Conference 7.286::digital

    This is the second time in a very short period that the childish
    actions some person or persons has terrorized the Noting community.
    
    These are acts of terror even if not intended to be.  These acts
    cause most of us to be worried about what we say in conferences.
   
    We as a community must positive steps to insure that we don't loose
    trust in ourselves and Digital.  As pointed out in several notes
    in this conference many of us view Noting as a benefit of working
    at Digital.  Noting provides a powerful way for those of us who
    believe in the Digital way to work together to make Digital an even
    better place.
    
    Digital was founded with the basis of TRUST in its employees.  This
    is one of the major reasons that we all have far more freedom than
    is available in most organizations.
    
    The Noters organization suggested seems like a good start.  I would
    hope that, at a minimum, those of us willing to act as responsible
    citizens of Digital can provide an example for those who seem to
    fail to understand the concept.
    
    Let's work TOGETHER and stay calm,
    
    Don

    What is going on within Digital???????????????????  The Digital
    I've known and loved for eight years was almost like a family. 
    I've called people all over the U.S. asking for help, and had them
    literally drop what they were doing to help me out of trouble. 
    Digital employees looked out for each other.  We felt a special
    camaraderie even if we met by chance for the first time in a strange
    place.
    
    Is this the "New DEC"?  Is this what I have to look forward to in
    this company?  Do I really have to worry about putting a note in
    a NOTES file for fear it will be extracted and used in some bizarre
    way against me by another employee?  Do I really have to be a victim
    of censorship of our Notes files by our own management?
    
    I love this company very much.  But what I'm seeing (reading) right
    now is something very ugly, something I'm ashamed of.  Maybe I have
    Ken and his company on too high a pedestal.  Maybe I don't.
    
    I'm still trying to keep a positive attitude and keep hoping that
    this will all blow over, that those at fault will be dealt with,
    and that the innocent NOTES community will not be made to suffer
    for the wrongs of one or two people.  I guess only time will tell...

Thanks, Simon.  I respect your rights as moderator.  You may have protected
someone from legal action.  Seems like caution is the name of the game these
days. 

I have deleted my now hidden note.  Can't imagine the grounds for a libel suit 
but with the outright PARANOIA concerning notes, why even continue to note?

I think we're losing something really special, because of fears (perhaps 
unfounded) and speculation.

There is something really insane going on now, and I wish it would end.  Can it 
be that we no longer have an environment in which we can express our opinions, 
feelings, thoughts, concerns without fear of reprisal from some "source" 
somewhere?  Sounds like what was a good communications medium is being poisoned 
and no one has an antidote.

I do have one question regarding the following lament.

>    Sadly, I can no longer assume that what's written in innocence won't
>    be used against somebody.  

Has such an occurrence actually happened?

Steve

    re: .12
    
    > Has such an occurrence actually happened?
    
    Isn't that what this note was about?
    
    	- Jerry

    Boy, go away for a day and all hell breaks loose!
    
    Since the base note has been hidden, could someone please summarize
    the problem the started all of this? Please DO NOT mention any names,
    otherwise your response may also be removed to prevent libel.
    
    Thanks,
    Paul.

    I don't think it is reasonable to publish even a summary of the
    activity. Suffice it to say that the contents of a note was extracted
    by someone and sent outside the company.
    
    I have marked this note /NOWRITE because the specifics should not
    be discussed in a public forum. Please respect the wishes of the
    individuals and don't reopen the specific discussion elsewhere.

    The writer of the topic note asked that this whole topic be deleted.
    I understand his reasons for the request, and in retrospect he would
    have been better off not writing the note that started this discussion.
    However, I feel that there is a matter of principle which should
    not be ignored, and so I will repost edited versions of some of
    the preceding notes.  References to the events which led to this
    topic will be masked, for the protection of the involved party.
    
    In reply .11 I referred to the possibility of libel suits.  Now
    that I know a bit more about the background events, I consider that
    a remote possibility.  However, other kinds of damage have been
    done, and to prevent further damage, please don't discuss those
    events if you have read of them here or elsewhere.

  --Simon
    

Note 113.0                                           41 lines   2-MAY-1986 14:36
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    All of you know enough about the SEXCETERA issue. A bastard extracted
    a note from the file and went to see its author to make trouble.
    (I don't know the details and I don't care).
    
    Now, another bastard (the same?) extracted the following note...
    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[controversial note deleted]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ...and went to see [organization outside Digital] with it.
    [explanatory remark deleted]
    
    
    Three comments on this:
    
    1. It's bastards time, now, folks, and I am really sad to see this
    happening. 
    
    2. I have asked that the bastard be prosecuted for having disclosed
    Digital Internal Use Only information to outside the Company without
    authorization.
    
    3. Noting in over for me, now. Bye-bye everyone.
    No more trust = no more business with notes.
    
    [signature]

Note 113.3                                           13 lines   2-MAY-1986 18:56
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    re .1 - right,  ...   has a very valid reason to consult with someone
    familar with local customs.

