Conference heron::euro_swas_ai

    
    
    I understand that the current version of KBMS does not have either a 
    call-in or a call-out facility.  This may not support our integration 
    messages as strongly as we would like.
    
    Elise.

    Here's a little info on KBMS and LASER. I have asked Jon Lehto (KBMS
    technical evaluator) to reply to this note with some more information.
    
    Pat
    
Subj:	Internal use of AICORP's KBMS and Bell Atlantic Knowledge Systems Laser.


Hi Ruedi,

KBMS currently runs on VAX/VMS.

Laser runs on VAX/VMS, VAX/ULTRIX, and RISC/ULTRIX. 


We do not have any specific agreements with these vendors for internal user 
discounts.  Laser costs $4,000 (however, for the rest of this calendar year they 
are running a $1,000 promotional.  We are meeting with them on September 11th 
and we can see if the promotional can be extended to internal Digital users) for 
a workstation license.  I do not have their detailed price list with runtimes, 
etc.  I will be getting this at the Sept. 11th meeting.

KBMS is $7,500 for a VAXstation license with an optional renewal fee of $1,500.  
Each DBMS interface costs an additional $2,000 with an optional renewal fee of 
$400.  Runtime versions (including DBMSinterfaces) are $750 per copy.

Both third parties are getting ready for commercial ship in September; non-Beta 
documentation should be available at that time.  The tech evals are also being 
completed in Sept. Jon Lehto (DTN 291-8093; GUESS::)is doing KBMS and Avinash 
Patil (DTN 291-8197; GUESS::) will be doing Laser.  They will be good internal 
sources of product information as you evaluate these options.

  

Regards,

Pat 

>    what have you heard about KBMS ?  Do you feel it
>    
>   is a good tool to include in the AI Training Program ... instead of 
>    
>   EPITOOL ?    Any opinions will be helpful.  Thanks.
    		 ============================  (my underlining)

Malcolm,

I don't get it.  As far as I know (There have been no reports on what exactly 
happened) EPITOOL wasn't taught at the AI Trg prog, in favour of OPS5 (!).

* We know Epitool is good, solid, state-of-the-art software with all the 
  features necessary to teach AI concepts plus integration with other 
  applications.

* We know also that the EPITOOL course is good (AI Tec Forum V?)
  and I personally know that they were well on the way to producing an excellent
  prototyping course. 

* We know that EPITOOL is (or is supposed to be) a DEC cooperative-marketing 
  -product.


	So why are you so anxious to "replace" it ?  Is there something we're
	not being told ?


yours,

pete.

    
    Hi Pete ... first, lets get the facts straight:
    
    EPITOOL and an EPITOOL Prototyping Course WERE offerd in the Training
    Program here in Valbonne in the Spring.  Both courses were developed
    and delivered by Malin Goodwin.  I don't know who started this rumor
    about OPS-5 being the only offering.  
    
    I have not made a decision to replace EPITOOL, and I agree that it is
    a solid tool.  Additionally, the course is already developed!
    
    I am considering KBMS because we want the training program to be 
    pro-active and "current" in its offerings, although it is not a
    goal to concentrate on teaching individual tools.  Also, Marketing
    people have suggested that EPITOOL not be offered because of a
    deteriorating relationship with EPITEC.
    
    I will make the decision shortly on which tool will be offered as the
    option to OPS-5.  EPITOOL may very well be the choice because it went
    over quite well LAST TIME and because a KBMS course may not be
    available in time for January.
    
    Now ... who is the RASCAL that started that nasty rumor ? !!
    
                                                                

Last months I've been contacted by several companies that are introducing
AI-tools on VMS. Most noticably System Generation with their ADS (Aion
Development System) who gave me a one-day introduction in Antwerp and
within a few weeks I'm expecting an invitation by AICorp to attend a
3-day intro to KBMS (for free!). AICorp recently founded a Dutch plant
with people mainly "recruted" from Cullinet.

I was very impressed with ADS (running on a 4Mb 80386) and I must admit
that, when these tools will run on VMS, they really do compete very well
with Epitool. Issues that will be important for choosing a tool:
	integration with the VMS-environment (call-in/out, Rdb)
	DECwindows/Motif as a user-interface (development AND delivery)
	when will Epitool generate C and/or Ada for delivery?
	availability on our RISC-platform (planned for ADS, KBMS, Epitool?)

								Hans.

    Hi Malcolm, ... I appreciate the straight reply.

    I must apologise for getting to it so late.  I don't seem to find time
    for notes these days...

    223.4> I don't know who started this rumor about OPS-5 being the only
    223.4> offering.  

    It is very difficult to prevent malicious rumours  from starting,
    whatever the company.  However they can not live very long if the facts
    are made readily available.  I scanned this notesfile for a report on
    the training program, what was finally offered, by whom, and how it all
    went, but didn't find anything.  Could you scotch this and a few other
    rumours by putting such a note together, or at least a pointer to the
    information?

    223.4> Also, Marketing
    223.4> people have suggested that EPITOOL not be offered because of a
    223.4> deteriorating relationship with EPITEC.

    This appears to be the crux of the matter, and believe me, there are
    enough rumours (probably unworthy of mention) around this topic too. 
    Can you elaborate and set the record straight here as well please ?

    Thanks in advance.  It will be good to get these topics aired.  I'm not
    sure how visible this discussion is down here in the bowels of an old
    note.  Perhaps we should start a new topic?

    best regards
    pete. 
    

                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     09-Sep-1990 03:22am CET
                                        From:     LEHTO
                                                  LEHTO@GUESS@HERON@MRGATE@HUGHI
                                        Dept:      
                                        Tel No:    

TO:  ROACH@A1NSTC


Subject: RE: KBMS evaluation

Hi Pat. 

At this point, the VAX/VMS based version of AI Corp's KBMS product does
not allow linking with their software. Some refer to this as "call-in"
functionality. While I don't mean to imply a schedule or commitment on 
behalf of AI Corp. I can state that in face-to-face conversation with
AI Corp management and engineering, this functionality is planned and in
development. It exists in their PC based implementation. 

A strength of AI Corp's product is rule development via "natural language"
(English) parsing. One enters something like "Find me someone named Jones"
for example, and it produces a rule to that effect which may be refined if
needed depending on specificity, etc.

I won't respond to the note, so feel free to cut and paste this information
as you feel fit. I wish to limit myself to the evaluation, only.

Thank you.
    

    Just found out that KBMS does not support call-out at the present time
    either. However, unofficially, it is expected after Christmas. 
    
    BEWARE OF UNOFFICIAL! IT MIGHT TURN INTO A RUMOR!
    
    
    	PAT

RE : <<< Note 223.5 by ACTRIX::dehartog "moduladaplisprologopsimulalgol" >>>

 >>>>	when will Epitool generate C and/or Ada for delivery?

Hello Hans,

	Another fact/rumor; when we had the EPITEC people down here in May of
this year, they told us that they planned to have a version of EPI-TOOL which
would generate ADA code for the run-time application (C was not then planned)
by december of this year. This was not what we had understood from Pascal
Coutier who's information was that EPI-TOOL itself would be ported from LISP
to C by the summer of this year. The ADA generation was apparently a 
commitment they had made to the swedish military. 

Since then we have had no further info - has anybody else?

Joe.

re .7
>> I can state that in face-to-face conversation with
>> AI Corp management and engineering,

Haven't we heard that one before with some other company no longer on
our (marketing's) list of most favored tools.  I seem to recall something
like EPItek or so :-)

ruedi (who_just_picked_OPS_over_EPItool_for_his_project)