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Conference 7.286::digital

Title:	The Digital way of working

Moderator:	QUARK::LIONELON

Created:	Fri Feb 14 1986
Last Modified:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:	Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:	5321
Total number of notes:	139771

236.0. "Is this for REAL at DEC?" by FRSBEE::COOPER () Sat Dec 13 1986 13:01

	Some time ago I ran into a problem that to this day still is one
	that I cannot believe happen at a company that has such a good
	reputation of employee caring and goodwill as DEC.  The situation 
	was as follows:

	After working for 18 months as my first assignment at Digital, I 
	decided that second shift, and the position I was in, where not the 
	best for myself or DEC.  I whent on interviews around the Company.
	I was offer a position that I believed was challenging and had
	a promising future.  An offer was made (in the form of a US mailed
	letter) to me and accepted the same day over the net on DECmail.  
	Arrangements where made for the timing of the transfer from
	one position to the other.  Approximately three working days 
	before I was to report to the new position,  I was called by my 
	new supervisor and informed that there was an error in the salary.
	The new amount was to be some $2.00 LESS per hour.  I told him I 
	still wanted the position, but this was a point to be worked on,
	for I didn't agree to the position at the second amount but to 
	the first.  I was told that the personnel dept was VERY inflexible 
	about this and they would not budge.  I made a second offer, 
	to at least keep my (at that time) present hourly rate, but 
	that to was rejected.

	    Since I had no experience in this I approached my supervisor.  He
	also said he did no have any experience, but there was a super on the
	floor that did and that I was free to ask his advice.  I showed 
	the second supervisor the first letter and the second letter, the 
	amendment, he stated that if the first letter was within the matrix 
	of the job class that there was very little the company could except 
	honor the first offer.  He also suggested I get my present 
	personnel office involved.

	To speed this note up The following people agreed that in there
	experience the first letter was not void and should be honored.
	One point being that they both where signed by the same employment
	manager.

	3 Supervisors
	1 personal Rep
	1 Personal Manager
	1 Manufacturing Manager
	2 outside Digital professional management people (family members)

	In  a nut shell NO GO.  I was told that since I showed up for work
	on the date in the letter I therefore agreed to the change.
	The issue was being worked by the DEC MM listed above at the date of
	my starting.  Also I was told that I was not eligible for a transfer 
	out of this position for a year.  Also I could not go back to my old job
	either.

	    When I attempted to talk to my NEW personnel rep I was asked,
	"Well haven't you ever made a mistake?"  If there IS anybody
	of some leverage, or if this memo sparks your interest so as
	to inform someone you know that might be able to assist me in clearing
	up this mess,  I would be most appreciative and make for a better
	DEC.  I know that there are those who think "there has to be more
	to it than that".  Ask and you shall receive.


