Conference 7.286::digital

    From the cluster here neither LSTARK, nor the number you gave are
    reachable.

re. 0,

>        All  messages  will  be  kept  confidential  and   no   direct

>        examples/stories  will  be included in my paper with out prior

>        approval.

    
	Confidential?  What's that?  I seem to remember that word from the
    past somewhere...Why use mail?  We're all living in one big glass house
    anyway.  Mail is for introverts.  Notes provide extroverts a mechanism
    of acheiving justice in a world previously controled by conniving
    "Midnight-Memos" which are only primarily used for back-stabbing and
    other misrepresentations.

	I say conduct the study within a notesfile.  How else are you going
    to get the full flavor of the noting phenomenon?  As far as which note
    conference to use, well, I don't know...what do you think Simon?

						-DAV0

    I would certainly hope that Alfred will make his final product
    available to the noting public.
    
    I suspect that this is not the right place for the extroverts and
    their ilk to express how much better their sex life has been since
    getting on the E-net.
    
    It might be a decent topic in the Notes SIG conference or some other
    conference.
    
    It's difficult to come up with a solid number but I suspect that
    there are several times more 'reading' noters than 'writing' noters.
    Analytics have a real fear of EVER making a misteak and tend to
    write less than fools like us.
    
    Don

             Just read an article in yesterday's paper about two
         employees of Compuserve who began "dating" over the network
         and were married ON the network at their company's corporate
         headquarters!!  I for one would be extremely curious to know
         how many people in Digital frequent the conferences (both
         work and non-work conferences) and how personal lives are
         being affected.
    
             As a fairly new NOTE'r (and mostly *reader* of NOTES,
         still), I find it incredible that many people within DEC
         don't even know about all this (much less people outside of
         DEC.)  We have the biggest and best Network, don't we?? And
         also the most secret??
    
             How about a little roof-top shouting -- I think we have
         a lot to be proud of to have NOTES (and that the corporation
         is giving us this opportunity to communicate about such a
         wide variety of work and non-work subjects!)
    
                                                      Suzanne...
                                                    (new NOTES addict...)

re. -1,

>             Just read an article in yesterday's paper about two
>         employees of Compuserve who began "dating" over the network
>         and were married ON the network at their company's corporate
>         headquarters!!  I for one would be extremely curious to know

	You must be refering to Louise Broussard and Mark Tracy who
    met and married on Compuserve's "CB-Simulator" (TM).  I guess they
    were the third couple in three years to do this.  What's even more
    interesting is the fact that Tracy is deaf.  If you would like to
    send them a wedding present, they are registered in the Compuserve
    "Electronic-Mall" (TM) shopping service.
    
>             As a fairly new NOTE'r (and mostly *reader* of NOTES,
>         still), I find it incredible that many people within DEC
>         don't even know about all this (much less people outside of
>         DEC.)  We have the biggest and best Network, don't we?? And
>         also the most secret??

	This really bothers me too.  The fact that DEC does so little
    advertising that the rest of the world doesn't even know about Vaxnotes
    yet (not to mention the rest of our products), in fact, most DEC employees
    don't even know about Vaxnotes yet - which is really unfortunate.
    How can we expect to meet our corporate goals of selling our network
    to the world now (Digital has it now) if we don't have some sort of
    DECUS-styled network made available to the public which would carry
    it's own (non-work-related) Vaxnotes utility?

	Without such a facility, our network and it's utilities are like
    a Genie still trapped inside it's bottle.  If anyone has any ideas
    on how to implement such a service, please add them to the existing
    note "An Independant Noting Network" (Ed Bernstein's revelation) in
    this conference.  I'm afraid that if we don't hurry-up and do something
    to market our network (i.e. via Vaxnotes), that some other vendor is
    going to "steal our thunder".  I'll even volenteer to lead the effort
    if someone will sponsor me!

	And now, we return to our regularly scheduled program...

						-DAV0

re: .3,
    
>    I suspect that this is not the right place for the extroverts and
>    their ilk to express how much better their sex life has been since
>    getting on the E-net.

	Personally, my sex-life hasn't improved much since I've been Noting;
    my wife doesn't work at DEC, so the more time I spend on the terminal,
    the less time I spend with her.  What has improved, is my outlook on
    life and my sense of finally belonging to some kind of a community.

	If that's enough to qualify as extroverted, then I guess I am,
    although true extroverts would probably be frustrated with so much text
    and so little eye-contact, which only Video-Conferencing can hope to
    satisfy fully.  In the meantime, these folks will continue to stand
    around shooting the proverbial sh*t while folks like us are busy typing
    away.  I will admit to a slight feeling of boredom in a purely textual
    environment, but I figure it's a small price to pay until we do figure
    out how to add some of the newer technologies.

	I get a real charge being able to subscribe to this medium (i.e.
    Vaxnotes) as though it were a Daily publication.  I figure I watch
    fewer boring T.V. shows now that Vaxnotes is here.  It's much better
    than reading the Newspaper or even Videotext, because you get to help
    create it, and it's ALWAYS live.

