Conference 7.286::digital

    I suppose the posting was okay so long as it was also posted in
    all non-Christian, irreligious, and anti-religious notes conferences
    as well... otherwise, I'd say it was a mistake on the part
    of the hiring manager. I make no judgement of his or her intentions.
    
    grins,
    Marge

    If you (whoever you are) feel that such a posting is wrong, you
    should complain about it in the CHRISTIANS notes file.  I agree
    with you, but I don't read the CHRISTIANS conference, and I don't
    feel that I should butt into it just to complain about one of
    its topics.
        John Sauter

    In my personal opinion, I think that someone's sensibilities in
    this area is finely honed, and may have made an issue of this posting
    unnecessarily.  I'm not saying that it is a bad thing to have finely
    honed sensibilities.  It is a good thing when used positively.
    
    It is (or would be) positive to post copies of the note in question
    to all conferences with other religious or philosophical orientations.
    (I didn't check to see if it was actually done, as implied by a
    reply to the topic in question.)  My appreciation of the good deed
    was diminished upon seeing that it was posted from a bogus username.
    I will not make an issue of whether this violated policy 6.54.
    
    From my frame of mind, I saw the poster of the note apologizing
    a little for posting the note in an employee interest conference,
    and didn't read into it any intent to *exclude* anyone who is not
    Christian from applying for the job, nor even *looking for* Christian
    applicants.
    
    I can see where someone with a different perspective from my own
    might assume different motivations.  Since I'm no mind-reader, I
    can't claim that my interpretation is the correct one.  But I'm
    just saying what I think about this subject.
    
  --Simon
    
    P.S.  The moderator has write-locked that topic in CHRISTIAN.NOTE.
    I believe that is the correct action.  The complaint has been
    registered.  Further discussion on general principles should take
    place here, not there.
    

< Note 220.3 by VMSDEV::SZETO "Simon Szeto" >
\   reply to the topic in question.)  My appreciation of the good deed
\   was diminished upon seeing that it was posted from a bogus username.

Note 253.1                        Job, Anyone?                            1 of 9
FRAN::EEO "Office of Equal Employment Opportunity"   21 lines  10-NOV-1986 20:18
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    We have taken the liberty of posting copies of this job solicitation
    in the following Notes Conferences:

	AFRO_AMERICAN
	BAGELS
	CELTIC
	HUMANISM
	MEN
	WOMANNOTES

    In addition, the moderators of the following restricted access Notes
    Conferences have been instructed to post a copy there as well:

	GDE (Gay Digital Employees)
	PAGAN
	RELIGION

    We trust that there will be no complaints.

    Raoul Duke
    Office of Equal Employment Opportunity

    When you say "bogus username" Simon, what do you mean exactly? 
    Does Mr Duke exist? 
    
    						=maggie

    Is this someone looking for a job, or looking to fill a job?  (When
    I read it first, I thought the former.)
    
    It strikes me as an abuse of privilege by the moderator.  Why not
    just post the job notice to the appropriate notesfile?  (Along with
    qualifications--are we being left to guess that the only qualification
    is to be a reader of the CHRISTIAN notesfile?  :-) )

    
    Re: .5
    
    I believe that R. Duke is the same Duke made (in)famous by the writings
    of Hunter S. Thompson.
    
    Dennis Murphy
    

    The business of someone using a bogus username to reply to the original
    posting is another issue... let's discuss the one posed in .0 here.
    
    There's a hackneyed expression in some women's circles about a job
    req being posted on the mensroom wall... I think it is this sort
    of thing that the anonymous author of .0 is trying to point out...
    
    So far as I know, we have no "affirmative action" program in effect
    to solicit people of one religious philosophy over another... that
    being the case, I believe the posting in the Christian conference
    was a mistake.... I believe DIGITAL officially attends minority
    jobs fairs in order to solciit blacks into the corporation... that
    is legal and sanctioned by the corporation and EEO/AA.
    
    grins,
    Marge

    re .5:  The bogus username I was referring to was FRAN::EEO.  ELF
    does not list any employee named Raoul Duke.
    
    re .6:  The way I read the note in question, it was posted by a
    hiring manager.
    
    The reason why I didn't think that the moderator was wrong in closing
    the discussion was that the digression did not belong in that
    conference.  The subject of EEO and how we might be more sensitive
    about compliance with EEO laws and policies belong in this conference.
    