	Lost in the illusion

T.R	Title	User	Personal Name	Date	Lines
236.1	You Have My Sympathy!	DEREP::JONG	Steve Jong/NaC Pubs	`Sat Dec 13 1986 23:23`	4
	This may be of no use to you, but I've been told that job-offer letters are legally binding. My former company acted as if that were so, as well.
236.2	What good does this do?	QUARK::LIONEL	Reality is frequently inaccurate	`Sat Dec 13 1986 23:36`	10
	You have my sympathy as well, but I am of the opinion that it is not proper to discuss such things in notes conferences. Notes should not be a "kangaroo court" where only one side of an argument is presented. (Even if both sides WERE presented, I still don't think it's proper.) You are annoyed, and apparently rightly so, but you don't help your case by airing your gripes in this forum. Steve "The Grouch"
236.3	Where to "talk"	FRSBEE::COOPER		`Sun Dec 14 1986 00:08`	18
	re .2 Steve, Thank you for your time to answer. But I must point out that there were certain pieces of information left out, not to bias an opinion but to keep from having this note from getting too deep over a "public" note. The reason for the initial note was to help me in obtaining insight as to what resourses might be available to me. I KNOW what happen was incorrect on the part of DEC. I just need some guidiance as to how to go about showing those that made this poor decision where the error is, and what should be done to correct it. Also to remove from the system thoses elments that caused this "mistake" to happen. Again thank you for your time. George C.
236.4	Here's a Contact Person	SAFETY::SEGAL	Len Segal	`Sun Dec 14 1986 02:05`	6
	I suggest that you contact Geoff (CELICA::) Sackman about this problem. It sounds like you have a good case and he is a good person (responsible for Personnel Policies & Procedures) to help you win your case. Good Luck
236.5	This is THE place.	RDGE40::KERRELL	with a little bit of top and side	`Mon Dec 15 1986 09:17`	11
	re .2: I disagree, this is just the kind of issue that needs airing. In my short experience in DEC I have already come across many people who have been treated badly and would have benefited from the advice of such a forum. As long as no names are mentioned this is the place to post these issues. Dave.
236.6	Keep a simple story	HUMAN::CONKLIN	Peter Conklin	`Mon Dec 15 1986 22:27`	26
	A transfer falls into one of three possible categories: (a) level transfer. This is the most common. Check your new and old job codes. Ask personnel what "level" each is. If the same, then the normal procedure involves no change of salary at the time of the transfer. (b) promotion. Also fairly common. Typically, the level moves up one or two. Since there is a substantial overlap in the salary ranges, it is common for there to be no change of salary at the time of the transfer. In any case, if you are below the minimum, there is a "requirement" to bring you up to minimum within six months of the transfer. (c) to a lower level. Very rare. This is the only case in which salary would drop. It is so rare, that it could hardly result in a typo. From your description, it seems unlikely that the original intent was case (c). I would suggest that you keep pushing. Best is to work it up through the personnel and line managements in your group. Use DIGITAL's open door policy to appeal this one all the way to a VP if necessary. Just make sure your story is clear. Also, be polite--you will end up working for these people after all! Good luck.
236.7	And ANOTHER piont...	FRSBEE::COOPER		`Tue Dec 16 1986 00:50`	10
	RE: -1 How (or where) would you put a down transfer that goes from second to first shift? That's another problem that come into the question of where you are and where your're going. The plot thickins George C.
236.8	Sounds like the old run around	BAXTA::FOOTER_JOE		`Tue Dec 16 1986 07:58`	5
	A job offer letter is legally binding. I'd go up to the appropriate V.P. and present my case in a forthright manner, if no positive results I'd get a lawyer.
236.9		COVERT::COVERT	John Covert	`Tue Dec 16 1986 08:02`	9
	Ooops... wait a second. The plot thickens... Does your new first shift salary differ from the job offer by more than the shift differential from second shift to first? I can see where the error may have been made. It sucks, but it may have really been an error if the offer was based on your old second shift salary, and the difference is only the loss of the differential to second shift. /john
236.10	verbal offers	TIGEMS::ARNOLD	Are we having fun yet?	`Tue Dec 16 1986 09:04`	15
	re .7 Many times Digital tends to be very informal. Having transferred a few times, I've never gotten a written offer letter. It was agreed to verbally, then when I started the new position, I got an official letter of welcome, here's your salary, here's your position type of letter. In one instance (intent to transfer to DEC Geneva) I got standard verbal offer, which I accepted, then they decided they had a hiring freeze & the position could not be filled, regardless of the fact that I had gotten an offer, albeit verbal, from the hiring manager. Are "verbal contracts" worth only the paper they're written on? Jon
236.11	Expanding on questions	FRSBEE::COOPER		`Wed Dec 17 1986 01:37`	12
	Re .9 The differance was larger than the shift compensation. As I stated to the super of the position I would not even consider the position at the second rate offering. Re -1 I was VERY carfule not to make ANY comitments on the postion until I got the offer in wrighting.