Conference 7.286::digital

I have a radio in my office in LTN.  Security has seen me use it (with
headphones) on a number of occasions and have never said anything.

Do you work in a Manufacturing area or an office?

	- Jerry

    I'm an Information Systems Consultant, I've got my own office, and
    Westminster is a manufacturing plant.  The folks I talked to were
    adamant that none of this was relevant.
    
    -joet 

    I know when I joined Digital 19 years ago [time flies!] radios were
    expressly forbidden.
    
    Wearing a walkman can dull hearing -- of outside noises.  It's illegal
    to drive an automobile in Massachusetts while wearing Walkman-type
    headphones, I'm told.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    Yes, the old employee's handbook used to state that personal radios
    were forbidden. As the company expanded, the policy relaxed, somewhat.
    It is interesting that the security folks cited OSHA policy as the
    justification for this and that would indicate that it is the site
    safety and loss prevention group that is pushing this. If the site
    management policy is to support the safety folks's policy, then
    you would have to elevate to the site manager for exception. It
    is illegal to operate a motor vehicle in Mass while wearing 'dual'
    headphones. The Dept. of the Army and maybe all of DOD installations
    make it illegal to wear headphones while jogging. Something that
    I would support for general application anywhere.
    
    Bob Mc
    

    
    Joe,
    
    I had no problem bringing my Walkman into WMO, and I'm sure the
    security people saw it.   They also saw my boom box when I brought
    that in, and nobody ever said anything.  I also had my Walkman and
    boom box in NRO, and you know how tough it was to get away with
    anything there!   This is the first I've ever heard of anyone being
    denied the use of a walkman, and I've seen MANY people using them.
    (I'm using mine right now as I type this -- but of course it IS 
    lunch time!). 
    
    Don  (wondering how security feels about secretaries using dictating
    machines with headphones)

    I have a radio in my office in LTN as do many people. I used to
    use a walkman, and we have a girl that works here that walks around
    with one on.  I never have had a problem with security and no one
    else here has that I know of.
    
    Renee
    

    I have flamed before (in this conference I think) about the
    capricious-appearing behavior of security.  Several times I have
    been annoyed at policies that appear and disappear.  I'm not pointing
    the finger at security here--but I would personally like to see
    a better way of disseminating policy, if it is policy.  It is
    embarassing (and sometimes inconvenient) to be stopped at a plant
    entrance because (1) certain equipment I could bring in yesterday
    is now illegal, or (2) my visitor/kids that came in yesterday must
    now wait in the car.
    
    The OSHA business is a little tougher: they could be right.  I haven't
    dealt with OSHA for a number of years, but ten years ago I was directly
    involved when school districts suddenly came under OSHA guidelines.
    At that time, OSHA had to follow the rules exactly, and even their
    inspectors admitted that the rules were sometimes silly or dangerous;
    but the law was too strict.  At the time:
    
    -- there were no courtesy inspections: if you called OSHA with a
       question, they were bound to immediately inspect your place
       for violations (on the theory that you were doing something wrong
       if you had to call).
    
    -- the rules were general, with no room for individual application.
       We had a chemical storeroom with shelves one foot apart: OSHA
       insisted that we had to install "safety ledges" six inches high,
       leaving only six inches clearance to remove/replace bottles.
       When it was pointed out that this posed a serious hazard because
       of the problem of removing bottles from the top shelf, they declared
       that the top shelves could no longer be used, and the extra
       chemicals would have to be disposed of (because there was no
       room to store them elsewhere).  The storeroom had no windows;
       however, OSHA had not yet approved any types of explosion-resistant
       light fixtures.  Therefore, all lights in the storeroom had to
       be removed, even though this created a more major safety hazard
       than the explosive gas hazard.

