Conference 7.286::digital

Personnel Policies and Procedures section 5.13 talks about Digital's
"Business Travel Accident Insurance".  It only discusses personal
injury, but since the policy says additional details on the insurance
may be obtained from Benefits Administration in Personnel, it may not tell
the whole story - perhaps there is property loss coverage, too.

If you can't get satisfaction by working within the system at Digital,
you can always talk to a laywer.  What Digital policy covers voluntarily
isn't necessarily the same thing as what you are legally entitled to
(whatever that might be).
				/AHM

    
    Re .0
    
    Be thankful you got the truckdriver to stop.
    
    I had an episode this summer where a truck dropped a piece of junk
    metal on 495, because of traffic conditions I couldn't avoid going
    over it. It took out my transmission and other goodies to the tune
    of $981. Not only did I get stuck with the deductable, but I also
    was informed I was more than 50% at fault, so I have to pay a $100
    surcharge. Main problem I had no witness, as the driver of the truck.
    The rider in my car didn't count.
    I'm going to fight it at the Insurance review board but................

	re .2: The exact same thing happened to me on Route 3 this
	summer, taking both tires and wheels on the right side. But
	they didn't hit me with a surcharge.
	
	Was the truck a flatbed with Quebec plates, by any chance?
	
	Mike

    It  happened to a friend of mine in Britain -- his insurance company 
    decided  that  it was his fault (because he >must< have been driving 
    too close, else he would have had time and manoevring space to avoid 
    the rock). So they cancelled his "no claims bonus"!
                
                /. Ian .\
                

    
    
    re .3
    It was a flatbed, and I thought it was a white non-Mass plate,
    but things happened so fast I couldn't be sure.

	You may be able to deduct your loss on your income tax as a
    business related expense. Years ago Digital's mileage allowance
    was less than that allowed by the IRS. The difference was a legitimate
    deduction. This is sort of the same thing...an unreimbursed business
    expense. Any tax experts out there?

    I doubt it would be a business-related expense.   It is a casualty
    loss.   There is a cap on casualty losses now (I don't remember
    the forumula, but it all but excludes the complete unreimbursed
    loss of anything but a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow by anyone with
    an income over $1. :-)   That is, the deductible portion of any
    casualty loss is that portion of the loss over a percentage of your
    adjusted gross income.   Not very many people qualify any more...)

        I had a similar experience with a rock flying off the bed
        of a flatbed truck and breaking my windshield.  I didn't
        get the truck to stop, but I managed to get the company name,
        truck id number, license plate etc.
        
        Through the Secretary of State's office in the state the
        truck company was in I got the name of the president of the
        company.  I wrote a letter detailing the events with exact
        location, date and time etc., and made the simple statement
        that I expected full reimbursement.
        
        I got a letter asking me to send them 3 written estimates.
        I did and shortly received a check for the lowest of the
        estimates.
      
        Good luck.
        
        mark

My opinion:

	Let your manager handle getting you the reimbursement.  (Don't spend
	*any* of your own time on it.)

	As you mentioned in .0, use AVIS cars for all business travel until
	you are reimbursed.

	Do not give in.

/john

P.S.:  Keep us posted here.  If you aren't reimbursed, maybe a mass refusal to
use anything but rental cars can be organized.

    The last time I checked METpay's rates for our two cars, I fell
    over! I think they should change their name to 'pay-met'.
    
    Outrageous!  8')
    

    The car policy here in Germany states quite clearly that the deductible
    (is that the right word?) is paid by DEC if the car was used for
    business purposes (doesn't matter whether it is your own or a company
    car). On the other hand, if you have an accident with your company
    car on a private trip, it's your problem.
    
    In cases where it's not reimbursed by the employer, you can at least
    deduct it from your income when doing your taxes.
    

    
    You got the truckers info, right?  Go after his company or insurance
    company.  Go directly to his insurance company and you'll probaly
    get the full coverage.  I did.
    

    Thanks for all the encouragement, gang.  I will keep you posted.
    
    As of last week, I have begun using a rental car, even for interplant
    travel. (My manager IS attempting to help, but without a whole lot
    of success. And she DOES support the rental car).
    