    "Why not just post the job notice to the appropriate notesfile?"
    Why not indeed?  However, it's not incumbent on the moderator of
    the conference to which the note was posted to find the most
    appropriate file and repost the note.  He (in this case, both
    moderators are male) would be justified to delete the note, if he
    so wishes.
    
    As for qualifications, nothing in the posted note implies that there
    are any other qualifications than the experience needed to do the
    job.  If the hiring manager had overlooked the possibility of posting 
    the note elsewhere, he has thanked the anonymous noter for posting 
    it in more conferences.
    
    I was somewhat astonished to find the note in question generating
    this issue, after I read the note.  On the surface, at least, I
    don't see how it could lead to allegations of discrimination.
    But I concede that I'm not quite as sensitized to EEO concerns as
    the anonymous noter.  While I do not agree with the assessment that
    discrimination is potentially at issue, I can see the point.
    
    What I do fault the anonymous noter for is notes hacking, and
    purporting to be someone with authority to enforce policy.  That
    is, if the person were serious.  Taken in isolation, I would probably
    dismiss the note I quoted in .4 as a joke.  But if the same person
    also wrote to a moderator of this conference to post the topic note,
    then this person must be serious.  In that case, the masquerade
    would not be so innocuous.
    
    Of course, it would be quite possible that a note posted by one
    person in less than seriousness was accepted by another in all
    seriousness, who then acted to bring this issue to this forum.
    The latter individual is not to be faulted for acting responsibly.
    This is the best interpretation I can come up with.
    
  --Simon
    

    Simon, it was meant figuratively... 
    
    m

    Pardon my na�vet�.  Now I know not only that it was figurative,
    but also what it meant.  That was an eye-opener.  It would not have
    occurred to me to discriminate against women like that, but I guess
    you just made me realize a whole new meaning to "old boy network."
    
    On the other hand, this topic has just created a whole new dilemma
    for me.  The majority of my friends are white males.  You mean I
    can't ask my friends to pass the word along about reqs I have to
    fill?  I have real trouble with that concept.  (My open reqs are
    on record and in the Jobs book.)
    
  --Simon
    

    Of course you can ask friends to spread the word, Simon... one
    of my tactics is to ask the departing employee to find candidates
    to fill the job before leaving... I get a very good selection that
    way!
    
    The idea is that you not "wire" the job to a particular class of
    individual.... if it's posted in the JobsFile and JobsBook and possibly
    also in the Cookie::Jobs notes conference or a few DIGITAL sanctioned
    bulletin boards, certainly it's okay to tell whomever you wish about
    the job... which is why I make no judgement of the person who posted
    the note in Christian.  I suspect he or she posted it in all the
    standard spots and was just using this as one more avenue... however
    I would not have posted a job req in WomanNotes, for example, without
    also posting it in MenNotes.  
    
    grins to ya'
    Marge
    

    That's about what I hoped you would say.  I have trouble seeing
    it much differently than that.
    
  --Simon
    

    Theree's nothing wrong with looking for qualified people to fill
    a job.  It just depends on what's meant by "qualified".

    I heard a story somewhere about the Personnel Manager that told
    the extremely conservative boss of the company that there were several
    candidates for the position of vice-president.  "Should I send in
    the best male and best female candidate, or should I send in the
    two most qualified candidates?"

    The boss exploded.  "I've had it up to here with this equal-opportunity
    crap!  Send in the two best-qualified candidates, period!"

    The personnel manager sent in two women.

    Re .4: The only one of the mentionned notes files I'm reading
    frequently is CELTIC (TALLIS::CELT). I've never seen any job posting
    in it (I just made a fast check to confirm). So it seems that even
    the claim of having posted this job in other files is bogus. Or
    has the CELT moderator deleted it? In this case he's done quickly
    as I usually check this file once a day.
    			Denis.

    Denis,
    
    The first reply to that note is not only a forgery, but an out and out
    lie! As the co-moderator of BAGELS, I know that the ad was never posted
    there. Also, to the best of my knowledge the ad could not have been
    posted in the RELIGION conference because it has been write locked for
    several weeks (the moderators of that conference can correct me if I'm
    wrong). 
    
    			Fred

    I think this discussion is getting rather out-of-hand, folks.  If
    there is a bona fide job ad at the bottom of all this, the logical
    place to put it is in the JOBS notes conference (which is a lot
    easier to use than the VTX jobs book, though you can't sort the
    jobs by wage class and things).  I read that conference every day
    or so, looking for a job for my brother, who is blind and has been
    out of work for two years now, on the theory that you never know
    where the lead that pans out might come from.  Other conferences
    aren't real good places for help-wanted ads, unless the ad is for
    someone to develop the software the conference is discussing or
    something.  However, it's up to the moderators.