  To Joe T.: Did you have the headphones on when you got stopped by
security? If so, you probably wouldn't have had a problem if you
had brought the Walkman in in a bag and only used it in your office.
  There are two hazards with Walkmen. The first, which was dis-
cussed in earlier replies, is that the combination of the head-
pnones as "ear muffs" and the music being played blocks out outside
sounds. This is a hazard not only when driving, jogging, cycling, or
walking outside, but also when walking in a plant corridor. What
if someone tries to warn you of a hazard such as a wet spot on the
floor and you don't hear him/her. The other hazard is that if you
play the music too loud you can permanently damage your hearing.
OSHA has stringent standards on exposure to noise in the workplace
and these probably apply to noise you inflict on yourself as well.
  In which LTN plant do a lot of people use radios in their offices
without headphones, LTN1 or LTN2? Do people who apply for a job
there (and don't read this notesfile) know up front that they will
have to live with radio music?
  I wrote an earlier note in this notesfile discussing the problem
of radios in offices. I think headphones are a good solution, but
one should take them off when stepping out of the office. By the
way, I'm a non-smoker, but if I had a choice between second-hand
smoke and second-hand music, I'd take the smoke.

This business about walkmans dulling the senses is too much!  One of the 
beauties of a walkman is that if you wear one and keep the music SOFT 
that there is virtually no difference between listening to the music 
through headphones or using loudspeakers.  There just isn't any 
muffling.

At the same time i'll quickly admit they sound much better when you DO 
crank them up.

-mark

    I don't remember anyone stating the radios in LTN were used
    without headphones; I've never noticed anyone playing a radio
    without headphones during working hours.
    
    	- Jerry

    
    Regarding "second-hand music":
    
    Here in WMO, the radio is played throughout the plant over the Public
    Address System,  so there is music (or talk) almost everywhere you
    go.  This is fine on days that the chosen radio station happens
    to be one I like,  but on country-western days, I keep my headphones
    on as much as possible.   
    
    regarding Walkmans (Walkmen?) as safety hazards:
    
    I wouldn't even think of wearing my headphones anywhere other than
    sitting at my desk.  But some people do, and they do pose a safety
    hazard to themselves, and conceivably to others.   As far as OSHA
    worrying about hearing loss,  I could easily stick a pencil in my
    ear and lose my hearing, but they haven't taken my pencils away
    yet!   Also, after playing in unbelievably loud rock bands for 8
    years, my hearing is already damaged,  but since no one ever tested
    my hearing here at DEC,  I could probably sue the company for letting
    me bring my evil Walkman in the door.
    
    Don

Re .0:

It is possible that no such regulation or law actually exists, or that it
exists, but is not intended to be used to harrass you in such a fashion.  I
would recommend that you demand to either see an exact statement of the
law, or at least a proper reference to it, so that you may interpret it for
yourself.  It seems like any Massachusetts public library has a copy of the
Commonwealth's laws, but you'd probably have to visit a large library
(or a law library) to get a hold of the state's regulatory codes, or
federal laws or regulations.

You might also consider getting your management involved via the open-door
policy.
				/AHM

    Hear is your answer to second hand music.  I happen to sit right
    over the wall from the author of response #10 and he doesn't even
    know that I have a radio on.  If you can be curtious about it and
    keep your music to yourself I don't see a problem with having a
    radio.  I'm so used to it now I couldn't work without it.
    
    Renee
    

>    Here in WMO, the radio is played throughout the plant over the Public
>    Address System,  so there is music (or talk) almost everywhere you go.

This is VERY illegal.  Playing an off-air radio station over more than two
speakers in a business establishment is a violation of copyright laws.  WMO
is getting illegal, free use of copyrighted music.  If ASCAP and BMI find
out they will bring suit.  Someone should tell WMO to quit stealing.

/john

    
    I work in the Central Area headquarters office in Arlington Heights,
    Illinois.
    
    I've a walkperson and a ghetto-blaster/boom box in my cube.  Years
     ago, facilities told me that I couldn't have either, and tried
    to site some personel policy.  I told them that if they informed
    the area managers that they had to remove their radio's also, I'd
    be more than happy to take mine home. That's that last anyone has
    ever heard of that!  Many persons have radio's in their cubes.
    