    I contacted the other insurance company, today.  They said to send
    them the information, but made no committment on whether they will
    pay.
    
    Re: .9  I will NOT give in.
    
    

    Here is the official written response from my manager about this:
    
    "I had a lengthy discussion on Friday with John Murphy who works
    for Geoff Sackman in Corporate Personnel.  Their job is to know
    DEC corporate policy backwards and forwards.
    
    John said that DEC has never paid the deductible for any damage
    done on business in a personal car and there have been several cases
    besides yours where damage has occurred to personal cars.  DEC has
    not and will not approve any expenditure to reimburse employees
    under these circumstances (regardless of the fact that there was
    no alternative transportation to Salem).
    
    Like the policy used by the government, John said DEC pays $.21
    per mile which is indeed intended to cover all eaxpenses incurred.
    
    I asked him who else we could talk to about this and he said no
    one.
    
    Tom, I would ask your accountant if the deductable could be either
    considered a nonreimbursed business expense or under the casualty
    portion of the tax return."
    
    
    So, there you have it folks. Direct from the top.  If you car gets
    trashed while on company business---tough luck!!
    
    

>    Tom, I would ask your accountant if the deductable could be either
>    considered a nonreimbursed business expense or under the casualty
>    portion of the tax return.

Neither of these will approach the full $500 loss.

So who wants to organize a company-wide boycott of personal car use?  I've
got too much work to do for the next month or two.

/john

Speaking from a purely UK point of view, the amount per mile that UK
employees receive is _not_ sufficent to cover large out of pocket
expenses for repairs or for covering the big increase in insurance
premium if you claim from your insurance. The reason for this is because
the overall cost is averaged out across all expense claimants and the
person involved in an accident is in an exception situation. In other
words all the other people receiving the same milage rate as you and who
haven't (and may never) have accidents are recieving your compensation.
This is a grossly UNFAIR system and this should be pointed out to 
management NOW.

Please take this argument back to management.

The proposal is;

Establish what portion of milage expenses are attributable to large
repairs of this nature and put it into a separate fund for payment
to claimants in your predicament.

Dave.

  
    Let me just point out that $.21 is much more than the marginal cost
    of driving one mile.  It is intended to cover the entire life-cost
    of the car on a per-mile basis (although it is admitted that the
    life-cost/mile is higher than this).  All DEC is saying here is
    that collision damage deductibles are considered to be part of the
    life-cost of the car.
    
    Perhaps not "user-friendly", but I would not call it GROSSLY unfair.
    
    I suspect that a proposal for change would be better accepted if
    it included reducing the per-mile rate, since after all, if DEC
    is to pay for damage incurred while driving for DEC, then said damage
    should not be included in the total life-cost.
    
    Burns

    re .16 and my .17:  Put another way, I claim that the amount per
    mile that DEC pays is not only averaging out the costs of all
    employees, but even more importantly, it is averaging the miles
    you drive for DEC over the entire number of miles you drive.
    
    Burns

    The real problem here, as I read it, is that your insurance didn't
    cover it.  It might perhaps be interesting to see if other insurance
    policies do.
    
    							-Ralph

re .19

I've seen very few insurance companies that pay the deductible.

/john

    Some Info from Europe (France):
    For "occasional travellers" (e.g no company car, no leased car)
    the mileage covers only the "running costs" (eg. gas,oil, tire
    ware....) Your personal car insurance does not cover you. Therefore
    DEC subscribed to an insurance for these travels. So even if you
    are at fault in any accident, you will not suffer from increase
    in rates. The deductible (500 francs) is reimbursed by DEC on
    submittal of an expense claim. What is not covered in any way is
    the temporary loss of your car when in repair (regardless of guilt)
    This happened to me, where my car was in the shop for 2 months!
    Besides that I had not to suffer from any direct financial loss.
    
    Fred
    

Ahhh Gi'day...

    Sorry Burns,  but the life cycle cost of a car wouldn't include getting
    a  rock under it. If the gearbox dropped out of it, then you may have a
    case,  as  it  would probably have bogged out anyway, but accidents are
    really  something that cannot be portioned out in the ratio of business
    to  personal mileage, in the manner that a per mile reimbursement would
    indicate.

    Sounds like a case of doing what is right, until it costs.

