying double the quoted rate.
    
			Steve

I'm going on a pleasure trip and just checked with Metropolitan:
If no one else is able to drive my car when I'm away, Metropolitan
will cover collision damage.  They will not cover theft-flavored
damageds, however.  (Hmm, wonder whether my home-owners policy
covers that?)

You might want to check with your agent.

Martin.

    RE: .7
    
    	If I'm not mistaken, it's "ok" to decline the insurance if you
    	are using the DEC discount and are NOT on business. I do believe
    	you are covered.. I know that someone in my group looked it
    	up. I'll ask him to write something.
    
    							mike

>    	If I'm not mistaken, it's "ok" to decline the insurance if you
>    	are using the DEC discount and are NOT on business. I do believe
>    	you are covered..

When you're not on business, you're not covered by anything that DEC provides.

Thus the only answer you can get that will be correct is from your own
auto insurance company.  There are no global answers.

/john

        Double check your DEC discount against other discount rates
        offered. Our daily rate is pretty good, but our weekly rate is
        high. I once rented an AVIS car for personal use when in Houston
        for a week. The DEC discount was $168 for the week, if I hadn't
        asked for the discount I would have paid $139. Needless to say, I
        declined the discount, and rented for $139. 
        
        I thought that the CDW was picked up by AVIS, not DEC under our
        corporate agreement, thus not needed on personal rentals. I
        haven't worried about this, since my personal insurance also
        covers me, but you should probably triple check this before paying
        their gross charges for this coverage. 

    I, too, discovered that the corporate discount didn't buy me anything
    renting a car for a week from National in Florida.
    
    I've also discovered that one of my Visa cards covers collision
    damage upto $5000 for any car rented on that car.  This, at least,
    makes the issue moot for me (but I still need to read the fine print).
    
       Gary

    re .13:  Better double check that Visa figure; mine is $3000.  Also
    remember that at least some agencies in some places no longer have
    a fixed limit on the amount that you are liable for.  $3000 or $5000
    might not be enough.
    
    Burns
    

BTW, our corporate agreement with AVIS is supposed to provide us the *lowest*
rate, either local or corporate, and the WIZARD is supposed to automatically
figure out which to apply.

In some cases, our rate even applies a discount to local rates, which the local
people think is pre-discounted.  This used to really bother the station in
Charlotte when I was renting cars there.  The corporate rate was about $20/day
then; they had a $40 weekend rate; I would take a car at their weekend rate
and end up paying only something like $35.

/john

     I was  always  under  the  impression that DEC's AVIS & NATIONAL car
     rental agreements GAVE  DEC  (FREE)  the CDW coverage as part of our
     contract.  I do  believe  that  I  had some document from DEC-Travel
     stating this plus the fact  that  we  were  ENTITLED to the same DEC
     discount rates when renting for "personal  use".    I  readily admit
     that  the  DEC PP&P on VTX "implies"  otherwise  (stating  that  DEC
     self-insures the CDW). Now I am not sure anymore...
     
     However, I spoke with my auto insurance company  (AMICA)  on  Friday
     afternoon and received the following (current) information:
     
        Mass Laws  state  that  our auto insurance coverage for collision
        and personal liability  will pick-up where the auto rental agency
        policy leaves off for  any  losses, but any deductibles which you
        carry on your personal auto  policies  will apply.  [e.g.  assume
        that  you  suffer  a  $6K loss  in  a  rental  collision  without
        additional CDW--thus a $3K deductible from the  rental agency and
        your  personal  auto  policy  has  a $300 deductible:  Your  auto
        policy  will  pay the $3K less the $300 deductible to the  rental
        agency!]  This  also  covers  you when driving a rental in ALL 50
        states, and the same coverage applies if ANYONE in your household
        (who is specifically  listed  on  your  policy) rents the car (it
        need not be the "owner" of the personal autos).
        
        Mass  Laws  were  recently  amended  to  "clarify"  the  lack  of
        comprehensive (fire, theft,  broken  glass)  under  your personal
        auto insurance policies when  renting a car.  Apparently, the way
        the old law was written  "implied"  that rental coverage would be
        covered, although this was not supposed to be the case.
        
        If you live in  a  different  state,  check  with  your insurance
        company, since the above-mentioned coverage  may be different (or
        non-existent) in your state.
        