    It seems to me that the bogus information has been posted.  I do
    not see the two conferences AFRO_AMERICAN and HUMANISM listed in
    the EASYNOTES.LIS.  Also I have a nagging suspicion that there is
    no such conference by name of GDE, albeit since it is claimed that
    it is restricted access conference, I can not be sure.
    
    I follow both WOMANNOTES and MEN regularly.  I do not recollect
    seeing the particular copy there either.
    
    We already have some people saying that the claim this ad has
    been posted in other conferences is quite dubious.
    
- Vikas

The reply "I've also posted this ad in the following conferences" was
signed by one "Raoul Duke".  This is the hero of several of Hunter S.
Thompson's novels, of which "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" is perhaps
the most representative.  I would suspect that the reply is a cynical
criticism of the base note by someone who prefers to remain anonymous (and
is sufficiently knowledgeable to be able to fake a username). 

Some questions still remain:

-- Was the author of the job description following Dec corporate policy
   in posting it to a notesfile that is intended for a particular
   religion.

-- If you are not a Christian, would you feel comfortable interviewing
   for that position?  If the manager asked "where did you hear about
   this job," do you feel that the answer "In the Christian notesfile"
   would give you an advantage?  Is this advantage legitimate according
   to Dec corporate policy?

Martin.

    re the "Raoul Duke" response:
    
    One of the other "restricted conferences" was supposed to be PAGAN.
    I checked with a couple of people whom I know who _are_ Pagans,
    and they've not heard of such a conference.
    
    Apparently, the note was supposed to be ironic.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

It's my opinion that the moderator of Christian should delete the job posting
before DEC gets slapped with a lawsuit.  It is one thing for the event to have
occurred, it's quite another for nothing to be done about it other than all
this mental masturbation that's going on in this note.

I don't feel like telling him to delete it, though.

/john

    What I'm going to say probably belongs in the ETIQUETTE conference
    (for lack of a more appropriate place) but I'll just say it here,
    while we're on this subject.
    
    My personal opinion is that the anonymous noter ("Raoul Duke") lost
    any chance of getting the point across by the manner in which s/he
    chose to raise the issue.  The bogus note came across as being
    dishonest, and any valid point about EEO was totally obscured.
    If "Raoul" truly wanted to raise the consciousness of the hiring
    manager who posted the note, personal mail to that writer would
    have served the purpose quite well.  If "Raoul" wanted to raise
    the consciousness of all the readers of that conference, a reply
    under a real name should get the message across.
    
    If for any reason "Raoul" felt that s/he could not write to the
    author directly or reply under a real name, s/he could have looked
    for an intermediary who would be more disposed to listen to this
    person.
    
    To sum it up, personally speaking, I'm more inclined to give the
    benefit of the doubt to the hiring manager who posted the note and
    the moderator, both of whom I believe to be entirely ethical, than
    to "Raoul," whom I know just from this note.  Perhaps s/he is just
    as ethical aside from this note, but the bogus note was a mistake.

  --Simon
    

How does one post an 'anonymous' note??

     
     What's the subject under discussion here -- the proper place for
     posting employment offerings or writing anonymous notes?
     
     The points that Minow and Covert raise are on the mark: the posting of
     a job in a personal belief-type conference, particularly if it doesn't
     appear in more conventional places (e.g., JOBS.NOTE), could be
     counterproductive to finding a good candidate and could even get DEC
     in hot water.  I don't doubt, as Simon suggests, that the hiring
     manager is ethical; ignorance of EEO concepts, though, can produce the
     same result.  After all, there have been lots of job discrimination
     suits in which successful litigants have argued that the *effect* of
     the hiring practices was discriminatory even if the intent was not.
     Suppose someone who is not a reader of CHRISTIAN.NOTE brings suit down
     the road, claiming to be qualified for the job, and claiming religious
     discrimination against DEC because he/she did not have the same
     opportunity to hear about the job as a reader of that conference --
     regardless of the outcome of the suit, it's foolish to take the risk. 
     
     As for the Raoul Duke note, if anyone thinks it's worthwhile
     discussing anonymous notes, perhaps they should, as was suggested,
     start a new topic about that in ETIQUETTE. 
          
     --Don 
     
     p.s.: I thought Raoul Duke was a sports journalist.

    I have opened topic 79 in HUMAN::ETIQUETTE for the discussion of
    anonymous and bogus notes.
    