    Of course insurance companies don't pay the deductable - if they
    did it wouldn't be a deductable at all, which I suspect was your
    point.
    
    However for someone who uses a personal car for Digital business,
    perhaps a wise way to spend the differential between your cost
    per mile and $.21/mile would be to invest in a policy with
    a lower deductable than you would normally cover yourself with.
    Zero deductable comprehensive coverage is available, and I'm
    fairly certain you can get zero deductable collision.
    
    Brian

Zero deductible is not available in Massachusetts.

I'm about to increase my collision deductible from $300 to $500 -- the
premium is $180 lower.  I risk $20!

/john

    
    If an accident is ruled to be somebody else's fault your deductible
    should be paid in full.  I had an unfortunate encounter with a
    Friendly Ice Cream tractor-trailor, the insurance company found
    the truck driver 100% liable, and they paid 100% of the adjustment.
    

>No Deductible if it's not your fault.

On Comprehensive?

/john

Some thoughts from the frigid north...

Here, all  people who are subject to Digital's car programme - if you drive at
least 6000 km per year on company business - have two options:

	1. The company leases a car for you. This car can be used privately.
	   You pay for all fuel, and for each 10 km driven on company 
	   business, you are paid 150% of the current market price of 1 litre 
	   of petrol.  All other costs are paid
	   by the company, including the deductible if you have an accident
	   while on company business.

	2. You use your own private car. The company pays you (roughly) 
	   $0.39 per mile driven on company business. This reimbursement
	   is intended to cover ALL costs incurred, including insurance
	   and deductibles costs. So, if your car runs perfectly and you
	   never have any accidents, you can actually end up with a
	   small profit. You get this reimbursement even if you are not
	   entitled to a company car.

I think  this  is a very fair policy.  You have the option of using a leased
company  car,  which  will  cost you the fuel only and will not give you any
sleepless  nights.   You  can never make a profit on it, though.  Or you can
use  your own car, which may even give you a profit if it runs well, but has
the  potential  of causing you sleepless nights if it breaks down.  You just
have to decide which alternative fits you.

That's vaguely similar to the field leased car plan here.

But the company can't justify a leased car for people who aren't required by
their job to do customer contact to the tune of at least 3700 miles (6000 km)
per year.

The author of .0 might make a fifty mile trip once a week on the average if
he is a heavy traveller (non-field) for the company -- that's only about
2500 miles per year.

/john

    I drove just over 20,000 Digital miles last year.  I just recently
    bought a car because Plan A (company-leased vehicles) has been
    abolished as a cost-cutting measure by my management. It saves the cost
    center money if employees travel at their OWN expense instead of
    Digital's. 
    
    						Pat

    Your management works for SWR.
    
    An escapee,
    
    Don  (-:
    

There is one very subtle disadvantage to leasing a car in Sweden --
for every year you don't have a chargeable accident, you get a
15% discount on your car insurance premium (road accidents, not
theft).  The maximum (after 5 years) is 75% off.  (If you have
an accident, you drop back two levels.)

As far as I understood, if you dropped the Dec car and bought
your own, the company would put you in the 0% class -- this
might have changed since I lived there, of course.

(By the way: this is a very good way to handle "careful driver"
coverage -- there is no sex or age discrimination: you stay in
a class that depends only on your own accident history.)

Martin.

    
    	re:.0 (kinda)
    
    	Same reason I take a Taxi to, and from, the airport, when I
    travel on company business. DEC wont pay the deductable if my tires/
    stereo/car gets ripped off sitting at the airport parking lot for
    "x" days. So far some grumbles, but the expense report has always
    been signed off. (even though it it costs the company about 45$
    per trip.
    
    	Personally, I think I am doing "the right thing"!
    
    	-John
    
    (It would be cheaper for DEC to assume my comprehensive deductable,
    but so far, bureaucracy has marched on regardless!).... second air
    trip in 2 weeks tomorrow!

    re. 31
    
    I think the reason you get dropped back to 0% is because despite
    what the insurance company may say, you don't get deductions for
    years without accidents, you get deductions for years you've payed
    for insurance without making a claim.  Very similar until you try
    to get insurance on your own, after being covered on someone else's
    policy for several years.
    