    I don't quite understand the "OSHA" reason for banning walkman's
    (or is it walkmen), and personally I feel if you want to wear one,
    fine.  It *do* find it rude when people *walk around* the office
    with their headphones on their ears.
    
    FWIW:  Several years ago, Chicago alderman passed a law banning
    bicyclists from wearing headphones.  This was brought about when
    one alderman nearly smashed into a bicyclist after the cyclist failed
    to hear the car horn.  I don't know if this law is still intact.
    
    Statewide in IL, the wearing of headphones while operating a 
    car/truck is banned.  There are special allowances for motorcyclists
    with headphones in their helmets (inter-cycle communication and
    CB only)

    I also have injured my hearing as the result of DJ'ing in a club
    for many years.
    
    "jackin the house", Bob
    

    I've never been stopped here (LKG), MKO or at PKO when I was there.
    Maybe someone was trying and I didn't hear them.
    
    I wear them when I'm walking thru the parking lot but I have the
    volume low enough that I can hear conversations, cars, etc.  Actually
    the only problem I had was when I stepped off the curb at the same
    moment a commercial came on with a race car roaring by...in stereo.
    I must have provided a good show to anyone who happened to be watching.
    
    As for use in a car (I don't), I've clearly heard the radios in
    people's cars when they had the windows closed.  Do they have a
    volume control law?
    
    					Mike

I used to be a Software Specialist in NYO, and our cost center manager
GAVE us Walkmans!  The purpose, I believe, was to listen to Sales Update
Tapes.  Evidently, SWS's in other than New York are given cars with 
cassette players in them to be used for this purpose.  So... we were given
Walkmans so we could listen to those updates too.  

I can't attest for how many update tapes have actually been put into those
players, but I don't event think the update tapes have been circulating
yet.  I'm sure some Sales Update tapes have found their way to those players,
but the particualr model we were given has AM/FM too.  What station are
the Sales Updates on?  I can't find it.

No one has qualms about wearing the headphones in their offices, or coming
in the building with them on, that's for sure.  And why should they?
The whole thing sounds pretty silly to me.

Also just about every normal person walking the streets of New York wears a 
Walkman.  You practicly can't live without it.  If you don't wear one you 
have to listen to scummy people proposition you or beg for money.  I wore
one walking through HEAVY street and sidwalk traffic for 7 years and never
had a "Walkman Accident", nor heard of anyone else having one.

As a matter of fact, I used to see a security guy who sits in the dark 
on the third floor of Penn Plaza after hours, waiting for people to sign in...
I think he was listening to WBLS on a Walkman to pass the time!

Do you really think the protesting has to do with some Mass state law?

     RE: .0
     
>    "OSHA State Law"

     OSHA is  a  Federal  Law,  NOT  a  state law!!  This sounds like WMO
     Security made the  story  up  as  they  went  along.    I  can  well
     understand Security's concern about  people  walking  around wearing
     earphones  in  a manufacturing environment.    It  is  easy  to  get
     "forked" by a fork-lift truck as  you  saunter through the hallways.
     However, in the "privacy" of one's office,  a  radio  with earphones
     shouldn't  cause  any problems, and is much less  intrusive  than  a
     desk-top radio or Muzak that others are forced to listen to.
     
     In Massachusetts it is illegal to drive, ride a bicycle, jog or  run
     with earphones  on.    The  reason is to prevent people from getting
     into auto (and  personal  injury)  accidents  due to being unable to
     hear warning signals (horn, siren, etc.)
     
     When I joined DEC,  7  years ago, there was a Formal, Written policy
     in the Personnel Policies &  Procedures Manual which Forbid personal
     radios in ALL facilities.  That  policy  has  been deleted in recent
     years (maybe WMO Security hasn't updated their manuals in the past 5
     or 6 years!) and appears to be a "way of life" at DEC.

    Is it safe to assume that if it isn't in the "Personnel Policies and
    Procedures" manual that it isn't a real rule?  I've never thought about
    the idea of site-specific policies, but this seems like a good time and
    place to ask. 
    
