Conference 7.286::digital

    An interesting perspective, and with some validity.  A great aunt
    of mine was questioned by the police about 30 years ago because
    a car that was used in a robbery had a magazine with one of her
    mailing labels on it (she subscribed).  It transpired it was a magazine
    she was through with that she gave to a friend who, when through
    with it had left it in a public place (park?  commuter train?  I
    don't remember), where it had been picked up by someone nwho was
    either involved in the robbery or was in the car that was used in
    the robbery.
    
    Don't see how I could agree with it, though.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    I have seen people taking empty cartons out of MKO1 with all the
    DEC logos scraped off (this probably weakens the carton some, but
    probably not too much :-).

    Get a property removal pass for manuals or cables or something and
    then take them out in a box!
    
    Burns
    

    
    hasn't been a problem at stow.

Damn, I guess I shouldn't have left those Digital Holiday Turkey boxes full
of herbicides and old capacitors out in the woods behind MR1.
				/AHM

        No problem here in BUO, either.  I took 12-18 boxes with
        the Digital logo home in the last few weeks (we just moved,
        what fun).
        
Jim Stratton
        

    I moved while I was at PKO, and I had no problem hauling boxes
    of any sort out the door. The "worst" obstacle in doing so was
    that an occasional guard asked for a cursory check of the boxes
    to make sure they were empty.
    
    One other time, though, I was taking home some heavy metal mesh
    (the kind that can be found on the underside of a VT52) that I
    found in a dumpster. For that, I needed a pass signed by the
    site manager.
    
    --- jerry

    It was that way in CXO too.   Furthermore, you couldn't take the
    wonderful styrofoam peanuts for packing material either.

    
    I've had no problem in Marlboro either, when anyone here needs a
    box, they go to the shipping dept. and get them there. The dumpster
    is right by the shipping dept.
                                      
    Ray

    re .o
    
    
    I use them all the time. And I let my people take them out.
    
    As long as they are empty, and are't new boxes that weren't used
    yet, the guards let them go without a removal pass.    
    
    Sounds like an over zealous guard, or a plant with some
    rediculous ideas.
    
    
    
    (my humble opinion)

    I often took boxes home from Bedford, with and without DEC logos.
    These boxes ranged in size from shoebox to 11/70 size.  (I used
    two big ones to make a play house for my kids in the basement.)
    
    Whether or not I could get out the door, and what signatures I needed,
    depended upon what guard was on duty and how he/she was feeling
    that day.  It had NOTHING to do with the size of the box or logo.
    
    I was so puzzled [annoyed] with this shifting policy that I asked
    to see the regs.  I never got a reply.

It pains me to hear security blamed for the various policies of
diffferent plants. <sigh> As a general rule, security does not
make policy...they only enforce the policy. In the event they 
don't do their job...they get reprimanded, as I'm sure that if
you don't do your job, you get the same type of treatment.

Anyhow, back to the removal of boxes with a Digital logo...

Removal of the boxes is not corporate policy. It is up to each
individual plant or site to set up their own policy. I can't speak
for other plants but I can explain how and why it is done at ABO.
<Albuquerque, NM manufacturing site>

All boxes with the Digital logo and all packing materials must be
accompanied with a property removal pass which is authorized by
one of three people allowed to make such authorization. 

Why? It is not because of bombs or toxic waste or any other such
rot. It is simply because much of the material people veiw as used,
<and well it might be>, can be re-used. In other words, it really 
isn't ready for the dumpster yet folks and we can recycle some of
it thus saving Digital untold thousands of dollars. And of course
here are always a few, <mind you, I said a few>, unscrupulous folks
who would otherwise ake advantage of a plant that had no policy.
i.e. Goes back to the bins, gets a new cut box, folds it together
properly, slaps a little tape on it, and goes by security saying
that it is a "used" box.

I agree that many times when we see something being thrown into
the trash seems like it should be OK to take it on home for private
use, but if some areas dictate that you need a pass, then what's the
big deal? Get a pass...that way everybody is happy.

                                 Janet Bader
                                 DEC/ABO Security

    Being an inveterate trash picker who practically cried the day the
    town of Acton closed down its swap pile in favor of the transfer
    station, it never ceases to amaze me when people are cleaning out
    their files and dump perfectly good three ring binders in the trash
    rather than dumping the contents and reusing the binders.
    
    I have a complete set of VMS documentation that someone threw out,
    binders and all, simply because it was version 3. 

    	I moved my home back in June of this year.  To save money we
    packed ourselves, and to save more money I scrounged up as many
    cartons as I could.  Fortunately, that time coincided with the
    distribution of VMS V4.4 documentation kits, and a mail message
    to my cost center produced about 20 cartons.  I carted all those
    empty boxes out the door here at LTN without any question.
    
    	Any boxes which were marked as trash were crushed and thrown
    away.  I felt that I did my little bit for ecology in reusing some
    of them.
    
    		David

    In the UK a pile of empty boxes surrounding a desk is a true indication
    that the person is moving house.
    
    dcb
    

    Well, I was in a lobby when a guard stopped someone from taking
    out boxes with the Digital logo.  He explained that the reason was
    that ultimately the boxes might be left in somebody's yard and
    then blown around by the wind and then Digital would be blamed
    for littering the environment.
    