                                                August G. Reinig

STING::JELENIEWSKI       update on 210 (they paid)   17 lines  20-JAN-1987 15:06
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is an update on note 210.
    
    Having got nowhere with either DEC or METPAY or the other guy's
    insurance company (Metpay refused to
    pay my deductable),  I filed a "small claim" complaint in District
    Court (Massachusetts). My Lawyer said to file a "Property Damage"
    claim (which by the way, is not limited to the usuall $1500 limit).
    Also this type of complaint may be filed in my own juristiction,
    thereby eliminating the need to travel across the state to go to
    court.
    
    To make a long story short, the other insurance company paid the
    entire claim of $1079 prior to going to court (after they at first
    tried to get me to take a "low-ball" offer.
    
    I guess it pays to be persistant.

    This looks like the appropriate note for this.
    
    I recently bought a car and financed some of the payment through a
    bank. I added the car to my coverage with METPAY, got the binder etc.
    The car's registered and inspected so I'm all set, right? A day ago
    I got a letter from the bank saying that my insurance had been
    cancelled and that one of the terms of the loan is that I have
    insurance. Now I know I didn't initiate this so I took the letter to my
    local METPAY agent and he calls up and says, yup, that vehicle has
    been deleted from your coverage. They don't know why or how. He said
    that they went to a new computer system a couple of weeks ago and that
    it probably just "fell out" of my coverage. He said he would add it
    back to my coverage. 
    
    The point I'm making here is that if the bank hadn't contacted me, I
    wouldn't have known that I wasn't covered. 
    
    You may want to check with METPAY to make sure your coverage is still
    intact.
    
    Side note: As we're sitting there waiting to find out what happened to
    the vehicle's coverage, the METPAY-droid asks me if I have my
    homeowner's with METPAY because they're really a lot cheaper than most
    companies. I said that considering why I had to visit him that day, I
    didn't have much confidence in METPAY. He didn't reply.
    
    If it weren't for the convenience of payroll deduction...

    METPAY lost my coverage on one of my cars as well.  No one knew
    why.  Metpay does not insure anything for me any longer.
    
    

>    METPAY lost my coverage on one of my cars as well.  No one knew
>    why.  Metpay does not insure anything for me any longer.


A questions:  If I have coverage and have been sent all of the appropriate
paperwork (copy of policy, etc.) then Metpay 'loses' it or inadvertently
cancels the policy, would not they be liable for any claimed damages since
they are required by law to inform me prior to any cancellation?

Betty    
    

    RE: Lost cars
    
    Metpay sends me a statement of my cars at least every 6 months,
    probably more often because I change something  (towing, change
    deductibles, etc)  I've been with them for  7 years now, and they've
    not screwed up once.  (I've even had quite favorable responses when
    filing a vandalism claim)
    
    
    RE: homeowners
    
    I'd check it out.  Aside from the WONDERFUL weekly deduction benefit,
    they also offer a 25% discount to DEC employees.  (yes, that's right,
    25%)  That allowed me to drop the cost of my homeowners (2 family,
    Newton, replacement value house, replacement cost contents) from $1339
    to $844 (the old one didn't have replacement cost on the contents
    either)
    
    
    They did screw one thing up on the homeowners, they didn't send a copy
    of my wife's ring appraisal to Metropolitan (I did take it to the
    office that day) and the home office sent me a letter asking for 
    a copy. 
    
    
    Oh, yea.  Since I have a $1M umbrella policy (pretty much a required
    thing if you own rental property) Metpay has different car insurance
    limits IF you have the umbrella with them.  That saved me an increase
    of $70/car if I had raised the limits to what my old insurance company
    had told me I had to.  
    
    
    -bill
    
    Who's been very happy with Met for 7 years

If they accidentally drop your coverage, won't your weekly payroll deduction
change, alerting you that some change to your coverage has occurred?

- tom]

    RE: .39 The weekly deduction may very well change but not everyone
    reads every line of their check. I know that I generally only look
    at a few things (vacation time is the main one). I don't
    verify my deductions every week. I also don't look at them close
    enough to know if they change by a small amount. Though I might 
    notice if one disappeared all together. Generally I assume that
    things don't change with out warning.