    Whether anyone else has thought to do so before, I have now written to
    the hiring manager who posted the note in the Christian conference, and
    to the moderator.  Hopefully I'm being part of the solution of this
    issue.
    
  --Simon

    I am sorry but all along I thought that the posting which said "posted
    in other conferences also" came from the hiring manager (him)herself.
    
    Now I know that it was not. However I would assume that both the
    moderator(s) and the hiring manager were indeed aware of the
    controversy. If so, then the only choice I think they had was to either
    retract the original note or actually post the advertizement in other
    "related" conferences.  It is obvoious that the later has not happened.
    
    If the note has been already set hidden or retracted, then this
    is a non-issue.
    
- Vikas

    To all,
    
    I am the hiring manager who has posted the job on the  Christian
    Conference.  The subject at hand is a very serious matter which
    no one should take it lightly.  I request that any one responding
    to this topic be sure to take time to read the original notes in
    the Chritsian Conference (both .0 and all the subsequent replies) 
    in totality before responding further.
    
    There are several points I would like to make:
    
    	(1) This open req was officially and formally approved on 
            October 9, 1986.   All the steps were taken as according
            to and in conformity with  the Corportate Policies 
    	    by the Personnel Manager of the group to post the job opening
    	    via all the official channels.  The opening was then officially
    	    made available for all employees within Digital to apply.
           
    	(2) As in other situations, it is the hiring manager's
            responsibility to identify and secure the candidates who
            are most qualified for the position, and then proceed to
    	    hire the best candidate into the position.  (The job posting
    	    in the Christian Conference clearly states specific 
    	    qualifications required for the job.  These qualifications
    	    do not include any items or categories which in any way
    	    may violate the letters or the spirit of the EEO statutes.)
                                                  
        (3) After some serious consideration of the matter, I decided
            to post the job opening on the Christian Conference, which
    	    I frequently visit, not for the exclusion of others -- for
    	    the rec has already been made available to all employees
    	    to apply -- but for the purpose of an additional effort
    	    to make it known to many who may not have taken time to
    	    look at the job posting in the Corporate job listings.
    
    	(4) One of the replies to my note in the Christian Conference
            appropriately made me aware of the existence of the JOBS 
            Conference, which to that point  I didn't even know existed.
	    Immidiately I posted the notice to the JOBS Conference as
   	    well, thereby making further effort as the  hiring manager to 
    	    find the best candidate for the position as fast as, and as 
    	    efficiently as possible.
    
    In summary, I am confident that every steps were taken via all the
    offical corporate channels (as according to the Corporate policies)
    by our Personnel Manager to insure that all the EEO requirements
    were met.   Now, as a hiring manager, I am doing my best to get
    that one special person who meets all the stated qualification for
    the job.
    
    Anyone interested?
    
    Best Regards,
    
    Fumio Taku
  

    As a lesson which might be taken from this episode, you might want
    to keep in mind the Biblical quote to (very roughly paraphrased) to
    avoid all appearance of evil. Even if it was not Mr. Taku's intent
    to concentrate his search among members of one religion, the
    appearance of the advertisement in the Christian conference
    certainly gives the IMPRESSION that the author would (other things
    being equal) prefer to give the job to a Christian. (I am not
    ascribing such motives to Mr. Taku.) 
    
    Other things are never really equal, and the appearance of the
    advertisement in one parochial conference and not another definitely
    gives the job opening MORE VISIBILITY to a deliberately restricted
    subset of Digital employees. This certainly looks to me to be an EEO
    violation, even in the absence of bad intentions, since it gives
    followers of one religion a statistically greater chance to learn of
    the opening. I believe the best action for the legal welfare of the
    Company, even at this late date, would be to hide or delete the note
    in the Christian conference.
    
    By the way, when I saw the purported EEO reply to the posting,
    I never took it as anything BUT irony, and certainly didn't expect
    to see any repostings. Why does everybody take things so literally?

   I've been following this topic with some interest. I agree that there are
a number of valid points being brought up. The legal ramifications of this
topic could get pretty sticky.

   Re: .19 GDE does indeed exist. I am one of the moderators. Note this is
not a bogus note and my name is not Raoul. Raoul seems to be somebody's
figment. No such note is cross-posted in GDE. But the author of the note
did some pretty effective wool-pulling. ( I don't condone it, BTW )

   I would agree that the note should be removed from the Christian conference.
This is not a flame and I am not anti-religion. I was raised in a Protestant
demonimination. My best friend from college died of cancer about 3 years ago
and "found God" toward the end. I did not discourage it. Whatever he needed
to get through it was OK by me.