     Len

    
    
    	Also, for more info, read note 87.9 in DELNI::ON_THE_ROAD.
    	It kinda confirms what I said earlier about declining CDW.
    
    						mike

    RE: .16
      I checked in early May with Metropolitan before going on vacation
    about coverage when renting a car.  The agents there told me I was
    NOT covered under Mass. law.  Thus, I ended up paying $8.95 per
    day to Hertz while driving during 7 days of vacation.  When did
    the Massachusetts' laws change to cover me?  BTW, I do have fairly
    complete coverage via METPAY.  
    
    Greg
    

       Can we also get corporate rates on Hotels?

>       Can we also get corporate rates on Hotels?

Yes.

    RE-327.19
    
    Yes you can,I just did it in Boston. You don't need anything to
    prove it, just tell them you work forDigita.
    
    D.F

Re: .19, .21

You can certainly get the discount, but it depends where you are as to how
easy it is to get the it.  In some places just saying "I work for Digital"
has the desired result, but in most places you *must* be able to quote the
Corporate Discount ID number.

Could someone please post the current list of numbers here.

Jeremy Barker - Reading, England

re .22:

>You can certainly get the discount, but it depends where you are as to how
>easy it is to get the it.  In some places just saying "I work for Digital"
>has the desired result, but in most places you *must* be able to quote the
>Corporate Discount ID number.

Showing your picture badge (in Europe) as proof of identity has been good
enough for me.

Dave.

    The rental car counters usually have a book that lists, by company
    name, the discount agreement number and rates.
    
    	-Barry-
    

You can look up the numbers in the VTX Policies and Procedures database.

It's in the travel policy.

/john

>    I checked in early May with Metropolitan before going on vacation
>    about coverage when renting a car.  The agents there told me I was
>    NOT covered under Mass. law.  Thus, I ended up paying $8.95 per
>    day to Hertz while driving during 7 days of vacation.  When did
>    the Massachusetts' laws change to cover me?

This seems to be moot when renting from AVIS since DEC's agreement apparently
really covers it, as opposed to it being DEC self-insuring (in which case I
would think you would be on your own for a non-business rental).  Of course,
that could change with the next negotiation of the contract!

My insurance company had always told me in the past that I was covered.  I
called them again last week and they repeated that I was.  I then asked them
to please send me a letter confirming coverage.  It arrived today:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... Your Massachusetts auto policy automatically provides coverage for Bodily
Injury and Property Damage when you drive a rental vehicle.  Your liability
protection in the rental car is identical to the coverage you carry on your
own car.  Generally, the rental agency's liability coverage will pay first and
your own policy will provide excess coverage in the event the rental agency's
liability limits are insufficient.

In Massachusetts, loss or damage to a rental car is covered by the physical
damage portion of your policy only if the rental vehicle qualifies as a
"substitute auto," as provided under the definition of "Your Auto" contained
in Part 26 of the Massachusetts Automobile Insurance Policy.  For vehicles that
qualify as a "substitute," whatever Comprehensive and Collision deductibles you
carry on your car apply to the rental.  Therefore, for a vehicle qualifying as
a "substitute," your auto policy will pay any remaining repair cost in excess
of your deductible.

Depending on the size or your deductible and what you can afford out of pocket,
you may wish to purchase the "extra insurance" offered by the rental agency.  If
you do not carry Comprehensive or Collision on your own vehicles, or if the
rental vehicle does not qualify as a "substitute," then you do not have this
coverage for a rental car and should probably buy the "extra insurance."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Needless to say, I was annoyed to find out that they had been telling me that I
was covered when I wasn't...  Section 26 defines substitute in a manner that
would only let it apply to a rental car in the event that your normally insured
car was "out of normal use because of breakdown, repair, servicing, loss, or
destruction."

/john

Is "section 26" part of Metropolitan's master auto policy for Mass.?
I just applied for auto insurance from Metpay and, having read about
the loopholes in this notesfile and in the AAA magazine, I asked some
questions about rental car coverage. The agent said she thought I
would be covered. I asked if I would be covered if I let someone 
else drive my car while I had a rental car and she said she didn't
think so, but was surprised by the question. Apparently few people
ask questions like this.
  This is slightly off the subject, but I was on the fence about
whether to get comprehensive (fire, theft, glass breakage) coverage.
I decided I would, and as an aside the agent said that a collision
with an animal such as a deer is not covered by collision insur-
ance but falls in the category of "comprehensive". How many people
would think to ask about this? The more I hear, the more I think
I'd better get a copy of Metpay's master auto policy (or whatever
they call it) for Mass. and read it.