    			Alfred

    re: .40
    
    I would assume that one of the things you look at is NET PAY?  If
    that changes from week to week, I would certainly go look at my
    deductions to find out who was in the cookie jar!  :-}
    
    Dick.

    RE: .41 You assume incorrectly. More then any other item I assume
    that I will be warned in the case of a change to net pay.
    
    			Alfred

Perhaps my only gripe about Metpay is that it takes at least six weeks for
policy changes to be reflected in payroll withholding.  Therefore, if they
accidently dropped coverage on one car, you really would not see the change
for some time.

Most insurance companies (I hesitate to say all but all I've used fit here)
seem structured to make errors.  Underpaid employees, that often seem under-
educated, handle complex forms and claims.  That Metpay makes errors doesn't
surprise me.  The measure of the business is how quickly the correction(s) are
effected.

I would be very surprised if, Metpay having accidently dropped coverage for
a car, that a claim would be denied.  I seriously doubt that the State would
let that happen.  But then I'm not an insurance expert.

Now that we have the 9000 series announced, perhaps we can convince Metropolitan
to convert to VAXen and speed up the paperwork.

    re: .39
    
    The change in my METPAY deduction occurred the same week I got the
    letter from the bank - but I got the letter on Wednesday and the
    pay stub on Thursday. I pay VERY CLOSE attention to every deduction
    item every week so I would have noticed it anyway.
    
    All things considered, I don't have any real problems with METPAY.
    I've been with them for about 7 years with no real problem. I was
    just trying to alert others that they may want to check their
    coverage in case what happened to me happened to them as well.
    
    As far as homeowner's coverage, check the CONSUMER notesfile about
    the differences others have noticed.
    
    
    

re:
    
>If they accidentally drop your coverage, won't your weekly payroll deduction
>change, alerting you that some change to your coverage has occurred?
    
    Who looks at their paystub each week? I don't even bother opening mine.
    I occasionally open it to find out if I'm hitting up against the
    vacation ceiling. Come tax time I pull out the 40 odd unopened pay
    slips and the 10 odd opened ones, open them sort them and then verify
    everything.
    
    Dave

Don't forget there are an awful lot of employees in the field who don't see
the office, let alone their paycheck, for months at a time.

Bob

    Now come on lets get serious. Do you always get up in the morning?
    
    Some people have busy schedules and if your out of the US for extended
    periods of time. WHo pays the bills?
    mike
    

re: .47

Which reply is .47 directed at?

Bob

    
    A lot of people (I'm one) don't ever see a paycheck because they
    have their pay deposited directly into a bank account.  The only
    reason I pick up my "bluething" is because the secretary doesn't 
    appreciate it when I let them accumulate to greater than 5.  And
    picking it up doesn't mean I open it to see what's in there.
                        
    CQ

    RE: Previous notes ...
    
    For those who get up in the morning and drive to "the office" I can
    appreciate a lack of understanding for those who might not do this for
    days, weeks, or even months at a time. However, there really is a group
    of employees who indeed may NOT see their managers, any peers, any
    other Digital employees, or even visit a Digital office for days,
    weeks, and perhaps even months at a time.
    
    One such group are our software services people who are assigned to
    accounts as "residents" or those who are on long projects. These folks
    report to a customer's place of business each work day. Although they
    may see other Digital people if they are on a large project or in an
    urban area, bear in mind that a lot of these folks are on not-so-large
    projects in more rural areas. They see NOBODY!
    
    Day after day, they go to the customer site and do their job. They have
    no access to NOTES, their mail, and other things that you and I may be
    able to do all day at work. (There is no network connection from the
    customer's systems to ours.) These are things that the employee needs
    to do at night from home (assuming, of course that their managers will
    spring for a VT100 and DF03 for them to bring home). They don't get DTW
    (Digital This Week). They don't have access to the wealth of Digital
    products that we do in a DEC facility (only to what the cusotmer
    bought). And, they don't have anybody to discuss their problems with
    (face-to-face) that works for the same company that they do.
    
    I've got to believe that this is a rather difficult assignment, at
    best. I've got to believe that one starts to lose his/her identity with
    the company that employs them. I've got to believe that after a while,
    it's bound to be downright depressing, even for the most enthusiastic
    and energetic person.
    