    But the aptly-tagged "bastard" has no excuse, and I for one hope that
    *he* *does* get in trouble for it.  If  ...   pushes the complaint (as
    he should) he should be able to get some sort of satisfaction. 
    
    One request, please  ...  , identify this individual so those of
    us who might otherwise unknowingly deal with him carelessly may
    be warned.  But only if you are certain of his identity (would it
    stand up in court, it might have to since unfounded accusations
    are actionable as slander).
    

Note 113.4                                           27 lines   2-MAY-1986 20:29
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        Stop picking on the "bastards". Bastard is often used as a
        term of endearment in Australia.
        
        q
        

Note 113.5                                           12 lines   2-MAY-1986 21:21
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     re .4:
          
     ...                                              Regardless of the
     reasons before, the reason this time is that someone has apparently
     taken a conference note and 'reported' it to an agency outside of DEC.
     If this is true, it is an outrage, and everyone should be concerned.
     If this is true, then the person who violated the confidence of the
     e-net community should either be prevented from having access to the
     e-net, or the e-net community should be made aware of his or her
     identity.
     
     --Mr Topaz

Note 113.8                                           10 lines   3-MAY-1986 00:41
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    This whining and overreaction is getting rather dull. If you have
    laundry you want to keep private, don't air it in public. The bunker
    mentality I see here bothers me more than the loss of SEXCETERA,
    which from the couple of times I looked at it was little more than a
    venue for puerile exhibitionism (and dull at that). No loss. ...
    
    
                                  I'm a LOT more bothered by the Sales
    Update article (Company Confidential) which somebody leaked to a
    customer and which was published in INFOVAX on the ARPAnet, and I've
    heard not word one about that. 

Note 113.9                                           24 lines   3-MAY-1986 01:22
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RE:  -1

It is not paranoia that you think you sense.  It is a sense of disappointment 
and betrayal by sincere DIGITAL employees who BELIEVE in our corporate 
philosophy that we should always do the RIGHT thing.

And when some irresponsible people abuse Notes in the manner that has been 
reported here and in 111.*, they are hurting the DIGITAL community as a whole.

Whether or not  ...   is overreacting is irrelevant (heck, he was peeved with 
me over some reply months ago, and so what?  That's OK).  The REAL problem is 
that it is reasonable for DIGITAL employees to expect to be treated (and 
likewise to treat their peers) with respect.  And abusing Notes by harassing 
another employee ...                              is well nigh inexcusable.

As for how to turn the situation around, I have no idea.  Perhaps a Noters 
society is a start; I don't know.  But it won't take too many additional 
"incidents" such as these to undo a lot of good will and positive community 
feelings within the extended DIGITAL network.  And I would encourage anyone who 
is contemplating some questionable action regarding Notes (or Mail, or DTNs, 
etc.) to do a little soul searching and ponder the damage that his or her 
actions can do.  It's really not worth it.  And we are all at their mercy.  If 
we lose our sense of communality and "DEC-culture", we are all losers.  And our 
families.  

Note 113.10                                          10 lines   3-MAY-1986 02:40
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    re:.8
    
    Whether  ...   is "right" or "wrong" ...
    is irrelevant. Whether SEXCETERA was nothing but the ramblings of
    children snickering as they utter "dirty words" is irrelevant.
    
    What is being discussed here is Principle. Ethics. "Do unto others
    as you would have them do unto you." It's not frivolous whining.
    
    --- jerry

Note 113.14                                          12 lines   4-MAY-1986 02:27
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     You could  always  turn  the  individual  in to Personnel and get an 
     attorney to prosecute  him  for  libel  (defamation  of  character).  
     However, with the mind-set  currently  in DEC Personnel and Security 
     (see my response to 111.)  it would probably mean the demise of this 
     NOTESfile too. [Lately, we have been shooting the messenger. :-(]
     
     On the other hand, such action  would  most certainly guarantee that 
     disciplinary action is taken against the individual involved.

Note 113.15                                          14 lines   4-MAY-1986 02:35
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    Since my root note is now hidden, I repost my personal message here:
    Don't use notes for messages to me, I give up with this as it becomes
    dangerous. As I don't like danger, I prefer to stop participating,
    whatever Peter Q. could think :-) [note to the potential bastard:
    :-) is a smiley face. see the notes users guide for more on smiling
    faces and etiquette, and see your lawyer, you will need him/her,
    believe me]
    
    re: Len I have asked Corporate Security to find the name of
    the "person" and prosecute him/her for having disclosed Digital
    Internal Use Only information outside the Company.
    
    [signature]
    (please send mail. I will no longer read this file)

In the interest of discussing the general issue of "internal
use only" policy for notes under a more informative title
(and without the foregoing confusion of hidden/deleted/edited
replies) I have put my views on the matter in #116.

    
    dir
    read