       Also on the side. Most people are paying for personal injury
    coverage on their auto policies that won't start to pay until their
    personal (John Hancock, HMO, etc.) coverage runs out. I cancelled
    mine and saved a little bit of money. The state (Mass.) in another
    cozy deal with the insurance co's. requires a minimum amount as
    compulsory but most agents automatically add more. I'm talking about
    injury to you or your family, not the other guy. You'll probably
    never use it.
                                                   Denny

              <<< HUMAN::WRKD$:[NOTES_ARCHIVE]ASKENET_V2.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -< Ask the Easynet, V2 >-
================================================================================
Note 512.1                Corporate Discounts, Motels                     1 of 4
WFOVX3::KLEINBERGER "Gale Kleinberger"               36 lines  23-JUL-1986 09:47
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From the Business Expense Policy...
    
    Digital has worldwide hotel corporate agreements with the hotel
    chains listed below.  Digital also has a number of locally negotiated
    commercial rates with hotels/motels.  When possible, use these hotels
    and identify yourself as a Digital employee to obtain the special
    rates.  Request room cancellation time when making reservations.
     If plans change, cancel room reservations early and request a
    cancellation number to advoid paying for the rooms.
    
    HOTEL CHAIN					Digital Corp I.D. Number
    
    Best Westren				10044-7
    Harley Hotels				C-10-50560
    Hilton					HP8305
    Hilton Internation				Request EBS Rate
    Holiday Inn					15402-4
    Howard Johnson				C135601
    Quality Inns				014320
    Ramada Inns					903158-0001
    Sheraton					09292CA
    Travelodge International			Request TPT Rate - BBC07002
    
    
    Other numbers for traveling are:
    
    CAR RENTAL AGENCIES				Digital Corp ID Number
    
    Avis Car Rental				126200
    National Car Rental				5202000
    
    

    Hope this helps...
    
    	- Gale

What about discounts on Airline fares? Does Digital have agreements with
certain airlines that can also be used for personel use?

Jim

    Digital does not receive discounts on air fares, at least not any
    discount greater than what Joe Average Traveller could obtain from
    a sharp travel agent.  The example I like to use are looking at
    air fares from Boston to Detroit, which is normally $250.  But if
    you schedule from Boston to Grand Rapids (Michigan) *via* Detroit
    (and then just get off in Detroit), the fare is $180.  But then
    again, you could easily beat both those fares by scheduling your
    trip in advance.
    
    The only place Digital receives "discounts" on air fares is when
    they negotiate with the airlines for a specific route during specific
    dates.  Examples would be for DECUS, or with the European customers
    coming to the US in September for DECworld 87.
    
    Jon

    re: .29 and discount numbers
    
    I just tried to use the numbers given for Avis and National Car Rental
    (which match the ones in the VTX Policies and Procedures) and came
    up with the following:
    
    	1) The person at Avis asked for the "letter prefix" to the
    	   number listed.  I couldn't find one, so no-go there.
    
    	2) At National, before I remembered about these numbers, I got 
    	   a quote of $138 for one week (thurs to thurs) in Pittsburgh (700
    	   free miles, $.30/mile thereafter).  With the number, it was $240 
    	   and I didn't ask about the mileage.
    
    Who knew?
    
    -joe tomkowitz

The "letter prefix" for Avis is "A" if you're a U.S. employee and "E" if you're
European.  Hmmm... I wonder if there's a difference..., and I wonder about GIA.

The AVIS Wizard system will (theoretically) always pick the lower of any local
rate and the Corporate rate.  Whether National's Computer is clever enough to
do that or not I don't know.

/john

    I've usually not had to give a number or anything to Avis.  I just
    say that I am from Digital.
    
    Burns
    

I just returned from a trip to beautiful MKO, and flew in via the 
Manchester airport, and got my rental blues from the Avis counter there.

Not checking the form before leaving, I ended up with a rental where I was
charged a daily rate, PLUS a per (excess?) miles charge, PLUS a partial day
rate, for a Toyota Corolla 4dr.