   My concern is the implication that by having the posting in the Christian
notes file infers that extra consideration could be given to a member of the
faith. EEOC lawyers could have a field day with this.

   Although DEC does not include the phrase "Sexual orientation" in its EEOC
statement some companies ( reportedly WANG ) do and numerous municipalities
have enacted laws to that effect. DEC does business in several of these areas.
Prince George's County, MD ( DCO ) has such legislation and a suit was 
successfully brought against an employer ( a trucking company ).

   Non-work related files should be just that. It is a means for persons within 
the company to locate others with similar interests and provide a discussion 
forum that is not limited to geographic boundaries. This is one of the things
that separates DEC from a lot of other companies, an allowance for diversity.

  I'd like to conclude this note by saying that I feel that the entry of the
job note was a mistake due to poor legal judgment. I don't fault the person
who posted the note. There has been no precedent to follow and the author
wished to share what he felt was a good opportunity. The problem arises
from the mechanics. I would hope that in the near future that an official
policy be generated about such occurrences. ( I know, another memo??!!! )
But this is a first occurrence that could easily happen again.

  We don't post such notes in GDE. We'd probably be accused of "Recruitment".
Homosexuals do that. Read your National Enquirer.

Happy noting,
Jim

P.S. One thing implied by the note by Raoul hit me as being inaccurate. By
including GDE with PAGAN and so on, he implied that there are no Christian
Gays. I point out organizations such as Dignity, Integrity, Gay Friends,
Lutherans Concerned, the Metropolitan Community Church and others.

    It is my opinion that the aforementioned note in Cache::Christian
    was a rip of Fumio Taku.  Someone evidently noticed the abnormality
    of the job offer in a single type of notesfile.  I thought it was
    funny myself.  Oh well...
    
      Mikie?

    Come on folks ! You must be kiddin ! So much fuzz about a job posting
    Just a word of "feeling" on this from Europe.
    I haven't seen the content of the posting, but the mere fact of
    having put it in Christian Conference beeing taken as
    "discriminitation" is really exaggeration ! Or are only "Christians"
    allowed to read this conference! If it is true that this could lead
    to legal issues, then we "naive" Europeans would say: "Poor Americans,
    where is your example of freedom that the whole world admires if
    you have to check with a lawyer everytime you do/say something in
    public !" Is actually a DEC conference considered as "public" ?
    In any case I guess that this topic has received a lot more concern
    than it really deserved !
    Bottom line: "He's published it there (amongst other's)- SO WHAT
    ?"
    
    Fred
    

	"Raoul Duke", Your reply was *clearly* irony but some of the
	people I respect seem to take it seriously so I guess that
	the irony in it should have been made more explicit.

	Mr. Taku's, Thank you for your explanation. In my opinion you
    	did the right things:	- First go through the formal channels
				- Then inform friends. 

	Dear reader, Don't tell me YOU do NOT tell your friends about
	this great job you know about ?! If you know you can reach your
	friends through a notesfile, well...

    	So much time seems to be waisted. It would seem only normal that
    	a notes (mail, newspaper) writer _must_ be given a fair chance
    	to explain or correct. The scenario of what _should_ have happened
    	seems clear:
	- "Raoul Duke" get's upset by the offending note. - Fine.
	- It sends a mail to inform Mr Taku.
	- Mr Taku either retracts the note or updates it to indicate
	  how formal procedures were followed. (pointers, time&dates.)
	  He also double checks that the message itself does not 
	  contain unintended possibly discriminating remarks (yeah I
	  know... The media IS the message and at that jazz).
	- If there were intervening replies then instead of updating
	  the base note, an other reply must be made to explain & justify.
	Next time!	

	Regards,
		Hein van den Heuvel, Valbonne.

Btw,	I thought that the "Office of Equal Employment Opportunity"
	was the bogus username Simon indicated. Now I know better!
             

    Incidentally,  whoever that person is who is hiding behind that
    fake name of Raoul Duke, I want you to stand up like a man (or a
    woman, whichever the case may be)!   
    
    It is outright cowardice, cheap, and lack of common courtesy to
    hide behind a fake mask!
    
    With respect to someone's comment on why do some people take these
    things literally, the law *is* always taken very literally.  (In
    fact this whole topic is revolving around whether the legal system
    would accept or reject issues based on written and other clearly
    expressed records.)
    