    So, for those who think that not going to the office for weeks to pick
    up your paycheck is a "bit odd", allow me to put forth the hypothesis
    that this is reality for some of our employees. Now that you know this,
    go forth in peace with a greater understanding of your fellow DECcie.
    
    To those who are among the missing at customer sites for weeks on end:
    Forgive those who don't understand you, for they know not whereof you work.
    
    ... and keep up the good work
    
    
    /se
    
    
    
    
    
    

    re.  .50
    
    	VERY well said!  Should be required reading for some.
    
    -Barry-
    

    thank you, thank you, ..........................................
    
    - From a ten year veteran of that part of our business (it's called
    PSS) who bought his own fire sale PDTs and ROBINs for many years before
    ol' KO got around to loaning me a terminal.  Just returned from a
    course at BUO last week and had the opportunity to talk to some folks
    in engineering and manufacturing.  I've done it before and get sick
    every time.  Talk about second-hand cousins!  And we are supposed to be
    knowledgeable about our products - no, I'll take that back - the
    only criteria is that we bring in the bucks that affect the local
    bottom line - NOW! 
    
    Right now I feel like I am in heaven with a borrowed-for-the-weekend
    VAXstation 3100. 
    
    For some years now I have been trying to get DEC to pay $30/month
    for a second line into the house (I've offered to pay the installation)
    because I use this one so much for company business; especially so
    since I have someone seriously ill at home right now.  Gotta PROVE how
    it will net out our normal profit margin ($45?) first!  Guess it has
    something to do with the "crack in the door" syndrome too.  Never
    want to be a manager and have to make decisions like that.
    
    Thanks, but no thanks anyway.  If DEC cannot afford it, neither can I
    anymore.  Don't misunderstand, it's a great company with some great
    leaders.  I am going to take a day of vacation tomorrow starting at 4AM
    to drive 200 miles to hear my leader #1 at the stockholder's meeting
    to make sure my stocks will be worth something again (they will).

    See y'all there, Fred
    
    Fred 
    

Others are in a better position to react to .50 that I  am, though
I can accept the situation as described at face value.
Let me say, however, that there's no excuse for the entirety
of the isolation described.  I, for one, would insist that my pay stubs
be mailed to my home address if my business were to be regularly
out of the office.  Recall that this rathole came up about peoples'
needs to check their deductions (if they choose to - those of you who
willingly ignore their paystubs and trust their monthly bank statements
can continue to do so as you wish - I have, at times, been one of you).
If you need a business justification for your group spending 50� a week
on you, just point out the cost of 1 hour of customer billable time lost
while tracking down a pay problem six weeks after it occurred, even no 
more often than once a year.

- tom powers]

re: .54

In some offices there is no such thing as 1 hour of billable time lost.  You
put your 40+ at the customer site and anything else is on your own time.

In some areas, unit managers must forecast their employees hours a quarter
ahead and on a weekly basis, participate in a conference call with their
DM, sometimes AM, and others, and must explain EVERY variation from the
forecast.

Bob

    Those who sign blanket authorizations allowing certain organizations
    to withdraw money from their pay, and then do not bother to check
    their paystubs or "bluethings" (love it!) regularly to assure that
    said blanket authorizations are not draining their resources have
    no one to complain to but themselves, IMO.  It's up to you to watch
    out for yourselves, not complain when someone else doesn't do it
    for you!
    
    :-)

    re: .50
    
    I'm one of those field body's who pickup the stubs on a irregular
    schedule.  Been do'in it for 3+ of my 5.5 years at DEC.  Used to 
    be that when I was a customer with a DECie onsite, the company 
    Fed-Ex'd the checks and stubs to the employees weekly from 
    Maynard.   Now our substitute is the DCU 800 number to 
    check our balances, (an hopefully we still have money left :-} )
    
    I like the direct deposit to DCU because it happens on wednesday.
    Then, since I live on the west coast, I can write checks on Monday
    and DCU has the money when they clear on Wed and Thursday.  
    The only suprises I get are the changes in the Stock Plan 
    supplemental contribution and the doubling of Life Insurance
    when I hit 35 (That one I caught me by suprise :-{ ).