>    It might be a decent topic in the Notes SIG conference or some other
>    conference.

	I've never had any luck writing to (or lately even accessing) this
    conference.  I think they want to open it up again eventually with the
    write protection turned off, but I think it will be used for Notes SIG
    issues in a more formal atmosphere than is typical - although I'm only
    guessing here.

>    It's difficult to come up with a solid number but I suspect that
>    there are several times more 'reading' noters than 'writing' noters.
>    Analytics have a real fear of EVER making a misteak and tend to
>    write less than fools like us.

	I'd be interested to see these figures as well, but I think there
    be more responses if more people knew about (and used) the Vaxnotes
    facility.  Perhaps if it had the same sort of fanfare that "LIVE-WIRE"
    did when it came out - with a terminal in every lobby or hallway tuned
    into it as well as posters and training sessions etc.  BTW, I finally
    saw the first Vaxnotes marketing publication the other day:

	VAX Notes
	------------------------------------------------------------------------
	How to Beat the High Cost of Meetings
	
	...

	VAX Notes Lets You Attend Meetings Without Leaving Your Desk

	...

	VAX Notes Can Help You Improve Both the Quality and Productivity
	of Meetings

	...

	VAX Notes Makes It Easy to Track, Read, or Write to Conferences
	------------------------------------------------------------------------

	By this description, I suppose the "Track"-ers would represent the
    silent Noters you mentioned.  Noting sure changes the whole definition of
    a meeting though.  I haven't yet had the opportunity of either moderating
    or participating in a notefile which I considered to be an actual "meeting"
    (that I know of at least), but I hope to soon!

						-DAV0    

    RE: all the above...
    
    All of this is great. But there's more than one set of issues here
    in terms of studying and writing on the impact of VAXNotes.       
    
    The impact falls into a number of separate categories:
    
    1. The users' reports of the impact of VAXNotes on them (us) in
    terms of:
    		. Their feelings about the world and their ability
    			to impact it. (User World Perception)
    		. Their feelings about what they have gained 
    			knowlege
    			friends
    			contacts
    		  from or added to VAXNotes.
    
    2. The system wide impact of a phenomenon like VAXNotes.
    
    Look at the Interstate Road System for a parallel to what I'm writing
    about.
    
    The Interstate Road System was established by President Eisenhower
    and authorized by Congress, in the '50's, to provide a reliable,
    redundant platform for truck transportation of strategic materials,
    in large part, for use in the event of another war.
    
    Users of that system had their perceptions of community changed
    -- so much more was accessible within a day's drive.
    
    Users also had a direct benefit from it, outside of their perceptual
    change -- transportation was quicker, enabling them, for example,
    to take jobs further away from their homes ... without disrupting
    their home life.
    
    Those are two benefits of the interstate system from the user's
    perspective.
    
    From a systems perspective, the interstate system allowed for rapid
    economic development. Land values around the system rose. Residential
    and commercial land development skyrocketed. New usage patterns
    for the automobile -- and new consumption patterns -- emerged.
    
    And, of course, the initial strategic objective, justified or not,
    was accomplished.
    
    Similarly, VAXNotes plus worldwide networking, can have ... and
    is having a similar effect. On individual perceptions? Certainly.
    Look at the responses to date. On other functional areas? Yes, but
    the data hasn't been properly collected (yet...I'm cogitating on
    this problem now). And the systems impact? We have yet to see the
    full impact...
    
    This, I agree, is a phenomenal product, with wideranging impacts.
    I'm cogitating on HOW we can illustrate its systemic social and
    knowledge related impact, not only inside the company but across
    our society.
    
    Want to help? ...JAWS::AUSTIN
    
    (And, of course, for those willing to read it, it will be here,
    somewhere in VAXNotes... count on it!)

       RE: .5
    
         Yes, I was referring to Louise and Mark (the Compuserve
       couple who got married on the Net.)  I did think it was
       interesting that the bride made a comment about the Net
       having had the effect of opening up communication for
       her deaf husband (I didn't save the article so I don't
       have the exact quote.)
    
         In a recent NOTE on one of the conferences (don't recall
       which one at the moment) there was much made about people
       using NOTES who were hiding from life (and felt it was
       easier to face "talking" over a terminal.)  This was the
       sort of person who worked 80 hours a week and let vacation
       hours pile up, etc...
    
         I hid UNDER my terminal for days after I read that (cuz
       I'm in the 4th week of a 5 week stint of 70-80 hour weeks
       due to a special rigorous training program I'm in) and my
       paystub says I have 156.36 vacation hours saved up as of
       this week.  (Uh oh ...)
    
         But you can ask all the people on my floor who hide when
       they see me coming (I can talk a blue streak!)  And my
       training program is going to lead me to a Technical Pro-
       ficiency Review Board that will, hopefully, be bowled over
       when they see me next March!  My major is Cluster Hardware
       and my minor is the VAX 8800 processor!  (And I'm so excited
       about it that I may not need a plane to get to Bedford when
       I go in August!)
    
