[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference 7.286::digital

Title:The Digital way of working
Moderator:QUARK::LIONELON
Created:Fri Feb 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5321
Total number of notes:139771

268.0. "A view from sales.." by DPD01::BEELER () Sun Feb 15 1987 15:28

    I have been carrying a briefcase and price book for Digital for
    the last ten years.  That's right, nose-to-nose selling or ten years
    with no break in between for anything else.  What I'm about to say
    may not have any particular relevance to anything or anybody but
    I have this insane desire to simply speak my piece in response to
    some of the responses I have seen in this "Sales Commissions" NOTE.
    
    I absolutely L-O-V-E selling.  Let me make that perfectly clear
    from the beginning!  In particular, I love  selling DEC hardware,
    software and services - I don't try drugs but if they provide people
    with the same type of "high" that I get by beating the compeition
    with our products, then I can (marginally) understand the adiction.
    Just last week I was in one of my very depressed moods and took
    my "drug" - I went to a customer who had about 100 IBM PCs and sold
    him on the idea of thinwire connecting all of them together, picked
    up a purchase order for a $220K uVAx, and closed a 3 year contract
    for field services.  What that does to raise my level of spirits
    is absolutely .....well..... you know what I mean.
    
    The decision to leave sales is the most difficult decision that
    I have ever made.  It's comparable to getting married, having children,
    and going to war.  I love it that much.  The bottom line is that
    I've GOT TO !!  Believe it or not, CSTVAX::MCLURE, it can be a killer
    of a job.  By "killer" I use that word with all the classical
    definitions - it can literally put you in the grave - the kind of
    grave that is six feet down and very permanent.  Your comment in
    141.11 "..cut right through some of the overpaid and
    stylishly-underworked middlemen and get some REAL $ALES going.."
    was not particularly received by this individual.
    
    I'm well paid (although my salary review is nearly 3 months overdue),
    I love Digital and its products and services, I love selling - so,
    why am I leaving?  That's another story but basically I can no longer
    provide the customer with the level of support that I have in the
    past and that I think is necessary to foster long term business
    relationships.  There's some handwriting on the wall that scares
    the Hell out of me, not the least of which is the topic of this
    NOTE - "Sales Commisions".  I am VERY DEFINITELY A-G-A-I-N-S-T this
    "bonus plan".  In the long run I think that it will be very detrimental
    to Digital.  The minute that a sales person starts thinking about
    his wallet as opposed to the customer, we're (DEC) in S-E-R-I-O-U-S
    trouble.  Believe me, there are enough (too many) sales people who
    (prior to this plan) THOUGHT they were commissioned.  I have some
    fearful doubts as to the real effect of this bonus plan.
    
    CSTVAS::MCLURE, you want my job? Come and get it!!  I'll probably
    (?) stay with DEC but there is little question but that this position
    will be open very soon.
    
    By the way, I appreciate the comments in 141.12 "...sales is a tough
    job that LOOKS very easy from the outside.."
    
    Also, 141.13's joke about the difference between a car salesman
    and a computer sales is in reality no joke, this is one of the things
    that really concerns me about the current DEC sales force.
    
    Jerry Beeler
    
    (maybe I should go into sales training.....?)
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
268.1Hang in there and do what's RIGHTCUJO::VICKERSI found the Colorado powder!Mon Feb 16 1987 20:5542
    I really don't know what else to say.  But that probably won't stop
    me from typing, anyway.
    
    It sounds like you are one of the really good sales people who believe
    in the RIGHT way to sell.  I can appreciate your disgust at the
    comments to which you referenced in .0.  It sounds like they just
    added insult to the injury that you are going through in your job.
    
    Sales LOOKS easy to people that don't see it up close.  I love to
    work hard and usually do but I couldn't take the kind of punishment
    that sales requires.  It takes a special type of person to be a
    PROFESSIONAL sales person.
    
    The problem is that most of us have a stereotypical view of
    NONprofessional sales people.  We tend to view sales people as ripoff
    artists or that ilk.  It's like management - what DO those people
    DO all day to get the big bucks?  It's FAR harder than it appears
    and I believe that most of the negative comments come from being
    unaware of the REAL job.
    
    Being a sales person for Digital can be VERY difficult.  You must
    be a business partner with your customer, know how our products
    fit with their needs, and convince Digital to help the customer.

    Back in the good old days, we used to walk away from bad business
    but that concept seems to have disappeared.  We SEEM to be saying
    that we want EVERY piece of business we can book regardless of the
    fit between the customers' needs and our solutions and/or tools.
    This makes it even tougher on sales people.
    
    We desperately need the good business partner type of sales people
    to be sure that our customers get the solutions they deserve.  Paying
    commissions (whatever you want to CALL them) is going to cause more
    and more of the sell them and leave them type of sales person.
    
    I hope that you'll be able to hang on and help steer this massive
    ship called Digital back onto a more reasonable course relative
    to the way we sell.
    
    Keep the faith,
    
    Don
268.2In retrospect...VLNVAX::DMCLUREI'll try to limit my reply to justTue Feb 17 1987 16:1272
re: .0,

	I appologize for the somewhat callous remark I made back in June.
    If you read the entire note, you will see that the remark wasn't really
    aimed at the hard-working sales force, but instead was an expression
    of my own frustration towards the death of the Sales Training IVIS program
    combined with my excitement with this newly discovered Vaxnotes medium.

	You have to understand that I loved producing those Sales Training
    courses and was extremely proud of them.  Then when nobody bothered to use
    them in the Sales Force, I took it rather personally.  Later it became
    apparent that there was much more to the picture than simply scant IVIS
    usage among the salesforce, but also had alot to do with the IVIS migration
    away from the Pro-350 in general (which ended-up affecting alot of people).