    

    Whenever I need boxes I take empty paper boxes out of the computer
    room.  They don't have Digital logos on them, just Moore logos.
    They the perfect size, and they are all uniform.
    
                                        August G. Reinig

    Even better are the boxes that the Xerox paper comes in.   They
    have lids.

	Being in the field, we don't the "guards" hassling us, but lately 
people are becoming more protective of the nice Micro-VAX, PRO, Rainbow, etc. 
packing cases, since they can be readily re-used for moving the gear around 
from demo to demo. I agree with the Xerox paper comment, except that the ones 
we get are a little small.

	I will make a claim to doing the most unusal thing with DEC packing 
materials! About 4 1/2 years ago, a DEC-20 was delivered to Atlanta in foam 
lined, framed fiberboad, packing. After we had unbolted everything, I gathered 
up all the hardware (about 10 pounds worth!), borrowed a station wagon, and 
carted it all home.

	Part of it is now an HO train board, part of it shelving in the
garage, and the bolts and lag screws are in various parts of the house. 

	And there's more left!

    
.17>    They don't have Digital logos on them, just Moore logos.

    And now Moore gets the blame for litering!!  ;-}
    
    Maybe we should buy a whole mess of IBM boxes.  Sure could start
    a nice smear campaign! 8-)
    

    Re: -.1 and others
    
    Quite. By the same logic as that used by guards quoted here, I could
    go down to the local supermarket, take a few boxes, fill them with
    chemicals/bombs/etc and get Robinsons/Safeways/Kelloggs/etc blamed
    for it all... If someone is going to give a reason for some action
    not being allowed, they could at least have the decency to be serious
    about it! :-)
    
    Gavin

    You'll notice that the boxes at the supermarket are mutilated (tops
    cut off) to "void" any implication that they are "original."
    
    The same is done for liquor boxes and bottles (& revenue seals).
    
    ... carve out the DIGITAL logo?
    
    

>    You'll notice that the boxes at the supermarket are mutilated (tops
>    cut off) to "void" any implication that they are "original."

The tops are cut off as this is the fastest way to open the box - using a
knife.  This not done because of something silly such as planting bombs in
boxes. 

Also, most large supermarkets are recycling their cardboard boxes.

Bombs in box?  You people think up the craziest things.

cbs

    re: .23  -  ever hear of "tamper protection" for Tylenol bottles?
    
    		- ever get a bottle of dish-washer soap that had been
    		slit JUST enought to let it leak when bent?
    
    		- ever get a box because things in bags tend to fall
    		over in the car?
    
    		- you say you've seen a stock boy open one of those
    		wooden produce crates with a knife?  Really?
    
    RMM
    

>Also, most large supermarkets are recycling their cardboard boxes.

	Don't you mean corrugated board boxes, cardboard is a bit weak.

Dave.

re. 24
> ever hear of "tamper protection" for Tylenol bottles?
I'd sooner worry about bombs in my VMS V4.4 doc set than rat poison in a VT240, 
not to mention trying to eat it.  Our products are not sold in a supermarket 
to the public.  They are sold to educated users either directly or reputable 
vendors. 
    
> ever get a bottle of dish-washer soap that had been
> slit JUST enought to let it leak when bent?
Yup, must have been one of those stock boys with their knives.  I hope there
wasn't have any Tylenol in there.  :-)
    
> ever get a box because things in bags tend to fall over in the car?
No, but I've used plenty of liquor boxes when moving.  Seagrams never 
complained.  Why should DEC?
    
> you say you've seen a stock boy open one of those
> wooden produce crates with a knife?  Really?
I never said that.  Maybe you've taking too much Tylenol. :-)

We do live in a world with crazies who shoot people in McDonalds and poison
others with cyanide.  I'll still eat fast food, take pain killers, and use
V4.4 doc boxes to move.  And read notes written by fellow employees with 
hyper-active imaginations.  [ Many, many :-) ]

cbs

re Cardboard vs Corrugated Board

Yes, that's what's being talked about here, though in the U.S. vernacular
only the term Cardboard is usually used.

Thanks for providing one of those rare cases where British English is more
specific than American English (assuming that the man on the street in England
is as specific as you).

/john

    
    
    By the way, if you ever need something to pack all those records
    (phono) in next time you relocate, go to your neighborhood record
    store.  They have all those perfectly sized cartons that the records
    are bulk shipped in.

RE: .29, .30

    I have deleted the entry.  The particular message appeared in USENET
    misc.headlines group.  This is an unmoderated group and I believe many
    people world-wide read it.  The original message originated from a
    person working for big phone company research lab in RMAS, Columbus
    (who knows I might get into trouble if I were to tell you the
    initals of the organization :-(
        
    It has been pointed out to me that the message could get us into
    legal trouble.  It is certainly regrettable turn of events where
    a message which could appear in a medium where thousands of people
    working for multitude organizations have access to, could not be
    reposted in this conference which is supposed to be for Internal
    Use Only.
    
- Vikas