         Discovering NOTES several weeks ago just added to the general
       excitement and the pride I feel about Digital (and did also
       give *me, too* a feeling of belonging to a community!)  I've
       already made a few friends by *mail* and I can't wait to see
       what happens in the next few months!  I think all this is
       *wonderful* !!
    
       Still_crazy_about_Digital_after_almost_5_years  Suzanne...
         (and about to take a 2 week vacation to use up     :-)  :-)
          a bunch of those stored-up vacation hours!)

    

    The Salem NH plant where LSTARK lives was off the net over the
    week end because of a power shutdown. If any one tried and failed
    to get me please try again.
    
    I will consider a notes conference but LSTARK is a little small
    to host one. IN the mean time, please feel free to send mail.
    Especially if you are not a Notes writer.
    
    		Alfred

    This should be an interesting publication.  I have a couple of
    comments.
    
    If I interpreted your original request correctly, you're looking for
    information on how the Network has impacted us, not just how NOTES has 
    impacted us.  Many of the replies were stressing the impact of NOTES.
    
    Also, I suggest you try to establish and publish the function of
    the people who reply.  It would be very helpful to put the responses in
    perspective.  For instance, if 120 people replied and 80 of them were
    in technical functions, 20 were administrative, etc.  that may be important
    information.  
    
    I suspect that if your primary call for participation is thru notes,
    that you will get most of your replies from Engineers, or at least
    technical people.

    You are right, Jim. I mean more then just Notes. There is much more
    to the net then Notes (There is?? someone asks :-) )
    
    I'm open to suggestions on how to reach people outside of notes.
    
    		Alfred

re: -1,

>    I'm open to suggestions on how to reach people outside of notes.

	Reach people outside of notes...hmmm...well, you could always send one
    of the famous DEC-Mail memos with To: lists about a half mile long.  These
    To: lists are so important, that they include the complete nodenames of
    everyone on the receiving end at least once (the more times you appear in
    the To: list, the more bosses you have).

	Let's see, DEC employs close to 80,000 people (it's in the eighties
    isn't it?), so multiply 80,000 times 80,000 times an average of 15 char-
    acters of text per nodename = 96,000,000,000 characters for the To: lists
    alone, not to mention the text, say 3,000 (roughly 50 lines of text)
    characters times 80,000 = 240,000,000 totals 96,240,000,000 characters
    stored in sending a DEC-Mail sent to everyone in the corporation.  This
    is, of course, a conservative estimate because some nodenames appear more
    than once in the To: lists.

	Ok, so the network's computers can handle this much storage long enough
    to recover once irate readers (frustrated trying to Press-Return their
    way through the To: list) finally give-up and delete the whole message,
    then you get to try to handle all of the potentially redundant mail
    responses you receive from the venture.  Much the same as if you used
    an announcement on videotext (or even a hall-way bulletin board).  Let's
    be conservative here, and say that you get only a 10% response rate:
    10% of 80,000 = 8,000 times an average of 3,000 characters again =
    24,000,000 characters on your own system to sort through.

	Sending the mail to VAX-Mail users only, you'd have to deal with a
    similarly long distribution list as well as nodes being down and people
    being by-passed.  Of course, most employees probably don't have a VAX
    account, so this would totally by-pass them altogether.  But then they
    aren't important anyway - they don't use the network - right?  Anyway,
    the figure would probably be alot less than than the above figures
    (for storage space), but it would still tie-up the network during
    transmission as well as result in massive redundancy of content as well
    as an unenviable editing job.

	Or, you could start a notesfile.  Take the original 3,000 characters
    and watch what happens...maybe it'll become one of the most popular
    discussions on the Net, and maybe not so hot, but either way, it would
    save company resources and display the evolving quality which Vaxnotes
    captures.

						-DAV0
	
    p.s.  You could really save resources by using the VAX-Phone and using
	print-screen on interesting replies, but then try retyping all that
	text in one lifetime!

    DIS (in VR, I think) has conducted some PAPER SURVEYS of electronic
    mail users. If you find out what they've done and believe you can
    help them learn more while getting something out of it for your
    own interests, they might work with you to get you the names of
    the 50 (??) DECMail node managers, each of whom could send out a
    brief note to all their subscribers from you...

    For the last year, I have been doing research on computer networks
    as a function of the historical forces which have shaped the
    individual, organizations and Information Technology during this
    century. I'm delighted to have collaborated on this work with a
    noted Professor of Organizational Behavior. 
    
    The research is 90% complete now and will appear as an executive-level
    presentation to be given to our customers. Alfred, i would be glad
    ideas with you and others who are interested in the topic. I'm really
    excited about the results; they make DEC look very good against
    IBM and Vaxnotes is a major part.  

    

    Being new to Vaxnotes, I forgot to add how I can be reached. My
    name is Pete DeLisi and I'm part of the Western Area salesforce
    and can be reached via Decmail @WRO. Phone is DTN 521-2406, or
    408/982-2406.