    -joet

There *ARE* site-specific policies.  The corporate policies outlined in
"Personnel Policies and Procedures" apply to everybody, regardless of site.
The management team at any particular site may set up their own additional
rules and regulations concerning how they want to run things, as long as those
policies don't run counter to the corporate ones.

For example, reading somebody else's electronic or interoffice mail will get
you fired at ZKO, even though "Personnel Policies and Procedures" doesn't say
anything about it one way or the other.

It's possible that Westminster has such a policy prohibiting Walkpersons.  I
recall that Colorado manufacturing had a similar rule in force.  It makes
sense in a manufacturing facility--there's danger of being run over by a
fork lift that you didn't hear coming.

--PSW

    Each plant negotiates slightly different INSURANCE policies.  Part
    of that includes the regulations that the plant agrees to enforce,
    such as keeping the pond full to not permitting children under 12yrs
    onto the mfg floor.  Therefore I would not find it unusual that
    there are differing rules on walkmans, loose clothing, or whatever
    could be involved (even remotely) in an industrial injury claim.
    
    	Rick
    	Merrill
    

    I would encourage anyone who is incapable of functioning without
    background music to get a walkman so that the rest of us are not
    held captive to such distractions.  After all, are we here to work,
    or to be entertained? - (said the hypocrite, blithely tiptoeing
    through the NOTEsfiles)
    
              

    CXO is now: 1) a manufactruing facility, 2) an engineering facility,
    and 3) a customer support facility.  The three areas of the facility
    seem to have different rules.
    
    Obviously, no loose anything (like headphones) are allowed in the
    manufacturing facility.
    
    The customer support center has very strict rules about music and
    things over the top of walls and such because its a cusyomer shwoplace.
    They, however, encourage the use of headphones - those attached
    by long cords to your telephone.  This allows hands-free mobility
    while dealing with a customer on the phone.
    
    In engineering cubes here I've seen
    o No radio, etc.
    o Radios on softly
    o Radios (and boom boxes) heard through headphones
    o Walkmen-like devices (I have one in my desk that I listen to when
       working here on weekends)
    o Noise-suppressing headphones.  These seem to be the most useful
       as you still can hear your keyclicks and phone and fire alarms
       and so on, but you don't hear your neighbors or their terminals 
       or their whoop and hollers or their radios.  Working in some real
       quiet is in fact quite pleasurable.  If you have your Silencios
       on, its also an implicit "do not disturb".  I have a set on now
       and it's really neat.
    
    The rules seem to vary (like reserved parking spaces) but my boss
    doesn't mind if I wear a waslthing or the Silencios if they make
    me more productive...and he signs my reviews.
    
    BobW

    SO..........You have lunch at 11:13 in the morning??
    
    J.

    11:13 seems like a fine lunch time to me. Avoid the June rush and
    all. I used to be at my customer site at 6:15AM so I could do
    reboots or whatever before the godless hordes arrived. 12:00 was
    a little past mid-day, plus at 12:00 the cafeteria was a real zoo.
    Especially on the days they were having Future Farmer of America
    seminars. Imagine several busloads of teenagers invading your quiet
    lunch break. Yech.
    
    Jim
    
    P.S. Dinner has a window of 6PM to 1AM at our house.
    

    
    
    J.
    
    the system clock must be off a bit....
    
    you know how it is.
    
    for instance,  right now it's 11:00 on my clock,  but the system
    time seems to disagree with me.
    
    OR,  I may be lying.
    
    heh heh heh
    
    d.

Re the earlier reply by Cookie::Withers: How do the noise suppress-
ing headphones work? Do they have a "white sound" generator? Does
DEC provide them or did you have to buy them on your own?

    I wear headphones occasionally in the office.  I've found that I
    can still hear people talking, moving around, etc.  I can even hear
    the click of the keyboard keys.  I can carry on normal conversations
    with people if I'm listening to classical music.  Naturally, the
    volume setting has something to do with all this, but in general,
    I don't think a walkman creates problems in the office.  I do think
    they're more polite than radios without headphones.
    