    As for me, I always take people's comment seriously.  I will not
    impute any wrong or ulterior motives to anyone unless I am 100% certain
    that what is spoken is not from a sincere heart.  I respect others
    (whether they ar Christians or not), and I respect their opinions 
    as expressed from their own sincere desire to do things right.   
    I am not naive, but I believe in God who is willing to believe 
    the best in all of us.
    
    Yes, I do take words very seriously.  The words are the very
    expressions of our hearts as the Word (both written and Jesus Himself)
    is the very expression of God's heart.  I am committed to live by the
    very high standard of God.  I am committed *not* to judge others
    without cause.  Even when I am wronged, I will always forgive and
    forget.
    
    Yes, Mr. Duke, whoever you are, I will forgive you and I will forget
    the comments you made under the covering of the fake name.  BUT, for 
    your own good, I state clearly that you need to come out of the mask of
    hiding.  Unless you do, your conscience will hount you the rest of
    your life.  It will leave a scar in your heart.
    
    As I said, I do not hold any grudge against you, Mr. Duke.  My heart
    is sincerely reaching out to you.  
    
    		- Fumio
                                

    By American standards, it was arguably discrimination, since it
    was an action that caused one specific religious faction (and the
    CHRISTIAN notes file tends to attracts certain sects more than others)
    to have an inside track about finding out about a job.  Mr. Taku
    may not have been aware of the sensitivity of this, and made an
    error in judgement.
    
    I do not believe that Mr. Taku intended to violate the law, or cause
    a stink.  And I believe that the author of "Duke's" comment (any
    Doonesbury readers out there?  yes, that Duke) was being quite obvious
    in his irony.  Getting sanctimonious about that reply is a nice
    way to evade the issue.

    Re -.1
    
    I have never read Doonsbury in my entire life!
    
    Fumio

Why is that note still in CHRISTIAN?  Doesn't the moderator care about the law?

From .0:

"The following advertising practices violate federal and state laws
regarding discrimination:

  1. publication of employment advertising under any column heading
     segregated on the basis of sex, marital status, race, creed, color,
     national origin, ancestry, or age.

  3. Use of language in employment advertisements which might tend to
     persuade, dissuade, or otherwise influence any person or persons
     because of race, creed, ...

Do we have to get security/personnel involved, or can we handle this properly
ourselves?

/john

 >Do we have to get security/personnel involved, or can we handle this properly
 >ourselves?

 >/john

I would suspect the note will eventually disappear from Christian.  Are
we acting properly in trying to handle it ourselves (quietly), or *should*
it be handled by corporate EEO/personnel?

Martin.

    Just too give another European opinion - I disagree somewhat with
    LEROUF::BREICHNER.
    
    Maybe our American friens are too sensitive sometimes, but there
    *is* a law. And, even without a law, I don't think any kind of 
    discrimination is right. Most European countries have a long way
    to go to reach USA in some areas of legislation regarding these
    matters. Open any German newspaper and you see job openings classified
    under 'male' and 'female' - disgusting!
    
    re .-? (Fumio's note):
    
    >Yes, I do take words very seriously.  The words are the very
    >expressions of our hearts as the Word (both written and Jesus Himself)
    >is the very expression of God's heart.  I am committed to live by the
    >very high standard of God.  I am committed *not* to judge others
    >without cause.  Even when I am wronged, I will always forgive and
    >forget.

    Statements like these make me feel a bit uneasy. Now most people
    seem to agree posting the note in Christian wasn't totally correct,
    I don't see any reason to bring in religion here. I, for one, as
    a pagan, would *not* like my words to be compared with anything
    religious, no matter how hard I try to express my heart.
    

    To all,
    
    I have requested that my job posting in the Christian Conference
    be removed.  The moderator has agreed and has now removed it, so
    as to make sure that it would not present any appearance of job
    discrimination.  As I, as well as others, have already stated, it
    is our commitment to make sure that all individuals receive equal
    opportunity in seeking employment, and that there should not be
    any discrimination based upon race, color, nationality, sex or
    religion.
    
    I would like to apologize to any persons who may have been offended
    by the way it was handled.   The position always was, and still is 
    open to any candidate who is professionally qualified to meet its stated
    requirements.
    
    					Sincere,
    
    					Fumio
    
    

    I was mostly concerned about the setting of a precedent of posting
    job offers in "non-official" conferences and where it could lead
    in the long run.
    
    Hope you find somebody good to fill your slot,
    Jim