Total charges were, therefore,

	mileage		 6.60
	2 extra hrs	20.32
	1st day		30.50
plus refule charge

This doesn't agree with the Digital contract, does it? I don't think so, 
and this is complicated because the folks at the Manchsester airport say 
that since they are a separately owned business, CONTRACTED by AVIS (and 
therefore allowed to use their name, etc), they DON'T HAVE TO abide by the 
Digital/AVIS contract. Is this true? What's the story?

    Bullsh*t!!!!!
    
    I have rented many cars one way from Boston to Manchester. If they
    are renting or receiving AVIS cars (ie cars they don't own), then
    they are bound by all policies and procedures of AVIS CORP.

    The charges sound  about  right,  I  used the Manchester NH location for
    business and personal many a  time,  for  one  way  rental  to Logan and
    always ended up paying around (my last trip to SGO this past July)
    
         $30.50  /day for Time and Milage
          $5.53  for one time fuel charge(not extra mileage)
         $10.16  ea. additional hour
    
    I ended up paying 36.03 since I only had the car for about 15 hours, and
    on the return from Logan to Manchester the charges where quoted as
    
         $30.50  /day for Time and Milage
          $7.26  for one time fuel charge
          $2.19  Tax (good old mass)
         $10.16  ea. additional hour

    I ended up paying 39.95, and the SGO (Myaguez Airport)
                      
         $32.00  /day for Time and Milage
         $10.28  for one time fuel charge
         $10.67  ea. additional hour
    
    Total charge for three days was 106.78.   (always a Toyota Corrola class
    of car)
    
    Claude    

    I recently returned from San Francisco where I rented an Avis car
    for eight days.  The Avis agent informed me that she could offer
    a significantly lower rate than the DEC corporate rate.  When I
    asked about this, she said that the DEC rate is geared towards
    short rentals of 3 days or less, and that longer rentals, especially
    in high-volume/tourist areas like SFO, were usually eligible for
    lower rates.   In addition, she upgraded me a class from a Chevy
    Nova to a Celebrity (personally, would have preferred the Nova except
    I wouldn't fit in it).
    
    The rate worked out to:
    
    		1 week @	$138.00
    		1 day  @	 $35.00

    		Total		$173.00
    
    This included 700 free miles (the DEC rate is unlimited mileage).
    Extra miles would have been 30 cents (if any).
    
    			Steve

    RE: .35,.36
    
    They are right.  Certain 'big name' (Avis, Hertz) rental car locations,
    generally at small airports, are privately owned franchises that can
    decide on an individual basis to honor corporate discounts.  Note that
    there is a difference in renting a car from Avis in Boston to drop off
    in Manchester and renting a car in Manchester.  In the former case,
    your contract is with Avis Corp.  In the latter, your contract is with
    Joe's rental car co.  An Avis affiliate.  In a previous life at United
    Technologies, I ran into the same problem with Hertz at some small
    airports. 

    re .35,.36,.39
    
    If you rent a car from Avis in Nashua (doing business at the Sheraton
    Tara) you can get the DEC rate.  However, it appears that Nashua
    is part of the Manchester operation.  At least the cars that they
    send there say Manchester on them.
    
    Burns
    

    Back to "should you also decline all those insurnace plans that
    Avis, National, etc"
    
    For people that have  Gold American Express.
    
    Effective Nov. 1, 1987 Gold card members will automatically be covered
    by $15000 car rental collision damage insurance every time they
    rent a car using the gold card.
    
    D.F

    re .41:
    
    Great.  My wife's Visa card covers up to $3000, and my auto insurance
    covers the whole thing.  However,
    
    	1. The rental companies are now saying that you are liable for
    		full value of the car
    
    	2. Even if you are covered for as much as they want, you still
    		can have you vacation/trip ruined by having to ante
    		up at the time of rental and collect from the payer
    		later.
    
    Burns

    RE-.42
    
    Are you sure your auto insurance covers the whole thing. If ues
    what kind of auto insurance do you have ????
    
    D.F

    RE: .41
    
    	Yippee!
    
    						mike

re Note 327.41 by TWEED::FARHADI:

>     Effective Nov. 1, 1987 Gold card members will automatically be covered
>     by $15000 car rental collision damage insurance every time they
>     rent a car using the gold card.
  
My understanding is that that is exactly opposite of what drivers from
Massachusetts will want.  Massachusetts auto policies transfer the collision
coverage BUT NOT THE COMPREHENSIVE (fire and theft) COVERAGE, to a rental car.
(The theory probably being that while you don't drive your car while renting,
it still needs certain coverage even when it is parked.)