    The main reason I don't wear them around is not because they might
    filter out sounds, but because music will distract me if there's
    nothing else going on.  (Let's face it, walking doesn't provide
    a great deal of mental stimulation.)  Same with driving - I might
    not be paying as much attention as I ought.

re:    < Note 244.27 by MORRIS::MORRISON "Bob M. LMO2/O24 296-5357" >
                           -< Silencing headphones >-

    The noise suppressing headphones are the kind that one uses at an
    indoor shooting range or when operating loud equipment like a
    jackhammer.  These are totally passive things...Just big padded
    earcups with a band.  The padded earcups are filled with foam and
    they reduce the "sound pressure".  No electricity...No wires...No
    white noise...nothing mechanical or electrical at all.  The only 
    problem is that of walking down halls, etc.  Also the headphones 
    are not totally soundproof and you hear noises anyway, but very softly.
    They provide about 25 dBA of noise attenuation.
    
    I got my set (manufactured by Silencio under the Gart Brothers name)
    at a local sporting goods store in the guns section.  The cost was
    $12.95.  At such a reasonable cost, I suspect that your manager
    would reimburse a petty cash voucher for you.
    
    BobW
                       

    When I first came to DEC, the Large Systems Group in Marlboro used
    to provide workers with these headphones.  They actually served
    a very good dual purpose: not only did they mask the sound, but
    they also were a polite "do not disturb" sign.  It soon became
    customary to don the headgear whenever you needed an uninterrupted
    work period.  I wish it became popular elsewhere; I haven't seen
    them (or that particular use) since.

    On the subject of hearing protectors, I've seen a pair of what I
    think are called "Sonic Plugs". They look like earplugs (you know,
    the little things that get stuck in your ears) but are hollow and
    have some sort of buffering mechanism inside them. They aren't really
    earplugs, but they DO cut down on high decibel sounds while allowing
    you to hear normal conversation. They are nice because they are
    not immediately obvious like normal headgear.
    
    They used to be available from the Edmund Scientific Company and
    are made by a company called NORTON I believe.
    
    							Warren
    

    When I joined DEC, a coworker said that his former group (a CAD
    group in the mill) and bought them for its employees.  I talked
    our group into doing the same (ESG Engineering in Marlboro).  We
    got them from David Clark Company, Inc. in Worcester.
    
    Burns
    

    
    
    The Norton Sonics really don't serve any purpose except to keep
    out damaging sound levels.   They are made to allow sound to pass
    through at low levels, but reduce sound pressure at high levels.
    
    In other words, I can't imagine they would help anyone ignore
    distracting sounds, since low-level sound passes right through them.
    
    They were useful to me as a drummer in a 110+ decibel raving rock
    band, but would be worthless for keeping out distracting sound
    (conversations, other radios, etc.) in an office environment.
    
    Those little yellow foam earplugs do a pretty good job of shutting
    out sound.

    Don Montgomery

     Norton Sonics  are cute, but damn near worthless!  I have a pair and
     they only reduce  noise  levels  by  6dba!  The foam (cheapie) plugs
     reduce noise levels by ~23-26dba, much better for the job.
        
     BTW: Sonics cost ~$6.00/pair, while the foam plugs cost ~$0.50/pair.
     

    Most airports catering to private pilots sell the foam plugs in
    theor pilot shops.  The E.A.R [brand] Plugs I've found fairly useful, as
    they filter out a lot of cockpit moise while letting speech come
    through rather well.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    E.A.R. [brand] Plugs are also sold at magazine stands in the New
    York City Subway...I wonder why?
    
    BobW

    
    re .36
    
    To protect innocent people from having their hearing damaged by
    the sound of gunshots.    ;-)

    Or the boom-boxes? :-)
    

    	I just wrote down the names of all the people that said they
    have radios in their offices and am sending the list to corporate
    security.
    
    			JUST KIDDING!!!!

    re .39
    
    Fooled you.  I moved.
    
    						Mike