	Despite my seeming lack of compassion, I was once a salesperson myself.
    My background in Sales comes from the comparative low-end of the spectrum.
    I began selling newspapers as a kid, and later spent part of a summer
    selling cookware door-to-door (both of which were almost pure comissioned
    sales and both of which I won sales contests doing them).  I have also had
    many retail jobs in my life, but mostly hourly-wage.  Of all the retail
    jobs I ever had, the only one which I actually consider as being "sales"
    was my job at Radio Shack because of the fact that it paid minimum-wage
    OR (5%) commission (whichever was the higher of the two).  Believe me, I
    didn't stick around there for minimum wage, but instead was setting
    district records selling well into the "(5%) commission" range.

	I happen to believe in this sort of commissioned sales as being a
    good form of incentive to force a salesperson to really sell their product
    line, yet I agree that it has some major drawbacks for the long-term future
    of a company that relies on such high-pressure sales.  Take IBM for example,
    they have traditionally relied on their highly-sophisticated marketing
    and sales techniques to make them the most highly-visible and consequently
    most wide-spread computer vendor in the world.  The problem is however,
    the quality of IBM products has not been able to keep up with their
    marketing hype and sales promises, resulting in somewhat bam-boozled
    customers leaving for other vendors.

	DEC, on the other hand, hardly ever advertises, and until recently,
    offered their salespeople relatively little in terms of a commission.  This
    modest approach is fine if you are limiting your sales to an elite community
    of engineers, but things have changed and now DEC is targeting a much larger
    share of the traditional data-center market, as well as the many other
    computer markets.  The fact is, it's a cruel world out there, and in order
    to face up to that world, you need to be able to either play along (which
    means offering commissions), or you need to introduce new rules into the
    game which allow you to beat the competition in a fair fight.
 
	The fact that I griped about "overpaid and stylishly-underworked
    middlemen" was more of a description of the problems inherent in the
    "real-world" of the sales profession, and (as you and I both fear) is
    more of a prediction of what may be in store for us if we follow in the
    footsteps of commissioned salesforces (IBM for example), than an actual
    description of the pre-existing DEC salesforce.

	My idea was to take advantage of this fabulous noting facility and
    make a world-accessed DECUS notesfile available to assist our customers
    in making their decisions (just as the many internal notesfiles assist
    our salesforce in determining their sales strategies).  I figure that if
    we let them get there hands on a real network, that they'll be instantly
    hooked and will buy lots of VAXes as well as networks to hook them together!
    That's what I meant by real $ales!

	Anyway, to make a long story even longer, I no longer work in Sales
    Training, but have gone onto a career as a Software Engineer in HPS which
    I thoroughly enjoy, and I wish you all the success and happiness in your
    career as well!  :-)

							-davo


    p.s.  I hope you manage to fight-off the grave for a good long while!
268.3Apology accepted..DPD01::BEELERWed Feb 18 1987 12:5914
    Apology accepted.  I can now see your point.
    
    I've also made my decision - I would really like (I think!) to get
    into sales training.  My experience in this business (10 years as
    a customer and 10 [successful] years with DEC) may/should be of
    some value in imparting some of this experience into a very young
    and very inexperienced sales force.  This is in addition to the
    fact that I also love teaching (I taught physics for 4 years while
    I was in graduate school).
    
    Again, apology accepted.
    
    Jerry Beeler
    
268.4Go For It!VLNVAX::DMCLUREI'll try to limit my reply to justWed Feb 18 1987 14:068
	Salse Training is always looking for bright teachers (experience
    in sales is a BIG plus) who can tell it like it is, as well as help
    prevent the sorts of problems we have touched on here.

							-davo


    p.s.  If you ever need any IVIS teaching aids be sure to let me know!
268.5Same course?DPDSAL::BEELERWed Feb 18 1987 14:499
    During DECathalon in Honk Kong in 1985 we took part in an IVIS course
    which "evaluated" sales expertise.  I must admit that I initially
    approached it with a great deal of aprehension but upon completion
    of the disk I was really pleased!!  If that's the course you worked
    on you are to be heartily congratulated - DAMNED GOOD JOB!! I've
    often wondered what happened to it - never saw it after Hong Kong.
    
    	Jerry Beeler
    
268.6VLNVAX::DMCLUREI'll try to limit my reply to justThu Feb 19 1987 12:1228
	You're thinking of the "Decision Point" course which was developed
    in Bedford.  This course was a major production involving literally
    hundreds of people and was quite successful because of it's generic
    non-proprietary quality (it made for a good demo of IVIS capability to
    customers interested in purchasing IVIS systems as well).

	My group (John Smith and Dan Cooper were there) coordinated the Hong
    Kong DECathalon event, but we did not actually produce that particular
    IVIS program.  The courses we produced generally contained more proprietary 
    information geared secifically to the training of the DEC salesforce, and
    as a result, these courses were not typically seen outside of the training
    environment.

	The IVIS courses which were produced by the Sales Training IVIS group
    are listed here:

	1.  Personal Computing: Defining Customer Needs
	2.  Casestudy: Sloane/Wentworth Sale
	3.  The Digital Difference
	4.  Face To Face  (finished, but never released)

	The last three work both as touch-screen or regular.  I could go into
    great detail about how each of these work (being the programmer), as well
    as the learning objectives, etc., but I doubt if such a disscussion would
    really be appropriate for this conference.  Contact me by mail for more
    information,

								-davo