Bob

Even the collision coverage is *only* transferred *if*your*own* car is in the
shop!

/john

    re .43 and .42:  My agent said something like the coverage on the
    rental car is the same as you have on your current car.  I did not
    check into it any further because of points 1 and 2.  I repeat:
    Certainly you won't be wiped out by a rental car destruction if
    you have the various colored cards mentioned above; however, your
    vacation could still be ruined, since the rental car company will
    collect from YOU and it is YOUR responsibility to collect from the
    credit companies.
    
    Burns
    

>your vacation could still be ruined, since the rental car company will collect
>from YOU and it is YOUR responsibility to collect from the credit companies.

Do you know something or are you just talking through your hat?

I have some relevant experience.  Three years ago, in Germany, I was rear-ended.

I drove the car to the nearest AVIS location and had a new car in less than
twenty minutes.  Maybe since I was rear-ended it was obvious that the accident
wasn't my fault, but AVIS had no way (at the time) of knowing that I wasn't
lying, that I hadn't just backed into a wall.  I had no official documents,
since the police in Germany don't even make any sort of official report except
for statistics gathering on an accident involving no injuries.  They fined the
kid DM 50.- on the spot for "driving too fast" and gave him a broom to sweep up
the mess.

I have never heard a single word from AVIS or anyone else about the incident.

Assuming the rental agency thinks the accident is my fault, how are they going
to collect from me?  Charge it to my credit card?  It sure won't ruin my vaca-
tion, 'cuz I won't worry about it until I'm home and get the bill:  "Hello,
AMEX, glad to be insured by you; you can pay that charge on my card, thank you."

How is my vacation ruined?

/john

>	mileage		 6.60
>	2 extra hrs	20.32
>	1st day		30.50
>plus refuel charge

Where does this not agree with the DEC contract?  Are you sure the mileage
charge of 6.60 wasn't the refueling charge?  How many miles did you drive at
what rate?

Under the DEC contract, the U.S. daily rate is $30.50, and you can be charged
for extra hours if you are over 24 hours, 59 minutes when you return.  You pay
for the gas, if you don't buy any yourself, based on the miles driven (at about
10�/mile, depending on location and type of car).  If the car is returned
"locally" (whatever AVIS's definition of "locally" is; e.g. LAX to John Wayne
was local as of last week; Atlanta to Huntsville won't be, next week) there is
no other mileage charge.  If it is not a local return, there is not a "one-way"
charge, but there is an 18�/mile charge, Class B.

I had trouble many, many, years ago with a small AVIS agency in Greenwood, S.C.
Even though they wouldn't give me the DEC rate, on the spot, AVIS changed the
rate to the DEC rate before billing DEC.

/john

re .49 by COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert"  (a response to .35)

>	mileage		 6.60
>	2 extra hrs	20.32
>	1st day		30.50
>plus refuel charge

>Where does this not agree with the DEC contract?  Are you sure the mileage
>charge of 6.60 wasn't the refueling charge?  How many miles did you drive at
>what rate?

	nope, John, the 6.60 was specifically stated as excess mileage. There
	was a separate refule charge too.

"Excess" mileage?  Excess over what?  What group car did you have?  DEC's rate
for Group A cars only includes 100 free miles.

Where did you rent the car and where did you turn it in?

If you think you weren't charged the DEC rate, you really should send a copy
of the contract to Mike Poirier in Corporate Travel Purchasing at ML22-1/T80.

/john

    
    I'm not sure what Group A cars are but. I recently rented a car
    from AVIS which I used for 3 days as personal and 3 days as business.
    The corporate rate I got was $30.50 a day. Unlimited mileage, no
    extra charge for returning at a different place. The extra charge
    for gas was dependant on the amount of gas you had left in the tank.
    I also was told by our secretary that when renting cars business
    or personal you should always decline the insurance.
    
    

re .-1

Where did you rent it?  Where did you return it?

I just rented a car from AVIS in Atlanta, returned it in Huntsville; the DEC
rate for that was $30.50/day plus .18/mile.

/john

Re: .51

You can get an unlimited milage rate on Group A cars *if you ask for it*.

There is also the 100 mile/day free which is cheaper provided you don't
pay for many miles.

jb

re: unlimited mileage rate on Group A cars

I did ask for it.  In the U.S., it is not lower than the unlimited mileage rate
for Group B cars.

/john